Police ruining the quality of roleplay in this server.

[Bala]

Given the amount of interactions PD will have with people during the day, talking about specific incidents is again, just rubbish.

It's not indicative of anything, other than a situation where someone felt that we were only allowed to do certain things and other things happened or they weren't aware of the reason we were pulling them. Like, some how it's our fault that our interpretation of your actions don't match your own or we're supposed to go out out of character to explain why you've done something wrong.

The title of this thread is police ruining the quality of roleplay in the server. Well, this police is saying, what roleplay are we ruining exactly?

If I do here what you are doing here. All criminals just tell you to kill yourselves over a traffic stop because you went over the speed limit, scream slurs into their peaking microphones, betray the criminal code by acting like karens and asking for the badge number, all the while going around looking for other people to clap and rob because they can't sit still for five minutes and play a character but have to move somewhere before the storm comes in like it's Fortnite.

You see how I just generalised an entire community of people based on individual incidents? Most decent crims aren't like that and how you are suggesting and generalising cops, isn't an accurate portrayal either.

The LSPD faction has the highest standard of roleplay on the server. It might not be 100% consistent all the time but you will struggle to find a more realistic portrayal of anything on Eclipse Roleplay than the LSPD. 

Edited October 2, 2023 by Bala

[a1ex]

On 9/30/2023 at 11:13 PM, itamisaisei said:

it is not cap. I literally have an open report of a DoC officer using an AR to kill an unarmed inmate.

The reason we utilize heavy weaponry inside of doc is due to the heavy damage that you take from melee attacks from inmates, along with the amount of attacks we receive especially when we are alone. There are strict rules around the use of these weapons icly which means punishments are regularly issued if these rules are broken, again we are still subject to deathmatching rules like everyone else. Also another point of us using heavy weaponry is that it is very common when people get into doc for them to fully ignore fearrp/deathmatching rules that they would obey outside of the prison which means we are attacked much more regularly and have to use this if we want to keep it a fair fight. To put this into perspective you can injure someone on full health with 4-5 melee attacks, however a pistol mk2 which is what firearms trained officers can carry regularly can take upwards of 7-8 shots to take down an inmate and even on the heavier side a carbine mk2 which you were shot with can also take upwards of 5-6 shots to take down an inmate so "unarmed" isn't really a justified reason to not use heavy weaponry but this is a completely different conversation. A simple fix to this issue would be to have lockdowns very consistently but Im sure you would also take up issue with that.

All of my comments are made from personal experience over a fairly long time of working there on one of my characters, I also have a large amount of time on my criminal character experiencing this from the other side.

Edited October 3, 2023 by a1ex

[Xoza]

I hate the 'for no reason' argument. How do you know someone doesn't have a reason to do what they're doing? How are you reading minds? If anything there may be an error in judgement, but that doesn't meen it isn't for a reason. Just because you don't know the motives of a faction or character, or the information they have or are working with, doesn't meen they're breaking server rules. This goes with any player, including criminal elements. I've heard similar complaints from officers and even suspected it myself, of another player 'not having a reason' to do something, but we work with it and move on. Some motives can be suspicious or don't seem viable and are reported for it. In criminology there are many reasons for a person to do something, and they mostly end up being about gaining something, material, influential, or power.

Difference mostly is law detain and investigate, and are rarely the first to pull the trigger/attack. I disagree LEO have any 'special permissions' beyond any other player besides the tools they have to BE a law faction. Now, if you analysed them as a 'criminal faction' you may find they're pretty nice.

Edited October 3, 2023 by Xoza

[Freyster]

Hi there, we may or may not know another but i'm Rija and i'm playing an LEO on the server you describe the police as a ruining experience for the server, i have been with the LSPD faction for over a year and i've spent countless hours in different situations, i decided some of your text to make it easier to respond to it overall. 

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Was told by admin to post here if I wanted to pursue this so I feel it needs to be brought to the admins attention more as it’s ruining the realistic aspects of this server severely. Me along with several of my friends in the city have noticed this a lot more recently in the past few months to the point that it’s become a problem and completely ruining the roleplay experience in this server. Police constantly will abuse their power and fail rp. Consistently with every single interaction myself or any of my friends have the cops will immediately fail rp and escalate with no reason to the most extreme measures. For example a traffic stop would be initiated and they go immediately to slamming into u and opening fire on ur vehicle the second u don’t show a sign of stopping this is complete fail rp it would never escalate that quickly in real life nor would a police force ever open fire in the public without either first being fired upon or if they were on foot and someone was attempting to run them over. Nor would they immediately go to pitting a car as it’s a danger to the public and puts others at risk and should not be the go to from the start of a chase. Then if u do stop for a traffic stop they immediately pull out assault rifles and shotguns and hold u at gun point if they’re planning to arrest u.

