200AP

[hrxvey]

Remove this 200AP bullshit, it is the definition of OP, I understand that PD/SD are meant to win in these situations but 300AP is just excessive. Try killing someone with 300HP :DDD

 

I feel a better fix would be to lower the max to around 150AP or 125AP (100ap if you're feeling nice ) considering that SWAT get access to carbines and some get the special carbine mk2 which are much better guns than an ak 

Edited August 17, 2022 by hrxvey

[Travisss]

+1

[Harley]

SED and Metro have 200AP, and that is only when actively deployed, passive deployment, max will be 150AP.

Edited August 17, 2022 by Harley

[hrxvey]

Just now, Harley said:

SED and Metro have 200AP

300 HP then

[hrxvey]

20 minutes ago, IAmTurtle said:

Stop with the pd/sd hate boner. Learn the facts first before y’all start making accusations. 
 

cops should have the upper hand in raw fire power. Crims are the ones who have the creativity to find a way to get the upper hand, yet y’all  repeat the same predictable things. 
 

also maybe not everything is about shooting. And then cops would not be wearing the armor they do all the time

I can say personally that it is very rare that the faction I am a part of shoots cops, and I can't remember the last time we had a situation that ended up with us having a huge shootout with PD or SD (I could be mistaken if it was recently), in fact we encourage our members that shooting at LEO's is the last thing we do in any situation.

 

I think the "PD/SD hate boner" comment is extremely uncalled for as my point is very valid. "cops should have the upper hand in raw firepower" they do. they have access to carbines, MK2 weapons, snipers, MARKSMAN RIFLES (literally a rifle that can be used at range or up close with a 4 hit kill). And for vehicles: TARVS, insurgents, helicopters and all the other swat cars that are available. So I would say even if the SWAT divisions got a decrease in AP they would still have a huge advantage when it comes to raw firepower.

 

I will even say that I think these things I have listed are completely fine and make sense for you to have them, however when 3 people with 50 calibre pistols can't take on one guy with a special carbine mk2 without at least 2 of them going down, then that is an issue. SED/METRO have 3x the HP of someone without Kevlar. If I'm honest, the only people I see shooting cops are when they return fire, or people who are inexperienced criminals on the server and aren't aware of the power in which the police possess. :D. I am purely asking for SED/METRO's Kevlar to be limited to 125AP (THEY STILL HAVE THE UPPER HAND). I am not making this suggestion out of spite or anger, I just think that this is something that would make the engagements more fun and have more variety. 

 

I would also like to bring up the statement of "not everything is about shooting", if you think that crims enjoy shooting PD/SD you need to take a step back and think about the circumstances of doing so. This follows with: losing anything and everything illegal that they have on them/in the car at the time, 20k+ in fines, and also 5 hours in prison. I would encourage you to try playing on the criminal side of things for yourself before you begin commenting on it. (if you were a crim in the council days it doesn't count as you had 80 man freqs :D) 

[Ranger]

Personally I wouldn't be opposed to this, I believe that due to the scarcity of criminal role players ordering and using armor it may show beneficial to lower the armor points for PD/SD whether it's a 'for the time being' change or a permanent one. However, if LEO armor points drop, I believe that weapon prices should NOT lower/raise, because then after a few weeks it will inevitably be the "LEO don't have enough armor to combat the amount of armed criminals that are running about!" argument.

Below I will touch on each point raised by OP, and (I don't think I need to say this but I will), this is my solo opinion as a community member, not as a staff member or member of the LSPD.

SWAT/SED Armor:

Speaking as a member of SWAT myself, I do still believe that divisions like SWAT and SED should of course have the highest armor option(s), as out of anyone in any department, as those are the divisions that often insert themselves into situations where they may face high lethal force and be outnumbered. Naturally, they should have higher AP armor paired with their weapons - they are meant to be the division(s)/unit(s) to end situations like that (to the best of their abilities of course).

(To preface, for those who don't know, SWAT and SED have two (2) 'versions' of patrol, PASSIVE is when they are on standard patrol and ACTIVE is when they put on 'their gear' for operations for situations that call for it.)

