Private drug labs

[Quietthecutie]

1 hour ago, Flaslak19 said:

from getting the resources to actually cook, to finding a good spot to cook, to selling the drugs and finding buyers. Big risk reward and ton of rp. Just bcs the cook part is not roleplay it doesnt mean it doesnt bring roleplay. And its not printing money. Factions usually buys the drugs and they have to pay. My RV drug lab arc was the most interesting part of my rp ive done on the server. Anyone who says its not roleplay are just plain wrong. Sure those who sit in apartments and are already in factions with monopoly cooking all day ill agree. But that does not apply at all to lonewolfs or duos cooking looking to make abit of money. 

The problem with your suggestion is in the argument you just gave.

There is no way to balance something in a way that dosent make it OP for larger groups, even if its intention is to try to help the little guy.

I sympathise, i do. as someone who has played crim solo or small group for a long time. but until some kind of hitherto unknown mechanic comes into play where small or solos benefit but large orgs cant stack and abuse, i dont see this happening. as a small time/solo crim you have to accept certain activities are out of your remit, such as cooking drugs. and keep yourself to other activities like chopping, petty theft or house robberies which realistically a small group/solo could do without stepping on toes.
 

[Eliza]

Private drug labs were extremely unhealthy for the environment and ecosystem of Eclipse. All they were was essentially a free money generator while somebody sat inside of a property or RV for 13 hours a day doing no interaction with other players while they’re printing off free money. 

There’s plenty of other ways to make money as a criminal, with it being chopping, stores, banks, house robberies, and you can still cook at public labs if drugs are your thing.

You’ve got to understand that isolating yourself for hours on end isn’t healthy at all for a social server.

Edited October 21, 2024 by DontSniffSugar

[PurplePlant]

I imagine you could add features to cooking that make it more risky, maybe the rv explodes or makes a smoke coming out of the RV suggesting it is cooking. I like the idea of the RV having a real purpose for the interior other than a cool driving home.

 

Also, if it is lucrative to do maybe the payment could be lowered for solo cooking and much harder to do. There are options that make it viable and fun for everyone. Stagnant labs are constantly monitored by big groups and make it difficult for new upcoming groups.

Edited October 21, 2024 by PurplePlant

[Ritchie Stones]

On 10/20/2024 at 11:14 PM, Bala said:

The credit conspiracy theory is wild.

I personally thought the public labs were the better choice and still do. It's a multiplayer server, not story mode right, so there should be that element of danger. Not just being able to run through printing money.

Am I content with the implementation of the public labs? Ehhh, they could be better but overall they fit what Eclipse is better than private labs do.

i mean... what got better ? the clappers arent gone, which was open of the goals.
I'm here for almost 4 years I've seen the times before, 
houses gone up 4X but have no use, somehow they keep going up meanwhile everyone is poorer.
it made a bigger gap between new and old players in wealth.
and times of prosperity are over.

i remember everyone buying everything, make deals and connections everywhere,
all of that is gone, entire high end was filled with nice cars, now its really not that great.
 

we went from risky reinvesting king pin dreams to petty little crims picking plants and sit in a lab 
waiting to run at any sign of noise, the only rp interaction that takes place are gunshots. that's not rp that's pvp.
the labs look cool however, and I'm not against it, but there is something missing and it did not get to the goals the server actually wanted to accomplish,

[Toxine]

Yes I totally agree.

There definitely needs to be a rebalance of it though, but private labs need to be implemented as well. Since public labs just fuel the PVP mentality of some people. The solo crim that just wants to make a little money to buy the next cheap car or what not, is required to strap up in order to go to the public lab.

Without even mentioning how rolling labs has become a daily thing, monopolizing labs by bigger gangs. Realistically, you could cook anywhere you wanted to. 
 

This system just benefits larger groups and puts smaller crews/solo crims at a huge disadvantage.

