Equal AP amounts

[Jimmy Lynnch]

LEO's and criminals should have equal AP amounts. Every single cop even cadets have access to 100 AP at least. For criminals only 2 gangs can import 100 APs, Furthermore criminals have to pay 22k minimum now for these 100 APS. This is not even mentioning the fact cops can get up to 175 APS. Cops in fights have the higher numbers alongside the increased AP amounts that are not obtainable for criminals. Oh and they also have infinite amounts in their FL or should I say "under the seat". 100 AP should be reserved for those in special departments only such as METRO which would make sense RPly.

[Eliza]

I don’t think the AP is that much of an issue, you’re not supposed to win against cops by design and they are meant to have the better gear. There’s ways to win fights against them by using coordination and simply choosing your fights to take.

 I’ve seen gangs wipe kitted out SED and METRO when they used to have 200AP.

[Jimmy Lynnch]

3 hours ago, Eliza said:

I don’t think the AP is that much of an issue, you’re not supposed to win against cops by design and they are meant to have the better gear. There’s ways to win fights against them by using coordination and simply choosing your fights to take.

 I’ve seen gangs wipe kitted out SED and METRO when they used to have 200AP.

That was back when MK2 weapons were a thing and were much better then our current MK1 weapons with reduced damage. Furthermore, out of those said players how many still play this server? I think cop AP should be adjusted to match our current firepower as criminals.

[Requiem]

Criminals have access to the same level of AP that police do, as well as the same weapons. It can of course be more difficult for criminals to get access to some weapons and armor, but police also have their restrictions, such as only specialized divisions having access to higher tiers of armor and weapons. Police also have restrictions on when they can and cannot use these weapons and how they use them. 

[Jimmy Lynnch]

43 minutes ago, Requiem said:

Criminals have access to the same level of AP that police do, as well as the same weapons. It can of course be more difficult for criminals to get access to some weapons and armor, but police also have their restrictions, such as only specialized divisions having access to higher tiers of armor and weapons. Police also have restrictions on when they can and cannot use these weapons and how they use them. 

150 APS were given over the course of one weekend to 3 gangs in the whole city. That was a long time ago and they are now little to none. Last time I checked criminals do not get 175 APs anywhere. As for the weapons argument. Special carbines are unable to be imported. Any kind of sniper  cannot be imported. Special carbines can be found in house robberies but their chance of spawning is below 1 percent. I would even go as far to say the spawn rate of a special carbine is sub 0.5.  It is not just "more difficult" it is not possible or if it is possible it takes an enormous amount of time considering you can now only do 1 house pretty much due to the removal of rolling in house robberies. And you can do a house every 4 hours IRL. lets say you find 1 special carbine in 50 houses. That would mean you have spent minimum 50 hours to get a single gun that cops can just pull out (Cops also get the mk2 version) and thats not even factoring in the risk of being robbed or caught.

[Requiem]

14 minutes ago, Jimmy Lynnch said:

150 APS were given over the course of one weekend to 3 gangs in the whole city. That was a long time ago and they are now little to none. Last time I checked criminals do not get 175 APs anywhere. As for the weapons argument. Special carbines are unable to be imported. Any kind of sniper  cannot be imported. Special carbines can be found in house robberies but their chance of spawning is below 1 percent. I would even go as far to say the spawn rate of a special carbine is sub 0.5.  It is not just "more difficult" it is not possible or if it is possible it takes an enormous amount of time considering you can now only do 1 house pretty much due to the removal of rolling in house robberies. And you can do a house every 4 hours IRL. lets say you find 1 special carbine in 50 houses. That would mean you have spent minimum 50 hours to get a single gun that cops can just pull out (Cops also get the mk2 version) and thats not even factoring in the risk of being robbed or caught.

200 AP was the limited armor given over one weekend to crims that was reverted, not the 150 AP. 150 is still available by special import. Police do not have access to 175 AP. 150 is max for police and only to specialized divisions, not the whole faction. 