 

First and foremost, I want to emphasize that we, as LEO rp'ers, are not exempt from any of the deathmatching rules on the server. We do not engage in indiscriminate shooting or ramming without a valid reason or justification. If you witness any such incidents that are clearly a violation of the rules, please use the /report 4 option or the forum report option to bring it to admin attention for appropriate action.

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if they were on foot and someone was attempting to run them over.

Slowing someone down by driving in front of them to stop them  indicated here, the red line is the bridge your vehicle may have stopped at, the blue car was signaling that it was a police vehicle, and you were the black circle running. The intention was to simply impede your progress temporarily, while there may be instances where someone unintentionally flips over or gets "hit" due to either synchronization issues or the vehicle's collision detection. It is important to note that this does not constitute a violaion of any rules and is a common occurrence, here I would like to add that IF you believe a rule has been broken and someone has been aggressively hitting you with their car, record and report, or ask the party to save POV for the rules that have been broken.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

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Nor would they immediately go to pitting a car as it’s a danger to the public and puts others at risk and should not be the go to from the start of a chase.

Pitting has procedures behind it, there is no such thing as pitting and putting people in danger, this is not a thing.

 

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This used to be an Amazing server to play on that was very well balanced and realistic now it just seems like everything is based on the police and they tell u if u have an issue and think it’s a rule break to report it to admins and good luck getting it to go through as there seems to be less active admins these past few months so there’s never enough online to deal with all the rp issues going on in the city at that point in time as myself or friends end up waiting 20,30,40 minutes for an in game response just to not get a response and have our rp experience ruined due to the amount of rule breaks going on.

 

Given the high server turnout, with over 300 active individuals, including both administrators who engage in roleplaying, it is unrealistic to assume that every concern can be promptly addressed. It is important to reognize that administrators and moderators are ordinary individuals, not simply sitting in an obscure location, eagerly awaiting your report. Therefore, I would like to suggest that you consider utilizing the forum reporting feature. 

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I don’t have any video evidence of this currently but I think that admins should sit in on police and speak to them regularly along with some sort of standardized training to help everyone’s role playing experience when in the city as well as reinforce the realism aspect of rp with the cops. The role playing aspect with the police used to be my favorite part of this server now it’s just a joke, completely unbalanced and is fully one sided in favor of police. Myself and my friends will start recording in game experiences as to try to get as much evidence of all of this as possible in an effort to restore the city back to its former glory so everyone in the city can have the best roleplay experiences possible. 

I understand that witnessing individuals engage in poor roleplaying can be quite distressing. However, it is important to note that there are both in-game and external avenues through which you can report scuh incidents for further investigation. In many instances, individuals tend to voice their frustrations and desire for things to be different. I kindly request that you provide constructive suggestions on how to enhance the roleplaying experience. These suggestions are applable to both criminal and legal characters, as both parties should be given equal consideration. By actively participating in this process, we can collectively work towards improving any shortcomings that may have been identified. 

Edited October 4, 2023 by Freyster

[Jremi]

To add to this, I was trying to do a hostage RP inside of someones house yesterday, we spent 10 minutes negotiating just for them to push and shoot us. Wasted the RP potential and honestly smells like win RP to me. Instead of allowing an actualy RP to happen, they'd much rather just push shoot and win the RP rather than consider quality of RP or potential of RP to happen. PD is a huge issue with eclipse rn and are nothing but another gang. I can imagine that Coral was the one who made the call to just raid.

Edited October 4, 2023 by Jremi

[HobGoblin]

20 minutes ago, Jremi said:

I can imagine that Coral was the one who made the call to just raid.

I would find you are mistaken with that one. Not sure how calling out one person out helps any situation.

There are multiple factors to take into consideration before shooting someone who has a hostage.

Edited October 4, 2023 by HobGoblin

[Jremi]

Just now, HobGoblin said:

I would find you are mistaken with that one. Not sure how calling out one person out helps any situation.

There are multiple factors to take into consideration before shooting someone who has a hostage.

But my point here is the quality of rp, we had fun RP potential that was ruined by just pushing and killing us.

[Akio]

20 minutes ago, Jremi said:

 I can imagine that Coral was the one who made the call to just raid.

Sincerely, please get your facts straight and understand the situation before pointing fingers at individuals. This scene I was merely standing by to ensure the safety of everyone else, I didn't make any judgement calls and it was in fact all RP'ed by metro. Metro made the call to move in, Metro made the call to shoot, Coral just stood by not having a clue what was happening. 

