The quality of roleplay, powergaming, and the usage of /do

[JasonG]

Let me just start off and say that this thread is not meant to be an argument, some know why I'm posting it but it is not directed towards any certain person or any certain situation. 

So I've noticed something quite scary and it's the misconceptions of the powergaming rule on this server. Allow me to blow your mind for a quick minute. /do success? -> is not necessary, ever. And I'm going to explain why.

First, lets start with the definition of the powergaming rule as per the server rules.

6.4 Powergaming
6.4.1 Forceful roleplay, that does not give the other player a chance to roleplay their own response is considered
powergaming. For example, a player may attempt to knock the other player unconscious by roleplaying it (using the
/ME command), however the other player must be given a chance to roleplay the outcome of that action.
6.4.2 Roleplay of unrealistic actions is another form of powergaming. For example, roleplay of having super powers, driving a
vehicle while your character is handcuffed, shooting a weapon while your character is injured.
6.4.3 It is not allowed to input false information or lie in /DO as this roleplay command is used to explain the facts of a
roleplay situation. For example, if your character is hiding a pistol and another player makes an attempt to search you, if
the outcome of the search is successful, you must use /DO to state the roleplay fact that the pistol had been found.
6.4.4 Forceful server commands, such as, /HANDCUFF or /MUG are exceptions to the powergame rule.

Powergaming has many, many, MANY definitions and it is one of the more complex roleplay terms. Powergaming is also the most often roleplay rule broke during situations and often the most misconceived. It's easy to powergame, honestly, and the more you roleplay the more chance that you'll encounter this rule either being broken or being bent. First let's take a look at a situation that is considered powergaming.

For all examples, Mark_Winterfield will be me. John_Doe will be the person I'm roleplaying with.

* Mark_Winterfield takes the man by the arm and throws him in the cell.
/solitary John_Doe 60
* Mark_Winterfield walks away.

THAT is powergaming. There was no allowance of time between the /me and the /solitary. How would you fix that?

Adding a /do success? is an option... but it's not necessary. I've always had a issue with this kind of roleplay because it opens the door for a crappy response. See below:

* Mark_Winterfield takes the man by the arm and throws him in the cell.
* Do I succeed? (( Mark_Winterfield ))
* No, John runs away (( John Doe )).

W..what?? OK. That is very basic. John ran away. Cool. How though? I had him by the arm. Tell me how a man in cuffs managed to run away. Surely it's possible, but how am I suppose to respond to that? How do I combat that without using /do causing even more of a headache. Let me blow your mind real quick. Let's try this whole roleplay situation but without using /do for success questions once. Let's see how it turns out.

* Mark_Winterfield takes the man by the arm and throws him in the cell.
* John_Doe brings his foot up and kicks Mark in the shin, running away.
* Mark_Winterfield stumbles backwards, reaching for his taser once he's comprehended the situation.
> Mark stuns John_Doe
* Mark_Winterfield takes the man by the arm tries to throw him in the cell again.
>Mark waits 30 seconds for a reply.
/solitary John_Doe 60
* Mark_Winterfield walks away.

That is quality roleplay. Quick and easy, to the point. But very descriptive. It described every action without using a single /do. /do should be used to describe an action or an object. Or for clarification on a subject. Not to ask questions about succeeding or not. Sure it works, but it's sloppy and lazy.

Let me clarify one thing: I will never send a /do asking if I succeed. Ever. When I send a /me, that is me trying to do that. If you have a problem with the way that I have done /me, you tell me in /do. Let's say that John Doe tried to kick me again after he was tased. This is how I would handle it. Check below:

* Mark_Winterfield takes the man by the arm and throws him in the cell.
* John_Doe brings his foot up and kicks Mark in the shin, running away.
* Mark_Winterfield stumbles backwards, reaching for his taser once he's comprehended the situation.
> Mark stuns John_Doe
* Mark_Winterfield takes the man by the arm tries to throw him in the cell again.
* John_Doe kicks Mark again.
* How would John have enough strength after being tased to kick Mark again? (( Mark_Winterfield ))
* John_Doe would comply.
/solitary John_Doe 60
* Mark_Winterfield walks away.

