Illegal Factions Rules

[vblury]

I think there needs to be more rules put in place to be an official illegal faction, maybe a rule where you can only be “allianced” or “neutral” with none or one other illegal faction, let’s face it the zetas have been on top forever and I would love to see someone contest the thrown but that will never happen everyone’s to scared to get clapped so they get a truce with them and sit behind them. This has made the rp stale for gangs as the top 3 illegal factions are all cool with each other and have over 50 members each, no one really likes to contest these guys either, therefor the rp goes south with all they have to do is kill cops all I’ve seen from wca since I’ve got back on the server this week is them just killing all the cops. I think there needs to be more rules in place to stop the powerhouse of the top 3 and make gang rp fun again. A few months ago was some of the best gang rp I’ve witnessed between the rooks,Russians, zetas., and wanted. Now they’re all gone and I feel like it’s at the biggest amount of bs ever with how much power these gangs have now I’ve you think about it they’re basically one big gang with about 150 members, the only other illegal faction is the rooks but I haven’t even seen them in forever. Please consider adding rules because at this point in the gang rp it is just stale and boring, I can’t be motivated to join any gang except for triads,wca,or zetas without expecting to be shit on all day. I know many other players probably feel this same way and it’s kinda getting old tbh. Thanks

[CaesarSeizure]

for gangs to fight, they need to have something to fight over.

What do you expect would happen with such a rule as you are suggesting? Do you think that it should be OOC enforced that gangs should immediately take hostile action the moment they see another gang? Gangs might be enemies, but they have nothing to fight for, so why fight?

[Aldari]

I don't think we'll ever be introducing rules that dictate the relationships gangs can make. Ultimately gang RP is an RP based on relationships and artificially limiting that restricts criminal RP in a way that is not necessary. 

The Zetas remain 'on top' (though I am not sure what that means, precisely) and have done for a long time, because they've managed to position themselves regularly into advantageous relationships with other gangs. There is no reason other gangs cannot do this and they themselves would be able to 'topple' the Zeta position.

In short, the Zeta dominance is an IC dominance and I don't think it's fair to impose restrictions on them for being IC'ly too good at what they do, especially when other gangs are perfectly capable of becoming the dominant gang. in fact, because criminal RP is ultimately about relationships I think imposing such restrictions would make it far harder for any other gangs to possible form a large enough alliance to ever fight off larger and more powerful gangs, so I think it'd have the opposite effect of what is intended. 

[justpositivity]

You literally only said IC issues/things. not a problem at all OOCly, several gangs have fought against the council, for example, vory, rooks wanted and several other gangs.

[Striax]

Just a friendly bump for the admins views here....

[Sten_Lohk]

Should add turfs back so gangs can fight over something.

[MrUntouchable215]

Just now seeing this and I think there's some things that need to be said without limitations oocly or icly.

So here's the basis of it. Los Zetas was created in a time where the number of big gangs were overwhelming. PD was a smaller faction and everyone was their own boss to some extent, it was mostly everyone fighting everyone for one reason or another. Everything we have done so far has had an agenda and this remains true today and if you look through our faction thread from page 1 and up, you'll see the progress and our struggles leading up to this point, since we mostly only post when there's a new step. The Council ultimately waged war on PD with the specific agenda to balance the food chain overall. As I said before, PD was a smaller faction back then but look at them now. Anyone who exists now from back then can confirm that cops used to get pulled out of their cars and robbed back then. @MarcoD can likely confirm this as he's been witness to such actions multiple times. The goal was to make it so when PD approaches a large force or even a singular one, they would call for back up and wouldn't approach situations unrealistically when dealing with large organizations. Jay and I have personally went to PD and had meetings with PD high command in order to discuss both sides actions and how to improve the balance of law enforcement and criminals. We cannot take responsibility for the strength of PD currently because that's borderline arrogant but I would like to think we played some part in making PD what it is today, even if our actions seems chaotic by nature.

The reason I say that is to say this; we have come a long way since then and this notion that we're "on top" is simply us trying to maintain under pressure and constantly improve. If you listen to our radio coms, our call outs rival PD because we train to be this way. We do call out training often with our members, call meetings to discuss tactics and and other important information in order to make sure that our strengths are spread out evenly. We have roles to divide responsibility so the Don doesn't have to shoulder every single bit of pressure as well, this is key.