And in my opinion it should be way around, it should be incentivized for smaller groups/solo crims to want to do crim stuff, and not discourage them because “i will get pushed by people rolling 6 deep with AK’s and 100AP”

I don’t see the difference between a private chop and a private lab. Both are a great risk that the players need to take in order to have that benefit at their disposal. They can be robbed, they can be raided by police, and what not.

The server should always (in my opinion) try to incentivize beginners to do stuff, and balance things so bigger groups dont monopolize everything.

If someone wants to create a new gang, it’s kind of hard for them to start working properly (not saying its impossible), because there’s bigger groups that hold 3/4 labs at a time, and there’s very little they can do about it.

My suggestion would be limiting the number of tables available per property (Maybe 3-3-3 or 2-2-2) and increase the prices of the tables drastically. If you want to make drugs, you should be looking at very expensive tools and equipment. Also, can also be added that tables will eventually wear off (durability) so people will have to keep re-buying them.

This adds RP to the server, having people interact with other bigger gangs to import them.

Also, labs can be rebalanced as well, to provide more tables for larger groups, so both parties can be happy.

At the end of the day, removing private tables doesnt really improve RP that much, it just improved people’s PVP mentality. Nobody gors up to a lab to RP. Everyone shows up armed up to their teeth trying to rob people. And the rp is always

/me pats 15 down

/do able?

/do yes

Steals everything, fucks off to the next lab. That’s the whole interaction. And that just discourages people to show up to labs, especially new players that want to learn how to cook.

[Flaslak19]

19 minutes ago, Toxine said:

Yes I totally agree.

There definitely needs to be a rebalance of it though, but private labs need to be implemented as well. Since public labs just fuel the PVP mentality of some people. The solo crim that just wants to make a little money to buy the next cheap car or what not, is required to strap up in order to go to the public lab.

Without even mentioning how rolling labs has become a daily thing, monopolizing labs by bigger gangs. Realistically, you could cook anywhere you wanted to. 
 

This system just benefits larger groups and puts smaller crews/solo crims at a huge disadvantage.

And in my opinion it should be way around, it should be incentivized for smaller groups/solo crims to want to do crim stuff, and not discourage them because “i will get pushed by people rolling 6 deep with AK’s and 100AP”

I don’t see the difference between a private chop and a private lab. Both are a great risk that the players need to take in order to have that benefit at their disposal. They can be robbed, they can be raided by police, and what not.

The server should always (in my opinion) try to incentivize beginners to do stuff, and balance things so bigger groups dont monopolize everything.

If someone wants to create a new gang, it’s kind of hard for them to start working properly (not saying its impossible), because there’s bigger groups that hold 3/4 labs at a time, and there’s very little they can do about it.

My suggestion would be limiting the number of tables available per property (Maybe 3-3-3 or 2-2-2) and increase the prices of the tables drastically. If you want to make drugs, you should be looking at very expensive tools and equipment. Also, can also be added that tables will eventually wear off (durability) so people will have to keep re-buying them.

This adds RP to the server, having people interact with other bigger gangs to import them.

Also, labs can be rebalanced as well, to provide more tables for larger groups, so both parties can be happy.

At the end of the day, removing private tables doesnt really improve RP that much, it just improved people’s PVP mentality. Nobody gors up to a lab to RP. Everyone shows up armed up to their teeth trying to rob people. And the rp is always

/me pats 15 down

/do able?

/do yes

Steals everything, fucks off to the next lab. That’s the whole interaction. And that just discourages people to show up to labs, especially new players that want to learn how to cook.

+1 holy

[OBESE]

2 hours ago, Toxine said:

Yes I totally agree.

There definitely needs to be a rebalance of it though, but private labs need to be implemented as well. Since public labs just fuel the PVP mentality of some people. The solo crim that just wants to make a little money to buy the next cheap car or what not, is required to strap up in order to go to the public lab.

Without even mentioning how rolling labs has become a daily thing, monopolizing labs by bigger gangs. Realistically, you could cook anywhere you wanted to. 
 

This system just benefits larger groups and puts smaller crews/solo crims at a huge disadvantage.