And that is how you should do it. Only one /do was needed, for clarification. There was no confusion, no misconceptions. Everything was described perfectly. Think of roleplay like writing a book, your characters will attempt actions that are combated by other characters. Everything needs to be described. There is no technical problem of using a /do to ask if you would succeed, however in my opinion it is very sloppy. I would like to see less people do this and more people start actually roleplaying every action. As long as you give ample time for someone to respond with a /me, skipping the /do would I succeed is not powergaming.

 

But that's just a theory... A FIL-

Edited January 6, 2019 by JasonG

[diplodorkk]

I like to roll dice in certain scenarios, to make things even. For instance if someone is robbing me, I might /Me attempts to snatch the gun away, /do do I succeed? And then roll dice, if I’m higher I take the gun, lower number I fail. Something I picked up from a scenario I had and loved the idea! It can work for many RP scenarios. 

[JasonG]

11 hours ago, diplodorkk said:

I like to roll dice in certain scenarios, to make things even. For instance if someone is robbing me, I might /Me attempts to snatch the gun away, /do do I succeed? And then roll dice, if I’m higher I take the gun, lower number I fail. Something I picked up from a scenario I had and loved the idea! It can work for many RP scenarios. 

I still can't wrap my head around dice RP to be honest with you. It creates a way to powergame easily. In your scenario, without dice RP, you would fail every time. Snatching the gun out of someone's hand who is robbing you breaks the fear RP rule and it is definitely powergaming. And to be able to 'dice' to bypass the rule is just beyond me.

[diplodorkk]

8 hours ago, JasonG said:

I still can't wrap my head around dice RP to be honest with you. It creates a way to powergame easily. In your scenario, without dice RP, you would fail every time. Snatching the gun out of someone's hand who is robbing you breaks the fear RP rule and it is definitely powergaming. And to be able to 'dice' to bypass the rule is just beyond me.

If my hands are up, he’s got one hand searching my pockets, other hand being held to me. I think an attempt to snatch the weapon wouldn’t be a fail everytime. But I understand what you’re trying to say, that’s why I always ask OOCly if they’re ok with dice before i actually do it.  Many people have agreed and some good RP has come out of it. It’s better than your typical, “hands up” get a 5 second countdown and get robbed or killed with no RP at all. 

[Vasquez]

8 hours ago, JasonG said:

Snatching the gun out of someone's hand who is robbing you breaks the fear RP rule and it is definitely powergaming. 

If I may.
I think it's important to notice the difference when it come to people talking about fear roleplay.

Fearing for your life, does not mean that you can't do any actions that further endangers your life.

For example, if someone got a gun aimed at you, while being very close to you, withdrawing a weapon and shooting would be a clear breach of the fear rule.
This is because in real life, you wouldn't try pulling a gun against someone who already got theirs drawn. The amount of times it take to withdraw your gun, aim and fire, would in real life, be far too risky, thus making the action a breach against the fear rp rule.

But, in real life, if somebody got a gun close to you, you might try to disarm the robber, if you think you can do it.
Now, while you can still fear for your life while disarming a person, at least its realistic as it's much faster than withdrawing a gun, therefore increasing your chance of survival. 

But, related to the topic;

I myself hate doing " /do Would I succed " as it feels like I'm forcing the roleplay towards a certain path.
But then again, we have players on the server that can't even tell you the difference between /do and /me, so /do would I succed is the result of a low level roleplay server.
If the general players roleplay improved, /do would I succed wouldn't even be necessary.

[JasonG]

15 minutes ago, Vasquez said:

If I may.
I think it's important to notice the difference when it come to people talking about fear roleplay.

Fearing for your life, does not mean that you can't do any actions that further endangers your life.

For example, if someone got a gun aimed at you, while being very close to you, withdrawing a weapon and shooting would be a clear breach of the fear rule.
This is because in real life, you wouldn't try pulling a gun against someone who already got theirs drawn. The amount of times it take to withdraw your gun, aim and fire, would in real life, be far too risky, thus making the action a breach against the fear rp rule.

But, in real life, if somebody got a gun close to you, you might try to disarm the robber, if you think you can do it.
Now, while you can still fear for your life while disarming a person, at least its realistic as it's much faster than withdrawing a gun, therefore increasing your chance of survival. 