As for weapons, I have seen several criminals with sniper rifles. SWAT is the only division within PD that has access to sniper rifles and only a select few within SWAT are certified to use them. Special carbines are actually equal to, if not slightly weaker than other automatic rifles. There are several automatic rifles that are stronger than the special carbine. Nonetheless, I added my clarifying comment that there are some weapons and armor that are difficult for crims to get ahold of, but not impossible. As I also mentioned above, this is counter balanced with the fact that the higher tier weapons and armor for police are limited to a fraction of the department and even those that do have access to them are limited by IC policies and procedures that dictate when and how they are allowed to use those weapons. Criminals have free access to use them however and whenever they wish. 

[CalvinKlein]

just a side note, 200 APs were given, complaints were made probably by LEOs,, they were supposed to "get adjusted to 150" but instead they were given back to FM / removed so no crims had real access to them ever.

[Romeo Knight]

 

5 hours ago, Requiem said:

200 AP was the limited armor given over one weekend to crims that was reverted, not the 150 AP. 150 is still available by special import. Police do not have access to 175 AP. 150 is max for police and only to specialized divisions, not the whole faction. 

bro, special imports are only available to factions Tier 9.... which as of right now, are 0 factions. getting this tier takes factions an awful long amount of time. so yes I agree its a lot harder for crims to get such items.. practically impossible. 

[Demonmit1]

Drug buffs equal out the difference.

fast HP regen, extra HP, extra running speed, and just straight up damage reduction crims have through drug use doesnt count for some reason? crim with 100AP high with a blunt, steroids, meth, heroin, and methadone to nullify the visual affect, with no other downside, vastly outperform  75% of law enforcement with 100AP and a pump, and should at least match METRO/SEB's 150 AP when in active kit due to a code-1 or large scale fight situation.

Why not buy and use AP mods an ammo? all of law enforcements standard weapons are HP rounds or normal ammo, so its less effective against armor, and AP ammo is restricted to METRO/SEB only and has to be requested to use.

Crim can go buy any gun they want and use it whenever they want. use a better gun?

only SEB/METRO have 150AP for active situations. general patrol and investigations have a max of 100AP, and its clearly visible when its on, as its a visible vest. Lots of people dont wear them.

Edited October 2, 2025 by Demonmit1

[YasinByn]

1 hour ago, Demonmit1 said:

Drug buffs equal out the difference.

fast HP regen, extra HP, extra running speed, and just straight up damage reduction crims have through drug use doesnt count for some reason? crim with 100AP high with a blunt, steroids, meth, heroin, and methadone to nullify the visual affect, with no other downside, vastly outperform  75% of law enforcement with 100AP and a pump, and should at least match METRO/SEB's 150 AP when in active kit due to a code-1 or large scale fight situation.

Why not buy and use AP mods an ammo? all of law enforcements standard weapons are HP rounds or normal ammo, so its less effective against armor, and AP ammo is restricted to METRO/SEB only and has to be requested to use.

Crim can go buy any gun they want and use it whenever they want. use a better gun?

only SEB/METRO have 150AP for active situations. general patrol and investigations have a max of 100AP, and its clearly visible when its on, as its a visible vest. Lots of people dont wear them.

Law enforcement can consume drugs as well with an approved minor corruption story

 

[Demonmit1]

11 hours ago, YasinByn said:

Law enforcement can consume drugs as well with an approved minor corruption story

There is 94 members of SD. 1 is currently OOCly allowed to use drugs on duty. Faction Leadership, @Osborn made a very public and direct statement a bit ago about members breaking OOC corruption and using drugs. 13 were found to have used drugs (to be specific, only marijuana) shortly before an active fight. they were punished or removed from the faction due to the OOC corruption. It has and afaik, still is actively moderated and watched for. we're not allowed to do it. people do get punished for it.