And in my opinion it should be way around, it should be incentivized for smaller groups/solo crims to want to do crim stuff, and not discourage them because “i will get pushed by people rolling 6 deep with AK’s and 100AP”

I don’t see the difference between a private chop and a private lab. Both are a great risk that the players need to take in order to have that benefit at their disposal. They can be robbed, they can be raided by police, and what not.

The server should always (in my opinion) try to incentivize beginners to do stuff, and balance things so bigger groups dont monopolize everything.

If someone wants to create a new gang, it’s kind of hard for them to start working properly (not saying its impossible), because there’s bigger groups that hold 3/4 labs at a time, and there’s very little they can do about it.

My suggestion would be limiting the number of tables available per property (Maybe 3-3-3 or 2-2-2) and increase the prices of the tables drastically. If you want to make drugs, you should be looking at very expensive tools and equipment. Also, can also be added that tables will eventually wear off (durability) so people will have to keep re-buying them.

This adds RP to the server, having people interact with other bigger gangs to import them.

Also, labs can be rebalanced as well, to provide more tables for larger groups, so both parties can be happy.

At the end of the day, removing private tables doesnt really improve RP that much, it just improved people’s PVP mentality. Nobody gors up to a lab to RP. Everyone shows up armed up to their teeth trying to rob people. And the rp is always

/me pats 15 down

/do able?

/do yes

Steals everything, fucks off to the next lab. That’s the whole interaction. And that just discourages people to show up to labs, especially new players that want to learn how to cook.

Could not have said it better!

Those who are claiming that there was no RP with private labs are dead wrong. I had more RP with private labs than without. The people you are talking are the ones that are not here to RP, but play a game and those are the same people that are ruining the whole RP experience to those who want to RP right now. 

Massive part of the crim community on Eclipse are bunchy of self cantered egomaniacs. Quick buck over possible long term relationships is what they choose. Calling someone a "bitch" or worse, with the sole purpose to humiliate the other individual. 

What exactly have the public labs improved? Interactions you say? Maybe interactions to these pvp focused ruleplayers that someone already mentioned. For me as someone who wants to RP, it has increased the levels of paranoia and with every bad experience it does opposite to what this was suppose to increase, because due to them I am not staying around, not to even entertain the idea to talk with anyone who rolls in the lab, solo or not solo, because 80% of times when I have given the benefit of a doubt, I've been either robbed straight up or they have attempted to do so, or befriended until backup arrives or an opportunity strikes, which has hindered my will to even attempt to try to make any RP on the spot or possibly in the future due to the connection made.

While I appreciate the hard work and the improvements that Bala is doing for the community and the map, the labs right now is a good prof who the labs are made for. They are literally small arenas for the fights. It's a paintball arena.

While some might say otherwise, I genuinely do not believe that the administration and the devs have actually thought about how to balance it out so that both type of players would be included and satisfied, because there were some alternatives already suggested beforehand and I could suggest couple of more that would balance stuff out and not make it OP or "printing money" as some has claimed.

While I understand that action increases the activity for the server and public labs is a good way how to keep it up, but it also decreases the quality of the server which for someone like me is a bigger loss in this scenario, because I rather lose 5 ruleplayers than 1 roleplayer.

 

[Ritchie Stones]

On 10/21/2024 at 4:35 PM, DontSniffSugar said:

Private drug labs were extremely unhealthy for the environment and ecosystem of Eclipse. All they were was essentially a free money generator while somebody sat inside of a property or RV for 13 hours a day doing no interaction with other players while they’re printing off free money. 

There’s plenty of other ways to make money as a criminal, with it being chopping, stores, banks, house robberies, and you can still cook at public labs if drugs are your thing.

You’ve got to understand that isolating yourself for hours on end isn’t healthy at all for a social server.