But, related to the topic;

I myself hate doing " /do Would I succed " as it feels like I'm forcing the roleplay towards a certain path.
But then again, we have players on the server that can't even tell you the difference between /do and /me, so /do would I succed is the result of a low level roleplay server.
If the general players roleplay improved, /do would I succed wouldn't even be necessary.

If you don't have enough time to pull your gun you don't have enough time to disarm the robber. If someone tied to disarm me while I was aiming at them I would just /me would see you trying and shoot you or something of the sort. 

As for your last statement I agree with you 100%. Most people do it just for sake of convenience because most players can't roleplay properly. That's where the quiz and the people getting accepted come into question but that's for a whole other thread but I'm sure you know where I'm going with that. I made this thread because a member of PD who I won't name told me I was powergaming when I didn't use /do Would Mark succeed? after I roleplayed cuffing him (which you don't even need a /do if there hands are up per the powergaming rule)

Never will I use /do success. I agree it's convenient due to the player base but it's sloppy and lazy

[Vasquez]

1 hour ago, JasonG said:

If you don't have enough time to pull your gun you don't have enough time to disarm the robber. If someone tied to disarm me while I was aiming at them I would just /me would see you trying and shoot you or something of the sort. 

As for your last statement I agree with you 100%. Most people do it just for sake of convenience because most players can't roleplay properly. That's where the quiz and the people getting accepted come into question but that's for a whole other thread but I'm sure you know where I'm going with that. I made this thread because a member of PD who I won't name told me I was powergaming when I didn't use /do Would Mark succeed? after I roleplayed cuffing him (which you don't even need a /do if there hands are up per the powergaming rule)

Never will I use /do success. I agree it's convenient due to the player base but it's sloppy and lazy

There's a clear difference between pulling out a weapon and disarming someone.
Most players have their weapons located at either their back ( where the gun is script wised placed at the waist ) or at the front.
That means that the person would have to first reach for his weapon, put the safety off, and then take aim at the robber.
Obviously that motion would give the robber way too much time to react, and would most likely end wrong ( Which is why asspulling a gun when you are being robbed is against the fear rule )

But, disarming a robber with your hands, is much quicker, require less motion, and if you have trained enough, greatly reduces chances of injuries.
You can even take disarming classes, which is why I don't consider it to be against the fear rp rule to actually try to disarm a robber.
This video actually shows the whole disarming of a gun vs can it be done really well.
Note that both of these men in the video are Spec Ops, and have obviously had serious weapon training, meaning that their respond time is properly better than the average joe.

In real life, most robbers bail if they lose the upper hand of a situation, such as getting disarmed.
This is another funny video about a guy getting disarmed
 

Saying shit like "/me I saw you move so I Shoot you " is wack and what keeps the rp level of the server low.
Most robbers don't like to roleplay, and as soon as they think they are getting out roleplayed, they do some spec ops force shit and excuse it with " I was in the military ".
Don't be like them.

Anyway, just wanted to clear my point.

[JasonG]

2 hours ago, Vasquez said:

There's a clear difference between pulling out a weapon and disarming someone.
Most players have their weapons located at either their back ( where the gun is script wised placed at the waist ) or at the front.
That means that the person would have to first reach for his weapon, put the safety off, and then take aim at the robber.
Obviously that motion would give the robber way too much time to react, and would most likely end wrong ( Which is why asspulling a gun when you are being robbed is against the fear rule )

But, disarming a robber with your hands, is much quicker, require less motion, and if you have trained enough, greatly reduces chances of injuries.
You can even take disarming classes, which is why I don't consider it to be against the fear rp rule to actually try to disarm a robber.
This video actually shows the whole disarming of a gun vs can it be done really well.
Note that both of these men in the video are Spec Ops, and have obviously had serious weapon training, meaning that their respond time is properly better than the average joe.

In real life, most robbers bail if they lose the upper hand of a situation, such as getting disarmed.
This is another funny video about a guy getting disarmed
 

Saying shit like "/me I saw you move so I Shoot you " is wack and what keeps the rp level of the server low.
Most robbers don't like to roleplay, and as soon as they think they are getting out roleplayed, they do some spec ops force shit and excuse it with " I was in the military ".
Don't be like them.