SWAT/SED Passive (current): 150 AP
SWAT/SED Active (current): 150 AP
SWAT/SED Passive (suggested): 100AP (highest AP a criminal can order armor for)
SWAT/SED Active (suggested): 125AP (25 AP higher than above)

The reason the "Passive" uniform should still be 100AP, is due to the fact that whether they are active or passive, they will still respond to high threat scenes where high lethal force may be present (and we don't consider every situation (such as a bank robbery) to be a situation to go 'active' for), so they should of course still have somewhat of a higher hand, being that 'team' that trains for situations such as those and inserts themselves into it if it makes sense.

The 'Active' armor should be 125AP, because if we put those uniforms on, we are 85% of the time inserting ourselves into 'one of those' situations.

General Officers:

Speaking for standard patrol officers, they may find themselves in some situations such as those more scarcely (as they of course do general duties as patrol officers and not big bad SWAT bois), I don't see a reason to patrol in anything higher than 50-75AP armor. If this is done, three things may come of it;

• 1: GOB (General Patrol) officers will need to be more careful of which situation(s) they insert themselves in due to the possible threat of life (i.e waiting for SWAT to arrive at a Bank or Store Robbery before 'going in')
• 2: GOB (General Patrol) officers will implement calling units such as SWAT/SED more frequently - giving people in those divisions more 'action' and RP interaction(s)
• 3: There won't be a constant predicament of 'every' officer running around with the highest AP number that criminals can order (again, doubling back to #2)

Regarding SWAT & GOB armor, there will be times that MANY officers even go on patrol without ANY armor on at all, including myself.

It's hard for me to put a decent 'balance' in my opinion, as there will inevitably people who disagree with SWAT/SED's use cases and armory (armor, weapons, etc), but heyho, it's worth at least hearing the opinion.

Weapons:

   - I do not know the exact weapon damage values as per the server defines them, I'm just doing math with the calculator app with knowledge available to anyone :^)
   - References are linked in each weapon name.
   - I will not talk about Pump shotgun, Pistol(s), or SMG & Micro as those are available to anyone.

I do understand the 'issue' with weapons available to LEO, but, (and I hate to be cliché), it's what is realistic for the department(s) to have and I don't think there is a large-scale / game breaking issue with the weapons allowed. I'll briefly go over a few weapons;

• Carbine Rifle
  • 32 Damage, 65 Fire Rate, and 55 Accuracy. Looking at the AK, it's 2 damage points higher than the AK (AK fire rate = 60).
  • Looking at the damage numbers POST weapon damage update, the AK was boosted by 50%, and the Carbine by 20% (AK=45 DMG, Carbine=38.4 DMG)
    • The reason it seems like carbine is better than the AK, is because you are shooting an AK at someone who has armor, compared to LEO shooting at someone with (normally) no armor, so inb4 "4 sHoT cArBiNe", think of the differences with armored v non-armored.
       
• Marksman Rifle & Sniper Rifle
  • It's hard to put these in comparison of another weapon, as there are about 2 (that I OOCly know of) sniper rifles (Heavy & Standard) on the server owned by non-LEO.
  • The use cases are restricted, and only members of SWAT/SED can use them - even at that, it's restricted as to how many can be out at once, and the proper usage in non-hostage related situations is rare.
    • The usage of the sniper rifle actually being used is the rarest I've seen in PD, I've only seen it used ~4-5 times in my year in the faction.
       
• Special Carbine (G36C)*
  • To make this next statement abundantly clear, this is not meant to be a "yOuRe WrOnG" to the OP comment --- the LSPD/SD/DOC does not have access to any MK2 weapons what-so-ever.
  • I won't go too into details, if you click the hyperlink you can see it's ranked higher than the AK by 3 weapons. I personally hate having the Special Carbine in our armory, not because of it's power, but for immersion purposes (it's damage can be argued, but so can 30-man banks and lab shootout scenes which we involve ourselves in from time to time and us needing to escalate our end for those).
    • To those who don't have knowledge of OOC ATU (Anti-Terror Units), the G36C is used by the GSG-9 (a German Anti Terror Unit). I despise being a representation of the LAPD using a weapon utilized by a German ATU. Personally, I'd like to see the Carbine Rifle MKII be implemented, and have the damage dropped to the same level as the carbine mainly for immersion/aesthetic.
  • At that, we also have heavy restrictions on using the Special Carbine - we do not allow members of SWAT (I cannot speak for SED as their protocols are different) to carry Special Carbines on standard patrol due to it's statistics. 