[Jremi]

Just now, Akio said:

Sincerely, please get your facts straight and understand the situation before pointing fingers at individuals. This scene I was merely standing by to ensure the safety of everyone else, I didn't make any judgement calls and it was in fact all RP'ed by metro. Metro made the call to move in, Metro made the call to shoot, Coral just stood by not having a clue what was happening. 

I love how the focus is on the last sentence instead of the problem at hand. This is what is wrong with PD.

[Akio]

5 minutes ago, Jremi said:

I love how the focus is on the last sentence instead of the problem at hand. This is what is wrong with PD.

No one is focusing on just one area, I for one know that PD has stated their stance within this forum thread and no matter what is said, the views won't change, they never do. However, I will not stand for my character that I've spent well over a year building up, to be tarnished because someone assumes I've done something.

 

PD try their hardest however what needs to be understood by all is that there's multiple reasons that PD act on different situations, not every situation is the same. We strive to give great RP but it needs to be reciprocated back to us 

Edited October 4, 2023 by Akio

[Requiem]

There is a lot of slander being thrown out that "PD is the worst and ruining the server" with rhetorical situations with 0 context or understanding from both sides. If you are going to make claims of poor RP, it doesn't do any good but create a toxic environment to target certain individuals or just generically slander a whole faction. Report the situations to the correct people and provide actual evidence and context rather than just say "PD bad." Example: I don't know what happened with the hostage situation explained above, but someone can come in claiming PD just rushed in and shot someone ruining the scenario, but maybe the context is that the hostage taker was ICly harming/killing the hostage. PD is ALWAYS reactionary. They never act on a situation unless a criminal does some action first to require that response. SWAT will not just move in on a hostage situation and just shoot someone for no reason...there will be context and reasoning behind that decision. 

[Pazz]

1 hour ago, Jremi said:

I love how the focus is on the last sentence instead of the problem at hand. This is what is wrong with PD.

This deflection is silly. I'm sorry you felt that your potential to participate in quality roleplay of your standard was taken from you, but this attempt at a straw man and a gotcha moment is abhorrent.

Frankly put, you can't always get what you want, and just because you weren't given the opportunity to spend an hour with a hostage does not make it indicative of poor roleplay standards. The fact is that no one gets a one-hundred percent say in how their scenarios play out. The second it is initiated, you are no longer in full control and you're on a dynamic playing field. If you have a hostage, your risk is assessed by law enforcement or other participants, and you either get the opportunity to have a lengthy dialogue or you get incapacitated based on an assessment made by players roleplaying as specialized units.

In that same vein, an officer initiating a traffic stop or an arrest can either have it go smoothly with a dialogue or get shot and wind up dead. I can't imagine all illegal roleplayers would be very satisfied if I then went to make a forum thread or went on an existing one and said "I imagine it was [random name] that made the call to shoot", that person then tells me it's not the case, and I say "haha, you're focusing on an accusation I directed at a very specific person and correcting me, this is what is wrong with criminals".

If you didn't want the focus to be on the misinformation that you decided to spread publicly, then you should have fact-checked before posting. Someone defending themselves and correcting incorrect information that you have shared painting them in a bad light are not ignoring the problem at hand, and it is most certainly not representative of the entire faction.  The fact that you're willing to throw such broad-brush statements around with a lack of self-awareness shows me that there would be no proper debate and only finger-pointing with an added flavor of "PD bad" here.

I'm very open to feedback on my faction. I can't speak for Osborn, but I'm certain he's very open to feedback on his faction. Yes, we enforce strict realism internally as far as internal portrayal goes, but I'm not going to make an enormous statement that we're "the highest standard". We establish and maintain standards and impose these on all members, but there are also criminal groups that do this. I firmly believe everyone has room for improvement, PD included, but as far as I'm concerned, I'll only listen to anyone who has the decency to care for both sides and does not just want to point fingers or brush a group of 100 players as "bad" because of someone defending themselves, and anyone who isn't being plain libelous.

It's frustrating that there may be people with solid and properly presented and substantiated concerns, arguments, and/or feedback that get buried in topics taken over by others who want to point fingers and call others bad instead of having a healthy debate, or even bury their own contributive points by going off the deep end.

My mother asked me how come I'm starting to get gray hairs, I ought to tell her it may be because of the seventeen "PD bad" topics every day. I have a new episode of Ahsoka to watch, ta x

Edited October 4, 2023 by Pazz

[Astrx]

2 hours ago, Jremi said:

I love how the focus is on the last sentence instead of the problem at hand. This is what is wrong with PD.

