Charlie2231 Posted September 25, 2024 Report Posted September 25, 2024 Lately, the RP with PD hasn't been the best, the immersion hasn't really been there. Personally a percentage of the LSPD just want to shoot and aren't really here to RP some of the time, I am not trying to be toxic in this suggestion I'm just trying to express my thoughts and potentially receive sides of the story and have a few things put in place to help the immersion of RP. Power Trip Mentality To kick this suggestion off, I believe the "Power Trip Mentality" has been a big issue lately in the PD community, in some RP scenarios they will stack charges and just feel invincible in what they do without consequences. Even when in a normal pursuit without being aggressive they just pop tires and box you in even without ram bars, it's just promoting poor quality RP. When I first joined the server the immersion was amazing, I loved it, that's what drew me to put so many hours into this community and join a faction. I feel like it's really been going downhill these past few months and I really want it to be looked into and fixed. I feel like other criminals can agree with me. I want to make it clear it's not all members of the community. I also want to make it CLEAR I don't want criminals and law enforcement argue in this post, instead come together and explore ways of fixing this.
Clank Posted September 25, 2024 Report Posted September 25, 2024 (edited) I feel like the easiest way to not get police attention is to keep your criminal activities hidden. If someone is a brazen criminal and advertises it like they are wearing a billboard on their head, you're going to get attention from the police and be met with harsher force. Example being, organizations like Black Corp and The Souls have raised little to no police attention. While on the opposite end of the spectrum organizations like OTF and The Shadows being very public. If you're going to roleplay being in a terrorist organization, you should roleplay it to the fullest extent. You think Osama Bin Laden is going to go to burgershot and hang out in the parking lot? A lot of players roleplay their criminal characters to have huge egos, which is fine you know its all IC and roleplay - BUT if you're going to roleplay having a huge ego then don't get shocked when your character gets ICly humbled by a bigger fish. Sometimes humility goes a long way. I think a lot of the time people choose to make their characters go down a certain path. You've got to remember that someone roleplaying a police character also has a brain and is not just a robot. The bottom line is, someone playing a criminal character should very carefully and meticulously pick at straws when it comes to dealing with the police. The common misconception is that police being "Aggressive" is a "power trip" when in reality its not. "Stacking Charges" is irrelevant with the fine and time cap, and a lot of people don't really understand what "Stacking Charges" is. If you commit the act ICly, you're liable to be charged. People just need to understand their actions have consequences ICly. If a cop wrongs you ICly then wrong them back ICly. Edited September 25, 2024 by Clank 1 2
Quietthecutie Posted September 25, 2024 Report Posted September 25, 2024 Just gonna pop a quick side note in here that the lack of RP/immersion is by no means entirely on PD/LEOs. With alot of criminals the best type of RP you can get outa of them is "broken legs" and "able." people headglitch, people metagame, people do things that make practically 0 sense RPly. just last night i had someone roll up to me on my LEO and just casually say "hey, i have a gun." on what planet does that make sense? None of these things are entirely OK and LEOs are certainly not blameless but its important to acknowledge that the decline in good RP is not just from LEOs its from the community at large. Good RP can and does happen on all sides but also very poor, disappointing RP too.