Anyway, just wanted to clear my point.

I don't know man I know that me personally would not try something like that unless the shooter was distracted. I understand though how you might think that, but if I have a gun to someones head and I see them move quick without me telling them too I'm going to shoot. Of course that always leaves the possibility of a discussion in /do about whether or not he would've made it out in time. But dicing gives you more of a chance then you would have IRL for a situation like this IMO.

[Taedolf]

It's actually not very hard to disarm a person aiming a pistol at you, if they're in close range.  If they're aiming at your head, it's pretty easy to very quickly bob to the side while hitting their arteries in the wrist and the gun the opposite direction.  Sort of a criss-cross motion with your hands.  Chest is extremely risky for this, but head is quite easy.  Can also do this with knives and anything else someone might be holding, fun fact.

 

Anyway, on topic, the level of RP I find exhibited on a daily basis while playing is not up to this level.  This is why I, along with probably the other "good" RP'ers simply go by what this server does.  A lot of people are not here for character development beyond rivalries and increasing their bank assets, nor roleplay in general aside from cops and robbers.

Edited January 10, 2019 by Taedolf

[JasonG]

4 hours ago, Taedolf said:

It's actually not very hard to disarm a person aiming a pistol at you, if they're in close range.  If they're aiming at your head, it's pretty easy to very quickly bob to the side while hitting their arteries in the wrist and the gun the opposite direction.  Sort of a criss-cross motion with your hands.  Chest is extremely risky for this, but head is quite easy.  Can also do this with knives and anything else someone might be holding, fun fact.

 

Anyway, on topic, the level of RP I find exhibited on a daily basis while playing is not up to this level.  This is why I, along with probably the other "good" RP'ers simply go by what this server does.  A lot of people are not here for character development beyond rivalries and increasing their bank assets, nor roleplay in general aside from cops and robbers.

Regardless, resorting to dice RP to figure out whether or not you're capable is silly in my opinion. But I do agree with you. However when I first joined this server it was advertised as medium-heavy RP and having an application system like LSRP enforced that belief. Although that quickly proved to just be a formality because apparently they accept just about anybody.

[Tylergo20]

On 1/5/2019 at 9:28 PM, JasonG said:

Let me just start off and say that this thread is not meant to be an argument, some know why I'm posting it but it is not directed towards any certain person or any certain situation. 

So I've noticed something quite scary and it's the misconceptions of the powergaming rule on this server. Allow me to blow your mind for a quick minute. /do success? -> is not necessary, ever. And I'm going to explain why.

First, lets start with the definition of the powergaming rule as per the server rules.

6.4 Powergaming
6.4.1 Forceful roleplay, that does not give the other player a chance to roleplay their own response is considered
powergaming. For example, a player may attempt to knock the other player unconscious by roleplaying it (using the
/ME command), however the other player must be given a chance to roleplay the outcome of that action.
6.4.2 Roleplay of unrealistic actions is another form of powergaming. For example, roleplay of having super powers, driving a
vehicle while your character is handcuffed, shooting a weapon while your character is injured.
6.4.3 It is not allowed to input false information or lie in /DO as this roleplay command is used to explain the facts of a
roleplay situation. For example, if your character is hiding a pistol and another player makes an attempt to search you, if
the outcome of the search is successful, you must use /DO to state the roleplay fact that the pistol had been found.
6.4.4 Forceful server commands, such as, /HANDCUFF or /MUG are exceptions to the powergame rule.

Powergaming has many, many, MANY definitions and it is one of the more complex roleplay terms. Powergaming is also the most often roleplay rule broke during situations and often the most misconceived. It's easy to powergame, honestly, and the more you roleplay the more chance that you'll encounter this rule either being broken or being bent. First let's take a look at a situation that is considered powergaming.

For all examples, Mark_Winterfield will be me. John_Doe will be the person I'm roleplaying with.

* Mark_Winterfield takes the man by the arm and throws him in the cell.
/solitary John_Doe 60
* Mark_Winterfield walks away.

THAT is powergaming. There was no allowance of time between the /me and the /solitary. How would you fix that?

Adding a /do success? is an option... but it's not necessary. I've always had a issue with this kind of roleplay because it opens the door for a crappy response. See below:

* Mark_Winterfield takes the man by the arm and throws him in the cell.
* Do I succeed? (( Mark_Winterfield ))
* No, John runs away (( John Doe )).