I mean if your think PD is a problem then look in the mirror. 90% of criminals on this server just care about PVP and do not give a fuck about roleplay. PD roll up on a scene and the best RP we get from everyone there is /do able. In fact, look at your profile picture, flexing an AK man, assets is all people give a fuck about. Instead of insulting people baselessly, take a long hard look and be the change you want to see.  

[Jremi]

10 minutes ago, Astrx said:

I mean if your think PD is a problem then look in the mirror. 90% of criminals on this server just care about PVP and do not give a fuck about roleplay. PD roll up on a scene and the best RP we get from everyone there is /do able. In fact, look at your profile picture, flexing an AK man, assets is all people give a fuck about. Instead of insulting people baselessly, take a long hard look and be the change you want to see.  

Funnily enough its the first time ive ever acc owned an AK, i just needed to change my pfp from a disbanded gang. I understand that PD dont get much good RP, but they had the opportunity last night and they chose to not have actual RP. Even when the opportunity is presented to them. All the gangs I've been a part of, I've never got into a shootout with cops til last nights situation, that I actually wanted to avoid a shootout with them anyway, and actually wanted to RP negotiations, letting go of the hostage, having a getaway plan. Even if we got caught it would've still been fun. But I get it, most of the time people dont want the RP and just want a shootout but as an ex-text RP player I'm wanting to actually take part in actual RP, and honestly Eclipse isnt looking like the best place for it rn because of everything, and its not anyones fault, its just the nature of RP servers generally.

[Fancyme]

14 minutes ago, Astrx said:

I mean if your think PD is a problem then look in the mirror. 90% of criminals on this server just care about PVP and do not give a fuck about roleplay. PD roll up on a scene and the best RP we get from everyone there is /do able. In fact, look at your profile picture, flexing an AK man, assets is all people give a fuck about. Instead of insulting people baselessly, take a long hard look and be the change you want to see.  

Criminals are pretty limited with what they can do scriptly. Look at the most viewed ECRP videos and its clear that is what is enjoyable for criminals.

[MrSilky]

2 hours ago, Pazz said:

Frankly put, you can't always get what you want, and just because you weren't given the opportunity to spend an hour with a hostage does not make it indicative of poor roleplay standards. The fact is that no one gets a one-hundred percent say in how their scenarios play out. The second it is initiated, you are no longer in full control and you're on a dynamic playing field. If you have a hostage, your risk is assessed by law enforcement or other participants, and you either get the opportunity to have a lengthy dialogue or you get incapacitated based on an assessment made by players roleplaying as specialized units.

In that same vein, an officer initiating a traffic stop or an arrest can either have it go smoothly with a dialogue or get shot and wind up dead. I can't imagine all illegal roleplayers would be very satisfied if I then went to make a forum thread or went on an existing one and said "I imagine it was [random name] that made the call to shoot", that person then tells me it's not the case, and I say "haha, you're focusing on an accusation I directed at a very specific person and correcting me, this is what is wrong with criminals".

If you didn't want the focus to be on the misinformation that you decided to spread publicly, then you should have fact-checked before posting. Someone defending themselves and correcting incorrect information that you have shared painting them in a bad light are not ignoring the problem at hand, and it is most certainly not representative of the entire faction.  The fact that you're willing to throw such broad-brush statements around with a lack of self-awareness shows me that there would be no proper debate and only finger-pointing with an added flavor of "PD bad" here.

I'm very open to feedback on my faction. I can't speak for Osborn, but I'm certain he's very open to feedback on his faction. Yes, we enforce strict realism internally as far as internal portrayal goes, but I'm not going to make an enormous statement that we're "the highest standard". We establish and maintain standards and impose these on all members, but there are also criminal groups that do this. I firmly believe everyone has room for improvement, PD included, but as far as I'm concerned, I'll only listen to anyone who has the decency to care for both sides and does not just want to point fingers or brush a group of 100 players as "bad" because of someone defending themselves, and anyone who isn't being plain libelous.

It's frustrating that there may be people with solid and properly presented and substantiated concerns, arguments, and/or feedback that get buried in topics taken over by others who want to point fingers and call others bad instead of having a healthy debate, or even bury their own contributive points by going off the deep end.

My mother asked me how come I'm starting to get gray hairs, I ought to tell her it may be because of the seventeen "PD bad" topics every day. I have a new episode of Ahsoka to watch, ta x

I'll quote this and lock the thread as petty arguments have already started after this response.

If you have any issues with anything LSPD related, I offer an open-door policy as does Pazz. Our discords are @mrsilky and @zaeria. Or you are more than welcome to file an IC or OOC internal-affairs complaint here.

For suggestions, you are more than welcome to make them on the forum to get community feedback, but the moment you start painting an entire faction with the same brush and slander individual members, you lose all credibility.