Demonmit1 Posted September 26, 2024 Report Posted September 26, 2024 (edited) TL;DR the problem isnt crim vs PD, the problem is Crim income has been repeatedly nerfed, while costs to buy things have increased. Crims put it on LEO for interrupting them grinding money, thinking its LEO's fault, starting this self feeding toxicity of crim vs leo arguments. fixing/buffing income will drastically reduce negative OOC interactions and crim vs PD debates. this is a video game, not a second life. people shouldnt be expected to work a 40 hour job on this server to have a chance to make any money. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think the one of the core issues is the economy changes that have happened over the past few months. ways to make money as a solo or small group of crims has been nerfed, freelance jobs have been nerfed, and costs have gone up. the time it takes to recoup money after an interaction with law enforcement has extended so far that its not worth the time investment for most people. lets give an example: you're a criminal who robbed a store. you have a firearm with you. you evade, but an officer stood in front of your car to bait DM rights, you get caught, you then make it difficult to be put in cuffs. these are your charges: armed robbery - $4000 - 60 minute jail assault with a deadly weapon against a gov employee - $4500 - 68 minute jail Felony Public Endangerment - $3000 fine - 60 minute jail Possession of a class 1 firearm - $2000 - 30 minute jail Unlawful assembly - $1000 - 15 minute jail Face concealment (b) - $1750 - 20 minutes jail obstruction of justice - $1000 fine - 25 minutes jail Failure to comply/identify - $1000 fine - 20 minutes jail Resisting arrest - $2000 fine - 25 minutes jail receiving stolen property - $1000 - 10 minutes jail so you're looking at $21,250 in fines, and 333 minutes in DOC. you get 33 minutes off for free cause of the 5 hour limit. you complain that the officer "stacked charges" cause some of those charges would cover the other charges you got. the PD officer laughs in your face and says take it to court, we'll see you in 8 IRL months. you lost your gun, which was likely a .50, which people pay $7,000-$12,000 for. your car got impounded, which is around $3000 for a basic car to get it back out. but you're not allowed to get it back for 24 in real life hours cause script limitations. so you log out. you come back two days later, finish up your hour left in DOC, and pay $1500 to get a taxi ride to mission row cause PD out of spite refuses to leave your stuff at DOC so you can get it back quickly. you spend 20 minutes waiting at mission row for an officer to care to get your stuff, watching several roll up, despawn their wrecked car, and go join the other 15 officers in some chase in the far off distance. you then wait another 30 minutes to an hour spamming the ringer at impound to pay to get your car back. once you get it back, you go pay $4000 for a on site repair cause PD full speed rammed you several times the moment you tried to evade, perm stalling the car. it takes 30 minutes for a mechanic to drive around the corner for the call. $21,250 in fines $1,500 to get back to the city $10,200 to replace the illegal items and "illegal" items cops keep cause they could be illegal but werent used in the crime. $7,000 to get your car back and fixed, so all in all it costs about $40,000 to get arrested for robbing a store, that you make $8,000 from max, cause you're at least splitting it two ways since it takes two people to do it. for 15 minutes of "fun" RP as a crim, robbing, a chase, and getting processed, you spent 3 hours and not play for two days just to get back to square one out of prison with your car. now you have to make $40,000 back. do you risk losing another 40k trying to rob stores? naw lets do something more chill and go work at burgershot. you start working, clocking on. you get paid nothing for 30 minutes for some reason. from there you make $900 every 10 minutes. you stand staring soullessly at burgershot for an hour. you make $2700 in your paycheck, but wait, tax is 35%, so you really only made $1755. after 4 hours of DOC and getting all your shit back, you're now hungry and thirsty, and a sandwich is $750, and a bottle of water is $400. you you end the day up $605 profit. nerfing crim income has pushed SO many players away from crim. the server is so blatantly PD sided its very frustrating as a crim, to try grinding out money to recoup costs of a failed robbery or trying to get that decent car you wanted. Crim players see law enforcement as directly affecting their fun on the server, interrupting their grind they have to do to have short bursts of fun RP, and get fed up with law enforcement due to that. but the problem isnt law enforcement, the problem is all the income nerfs for crims that have happened. the economy is fucked anyways for a server thats been up for 5 years with no wipe. why start trying to limit income now? Edited September 26, 2024 by Demonmit1
Bala Posted September 26, 2024 Report Posted September 26, 2024 2 hours ago, Charlie2231 said: Lately, the RP with PD hasn't been the best, the immersion hasn't really been there. Personally a percentage of the LSPD just want to shoot and aren't really here to RP some of the time, I am not trying to be toxic in this suggestion I'm just trying to express my thoughts and potentially receive sides of the story and have a few things put in place to help the immersion of RP. Power Trip Mentality To kick this suggestion off, I believe the "Power Trip Mentality" has been a big issue lately in the PD community, in some RP scenarios they will stack charges and just feel invincible in what they do without consequences. Even when in a normal pursuit without being aggressive they just pop tires and box you in even without ram bars, it's just promoting poor quality RP. When I first joined the server the immersion was amazing, I loved it, that's what drew me to put so many hours into this community and join a faction. I feel like it's really been going downhill these past few months and I really want it to be looked into and fixed. I feel like other criminals can agree with me. I want to make it clear it's not all members of the community. I also want to make it CLEAR I don't want criminals and law enforcement argue in this post, instead come together and explore ways of fixing this. I'll be honest with you, the real problem here is that what you are describing is not a problem to be solved, it's a natural evolution of the PD