Vehicle(s):

I don't have much to say about the vehicles, SWAT/SED have protocols in place relating to when a specific vehicle can be pulled out or not. Additionally - the Insurgent (no gun) is the only vehicle with bulletproof tires (no bulletproof windows), and the TARV is the only vehicle with bulletproof windows (non bulletproof tires). Normally in most situations, those vehicles will be pulled out for operations such as drug lab raids/explosions or DOC HVT transports, where even at that, people won't try to intervene due to the chances of breaking their friends out < getting caught doing so.

The only personal PAST distaste towards vehicles (and this is the rarest vehicle that gets used, I've seen it 2 times in my year tenure in the LSPD and one other time outside of being in the LSPD) is the usage of the Insurgent 50 cal. It's not used a lot, and we require heavy permissions, so the use case is EXTREMELY I cannot stress this enough EXTREMELY limited (you'd have a higher chance to see 12 different 1 of 1 supers in a day than to see this). Even with it being pulled out, it's meant to only be a deterrent and 'persuade' people to leave an area/not get involved. The TL;DR, is that in my opinion LEO should ONLY use what is accessible, nothing where only one/two ranks in the department can pull it out.

 

[Harveyyy]

Thank you @Ranger for providing a detailed explanation regarding this topic. You've basically covered everything. 

I was part of SED, we only used 200AP during active high threat situations, such as responding to gang shootouts. We are not allowed to patrol with that at all. It's IC protocol but also to make it fair for crims. I've personally seen partnered SED units rollin' with 100AP and if the unit was solo, they can use 150AP, however, for fairness, in most cases, they only use 100AP.

For GOB, it's a mix between 50AP and 100AP, but they are limited to what guns they can use. 

 

@IAmTurtle you shouldn't be saying things like "stop with this PD/SD hate boner", this clearly doesn't contribute or add anything to the topic, if anything, its gonna flame a PDvsCrim convo. If you don't have anything positive to add, at least don't say anything, thanks! 

Edited August 18, 2022 by Harveyyy

[khlifa]

8 hours ago, Ranger said:

SWAT/SED Passive (current): 150 AP
SWAT/SED Active (current): 150 AP
SWAT/SED Passive (suggested): 100AP (highest AP a criminal can order armor for)
SWAT/SED Active (suggested): 125AP (25 AP higher than above)

+1

[Requiem]

-1

As a member of SWAT command for PD, I believe that the numbers and policies IC are balanced properly in their current state. In no realistic instance would crims try to fight a SWAT team and expect to win or even have a chance to. Regardless, changing the armor values for SWAT specifically will not change the outcome of most situations. It is SWATs job to insert themselves INTO shootouts and high risk situations where most often we realize that we may be out numbered. Only deserving we have high AP values and weaponry to back it up. 

Edited August 18, 2022 by Bill Breacher

[Requiem]

7 minutes ago, Praetorian said:

You are never outnumbered lol. Biggest faction 3 times over anyone else. What are you on about Swat command? 

Outnumbered referring to the SWAT team specifically. The SWAT team only consists of about 15 members, all of which are on extremely different time zones with different schedules IRL. Only ever about 3-5 SWAT members normally on at PEAK times, unless we have a prescheduled in game event such as weekly training for our team. 

SWAT Command is the supervisory command team of SWAT. They lead the team, create policy and provide orders to lower ranking SWAT officers. 

As others say quite often, perhaps try playing as an LEO, and specifically SWAT before making unfounded claims or saying things like "you are never outnumbered". I have been in the SWAT team for over a year now and I can assure you that from my experience, we are almost always outnumbered. 