13 hours inside a house printing money, do you even read yourself ?. nobody spends 13 hours inside like that, 
its to boring, and its not even sustainable to keep that consistent, your just throwing numbers at this point, and none of your facts are valid. just stop talking. i suggest you try cook inside for 13 hours for 1 day, and you wont touch a table in month because its that tedious. 

also go and join those labs for a few weeks and see how it goes for you.... you will talk different about public labs and the mentality 

[Ritchie Stones]

the only alternative i see, is make plants being able to plant them everywhere on the map.
that way there is enough of product to move around in the limited labs available.
which should become more open labs available in one timeframe.

- many gangs+ individuals will be seeking those planting plants, = more journey exploring the map looking for RP
that's active RP action taking.
- prosperity is back in any class of crim life, from big gangs to solo crims
- all product has to be moved towards those active labs = creates even more RP ONTOP of the planting overall in the map.

i have literally laid out a plan that simple for 2 years already to the server.
after 4 years of observation, THIS IS IT, people will go wild for this, and it will attract many more ppl,

it is literally the reversed script from the private labs but with active RP, and PVP, but with more to win in all areas for everyone.
i think the devs even know about this to this point but they scared to take the leap of faith. for a "possible" imbalance in the server. and that fear is holding back everyone
 

[Chubbyy]

On 10/22/2024 at 1:44 AM, PurplePlant said:

I imagine you could add features to cooking that make it more risky, maybe the rv explodes or makes a smoke coming out of the RV suggesting it is cooking. I like the idea of the RV having a real purpose for the interior other than a cool driving home.

 

 

with RVs there was smoke that came out from below the door when/if someone was cooking, you could only have a max of 5/10 tables within an RV also comin from a person who used to cook on 100 tables solo cooking over 1000 LSD in little over 2 hours, it was easy money but then it all changed.


they added the spills, the random blowing up. they removed the filling of water bottles from inside a property forcing you to go outside, they increased the weight of the water bottles and so on.....

with all the changes that came to solo drug lab cooking you could barely run 20 tables with 3 people which still didnt stop the random explosions.  taking away the personal labs also took RP away from LEOs for raiding properties... Kinda miss hearing the massive BOOOM across the city and seeing the fire dep. LEO and Medics which created a massive RP scene  


Maybe they could add something like a chop shop where you need something to place down a temp lab that can be stolen and/or taken, it would make those people who spent millions on tables, vents, water bottles to not go to waste while still including the risk vs reward factor as its outside.

if that's not somethin that they want then please remove them as an item that can be ordered by official factions as the items is now useless 

Private labs were also a money sink for the server that was very much needed.. yeah it was easy money BUT.... the costs if they blew up was massive

Costs:

Tables were 10/15k per table 

Vents 50k stock import plus tax 70k+

plus the house/property costs (you could loose the property if it was raided more then 3 times..  its happened)

the price for water bottles

the price for the things needed to cook

Edited October 23, 2024 by ItsChubby

[Ritchie Stones]

12 hours ago, ItsChubby said:

with RVs there was smoke that came out from below the door when/if someone was cooking, you could only have a max of 5/10 tables within an RV also comin from a person who used to cook on 100 tables solo cooking over 1000 LSD in little over 2 hours, it was easy money but then it all changed.


they added the spills, the random blowing up. they removed the filling of water bottles from inside a property forcing you to go outside, they increased the weight of the water bottles and so on.....

with all the changes that came to solo drug lab cooking you could barely run 20 tables with 3 people which still didnt stop the random explosions.  taking away the personal labs also took RP away from LEOs for raiding properties... Kinda miss hearing the massive BOOOM across the city and seeing the fire dep. LEO and Medics which created a massive RP scene  


Maybe they could add something like a chop shop where you need something to place down a temp lab that can be stolen and/or taken, it would make those people who spent millions on tables, vents, water bottles to not go to waste while still including the risk vs reward factor as its outside.

if that's not somethin that they want then please remove them as an item that can be ordered by official factions as the items is now useless 

Private labs were also a money sink for the server that was very much needed.. yeah it was easy money BUT.... the costs if they blew up was massive

Costs:

Tables were 10/15k per table 

Vents 50k stock import plus tax 70k+

plus the house/property costs (you could loose the property if it was raided more then 3 times..  its happened)

the price for water bottles

the price for the things needed to cook

they took away the most exciting reason to to crim and that was to reinvest your earnings to grow bigger towards a kingpin mentality. that is what crim life is al about, taking risk, make good money, reinvest and repeat.

they took this away for the main reason to create more RP, and also to reduce the toxic clapper mentality.
none of those things actualized, the clapper mentality is still there,
 

at least back then people kept long term connections to do great deals keeping it consistent, and friendships where actually made. now I feel like its everyone on themself minding their own business.