faction adjusting to the environment it and you operate in. If you've ever heard the term 'product of environment' this is what it is. There has been no orders or decision made to be more aggressive, just simply as things have escalated, the LSPD isn't going to be any faction's bitch. While we won't do anything to win a situation, we're not trying to lose on purpose either. I realize that for you and these "other criminals", that is going to be a point of contention and frustration but this is the way it is. You can say that you don't want criminals and law enforcement to argue and to come together and explore ways of fixing this. I don't agree with your opinion and so now I'm arguing with you. I'm not sure what era of Eclipse you've joined in, but when was the immersion amazing? Was it when everyone runs around masked up, talking into their walkie talkies? Maybe it's when everyone rides BF-400s up mountain sides, after a bank robbery? Maybe when cop killers and hardened criminals are asking for badge numbers, so they can file internal affairs reports? Maybe when criminals are jamming up law enforcement frequencies? Maybe it's when you have a faction attacking the Governor on multiple occasions at City Hall, Mr. Shadow? Maybe it's when we're defacing the interiors of Government Buildings with Graffiti? Maybe it's current personal favorite, when we're driving 240 in broken credit vehicles with a speaker upgrade? Maybe it's when people full on sprint while they are cuffed? Maybe it's when people blatantly ignore the effects of being tased multiple times and continue running? Can you or one of the "other criminals" tell me what sort of Police Department they would like, in a server where all that goes on? Now the difference between someone like me and someone like you is that I've accepted that those are the behaviors of most criminals on this server, those behaviors aren't really going to change and that for my own personal enjoyment, I just focus on treating people as their reactions call for and try to have entertaining interactions with people. If you are respectful and compliant, even as a criminal, you get treated with respect and favorably. If you raise up trying to fight or want to start talking that shit, then you'll going to get beat on or you're going to get the verbal exchange back. Our job is to maintain control, so there is a certain power play element there. Your job is to try and take control from us. We do not stack charges, we give people the charges for the crimes they have committed. There is no longer any leeway for us to give less charges, the unnaturally violent insertion of the Judicial Branch has seen to that, so you gotta get what you are guilty of. Perhaps if you and your "other criminals" weren't like criminal lemmings and actually put some thought into doing things the smart way, rather than the meta way, you wouldn't end up on the business end of an LSPD boot? I dunno, maybe you still would? I stand behind all my faction members, as long as they areoperating within the server's and our faction rules'. We're the best faction on this server, we have been since day one and it's not even close. ILY. ❤ 1 1
Demonmit1 Posted September 26, 2024 Report Posted September 26, 2024 (edited) 2 hours ago, Bala said: Can you or one of the "other criminals" tell me what sort of Police Department they would like, in a server where all that goes on? (yes, i got my receipts... lol) i want a law enforcement that doesnt just camp labs i want a law enforcement faction that has reasonable resource management and doesnt send every unit available on one chase, ignoring every other call. i want law enforcement to have proportional responses to the crime committed (3k XP on the character, no real charges, was pulled over for a missing license plate, why did 5 cruisers need to show up?) I want law enforcement that dont immediately ram/pit a chase the second it starts. I want law enforcement that dont high speed ram so much they're stalling their own cars. I want law enforcement that dont spawn a new better gun in the middle of a firefight cause they ran out of ammo, especially when they have a sidearm thats fully functional i want law enforcement to not be able to instantly despawn their cars and spawn in a new one cause they suck at driving i want law enforcement to have some form of negative affect for always wearing 100 AP having double the health of every player I want law enforcement to not have an overpowered "i win" button taser I want law enforcement to not magdump people with tactical SMG's in a highspeed chase I want law enforcement to not tase people from their car in a highspeed chase I want law enforcement that doesnt charge the citation, misdemeanor, and felony version of the same crime, what crims say is "charge stacking" to spite a criminal, and then laugh in their face telling them to take it to JB in 8 months. I want LFM to set up an OOC IA report system for law enforcement factions to review reports from players, that are open publicly to view reports and conclusions I want law enforcement faction rules to be public OOCly, so members can be held to a higher standard in OOC reports. I want the LSPD force continuum to be public ICly, so that officers can be held to a higher standard in character Perhaps if you and your other "reactive roleplay officers" weren't like robocop and actually put some thought into doing things the fun way, rather than the play to win way, you wouldn't end up on the business end of an IA reports and constant OOC complaints on the forum? I dunno, maybe you still would? SD understand this next concept way better than LSPD. its more fun to play with a handicap up front when you know you have superior numbers, health, vehicles, and weapons you can fall back on if necessary. LSPD treats every situation as the worst case scenario and outrageously overmatches power every time. Edited September 26, 2024 by Demonmit1
Clank Posted September 26, 2024 Report Posted September 26, 2024 2 hours ago, Demonmit1 said: Perhaps if you and your other "reactive roleplay officers" weren't like robocop and actually put some thought into doing things the fun way, rather than the play to win way, you wouldn't end up on the business end of an IA reports and constant OOC complaints on the forum? I dunno, maybe you still would? I think some people enjoy and find it fun to roleplay realism. That is the thing you seem to be missing. Just because someone stops you from completing your in character goal does not make it "playing to win".
