How to fix PD and make the *game* balanced, a pd suggestion

[AnakinB]

I know I recently made a discussion on the topic, however after reading everyone’s ideas there I decided I should make a game suggestion and propose some ideas on the subject, to hopefully bring some fairness to the server, as it’s not a secret that pd has to much power to make the game fun! 
1. right now as it is, PD can just spawn their armor, guns, and cars in free of charge. I propose that pd/sd should have to buy said things, and at the end of the day when they’re clocking off and going home they return the items, if they return them safely (and armor not empty) I feel they should get their money back I do not mean this as to try and punish PD I mean this so that there’s more to pd salary than just the occasional buying of food and radio, and then cars and businesses, because simply it’s not realistic I could drive past sd and pd and probably see 4-5 1 of 1 super cars, and 2 are probably owned by one guy who’s been around a while. So TLDR make them pay for ammo, guns, armor, cruisers.

2. Remove pagers, quite simply either remove pagers from pd or allow criminals to rp having them. Isn’t at all fair that pd can ping 100 people to get on and fight at most 40 criminals 

3. reduce the amount of armor pd can have on them at a time, as is there is police officers patrolling in 100 ap armor, when that’s just not even normal not to mention how heavy that would and the amount of stress it would put on the officers back it’s just not realistic, I’m not saying remove 100 ap armor from pd entirely however I feel like if your patrolling you should have 25-50 ap armor and even 50 is kind of a stretch. Let’s say there’s a bank robbery you can arrive on scene and if there is a hostage situation, etc put on the 50-100 ap armor and grab your guns. About to go in and raid a lab? Grab your armor and get ready, if someone thing is taking planning to do you should be allowed the more heavy armor. 
4. Carbine does way to much damage tbh lessen it.

5. Obviously doc time and rp but that’s being worked on

[Ash]

21 minutes ago, AnakinB said:

I propose that pd/sd should have to buy said things,

How would you suppose it works if they're broke or say a cadet who has no money? They can't make money if they can't get the standard equipment out? I'm unsure about using personal funds at all for this to be honest.
Instead having the purchases linked with the treasury and f4 could introduce some government budgeting RP and then LEO faction higher ups can implement things like tracking damage to vehicles, armour lost etc and then implement policies IC around that e.g. one officer seems to do a lot of damage to his car when on shift, he instead has to ride passenger for a week,
I know there was support from LEO's on your suggestion for that but personally it seems weird it'd use their personal funds and not a PD/SD budget. But with the way SASG is growing there'd definitely be room for budget management should there be more script support for accountability of damages/losses.
Right now in f4 things inside vehicles that are removable (gps) are tracked in treasury logs and the money is taken from the treasury when its removed from vehicle and then put back in when it's returned so I feel this could be extended to vehicle damage and kevlar and possibly even weapons upon death.
Edit for clarification: I don't mean 'budget' as in endless money pit like salary but a set amount of funds.
 

21 minutes ago, AnakinB said:

Remove pagers

I'm unsure if you're purely talking about pd/sd or all factions that have this but from my experience pagers allow DOC at the least to facilitate hostage situations, prison breaks, large transports. All of which are fun and wouldn't be very viable without a pager, especially in the quieter hours. I also think you're misinformed about pagers, they don't tag everyone in the faction but generally a specific division, I can't say about pd/sd 100% though but I'm sure someone will correct me.
 

[Jett_J]

As a LEO I think there are a few things that could be fixed but I also think that a big issue with the crim/LEO balance is that crim is simply too grindy.

1.

I like the idea of having to refuel and repair my own cruiser. I think that would be a more immersive experience and it's also a balancing improvement. win-win with that. Cruisers should not be despawned unless they are bugged or somewhere that cannot be retrieved by a flatbed.

2.

I don't think LEOs should have to pay for any equipment unless we get a salary boost (bad idea). However, I think some of the guns need to have higher rank requirements like the shotgun. Carbine is fine with the rank authority required but detectives/investigators should not be using it. 

I also think standard patrol kevlar should be 50 AP with the exception of SED and Metro. 100 AP should still be accessible to LEOs but make it mandatory that there is RP with it. And by that I mean actually getting out of your cruiser, opening the door/trunk and using /me to put it on. Not just going /me puts on his kevlar and then hop out the car with it on. 100 should only be used when going into highly dangerous situations.

3.

The number of shinobis allowed to be deployed at once by each department should be limited to 1.

The number of Jugulars allowed to be deployed at once by each department should be limited to 1.

Personally I don't like the idea of people patrolling in Jugulars even though that's an executive staff thing only.

There are already IC restrictions on deployment of these types of cars but I notice often times the rules aren't enforced very well which needs to be addressed ICly.

4.

Either make it a lot easier to get money for crims or reduce fines associated with charges. Also slash jail times. I don't think a cap is necessarily needed but things like evading shouldn't be 60 minutes, make it 30. Same with carrying illegal firearms etc.