Edited October 3, 2025 by Demonmit1

[RJThompson]

for once im on PDs side here, 99% of crims know how to shoot a gun straight and we have all seen @Demonmit1 shoot a AR , some cops mostly dont like shooting or aint good at pvp so having 150 evens out the playing field.  100ap is fine, cops only have 150, and a heroin makes you 40% stronger against bullets so use that and 100ap and you have 140 ap practically + steriod and your rapid when speed boosting or c walking. as much as same ap is cool. dont think it makes a crazy difference. just think they should limit how many can respond to a call but then again crims can have 10+ so kinda hard to monitor and as much as i think cops should win but its a game and everything should be fair, i get its a realistic rp server. but everyone has to have fun, and if one side isnt having fun. making it fair for everyone makes it fun for everyone  

[Clank]

2 hours ago, RJThompson said:

for once im on PDs side here, 99% of crims know how to shoot a gun straight and we have all seen @Demonmit1 shoot a AR , some cops mostly dont like shooting or aint good at pvp so having 150 evens out the playing field.  100ap is fine, cops only have 150, and a heroin makes you 40% stronger against bullets so use that and 100ap and you have 140 ap practically + steriod and your rapid when speed boosting or c walking. as much as same ap is cool. dont think it makes a crazy difference. just think they should limit how many can respond to a call but then again crims can have 10+ so kinda hard to monitor and as much as i think cops should win but its a game and everything should be fair, i get its a realistic rp server. but everyone has to have fun, and if one side isnt having fun. making it fair for everyone makes it fun for everyone  

If its a 40% reduction like you said then criminals have more than 150 armor if you think about it.

A cop shooting a criminal:

Lets say any particular bullet does 15 damage, thats 13.3 shots to kill a suspect with 100 hp and 100 armor with NO drugs so round it up to 14 because of the extra shot you'll need to do to with the .3. We'll just assume no headshots are hit which negate armor already to an extent.

Now if your suspect has 100 hp, 100 armor AND has a 40% reduction with drugs, That brings up the shots to kill to 22.2 using the same gun in the last example.

If you shoot someone with a headshot, that negates armor to extent right? Well guess what that reduction from drugs does not get negated AFAIK. So you're even fine if the cop hits headshots.

______

Now on the other side, a criminal shooting a cop:

If you shoot a cop that has 150 armor, with the same 15 damage/shot from the last examples, that's 16.6 shots to kill rounded up to 17.

If you headshot a cop, that's even more detrimental because no damage reduction is in play and let me tell you, the recent few shootings I've been involved in I can safely say that I've been hit by plenty of headshots even when capo strafing.

Shit I'll gladly trade armor for a legal equivalent of drugs any day.

Edited October 3, 2025 by Clank

[Toxine]

22 minutes ago, Clank said:

If its a 40% reduction like you said then criminals have more than 150 armor if you think about it.

A cop shooting a criminal:

Lets say any particular bullet does 15 damage, thats 13.3 shots to kill a suspect with 100 hp and 100 armor with NO drugs so round it up to 14 because of the extra shot you'll need to do to with the .3. We'll just assume no headshots are hit which negate armor already to an extent.

Now if your suspect has 100 hp, 100 armor AND has a 40% reduction with drugs, That brings up the shots to kill to 22.2 using the same gun in the last example.

If you shoot someone with a headshot, that negates armor to extent right? Well guess what that reduction from drugs does not get negated AFAIK. So you're even fine if the cop hits headshots.

______

Now on the other side, a criminal shooting a cop:

If you shoot a cop that has 150 armor, with the same 15 damage/shot from the last examples, that's 16.6 shots to kill rounded up to 17.

If you headshot a cop, that's even more detrimental because no damage reduction is in play and let me tell you, the recent few shootings I've been involved in I can safely say that I've been hit by plenty of headshots even when capo strafing.

Shit I'll gladly trade armor for a legal equivalent of drugs any day.

Yeah but you dont take into consideration that cops are allowed to JTAC with their mothers and neighbors as well. Any shootout from a 4v2 turns out to be 4vs15 in the matter of 10 seconds.