Edited August 18, 2022 by Bill Breacher

[alexalex303]

24 minutes ago, Bill Breacher said:

Outnumbered referring to the SWAT team specifically. The SWAT team only consists of about 15 members, all of which are on extremely different time zones with different schedules IRL. Only ever about 3-5 SWAT members normally on at PEAK times, unless we have a prescheduled in game event such as weekly training for our team. 

SWAT Command is the supervisory command team of SWAT. They lead the team, create policy and provide orders to lower ranking SWAT officers. 

As others say quite often, perhaps try playing as an LEO, and specifically SWAT before making unfounded claims or saying things like "you are never outnumbered". I have been in the SWAT team for over a year now and I can assure you that from my experience, we are almost always outnumbered. 

The SWAT team does not operate by itself, and will be backed by the other 90 members of the LSPD, and if the situation is big enough, SED and SD (+90 more people). The reality is that other than the first few seconds of a situation starting, law enforcement is never outnumbered (that is good and realistic).

[hrxvey]

2 hours ago, Bill Breacher said:

Outnumbered referring to the SWAT team specifically. The SWAT team only consists of about 15 members, all of which are on extremely different time zones with different schedules IRL. Only ever about 3-5 SWAT members normally on at PEAK times, unless we have a prescheduled in game event such as weekly training for our team. 

SWAT Command is the supervisory command team of SWAT. They lead the team, create policy and provide orders to lower ranking SWAT officers. 

As others say quite often, perhaps try playing as an LEO, and specifically SWAT before making unfounded claims or saying things like "you are never outnumbered". I have been in the SWAT team for over a year now and I can assure you that from my experience, we are almost always outnumbered. 

I do agree that SWAT should have the firepower over the criminals but surely its more fun and adds more of an adrenaline kick even for you guys when there is a slight chance that you won't win in this situation. When you put yourselves into a 5vs10 situation, if you know full well that you are going to win because you have triple the HP of the other players, then that just completely takes the fun out of the game for me. I think that if you are going to say that SWAT would realistically win in every situation, your team should be better at shooting/positioning themselves rather than just having a fast track route of 200AP

Edited August 18, 2022 by hrxvey

[GR_Seb]

16 hours ago, Harley said:

SED and Metro have 200AP, and that is only when actively deployed, passive deployment, max will be 150AP.

That's not true. METRO has 150 armor on active deployment.  We have specific regulations and we need METRO Command approval to get permission for the 200 armor. Just to clarify, I've only used the 200 armor 4 times since we ever got em.   hrxvey

Edited August 18, 2022 by Papadakis

[lSpixsy]

+1 cba fighting tanks

[Suken]

30 minutes ago, lSpixsy said:

+1 cba fighting tanks

+1 man literally said it all in 1 word / +1 of what ranger said also he literally mentioned it all in one reply

 

14 hours ago, Ranger said:

Personally I wouldn't be opposed to this, I believe that due to the scarcity of criminal role players ordering and using armor it may show beneficial to lower the armor points for PD/SD whether it's a 'for the time being' change or a permanent one. However, if LEO armor points drop, I believe that weapon prices should NOT lower/raise, because then after a few weeks it will inevitably be the "LEO don't have enough armor to combat the amount of armed criminals that are running about!" argument.

Below I will touch on each point raised by OP, and (I don't think I need to say this but I will), this is my solo opinion as a community member, not as a staff member or member of the LSPD.

SWAT/SED Armor:

Speaking as a member of SWAT myself, I do still believe that divisions like SWAT and SED should of course have the highest armor option(s), as out of anyone in any department, as those are the divisions that often insert themselves into situations where they may face high lethal force and be outnumbered. Naturally, they should have higher AP armor paired with their weapons - they are meant to be the division(s)/unit(s) to end situations like that (to the best of their abilities of course).

(To preface, for those who don't know, SWAT and SED have two (2) 'versions' of patrol, PASSIVE is when they are on standard patrol and ACTIVE is when they put on 'their gear' for operations for situations that call for it.)