Demonmit1 Posted September 26, 2024 Report Posted September 26, 2024 1 minute ago, Clank said: I think some people enjoy and find it fun to roleplay realism. That is the thing you seem to be missing. Just because someone stops you from completing your in character goal does not make it "playing to win". so you missed the entire point... LOL
Clank Posted September 26, 2024 Report Posted September 26, 2024 Just now, Demonmit1 said: so you missed the entire point... LOL You posted a grocery list of things you wanted. Then said you want people to do things "The fun way". "Fun" is relative to each person. Like your video of you being pit after driving like a psychopath down a populated city square. You might think its fun to drive around like that, some people might see it as poor roleplay that a handful of members of a terrorist organization mixed with another gang are having a junker car street race at Legion Square. The same way you have a list of "wants", every single person playing this server has a list too.
Demonmit1 Posted September 26, 2024 Report Posted September 26, 2024 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Clank said: You posted a grocery list of things you wanted. did you not read what Bala said at all? bala said exactly what i said but i replaced crim with cop. im sarcastically copying what he said word for word and you're complaining about me saying it but not Bala... lol 24 minutes ago, Clank said: "Fun" is relative to each person. about 3/5 officers in LSPD's idea of fun is to have unlimited guns, cars, armor they can freely spawn in to overpower and punish players with no downsides or balance. the server entirely caters to law enforcement and has repeatedly nerfed criminals. at what point is there just no one left for police to RP with? cause thats the way its going. Edited September 26, 2024 by Demonmit1
Clank Posted September 26, 2024 Report Posted September 26, 2024 4 minutes ago, Demonmit1 said: did you not read what Bala said at all? bala said exactly what i said but i replaced crim with cop. im sarcastically copying what he said word for word and you're complaining about me saying it but not Bala... lol I was not complaining at all about your list? I addressed a specific portion of your entire post, which by the way has no sarcastic indicators at all. I think you misunderstand my replies. I am not complaining, I am simply providing readers with both sides of the picture. Like I said, you want to roleplay a character that drives around legion square in junker cars so-be-it. Law enforcement characters are there to stop you. Its almost like your characters actions have consequences man.
Demonmit1 Posted September 26, 2024 Report Posted September 26, 2024 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Clank said: you want to roleplay a character that drives around legion square in junker cars so-be-it. Law enforcement characters are there to stop you cool, its fun to head on ram a vastly inferior car that has no chance of escaping, so you can instantly shut down the RP and win as fast as possible, going so far as to non RP ramming without pushbars so hard that you're stalling your own vehicles, that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to stop a $2000 car. but you dont give a shit cause you can just spawn a new car instantly and be on with your day and go do it to more people. lol its not a LEO issue, its a LSPD issue. i can drive a scrap car against SD and they'll use logic to take it out, set up barricades, spike traps, and then go in for a tactical pit. LSPD dive bomb rams you until the car blows up the moment they see you, or they just shoot you. lol. two people died from that race cause LSPD started shooting. Three cars blew up from getting rammed. LSPD damaged/destroyed millions of dollars of STX's to take out $25k worth of cars as fast as possible. thats the way LSPD likes to have fun, playing "realistic" my favorite "realistic" part is getting grenades thrown at me while im evading in a scrap car. cause that makes sense. Edited September 26, 2024 by Demonmit1
Demonmit1 Posted September 26, 2024 Report Posted September 26, 2024 (edited) 3 hours ago, Demonmit1 said: Perhaps if you and your other "reactive roleplay officers" weren't like robocop and actually put some thought into doing things the fun way, rather than the play to win way, you wouldn't end up on the business end of an IA reports and constant OOC complaints on the forum? I dunno, maybe you still would? just to explain more. this is generalized, this isnt you @Bala you as dezzy bala have always been one of the exceptions that reacts accordingly to the threat, plays fair, and overall just enjoyable to interact with every time ive ran into you. theres maybe a couple handfuls of others that are genuinely wonderful to interact with. BUT, the general mindset of your average LSPD player is exactly this. it doesnt matter what character im on. I can be on my actual hardcore crim, Billy the drunk, my new crim, or my legal, and get treated the exact same way by your average officer. you have high ranking people in your faction that play like this, display these attitudes, and set this expectation on how things are done for your lower ranks. you need to play a crim that no one would recognize and experience it. make a crim, come find Billy or Raymond, and spend a day with me. i'll show you what its like as someone who actively plays with a high standard of RP on RP heavy characters. 7 hours ago, Demonmit1 said: lets give an example: ^ this is the average experience. less and less people are willing to put up with it. Edited September 26, 2024 by Demonmit1
MrSilky Posted September 26, 2024 Report Posted September 26, 2024 9 hours ago, Charlie2231 said: I also want to make it CLEAR I don't want criminals and law enforcement argue in this post, instead come together and explore ways of fixing this. Guess y’all missed this in OPs post huh?