W..what?? OK. That is very basic. John ran away. Cool. How though? I had him by the arm. Tell me how a man in cuffs managed to run away. Surely it's possible, but how am I suppose to respond to that? How do I combat that without using /do causing even more of a headache. Let me blow your mind real quick. Let's try this whole roleplay situation but without using /do for success questions once. Let's see how it turns out.

* Mark_Winterfield takes the man by the arm and throws him in the cell.
* John_Doe brings his foot up and kicks Mark in the shin, running away.
* Mark_Winterfield stumbles backwards, reaching for his taser once he's comprehended the situation.
> Mark stuns John_Doe
* Mark_Winterfield takes the man by the arm tries to throw him in the cell again.
>Mark waits 30 seconds for a reply.
/solitary John_Doe 60
* Mark_Winterfield walks away.

That is quality roleplay. Quick and easy, to the point. But very descriptive. It described every action without using a single /do. /do should be used to describe an action or an object. Or for clarification on a subject. Not to ask questions about succeeding or not. Sure it works, but it's sloppy and lazy.

Let me clarify one thing: I will never send a /do asking if I succeed. Ever. When I send a /me, that is me trying to do that. If you have a problem with the way that I have done /me, you tell me in /do. Let's say that John Doe tried to kick me again after he was tased. This is how I would handle it. Check below:

* Mark_Winterfield takes the man by the arm and throws him in the cell.
* John_Doe brings his foot up and kicks Mark in the shin, running away.
* Mark_Winterfield stumbles backwards, reaching for his taser once he's comprehended the situation.
> Mark stuns John_Doe
* Mark_Winterfield takes the man by the arm tries to throw him in the cell again.
* John_Doe kicks Mark again.
* How would John have enough strength after being tased to kick Mark again? (( Mark_Winterfield ))
* John_Doe would comply.
/solitary John_Doe 60
* Mark_Winterfield walks away.

And that is how you should do it. Only one /do was needed, for clarification. There was no confusion, no misconceptions. Everything was described perfectly. Think of roleplay like writing a book, your characters will attempt actions that are combated by other characters. Everything needs to be described. There is no technical problem of using a /do to ask if you would succeed, however in my opinion it is very sloppy. I would like to see less people do this and more people start actually roleplaying every action. As long as you give ample time for someone to respond with a /me, skipping the /do would I succeed is not powergaming.

 

But that's just a theory... A FIL-

DUDE that is deep and accurate. I like it.

[Tylergo20]

15 hours ago, Vasquez said:

There's a clear difference between pulling out a weapon and disarming someone.
Most players have their weapons located at either their back ( where the gun is script wised placed at the waist ) or at the front.
That means that the person would have to first reach for his weapon, put the safety off, and then take aim at the robber.
Obviously that motion would give the robber way too much time to react, and would most likely end wrong ( Which is why asspulling a gun when you are being robbed is against the fear rule )

But, disarming a robber with your hands, is much quicker, require less motion, and if you have trained enough, greatly reduces chances of injuries.
You can even take disarming classes, which is why I don't consider it to be against the fear rp rule to actually try to disarm a robber.
This video actually shows the whole disarming of a gun vs can it be done really well.
Note that both of these men in the video are Spec Ops, and have obviously had serious weapon training, meaning that their respond time is properly better than the average joe.

In real life, most robbers bail if they lose the upper hand of a situation, such as getting disarmed.
This is another funny video about a guy getting disarmed
 

Saying shit like "/me I saw you move so I Shoot you " is wack and what keeps the rp level of the server low.
Most robbers don't like to roleplay, and as soon as they think they are getting out roleplayed, they do some spec ops force shit and excuse it with " I was in the military ".
Don't be like them.

Anyway, just wanted to clear my point.