So is that 40% really that impactful in 90% of the scenes? No it isn't. 
Maybe in a 1v1, 2v2, then yeah, it'd play a role. But cops being able to pager, MK2 for free, unlimited ammo, unlimited AP's from /fl, exempt from backup breach, snipers, gunships, shooting from gunships, snipers, thermal scopes, and god knows what else? All of this isn't enough? You really going to discuss the 40% less damage? 

There's <100 active crims in the city bro..

[Jellay]

19 hours ago, Requiem said:

200 AP was the limited armor given over one weekend to crims that was reverted, not the 150 AP. 150 is still available by special import. Police do not have access to 175 AP. 150 is max for police and only to specialized divisions, not the whole faction. 

As for weapons, I have seen several criminals with sniper rifles. SWAT is the only division within PD that has access to sniper rifles and only a select few within SWAT are certified to use them. Special carbines are actually equal to, if not slightly weaker than other automatic rifles. There are several automatic rifles that are stronger than the special carbine. Nonetheless, I added my clarifying comment that there are some weapons and armor that are difficult for crims to get ahold of, but not impossible. As I also mentioned above, this is counter balanced with the fact that the higher tier weapons and armor for police are limited to a fraction of the department and even those that do have access to them are limited by IC policies and procedures that dictate when and how they are allowed to use those weapons. Criminals have free access to use them however and whenever they wish. 

Just for clarification. We (cartel) don't sell ANY gang 150 AP. 

 

[Demonmit1]

3 hours ago, Toxine said:

You really going to discuss the 40% less damage? 

Yeah? Because that's the topic of this forum post. The rest of what you've said has been discussed to death over and over and over again. The topic is about AP. As far as I know, LEO only has 150 AP for SEB/Metro. Not 175, not 200. And as we were just told, 150/200 so doesn't exist for crim. As been discussed, the superhuman buffs available from consuming drugs makes up for the difference between crim with 100 AP and stimmed up, vs the 150 AP of metro/SEB operators.

[Clank]

4 hours ago, Toxine said:

Yeah but you dont take into consideration that cops are allowed to JTAC with their mothers and neighbors as well. Any shootout from a 4v2 turns out to be 4vs15 in the matter of 10 seconds.

SD and PD handle their own business unless its really necessary. Your goal should not be to wipe the police force. You tend to shoot because you need to help someone out right? As a criminal you get the advantage of deciding WHERE and WHEN to shoot. If you shoot somewhere and one LEO faction feels its absolutely needed to call the other for assistance and then are STILL FIGHTING while the other faction responds from the opposite end of the map then you're doing it wrong.

4 hours ago, Toxine said:

So is that 40% really that impactful in 90% of the scenes? No it isn't. 
Maybe in a 1v1, 2v2, then yeah, it'd play a role.

Again, 90% of the time you shouldn't need to be fighting more than a handful of cops to begin with?

4 hours ago, Toxine said:

But cops being able to pager, MK2 for free, unlimited ammo, unlimited AP's from /fl, exempt from backup breach, snipers, gunships, shooting from gunships, snipers, thermal scopes, and god knows what else? All of this isn't enough? You really going to discuss the 40% less damage? 

 

 

• MkII weapons are equivalent in damage to their MkI counterparts. Have been for months now.
• Ammo is not unlimited neither is armor. In order to use /fl you have to be at a locker or next to your cruiser. I don't condone the act of grabbing fresh armor or ammo from vehicles in a shootout anyway. 
• Criminal players have access to both, sniper rifles and helicopters. They have been used in the past. Even then, the only sniper I personally would find even moderately useful in a shootout scenario would be the Marksman Rifle and that isn't even the primarily used option by law enforcement factions either.
• Thermal scopes are not as good as you think they are and I don't even think SWAT uses them in shootouts. They were nerfed a very long time ago.

 

All of the equipment you listed here anyway requires more than half a real life year of progress for someone to earn in LEO factions anyway. They can't just swipe a credit card and spawn one in like a niobe now can they?