SWAT/SED Passive (current): 150 AP
SWAT/SED Active (current): 150 AP
SWAT/SED Passive (suggested): 100AP (highest AP a criminal can order armor for)
SWAT/SED Active (suggested): 125AP (25 AP higher than above)

The reason the "Passive" uniform should still be 100AP, is due to the fact that whether they are active or passive, they will still respond to high threat scenes where high lethal force may be present (and we don't consider every situation (such as a bank robbery) to be a situation to go 'active' for), so they should of course still have somewhat of a higher hand, being that 'team' that trains for situations such as those and inserts themselves into it if it makes sense.

The 'Active' armor should be 125AP, because if we put those uniforms on, we are 85% of the time inserting ourselves into 'one of those' situations.

General Officers:

Speaking for standard patrol officers, they may find themselves in some situations such as those more scarcely (as they of course do general duties as patrol officers and not big bad SWAT bois), I don't see a reason to patrol in anything higher than 50-75AP armor. If this is done, three things may come of it;

• 1: GOB (General Patrol) officers will need to be more careful of which situation(s) they insert themselves in due to the possible threat of life (i.e waiting for SWAT to arrive at a Bank or Store Robbery before 'going in')
• 2: GOB (General Patrol) officers will implement calling units such as SWAT/SED more frequently - giving people in those divisions more 'action' and RP interaction(s)
• 3: There won't be a constant predicament of 'every' officer running around with the highest AP number that criminals can order (again, doubling back to #2)

Regarding SWAT & GOB armor, there will be times that MANY officers even go on patrol without ANY armor on at all, including myself.

It's hard for me to put a decent 'balance' in my opinion, as there will inevitably people who disagree with SWAT/SED's use cases and armory (armor, weapons, etc), but heyho, it's worth at least hearing the opinion.

Weapons:

   - I do not know the exact weapon damage values as per the server defines them, I'm just doing math with the calculator app :^)
   - References are linked in each weapon name.
   - I will not talk about Pump shotgun, Pistol(s), or SMG & Micro as those are available to anyone.

I do understand the 'issue' with weapons available to LEO, but, (and I hate to be cliché), it's what is realistic for the department(s) to have and I don't think there is a large-scale / game breaking issue with the weapons allowed. I'll briefly go over a few weapons;

• Carbine Rifle
  • 32 Damage, 65 Fire Rate, and 55 Accuracy. Looking at the AK, it's 2 damage points higher than the AK (AK fire rate = 60).
  • Looking at the damage numbers POST weapon damage update, the AK was boosted by 50%, and the Carbine by 20% (AK=45 DMG, Carbine=38.4 DMG)
    • The reason it seems like carbine is better than the AK, is because you are shooting an AK at someone who has armor, compared to LEO shooting at someone with (normally) no armor, so inb4 "4 sHoT cArBiNe", think of the differences with armored v non-armored.
       
• Marksman Rifle & Sniper Rifle
  • It's hard to put these in comparison of another weapon, as there are about 2 (that I OOCly know of) sniper rifles (Heavy & Standard) on the server owned by non-LEO.
  • The use cases are restricted, and only members of SWAT/SED can use them - even at that, it's restricted as to how many can be out at once, and the proper usage in non-hostage related situations is rare.
    • The usage of the sniper rifle actually being used is the rarest I've seen in PD, I've only seen it used ~4-5 times in my year in the faction.
       
• Special Carbine (G36C)*
  • To make this next statement abundantly clear, this is not meant to be a "yOuRe WrOnG" to the OP comment --- the LSPD/SD/DOC does not have access to any MK2 weapons what-so-ever.
  • I won't go too into details, if you click the hyperlink you can see it's ranked higher than the AK by 3 weapons. I personally hate having the Special Carbine in our armory, not because of it's power, but for immersion purposes (it's damage can be argued, but so can 30-man banks and lab shootout scenes which we involve ourselves in from time to time and us needing to escalate our end for those).
    • To those who don't have knowledge of OOC ATU (Anti-Terror Units), the G36C is used by the GSG-9 (a German Anti Terror Unit). I despise being a representation of the LAPD using a weapon utilized by a German ATU. Personally, I'd like to see the Carbine Rifle MKII be implemented, and have the damage dropped to the same level as the carbine mainly for immersion/aesthetic.
  • At that, we also have heavy restrictions on using the Special Carbine - we do not allow members of SWAT (I cannot speak for SED as their protocols are different) to carry Special Carbines on standard patrol due to it's statistics. 