 

[Diligo]

When looking at the main issue here is - cooking drugs is now more boring for solo crims and smaller gangs but especially boring when encountering a struggling hakuchou drag owner in need of 5 plants.

 

A simple rule change to robberies -

Robbing someone just because they are in a drug lab is not realistic.

I get it - losing is not fun, but you cant just take and never give back right? Gotta lose some times..

Except when it gets annoying, every one robbing you before getting to know you, which creates a type of crowd behaviour. Everybody starts to rob everyone. That is annoying and poor roleplay - which makes experienced and appreciated roleplayers to stop coming into the server.

Like a month ago I appreciated the tension of being in a drug lab - not knowing if the jugular driving in the chili lab is lost mc or esm or even midnight. 

Now if I hear a sound, I have to jump on my bike and head off or lose everything.

Sometimes we just gotta ask ourselves - do we like the experience or are we enduring it? This last month I had to endure the crim roleplay so much that I just chose to be a civilian and wait for a pop-up event to come.
I know, i am bad, i make mistakes and a lot of clappers probably think "git gud, noob" .. except this is what you say at a competitive multiplayer game where you play player versus.. player..

Edited October 24, 2024 by Nikolia

[Blazendary]

Honestly I get why they removed apartment labs, from the sound of it it seemed like people would just sit there all day being un raidable

Bur I feel like they should re allow RV cooking or private tables you can place down. I feel like why have private chops and not have private tables yk? 

 

They could increase the timers it takes to cook to balance it more so people are still inclined to go to labs for better timing ETC.

But why waste a whole script system?

[Ritchie Stones]

1 hour ago, Blazendary said:

Honestly I get why they removed apartment labs, from the sound of it it seemed like people would just sit there all day being un raidable

Bur I feel like they should re allow RV cooking or private tables you can place down. I feel like why have private chops and not have private tables yk? 

 

They could increase the timers it takes to cook to balance it more so people are still inclined to go to labs for better timing ETC.

But why waste a whole script system?

but it was slower in private labs, it took 11 minutes to make one drug

[Ritchie Stones]

1 hour ago, Nikolia said:

When looking at the main issue here is - cooking drugs is now more boring for solo crims and smaller gangs but especially boring when encountering a struggling hakuchou drag owner in need of 5 plants.

 

A simple rule change to robberies -

Robbing someone just because they are in a drug lab is not realistic.

I get it - losing is not fun, but you cant just take and never give back right? Gotta lose some times..

Except when it gets annoying, every one robbing you before getting to know you, which creates a type of crowd behaviour. Everybody starts to rob everyone. That is annoying and poor roleplay - which makes experienced and appreciated roleplayers to stop coming into the server.

Like a month ago I appreciated the tension of being in a drug lab - not knowing if the jugular driving in the chili lab is lost mc or esm or even midnight. 

Now if I hear a sound, I have to jump on my bike and head off or lose everything.