Its a cool idea. and yes. you can evade it. but when in getting robbed by I dont know gangs in the game there are 2 or 4 of them and you cant do this and all they what to do is give me or car. and start a count down. so you cant ask or do anything and then if you dont respond in there liking they just shoot. or you say

/do reaches in pocket to grab keys

/me drop keys by accident (pretending to fear for life and then by this time I get shot because im stalling the RP situation) then they take off

 

now if they said something like

 

/do I pickup drooped keys (then yes I would of unlocked the car for them because I droped keys on ground but I am at hospital and they just used bobby pins anyways)

[Vasquez]

7 hours ago, Tylergo20 said:

Its a cool idea. and yes. you can evade it. but when in getting robbed by I dont know gangs in the game there are 2 or 4 of them and you cant do this and all they what to do is give me or car. and start a count down. so you cant ask or do anything and then if you dont respond in there liking they just shoot. or you say

/do reaches in pocket to grab keys

/me drop keys by accident (pretending to fear for life and then by this time I get shot because im stalling the RP situation) then they take off

 

now if they said something like

 

/do I pickup drooped keys (then yes I would of unlocked the car for them because I droped keys on ground but I am at hospital and they just used bobby pins anyways)

Aye, its sad that most robbers don't really want to roleplay ( As you said, they count down and basically shoot you if you ain't fast enough to type or respond )
Hopefully we will get rid of those trash players and at one point increase the overall roleplay, so stuff like above could be roleplayed.

[Tylergo20]

2 hours ago, Vasquez said:

Aye, its sad that most robbers don't really want to roleplay ( As you said, they count down and basically shoot you if you ain't fast enough to type or respond )
Hopefully we will get rid of those trash players and at one point increase the overall roleplay, so stuff like above could be roleplayed.

What I think should be done is have a training server. Or a 2nd server were we have a selected group of people play on. Just to make totorials. And how to roleplay videos. There is already someone doing it. But have some really experienced rp people make the videos like had to hand roberies and situations. Have people watch them. And say this is the standered we like to see. Now we all know some of us are not that good at RP but it gives people a chance to come up with stuff that's realistic. But it will slow down on the killing and slow down, hand up search kill leave and have a proper scenarios. 

 

I do beleave that when you die you should be stuck in the hospital for 15 min. And tell the "dr what happend for a record on how you died." And it will help people calm down.and if it was breach of rules a admin that is there can say ok. Post on forums your evidence and your report number is (what ever number) that way there can also now be some organization. 

 

 

[Balastas]

All of criminals talking about FearRP like you can never win a fight against a gun in real life IS JUST BULLSHIT. This server as I said many of times is FAIL RP. All criminals are crying that how hard is to be a criminal. when in fact even robberies are their your side. On this server once you're on gun point you lost, that's it. In real life robberies are always messy, fast, even unsuccessful since everyone is stressed everything might go bad, even a robber might drop his gun on the ground on accident and guess what he's fucked. On GTA is just too clean yet every criminal is crying how shit is to be a criminal. EVERYTHING except surrendering is fear rp for this server.

And looking from psychological side of human if you're under stressful situation there's 3 things what human can go trough:

1. Most common that person will obey orders

2. Person might go into a shock condition

3. A person can go wild and try to defend himself even if he has almost or none chance to survive 

EVEN THIS bouncers didn't even had a fucking gun 

 

Edited January 12, 2019 by Balastas

[Terrixfull]

It's not just the criminals. For instance you can't do the simplest of things or even attempt if you are under arrest. Majority of cops are not willing to RP at all. Not to mention 95% of cops on this server fail rp on regular basis. You ask how?

Scenario 1:

A man is lying on the ground, wounded or injured. You see a cop and you try signaling him that you need help. Cop just ignores and passes by. I am not even talking about crisis situations because the lights were not on. So they blatantly ignore you and pass by, even if it was an emergency cop could easily radio it over how a man is injured there and there.

There are also situations where you can't even attempt to roleplay against them because they will cry how that is powergaming or some weird thing.

Scenario 2:

You are alone with the officer while his partner or other unit does not have a visual of you. Cop goes to frisk you while you are /down and with your hands in the air.

> Police officer attempts to frisk the suspect.

> Suspect waits until officer has his hands near him and hits the officer in the head using his head.

> Suspect swiftly turns around and hits the Officer with his right hand and grabs his pistol.

In many cases a PD would just type in /me uses its skill to dodge the hit (even though he couldn't expect it, but hey, cop reflexes are near God) or just type in /b Powergaming, eh? See you on the forums.