Quietthecutie Posted September 26, 2024 Report Posted September 26, 2024 1 minute ago, MrSilky said: Guess y’all missed this in OPs post huh? In fairness if I tell you not to think about elephants then engage you in a conversation about elephants....youre gonna find it hard not to think about elephants. . .
Normal Posted September 26, 2024 Report Posted September 26, 2024 6 hours ago, Bala said: I'm not sure what era of Eclipse you've joined in, but when was the immersion amazing? Was it when everyone runs around masked up, talking into their walkie talkies? Maybe it's when everyone rides BF-400s up mountain sides, after a bank robbery? Maybe when cop killers and hardened criminals are asking for badge numbers, so they can file internal affairs reports? Maybe when criminals are jamming up law enforcement frequencies? Maybe it's when you have a faction attacking the Governor on multiple occasions at City Hall, Mr. Shadow? Maybe it's when we're defacing the interiors of Government Buildings with Graffiti? Maybe it's current personal favorite, when we're driving 240 in broken credit vehicles with a speaker upgrade? Maybe it's when people full on sprint while they are cuffed? Maybe it's when people blatantly ignore the effects of being tased multiple times and continue running? Can you or one of the "other criminals" tell me what sort of Police Department they would like, in a server where all that goes on? Man i agree that sometimes crims do do things like that and it effectively ruins some immersion for law involved, but some of this shit you listed is shit the server doesnt see regularly and made for different roleplay, the meta for crims is wake up, get on freq, and roll other gangs at labs, so why complain when a gang switches that up and goes after the government and not another gang? i also like to mention 6 hours ago, Bala said: If you've ever heard the term 'product of environment' this is what it is. There has been no orders or decision made to be more aggressive, just simply as things have escalated, the LSPD isn't going to be any faction's bitch. While we won't do anything to win a situation, we're not trying to lose on purpose either. I realize that for you and these "other criminals", that is going to be a point of contention and frustration but this is the way it is. Crims have evolved to react to the way pd handle these scenes, when i personally am being chased by sd for around 5-10 minutes and am having fun with the chase because they arent insta pitting or ramming, pd decides to join in and starts pitting within 2 seconds of them joining, now you could say oh you mustve had some sports car or big hard car to chase, no mr bala. i had a 1.5k scrapyard car, pd just have a w mentality for any and all chases, yet the higher ups in pd have become blind by it and seem to think the players want their faction to become another factions "bitch", which has never even been mentioned and is irrelevant. Id understand pitting and ramming, when areas are clear (highways) or if the criminal has actively threatened officers lives by pitting them, shooting, or break checking the officer to gain distance, but a criminal who is simply evading on roads in a shit car doesnt need pit into 4 different poles and 2 buildings because pd decide to pit in an area that is congested by buildings, poles, fences, realistically also would be congested by civilians.
jason Posted September 26, 2024 Report Posted September 26, 2024 Hey @Charlie2231, We appreciate your effort to take an appropriate avenue to discuss this issue. While you may feel it's a fruitless endeavor, I can assure you that the faction leadership in the LSPD and LSSD factions do care about the roleplay standards being put forth by their members. You can leave feedback for people you have encounters with regarding LSSD's roleplay here and for LSPD's roleplay by sending a message to @MrSilky and/or @Pazz here on the forums. If a player is breaking the rules surrounding poor RP or powergaming, you are entitled to make a forum report with documentation of the suspected rulebreak. Please ensure that you read these rules prior to doing so, as roleplay you personally do not enjoy may not constitute a rulebreak. As others aren't able to provide the respect to your request of not turning it into an argument, we're going to be locking and archiving it.