Sometimes we just gotta ask ourselves - do we like the experience or are we enduring it? This last month I had to endure the crim roleplay so much that I just chose to be a civilian and wait for a pop-up event to come.
I know, i am bad, i make mistakes and a lot of clappers probably think "git gud, noob" .. except this is what you say at a competitive multiplayer game where you play player versus.. player..

i think that rule would make plant pickers almost invincible, which is also not good, 
here is another thing, the gangs have become so competitive shootout baiters, that I don't want to be part of any of it, and I don't mind an escalating situation, but what is happening is rightout baiting for trouble and they go far as personal as possible to get it from you, in 4 years been in the city, and I feel less and less wanting to have anything to do with gangs because its so outrageous, and on top of that If I mess up, I get banned on top of that so yeah... forget about it, solo crim all the way and the gap only getting wider, and it makes people eventually leave.

the life span is short to 3 months now, sometimes 6, max 12 if they commited.
if this is the final developers goal, its a slow depressing decline to the end.

the goal was to get ppl to unite in gangs, with a healthy environment and active RP, and get rid of the toxic clapper mentality, 
everyone should ask themself.. "did we get that result ?" 

solo crims took all the punches instead. when they where the actual ppl who made at least more rp happen than pvp.
so pvp won. 

[CharlesXiao]

IMO private labs brought more RP than public labs do nowadays. In todays age you either are solo and pick plants and solo cook only for a larger gang to roll up and steal everything u less you’d like to fight them for it and lose because everyone has MK2 weapons with 100ap and minimum 12 people rolling around or you go legal. With private labs lysergic and muriatic we’re in high demand you needed to make connection and have RP ops with others in order to obtain a sustainable amount to cook in your private lab. Not to mention needing to grind your way up to be able to afford a 1-2 mil + property then furnishing it and obtaining tons of tables and vents to effectively cook. Overall as it stands in the server public labs are basically a PVP mosh pit with everyone running around with MK2 Weapons, 100 AP and bum rush with 12+ members to take a lab. Although i am not a solo crim i would still like to see options for them to make money. Private labs imo were good for the server and i can see them coming back after the bottles were changed and tables being able to spill making it so u can’t manage 100 tables solo anymore 

[Ritchie Stones]

2 minutes ago, RAttlesnake7473 said:

IMO private labs brought more RP than public labs do nowadays. In todays age you either are solo and pick plants and solo cook only for a larger gang to roll up and steal everything u less you’d like to fight them for it and lose because everyone has MK2 weapons with 100ap and minimum 12 people rolling around or you go legal. With private labs lysergic and muriatic we’re in high demand you needed to make connection and have RP ops with others in order to obtain a sustainable amount to cook in your private lab. Not to mention needing to grind your way up to be able to afford a 1-2 mil + property then furnishing it and obtaining tons of tables and vents to effectively cook. Overall as it stands in the server public labs are basically a PVP mosh pit with everyone running around with MK2 Weapons, 100 AP and bum rush with 12+ members to take a lab. Although i am not a solo crim i would still like to see options for them to make money. Private labs imo were good for the server and i can see them coming back after the bottles were changed and tables being able to spill making it so u can’t manage 100 tables solo anymore 

it was even better, you had a reason to reinvest and it was a system that could make you grow bigger and bigger.
it was a great capitalistic idea to reinvest more and more+ the risk to lose a lot. ppl made and kept long term connections, a lot of trade was going on, and a lot of benefits between gangs and solo crims.

now a bf 400 pick some plants is as far as it gets in the drug game, it has no further expansion than that.

[CharlesXiao]

6 minutes ago, Ritchie Stones said:

it was even better, you had a reason to reinvest and it was a system that could make you grow bigger and bigger.
it was a great capitalistic idea to reinvest more and more+ the risk to lose a lot. ppl made and kept long term connections, a lot of trade was going on, and a lot of benefits between gangs and solo crims.

now a bf 400 pick some plants is as far as it gets in the drug game, it has no further expansion than that.

Exactly, back when private labs were in. My character spent around 4+ months working weazel grinding close to 70 hours a week to be able to afford a property and still have cash left over to then afford tables. During that time he made connections in the crim world with old friends and new ones. It was more RP involved and connections were made. Nowadays only people you need to know are anyone in your gang and maybe a weed supplier you pay to pick plants for you. That’s it. Yes people made insane cash back then but that was before tables spilled etc… Now if it was reintroduced yes you can’t make as much but the staple still is the same. You’d need connections to get ingredients, tables, vents, bottles.