 

My main point is, people do stupid things all the time and there are a lot of videos of it but sometimes I feel like the whole mentality goes against you. Robbers and cops are the same. They have the upper hand at first and then it is done. Unless you are lucky you are either arrested or robbed.

 

Disclaimer: I am not saying you should escape from the arrest all the time or something, but you should be allowed to try and roleplay things like that because people do attempt them regardless of the outcome. They either make it or fail but they still try and trying here is not allowed because it is percieved. as "rule-breaking".

Something like this couldn't be possible on this server because it would be considered as powergaming. Again, I am not saying success ratio should be 100%, I am saying you should be allowed to try things like this, but you aren't.

 

Edited January 12, 2019 by Terrixfull
Added youtube video

[alexalex303]

Before this turned into a fearRP/PD complaint thread, there were some interesting points about roleplaying without /do.

I come from SAMP RP, and using /do like it's being used here would've had you laughed off the server. Roleplay just flowed naturally, without having to ask for resistance. In the case of a cop trying to cuff someone, it would go like this:

/me reaches for the man's left arm, attempting to pull it behind his back
at this point, if the guy wanted to resist, he could do
/me attempts to pull his arm away, struggling against the officer

whereas here, it's common place for it to go like this:

/me reaches for the man's left arm, pulling it behind his back
/do success?
and if the guy wanted to resist, he'd be like
/do I would try to stop you

I personally highly prefer the /do-less variant, however when trying to use it, I received complaints in /b about powergaming, and frankly, I don't think a few people can change the way the entire server roleplays. 

For a change like this to occur, it would have to be wanted and enforced by the admin team, who seems to like the /do system. @JasonG

Edited January 12, 2019 by Darnell

[JasonG]

4 hours ago, Darnell said:

Before this turned into a fearRP/PD complaint thread, there were some interesting points about roleplaying without /do.

I come from SAMP RP, and using /do like it's being used here would've had you laughed off the server. Roleplay just flowed naturally, without having to ask for resistance. In the case of a cop trying to cuff someone, it would go like this:

/me reaches for the man's left arm, attempting to pull it behind his back
at this point, if the guy wanted to resist, he could do
/me attempts to pull his arm away, struggling against the officer

whereas here, it's common place for it to go like this:

/me reaches for the man's left arm, pulling it behind his back
/do success?
and if the guy wanted to resist, he'd be like
/do I would try to stop you

I personally highly prefer the /do-less variant, however when trying to use it, I received complaints in /b about powergaming, and frankly, I don't think a few people can change the way the entire server roleplays. 

For a change like this to occur, it would have to be wanted and enforced by the admin team, who seems to like the /do system. @JasonG

I am so glad that you wrote this post. Thank you very much. I too played a SA:MP server where if I used /do success? i would've been laughed off.  Unfortunately, an admin (I won't name him) told me that my roleplay quality was "lacking" because I didn't use /do's for that. This was right after a member of the PD accused me of powergaming because I didn't (even though /cuff is opted out according to the PG rule on here) and I gave him ample time to respond. The thing is, people on here don't understand that if I do /me cuffs the man and then do /cuff... that's not powergaming. Even if it wasn't opted out in the rule itself. If they resisted, all I had to do was /uncuff them and we would've continued from there, you know what I'm trying to say?

It's hard to explain but it surprised me that he was so quick to claim PG when it really wasn't, not like I /cuff'd and immediately /solitary'd

 

So better roleplay standards will always trickle down from top to bottom, and it seems like we have a long wait on our hands.

Edited January 13, 2019 by JasonG

[Jethro Bookens]

To the OP, I just want to say that was something outstanding to point out and give examples of. This is something that would be a superiorly beneficial 101 scenario for the community to take a look at.

I often find people are trapped in horrible RP habits, rather than ethical or more so logical RP functionality. It promotes creativity, and also thwarts the feeling of repetitive RP scenarios with the same dialogue to use your approach. This means of interaction could help a lot with many of the negative RP complaints I have seen.

A basic understanding, yet one that still seems to go over the head of many.