Vehicle(s):

I don't have much to say about the vehicles, SWAT/SED have protocols in place relating to when a specific vehicle can be pulled out or not. Additionally - the Insurgent (no gun) is the only vehicle with bulletproof tires, and the TARV is the only vehicle with bulletproof windows. Normally in most situations, those vehicles will be pulled out for operations such as drug lab raids/explosions or DOC HVT transports, where even at that, people won't try to intervene due to the chances of breaking their friends out < getting caught doing so.

The only personal PAST distaste towards vehicles (and this is the rarest vehicle that gets used, I've seen it 2 times in my year tenure in the LSPD and one other time outside of being in the LSPD) is the usage of the Insurgent 50 cal. It's not used a lot, and we require heavy permissions, so the use case is EXTREMELY I cannot stress this enough EXTREMELY limited (you'd have a higher chance to see 12 different 1 of 1 supers in a day than to see this). Even with it being pulled out, it's meant to only be a deterrent and 'persuade' people to leave an area/not get involved. The TL;DR, is that in my opinion LEO should ONLY use what is accessible, nothing where only one/two ranks in the department can pull it out.

 

 

[LucasMadrazo]

+1 - This could possibly level the playing fields.

[hrxvey]

7 hours ago, Jorden Sperry said:

LITERALLY, you have literally every damn thing known to man to win and it's "bAlAnCeD", why the fuck do you need all this excessive bullshit, its mad unfair and annoying to other players to interact with

hey man, coming across a bit toxic, leave that out of my suggestion please

[Jett_J]

On 8/17/2022 at 7:13 PM, hrxvey said:

they have access to MK2 weapons

This is not true...

[Jorden Sperry]

3 hours ago, hrxvey said:

hey man, coming across a bit toxic, leave that out of my suggestion please

yea you right g, I could of been a bit more professional with it, shits just annjoying thats all lol

 

[DoubleA]

+1 to EVERYTHING Ranger said. 

As a member of the community who has been on both sides of the coin, I think that there are always going to be main situations where PD will have the upper hand in situations, and it should be that way as police are equipped that way for a reason. That being said having to inflict enough damage to kill two/three standard people with less firepower, it does get a bit unrealistic. I do know there was an issue with female armor that was fixed a bit ago where it gave 200AP armor but it was for about a week and was fixed up very swiftly. 

 

Weaponry wise the only thing I will say is the marksman rifle is VERY regularly used and it is one of the most insane weapons to go against. In the right hands it can be used aggressively and shoot someone twice at full health and injure them, Ive been on the receiving end of this multiple times. I think honestly it should be restricted more protocol wise(which is obviously IC) instead of nerfed. Having a helicopter gunship with it on the side, if the situation REALLY warrants it, is fine in my opinion.

 

I really dislike how everything that has to do with crim RP always falls back to PD, it sucks that its the case but it wouldn't continuously fall back to it if things were slowly roped in. Nobody here wants a completely even playing field, and if they do, you're thinking incorrectly. Criminals just want the gap closed so in the middle of the day, there's actually a slight chance of winning a gunfight vs PD/SD, which right now is only possible VERY late at night, and when it does happen PD/SD constantly state we wait until late to bait DM rights to shoot cops, which personally I think is a wrong state of mind. It would change a lot to just creep that gap ever so closer.

[Ranger]

Please continue to keep the replies and comments constructive. We of course are perfectly fine with opposing opinions to help further the conversation/discussion, but there is no need to slander, create accusatory comments, harass, etc. factions or other players. Any comments that do not directly 'benefit' towards the conversation will be hidden. Thank you!

 

[XeV]

Regardless of the nature of the said shooting. obvious clear rulebreak

What  are the LEO's made of inside of this server, I knew the armor situation was like a problem brought up, BUT this is actually insane the whole "just do not fight the police" meta is clearly true. 