I also want to point out that our alliances and friendships are determined not by numbers, but by respect. We aligned ourselves with Triads when they were still a smaller force, because when we were facing a tough time, they were there with us. They bled with us, struggled with us and lost shit with us, give me one good reason why we wouldn't push for an alliance? Most of the people we fight side by side with today are people we have extreme history with and have grown to respect each other. Shit, most of Zetas consist of members whom we were previously enemies with and that was true on day 1 of our inception. I never understood the mindset of pushing OOC limitations on things that were built solely from RP and recently, I think I'm starting to understand it.

Some people in this community tend to see RP as forged scenarios or over-spammed /me's and /do's and that in itself is severely incorrect. We play in an environment where the choices we make have an immediate and long term effect similar to RL and that in itself is roleplay. Meeting with another gang and exercising diplomacy, waging wars, garnering a monopoly on businesses and lucrative activities, selling drugs, collecting gang tax are all roleplay. 

There's some people who look at us like bullies but instead of showing love from the rip, they're the first ones to act like Rico from Belly

 

Edited April 25, 2020 by MrUntouchable215

[PickleBean17]

We need to crack down on gangs in general. The amount of times I have seen them report people by abusing the Fear RP and powergaming rules is insane. 

For example: A Zeta who is intending on robbing pulls up on a guy walking down the street. 

Zeta: On your knees! 

*the zeta points the pistol at the man*

*suddenly, in the blink of an eye, the man does a somersault move into cover and then pulls out his gun*

Zeta: Aye what fu-!!!!?!?!?

*the two get into a shootout, the man beats the zeta and injures him*

The Man: That's what you get man. Don't try and rob me.

Zeta: /b what the f*** man! reported! reported! You broke Fear RP! I had you at gunpoint! argghhh im a gang member therefore I have to win in every scenario or else you are cheating! Arrrhghh

*The man gets banned just because he defended himself with his martial arts skill*

If the man were to take longer to react, then yes, he would be breaking the rules. All I am trying to say is there are ways to beat gang members and guns. They don't have to win every scenario and they always abuse the rules to do it. They will use their fancy little report command because they know a moderator will always take their side (especially if they are a higher ranked member in their gang, they most likely have connections with admins, mods, etc.) 

fun fact: this actually happened. not to me. I just found it in the ban appeals section. His somersault was awesome, and he got banned for defending himself and beating the gang member. so sad. 

Saitama C. ////// Los Santos Hero Association

previously: Front Yard Balls + Los Santos Customs

[Nick_Smokerson]

Well i mean there are several ways to solve this, but I'd love to see those big gangs break into smaller gangs, because as you say it's essentially a 150 person gang, and either you are allied with them or you get killed and shit on all day long. I've even heard of situations where people pay them taxes, but still get robbed and shit on ( lol )
Maybe introducing a Turfs system, or Points system could elevate the gang RP a little. But i also think that script wise there should be more Criminals "Jobs" for criminals, because as we all know, there's not very much to do as criminals except make drugs and sell them.

[MrUntouchable215]

11 hours ago, PickleBean17 said:

We need to crack down on gangs in general. The amount of times I have seen them report people by abusing the Fear RP and powergaming rules is insane. 

For example: A Zeta who is intending on robbing pulls up on a guy walking down the street. 

Zeta: On your knees! 

*the zeta points the pistol at the man*

*suddenly, in the blink of an eye, the man does a somersault move into cover and then pulls out his gun*

Zeta: Aye what fu-!!!!?!?!?

*the two get into a shootout, the man beats the zeta and injures him*

The Man: That's what you get man. Don't try and rob me.

Zeta: /b what the f*** man! reported! reported! You broke Fear RP! I had you at gunpoint! argghhh im a gang member therefore I have to win in every scenario or else you are cheating! Arrrhghh

*The man gets banned just because he defended himself with his martial arts skill*

If the man were to take longer to react, then yes, he would be breaking the rules. All I am trying to say is there are ways to beat gang members and guns. They don't have to win every scenario and they always abuse the rules to do it. They will use their fancy little report command because they know a moderator will always take their side (especially if they are a higher ranked member in their gang, they most likely have connections with admins, mods, etc.) 

fun fact: this actually happened. not to me. I just found it in the ban appeals section. His somersault was awesome, and he got banned for defending himself and beating the gang member. so sad. 