If one person uses /me to perform an action, it's much cleaner and produces more RP for the response to be in /me until an actual question about a scene or scenario must be addressed. For instance relating to the senses, a /do works well. But it does not require(essentially) a /do if someone uses /me to neglect an action against them with one of their own. A /do seems mostly to be used as a means to speed up RP and trim the fat that is the actual emoted RP. It's best used for 3rd person references to help the player understand what their character would see, feel, ect.  Logically.

Though, rules are rules.

Edited January 31, 2019 by Jethro Bookens

[Andor]

On 1/8/2019 at 6:31 PM, diplodorkk said:

I like to roll dice in certain scenarios, to make things even. For instance if someone is robbing me, I might /Me attempts to snatch the gun away, /do do I succeed? And then roll dice, if I’m higher I take the gun, lower number I fail. Something I picked up from a scenario I had and loved the idea! It can work for many RP scenarios. 

I always do Dice RP in situations where we are equal. 
For example if I attempt to knee a man as he attempts a takedown. 

In certain situations it doesnt make sense. But mostly wrestle situations you cant PG being the strongest baddest person of all time all the time. 

[JasonG]

On 1/31/2019 at 11:04 AM, Andor said:

I always do Dice RP in situations where we are equal. 
For example if I attempt to knee a man as he attempts a takedown. 

In certain situations it doesnt make sense. But mostly wrestle situations you cant PG being the strongest baddest person of all time all the time. 

unpopular opinion: I've never dice RP'd, it's just lazy.

[Denni]

On 2/3/2019 at 4:27 AM, JasonG said:

unpopular opinion: I've never dice RP'd, it's just lazy.

Dice RP is good. Even you don't know the outcome! 

[Andor]

On 2/3/2019 at 5:27 AM, JasonG said:

unpopular opinion: I've never dice RP'd, it's just lazy.

It kills powergaming. Soooo thats good and forces you to adept a unknown outcome

[Brixton]

Some good points here but another good point I will add:

Everyone on this server is from countries all over the US. You guys cant EVER expect us to reach the level of quality roleplay we all on this thread want. I am a hardcore roleplayer and I have been roleplaying since 2009. If you dont /do Would I be able too? Or whatever you say then 9/10 you and the other person your roleplaying with will just sit there aimlessly as:

A) Hes waiting for you to perform another action.

B) The one who performed the action is waiting for the other person to respond.

 

Given the history of the roleplaying and how it truly works. If we just do the example of roleplay after roleplay without asking succession someone can get reported for Powergaming and actually win as its how roleplay is viewed and has been viewed since the beginning of time. 

 

Dont get me wrong, I am probably the biggest and #1 fan of roleplay being like you guys are saying, but realistically I dont see it happening.

Edited February 4, 2019 by ParkerTM

[alexalex303]

17 minutes ago, ParkerTM said:

Some good points here but another good point I will add:

Everyone on this server is from countries all over the US. You guys cant EVER expect us to reach the level of quality roleplay we all on this thread want. I am a hardcore roleplayer and I have been roleplaying since 2009. If you dont /do Would I be able too? Or whatever you say then 9/10 you and the other person your roleplaying with will just sit there aimlessly as:

A) Hes waiting for you to perform another action.

B) The one who performed the action is waiting for the other person to respond.

 

Given the history of the roleplaying and how it truly works. If we just do the example of roleplay after roleplay without asking succession someone can get reported for Powergaming and actually win as its how roleplay is viewed and has been viewed since the beginning of time. 

 

Dont get me wrong, I am probably the biggest and #1 fan of roleplay being like you guys are saying, but realistically I dont see it happening.

I disagree wholeheartedly with your claim that roleplaying in that way would make it hard for people not to powergame.

There are entire SAMP communities, some going on 10 years now that have been successfully enforcing that standard of roleplaying, in an international server just like ours.

I like to think that the vast majority of people do possess common sense, and, if playing in our community, have a decent grasp of the english language, as such, I find it very hard to believe that roleplay such as the following might be confusing:

/me extends his hand out and attempts to snatch the hat off the man's head

I find it very hard to believe that the person that is the target of the action would wait for me to perform another action, instead of responding. 

However, your post does wonderfully illustrate the hurdles of implementing such roleplaying here, as the few people that tried were constantly being accused of powergaming, just because the victims were unfamiliar with the roleplaying style, and preferred the much more simple /do success.