5.

Helicopter pre-flight RP needs to be enforced. People are expected to do it but I can tell it's not enforced. This will delay the rate at which a helicopter can be deployed.

The fuel also needs to be decreased on helicopters.

6.

Unrelated but combat rolling is a pretty cringe and unrealistic game feature. If possible, which I don't think it is, the feature should be removed. Doesn't make sense for anyone to be combat rolling because who actually does that? I would say most people, including myself, use the mechanic during gun fights but it is pretty unrealistic.

Edited August 7, 2022 by Jett_J

[Jett_J]

37 minutes ago, Ash said:

I also think you're misinformed about pagers, they don't tag everyone in the faction but generally a specific division, I can't say about pd/sd 100% though but I'm sure someone will correct me.
 

Correct, pagers notify specific members of the faction who are in the division. Others who aren't in the division, can't see it.

Edited August 7, 2022 by Jett_J

[Mikazuki Ueno]

31 minutes ago, AnakinB said:

I know I recently made a discussion on the topic, however after reading everyone’s ideas there I decided I should make a game suggestion and propose some ideas on the subject, to hopefully bring some fairness to the server, as it’s not a secret that pd has to much power to make the game fun! 
1. right now as it is, PD can just spawn their armor, guns, and cars in free of charge. I propose that pd/sd should have to buy said things, and at the end of the day when they’re clocking off and going home they return the items, if they return them safely (and armor not empty) I feel they should get their money back I do not mean this as to try and punish PD I mean this so that there’s more to pd salary than just the occasional buying of food and radio, and then cars and businesses, because simply it’s not realistic I could drive past sd and pd and probably see 4-5 1 of 1 super cars, and 2 are probably owned by one guy who’s been around a while. So TLDR make them pay for ammo, guns, armor, cruisers.

2. Remove pagers, quite simply either remove pagers from pd or allow criminals to rp having them. Isn’t at all fair that pd can ping 100 people to get on and fight at most 40 criminals 

3. reduce the amount of armor pd can have on them at a time, as is there is police officers patrolling in 100 ap armor, when that’s just not even normal not to mention how heavy that would and the amount of stress it would put on the officers back it’s just not realistic, I’m not saying remove 100 ap armor from pd entirely however I feel like if your patrolling you should have 25-50 ap armor and even 50 is kind of a stretch. Let’s say there’s a bank robbery you can arrive on scene and if there is a hostage situation, etc put on the 50-100 ap armor and grab your guns. About to go in and raid a lab? Grab your armor and get ready, if someone thing is taking planning to do you should be allowed the more heavy armor. 
4. Carbine does way to much damage tbh lessen it.

5. Obviously doc time and rp but that’s being worked on

1. -1 it doesn’t make any sense for LEO players to have to pay for their own equipment. Legal factions already have budgets and accounting. I don’t see your reasoning for this. You’ve suggested how it can work in your opinion but not why it should be.

2. -1 pagers are very rarely used and are necessary for appropriate legal response. When used, dozens of LEOs don’t show up, it’s specific divisions. I haven’t seen any reason why this should be changed.

 

3. -1 I don’t see the reason for this, Kevlar is worn by LEOs in a realistic manner. The amplified and exaggerated violent crime with heavies, armor etc that are faced in the city require it. Handbooks require players to RP replacing the armor from storage and are penalized for not doing so realistically.

 

4. -1 I believe the weapon is balanced and appropriate the way it is. 
 

5. -1 DOC time has already been changed. It does seem like you said more RP ops are being explored for the hours necessary as a result of criminal charges. 

Overall, I think I just don’t understand the motive behind your suggested changed other than to ‘balance’ which I think it already is. I believe the intention is that LEOs are supposed to be stronger, more equipped, and with better communication. As an RP server it’s not meant to be balanced 50/50 LEO/Criminal.

 

I disagree fundamentally that LEOs are overpowered and have “to [sic] much power to make the game fun!”

I'm having a blast. 3600 hours since 02/21 and I’ve never felt LEOs are overpowered. They have more power as intended.

[tuffy]

43 minutes ago, Jett_J said:

As a LEO I think there are a few things that could be fixed but I also think that a big issue with the crim/LEO balance is that crim is simply too grindy.

1.

I like the idea of having to refuel and repair my own cruiser. I think that would be a more immersive experience and it's also a balancing improvement. win-win with that. Cruisers should not be despawned unless they are bugged or somewhere that cannot be retrieved by a flatbed.

2.

I don't think LEOs should have to pay for any equipment unless we get a salary boost (bad idea). However, I think some of the guns need to have higher rank requirements like the shotgun. Carbine is fine with the rank authority required but detectives/investigators should not be using it. 