Saitama C. ////// Los Santos Hero Association

previously: Front Yard Balls + Los Santos Customs

Yes, breaking fearRP should be reported at all times, otherwise you'd have a community of people who get into these types of situations and attempting to climb out of them through those means. If you get caught slipping and get robbed, you should be robbed because ultimately, its your fault for being in that situation, let's be honest. When I was new to the server, I went to every gang I could find and introduced myself, dropped off tributes in order to meet with the higherups, alcohol, money, etc. As I'm new to the city, it's my job to check in and make sure my name is known. When I worked at LSC, I gave gang members under the table discounts in order to keep peace at LSC and get on good terms with people, along with opening the doorway to business deals along the way. I've been on this server for two years and I have never been straight up robbed. I've been injured and had my shit taken yes, but not "hands up" and robbed for all my shit and that's because I know how to move. I don't put myself into dangerous situations and when I think the chances of me being robbed is high in a certain area, I keep my gun out at all times.

If i'm pumping gas, I call people there with me. If there's two of us, he pumps and I hide somewhere with my gun out incase someone pulls up with bad intentions, and if I'm put under pressure, I talk myself out of it. The reality is, on this server, you will have a hard time trying to walk anywhere on foot and if that's the case, you have to prepare for that and protect yourself at all times. There doesn't need to be a total relax on rules when it comes to criminals, people just need to follow them. Is it hard to not break rules sometimes as a crim? Of course it's hard, it's really fucking hard, but that's why reports should be handled on a case by case basis. If I see three dudes running at me, masked up and one is pulling his gun, I'm fucking clapping but in that situation, I would likely get DM, but this is me valuing my characters life and protecting myself, I shouldn't get DM for such a thing.

Quote

Well i mean there are several ways to solve this, but I'd love to see those big gangs break into smaller gangs, because as you say it's essentially a 150 person gang, and either you are allied with them or you get killed and shit on all day long. I've even heard of situations where people pay them taxes, but still get robbed and shit on ( lol )
Maybe introducing a Turfs system, or Points system could elevate the gang RP a little. But i also think that script wise there should be more Criminals "Jobs" for criminals, because as we all know, there's not very much to do as criminals except make drugs and sell them.

Bigger gangs broken into smaller gangs? Official factions are capped at 60 members, you want to break that into smaller gangs? Stop. If people want to make an allience, let them. Yes, criminals need more things to do but that isnt the way to go about it.

 

Edited April 26, 2020 by MrUntouchable215

[PickleBean17]

28 minutes ago, MrUntouchable215 said:

Yes, breaking fearRP should be reported at all times, otherwise you'd have a community of people who get into these types of situations and attempting to climb out of them through those means. If you get caught slipping and get robbed, you should be robbed because ultimately, its your fault for being in that situation, let's be honest. When I was new to the server, I went to every gang I could find and introduced myself, dropped off tributes in order to meet with the higherups, alcohol, money, etc. As I'm new to the city, it's my job to check in and make sure my name is known. When I worked at LSC, I gave gang members under the table discounts in order to keep peace at LSC and get on good terms with people, along with opening the doorway to business deals along the way. I've been on this server for two years and I have never been straight up robbed. I've been injured and had my shit taken yes, but not "hands up" and robbed for all my shit and that's because I know how to move. I don't put myself into dangerous situations and when I think the chances of me being robbed is high in a certain area, I keep my gun out at all times.

If i'm pumping gas, I call people there with me. If there's two of us, he pumps and I hide somewhere with my gun out incase someone pulls up with bad intentions, and if I'm put under pressure, I talk myself out of it. The reality is, on this server, you will have a hard time trying to walk anywhere on foot and if that's the case, you have to prepare for that and protect yourself at all times. There doesn't need to be a total relax on rules when it comes to criminals, people just need to follow them. Is it hard to not break rules sometimes as a crim? Of course it's hard, it's really fucking hard, but that's why reports should be handled on a case by case basis. If I see three dudes running at me, masked up and one is pulling his gun, I'm fucking clapping but in that situation, I would likely get DM, but this is me valuing my characters life and protecting myself, I shouldn't get DM for such a thing.