Before you go on and argue "b-b-but we pay for this stuff". Yeah, you pay for it and you keep it and you use it how YOU want to use it. When someone in an LEO faction stops doing their LEO duties they lose all of it. Someone in an LEO faction can't use it with the freedom you do. You could go to a lab or hit a bank and print money out then buy whatever gun you want and use it however you want. A LEO has rules within their faction on how they can use it and when they can use it. Shit I'll buy Tom Daniels' Nero off him and chase you with it how's that sound? Or swipe for a Niobe or a Banshee GTS?

I'm sorry but in 2025 you have HSW, you have drugs that let you sprint at the speed of light, you have drugs that give you damage reduction, drugs that give you more carry weight, drugs that slow down your lockpick minigame, gun and armor import prices at an all time low. If escaping the police is your problem then you're just doing it wrong.

The only problem you should be having struggles with is bigger criminal groups bullying smaller groups and the forum report mentality between players.

Edited October 3, 2025 by Clank

[Demonmit1]

After spending thousands of hours on this server on both sides of the conflict,as a longtime criminal and now as a LEO, wanted to offer some perspective on the why behind the current system and propose a real, tangible path forward that I think could benefit everyone.

A lot of the discussion has focused on the 100 AP for crims vs. 150 AP for specialized LEO divisions (SEB/METRO). On the surface, that looks like a simple imbalance. However, from a server balance perspective, that 50 AP gap didn't come from nowhere. It exists as a direct, albeit heavy-handed, countermeasure to the single most powerful combat mechanic in the game: the superhuman drug buffs available to criminals.

Let's be direct about it. As it stands, a criminal can consume a cocktail of drugs that provides:

• A flat 40% damage reduction from bullets.

• Active health regeneration.

• An increase to their maximum health pool.

These buffs are so powerful that, as I mentioned before, LEOs have been willing to risk OOC punishment and faction removal just to use them. When you stack these effects on top of 100 AP, a "stimmed up" criminal is already far more durable than a 150 AP officer. The current LEO armor advantage is simply the server's way of trying to keep its elite units from being statistically irrelevant against this chemical warfare.

This has created the unhealthy meta we have now. Criminals feel they must use these drugs to compete, and LEOs rely on a gear advantage to counter them. It's a stalemate that limits tactical diversity.

So, here is a potential grand bargain. This is a path to a more skill-based and balanced server, but it requires addressing both sides of the equation.

The Proposal:

I, and I believe many other LEOs, could fully support adding 150 AP vests for criminal organizations under two strict conditions:

1. They are a true end-game asset. They should be added to the highest-tier import system at an exorbitantly expensive price. They shouldn't be common. They should be the reward for a criminal faction reaching the absolute pinnacle of the server. a strategic asset you save for the most important operations. This makes their acquisition a fair mirror to the time and dedication it takes to become a SWAT operator.

2. (This is the non-negotiable part) The "superhuman" drug buffs must be rebalanced. The 40% damage reduction, specifically, cannot exist in a world with symmetrical armor. The drugs should be reworked to become what they should have been all along: situational, tactical tools with clear negative trade-offs. They should give you a slight, temporary edge in a specific situation (e.g., a short speed boost, faster stamina regen), not turn you into a walking tank, and should have lasting, neg effects for consistent use, long term addiction side effects, etc.

Why This is a Better System for Everyone:

If we make this change, we shift the entire conflict meta away from a gear-check and a drug-check and toward what everyone wants: a skill-check.

• Criminals get a clear, objective-based end-game progression goal.

• LEOs get to engage in fights that are decided by tactics and teamwork, not by whether the other guy pre-popped a god-mode buff.

• The server gets more diverse and compelling roleplay, moving beyond the stale "hit-and-run" or "stim-stack ambush" metas.

This isn't about LEOs "winning" or criminals "winning." It's about creating a balanced and engaging system where the outcome of a fight is determined by the choices you make, not by a pre-existing gear disparity or a chemical arms race.