I was under the impression armor did not negate headshot damage, but I guess it does which is just sad

Im all for PD and SD being better in terms of like access to better guns and armor, but this is ridiculous at a balance standard

Edited September 25, 2022 by XeV

[XeV]

On 8/17/2022 at 9:21 PM, Ranger said:

Personally I wouldn't be opposed to this, I believe that due to the scarcity of criminal role players ordering and using armor it may show beneficial to lower the armor points for PD/SD whether it's a 'for the time being' change or a permanent one. However, if LEO armor points drop, I believe that weapon prices should NOT lower/raise, because then after a few weeks it will inevitably be the "LEO don't have enough armor to combat the amount of armed criminals that are running about!" argument.

Below I will touch on each point raised by OP, and (I don't think I need to say this but I will), this is my solo opinion as a community member, not as a staff member or member of the LSPD.

SWAT/SED Armor:

Speaking as a member of SWAT myself, I do still believe that divisions like SWAT and SED should of course have the highest armor option(s), as out of anyone in any department, as those are the divisions that often insert themselves into situations where they may face high lethal force and be outnumbered. Naturally, they should have higher AP armor paired with their weapons - they are meant to be the division(s)/unit(s) to end situations like that (to the best of their abilities of course).

(To preface, for those who don't know, SWAT and SED have two (2) 'versions' of patrol, PASSIVE is when they are on standard patrol and ACTIVE is when they put on 'their gear' for operations for situations that call for it.)

SWAT/SED Passive (current): 150 AP
SWAT/SED Active (current): 150 AP
SWAT/SED Passive (suggested): 100AP (highest AP a criminal can order armor for)
SWAT/SED Active (suggested): 125AP (25 AP higher than above)

The reason the "Passive" uniform should still be 100AP, is due to the fact that whether they are active or passive, they will still respond to high threat scenes where high lethal force may be present (and we don't consider every situation (such as a bank robbery) to be a situation to go 'active' for), so they should of course still have somewhat of a higher hand, being that 'team' that trains for situations such as those and inserts themselves into it if it makes sense.

The 'Active' armor should be 125AP, because if we put those uniforms on, we are 85% of the time inserting ourselves into 'one of those' situations.

General Officers:

Speaking for standard patrol officers, they may find themselves in some situations such as those more scarcely (as they of course do general duties as patrol officers and not big bad SWAT bois), I don't see a reason to patrol in anything higher than 50-75AP armor. If this is done, three things may come of it;

• 1: GOB (General Patrol) officers will need to be more careful of which situation(s) they insert themselves in due to the possible threat of life (i.e waiting for SWAT to arrive at a Bank or Store Robbery before 'going in')
• 2: GOB (General Patrol) officers will implement calling units such as SWAT/SED more frequently - giving people in those divisions more 'action' and RP interaction(s)
• 3: There won't be a constant predicament of 'every' officer running around with the highest AP number that criminals can order (again, doubling back to #2)

Regarding SWAT & GOB armor, there will be times that MANY officers even go on patrol without ANY armor on at all, including myself.

It's hard for me to put a decent 'balance' in my opinion, as there will inevitably people who disagree with SWAT/SED's use cases and armory (armor, weapons, etc), but heyho, it's worth at least hearing the opinion.

Weapons:

   - I do not know the exact weapon damage values as per the server defines them, I'm just doing math with the calculator app with knowledge available to anyone :^)
   - References are linked in each weapon name.
   - I will not talk about Pump shotgun, Pistol(s), or SMG & Micro as those are available to anyone.

I do understand the 'issue' with weapons available to LEO, but, (and I hate to be cliché), it's what is realistic for the department(s) to have and I don't think there is a large-scale / game breaking issue with the weapons allowed. I'll briefly go over a few weapons;

• Carbine Rifle
  • 32 Damage, 65 Fire Rate, and 55 Accuracy. Looking at the AK, it's 2 damage points higher than the AK (AK fire rate = 60).
  • Looking at the damage numbers POST weapon damage update, the AK was boosted by 50%, and the Carbine by 20% (AK=45 DMG, Carbine=38.4 DMG)
    • The reason it seems like carbine is better than the AK, is because you are shooting an AK at someone who has armor, compared to LEO shooting at someone with (normally) no armor, so inb4 "4 sHoT cArBiNe", think of the differences with armored v non-armored.
       