Bigger gangs broken into smaller gangs? Official factions are capped at 60 members, you want to break that into smaller gangs? Stop. If people want to make an allience, let them. Yes, criminals need more things to do but that isnt the way to go about it.

 

I am surprised you got on good terms with all of the gangs just by visiting and giving them discounts. They are large and you would think most of them would not recognize you. Gangs are more unorganized than you think. They all look good on forums with their badges and their own pages about their history, but, they are all just ignorant scums that whine if they don't get their way. 

Think about it this way: There are ways to beat them in roleplay scenarios. Yes, I believe that most of the time they should still win if they have you at gunpoint, but they don't know how to lose, which is the problem. I think it would spice up and make the scenarios more colorful and interesting if something different could happen every now and then. Maybe the gangster misses their shot, causing the victim to pull out a gun and win. Or, the victim knows martial arts and quickly dodges the gangster. Something like that. You can't ignore the fact that 100% of the time if the gangster doesn't get to rob you and steal your map etc, they whine and cry and file reports, which turns into a forum war with unnecessary bans.When I was on the server I considered experimenting with this through different gangs by secretly joining multiple gangs at once. Just own all of the outfits and own multiple cars repping different colors. I would never get caught. I am surprised spying like that isn't already a thing.

Saitama C. ////// Los Santos Hero Association

previously: Front Yard Balls + Los Santos Customs

 

Edited April 26, 2020 by PickleBean17

[PickleBean17]

22 hours ago, Sten_Lohk said:

Should add turfs back so gangs can fight over something.

+1

Saitama C. ////// Los Santos Hero Association

previously: Front Yard Balls + Los Santos Customs

 

[CaesarSeizure]

15 hours ago, PickleBean17 said:

I am surprised you got on good terms with all of the gangs just by visiting and giving them discounts. They are large and you would think most of them would not recognize you. Gangs are more unorganized than you think. They all look good on forums with their badges and their own pages about their history, but, they are all just ignorant scums that whine if they don't get their way. 

Think about it this way: There are ways to beat them in roleplay scenarios. Yes, I believe that most of the time they should still win if they have you at gunpoint, but they don't know how to lose, which is the problem. I think it would spice up and make the scenarios more colorful and interesting if something different could happen every now and then. Maybe the gangster misses their shot, causing the victim to pull out a gun and win. Or, the victim knows martial arts and quickly dodges the gangster. Something like that. You can't ignore the fact that 100% of the time if the gangster doesn't get to rob you and steal your map etc, they whine and cry and file reports, which turns into a forum war with unnecessary bans.When I was on the server I considered experimenting with this through different gangs by secretly joining multiple gangs at once. Just own all of the outfits and own multiple cars repping different colors. I would never get caught. I am surprised spying like that isn't already a thing.

boy oh boy, i wonder why you are having a hard time with gangs in game...

So first, the biggest gangs, are very well organized. They work on communication, they work on engaging, they have escape plans. The practice for these situations and in ways are more prepared than LEOs sometimes. I think you are claiming this because you just dont know, i dont even know the full extent, but Untouchable has given some examples in posts of how Zetas prepare and train.

Secondly, i do recommend you be carefully calling people "ignorant scums that whine if they dont get their way" on the forums. This feels like borderline OOC insults, the forums are all OOC, so i recommend you keep your feelings about the gangs IC.

P.S. Go to account settings > signature > and put your signature there, rather than posting it into every comment individually.

[Qiang]

.

[Chunder]

SUGGESTION DENIED

Thank you for your patience while this suggestion was being reviewed/researched.

After reviewing/researching this suggestion, we have decided to deny it for the following reason(s): 

• Most of this has been changed with public robbery, joint freq and gang backup rules as well as the war system.

This decision is final. Unless instructed to, do not post another suggestion pertaining to this topic. You will still be able to submit other suggestions on the forums.

Regards,

Chunder