• Marksman Rifle & Sniper Rifle
  • It's hard to put these in comparison of another weapon, as there are about 2 (that I OOCly know of) sniper rifles (Heavy & Standard) on the server owned by non-LEO.
  • The use cases are restricted, and only members of SWAT/SED can use them - even at that, it's restricted as to how many can be out at once, and the proper usage in non-hostage related situations is rare.
    • The usage of the sniper rifle actually being used is the rarest I've seen in PD, I've only seen it used ~4-5 times in my year in the faction.
       
• Special Carbine (G36C)*
  • To make this next statement abundantly clear, this is not meant to be a "yOuRe WrOnG" to the OP comment --- the LSPD/SD/DOC does not have access to any MK2 weapons what-so-ever.
  • I won't go too into details, if you click the hyperlink you can see it's ranked higher than the AK by 3 weapons. I personally hate having the Special Carbine in our armory, not because of it's power, but for immersion purposes (it's damage can be argued, but so can 30-man banks and lab shootout scenes which we involve ourselves in from time to time and us needing to escalate our end for those).
    • To those who don't have knowledge of OOC ATU (Anti-Terror Units), the G36C is used by the GSG-9 (a German Anti Terror Unit). I despise being a representation of the LAPD using a weapon utilized by a German ATU. Personally, I'd like to see the Carbine Rifle MKII be implemented, and have the damage dropped to the same level as the carbine mainly for immersion/aesthetic.
  • At that, we also have heavy restrictions on using the Special Carbine - we do not allow members of SWAT (I cannot speak for SED as their protocols are different) to carry Special Carbines on standard patrol due to it's statistics. 

Vehicle(s):

I don't have much to say about the vehicles, SWAT/SED have protocols in place relating to when a specific vehicle can be pulled out or not. Additionally - the Insurgent (no gun) is the only vehicle with bulletproof tires (no bulletproof windows), and the TARV is the only vehicle with bulletproof windows (non bulletproof tires). Normally in most situations, those vehicles will be pulled out for operations such as drug lab raids/explosions or DOC HVT transports, where even at that, people won't try to intervene due to the chances of breaking their friends out < getting caught doing so.

The only personal PAST distaste towards vehicles (and this is the rarest vehicle that gets used, I've seen it 2 times in my year tenure in the LSPD and one other time outside of being in the LSPD) is the usage of the Insurgent 50 cal. It's not used a lot, and we require heavy permissions, so the use case is EXTREMELY I cannot stress this enough EXTREMELY limited (you'd have a higher chance to see 12 different 1 of 1 supers in a day than to see this). Even with it being pulled out, it's meant to only be a deterrent and 'persuade' people to leave an area/not get involved. The TL;DR, is that in my opinion LEO should ONLY use what is accessible, nothing where only one/two ranks in the department can pull it out.

 

EVERYTHING here W

[Jett_J]

4 minutes ago, XeV said:

Regardless of the nature of the said shooting. obvious clear rulebreak

What  are the LEO's made of inside of this server, I knew the armor situation was like a problem brought up, BUT this is actually insane the whole "just do not fight the police" meta is clearly true. 

I was under the impression armor did not negate headshot damage, but I guess it does which is just sad

Im all for PD and SD being better in terms of like access to better guns and armor, but this is ridiculous at a balance standard

I'm pretty sure headshots do ignore bodyarmor because I can clearly recall multiple instances where I have taken lots of damage to my health without the armor helping me from shootouts so I'm not sure if this was a desync issue or what?

I would like to get some clarification too if headshots ignore armor or not. 

[XeV]

2 minutes ago, Jett_J said:

I'm pretty sure headshots do ignore bodyarmor because I can clearly recall multiple instances where I have taken lots of damage to my health without the armor helping me from shootouts so I'm not sure if this was a desync issue or what?

I would like to get some clarification too if headshots ignore armor or not. 

yah to ALOT of people we assume armor is just completely ignored with headshots as I believe that stems from GTAO i have no idea, I assume this is desync but if thats the case then desync is a pretty serious issue if this can happen, its make or break shootouts