I also think standard patrol kevlar should be 50 AP with the exception of SED and Metro. 100 AP should still be accessible to LEOs but make it mandatory that there is RP with it. And by that I mean actually getting out of your cruiser, opening the door/trunk and using /me to put it on. Not just going /me puts on his kevlar and then hop out the car with it on. 100 should only be used when going into highly dangerous situations.

3.

The number of shinobis allowed to be deployed at once by each department should be limited to 1.

The number of Jugulars allowed to be deployed at once by each department should be limited to 1.

Personally I don't like the idea of people patrolling in Jugulars even though that's an executive staff thing only.

There are already IC restrictions on deployment of these types of cars but I notice often times the rules are enforced very well which needs to be addressed ICly.

4.

Either make it a lot easier to get money for crims or reduce fines associated with charges. Also slash jail times. I don't think a cap is necessarily needed but things like evading shouldn't be 60 minutes, make it 30. Same with carrying illegal firearms etc.

5.

Helicopter pre-flight RP needs to be enforced. People are expected to do it but I can tell it's not enforced. This will delay the rate at which a helicopter can be deployed.

The fuel also needs to be decreased on helicopters.

6.

Unrelated but combat rolling is a pretty cringe and unrealistic game feature. If possible, which I don't think it is, the feature should be removed. Doesn't make sense for anyone to be combat rolling because who actually does that? I would say most people, including myself, use the mechanic during gun fights but it is pretty unrealistic.

+1

[XeV]

33 minutes ago, Mikazuki Ueno said:

1. -1 it doesn’t make any sense for LEO players to have to pay for their own equipment. Legal factions already have budgets and accounting. I don’t see your reasoning for this. You’ve suggested how it can work in your opinion but not why it should be.

2. -1 pagers are very rarely used and are necessary for appropriate legal response. When used, dozens of LEOs don’t show up, it’s specific divisions. I haven’t seen any reason why this should be changed.

 

3. -1 I don’t see the reason for this, Kevlar is worn by LEOs in a realistic manner. The amplified and exaggerated violent crime with heavies, armor etc that are faced in the city require it. Handbooks require players to RP replacing the armor from storage and are penalized for not doing so realistically.

 

4. -1 I believe the weapon is balanced and appropriate the way it is. 
 

5. -1 DOC time has already been changed. It does seem like you said more RP ops are being explored for the hours necessary as a result of criminal charges. 

Overall, I think I just don’t understand the motive behind your suggested changed other than to ‘balance’ which I think it already is. I believe the intention is that LEOs are supposed to be stronger, more equipped, and with better communication. As an RP server it’s not meant to be balanced 50/50 LEO/Criminal.

 

I disagree fundamentally that LEOs are overpowered and have “to [sic] much power to make the game fun!”

I'm having a blast. 3600 hours since 02/21 and I’ve never felt LEOs are overpowered. They have more power as intended.

1. Police should have to pay for their stuff to make it more immersive, and in return have a punishment/consequence for doing actions such as attempting to take a fight or head into a scenario that they get injured and die in, aka now have to go back and purchase more equipment cause they made a bad IC decision. BUT I am 100% on board with what @Ash mentioned about it being a budget and taken from treasury thing as that could lead to people looking into how the budget is spent and being used and if its being used correctly aka as he said, if X officer is regarding 5 times a day and pulling out a new cruiser 4 times a day. Something to look into and possible punish for as in he rides passenger for a couple days or adapts to make sure he is not doing this stuff daily.

2. Pagers are not used 'Rarely" then again I'm not LEO nor do i plan to be but in my experience it used for just sheer numbers game or outgunned,

3. 50 AP seems way more realistic then 100ap if we go into realistic manners. as realistically Kevlar is not protecting your arms and legs but ONLY your chest and back, I think gta mechanics make it so only your head doesn't take armor damage

4. You have just not been shot by one or used one and its obvious, as it was buffed by 20% for some reason and is a machine of a gun that downs in 4-5 shots it is an avoid at all costs weapon

5. DOC time has been changed and capped at 5 hours if you can afford the fines, A illegal gun charge is an hour of its self and quite insane for the average player as I am sure most of us are adults with full time jobs or even a family 1 hour is ALOT during the work week

6. Its a video game bro, there needs to be a balance or what is the point? if police cannot be fought against on any front it 100% becomes a "Cop State" and becoming a criminal makes 0 sense as Cops have every avenue of anything you can think of covered to the T and will "Win" every scenario you throw at them.

Micah you play the server WAY different then most and thus have a way different experience then most of us, I take your post with a grain of salt cause one you've recently joined a LEO faction and two the way you go about Crim RP on your character is vastly "unique" to the majority.

[Viiperz]

I don't usually respond to any of these but I feel it's important to set one thing straight as far as "pagers" are concerned. Speaking solely from PD's side our "pager" will ping a total of less than 20 people. All of these people are also spread across various time zones, as is the main player-base.

I understand that many players are feeling a "divide" or whatever label you want to slap on it, but let's at least make sure that we're getting the facts correct beforehand. An echo-chamber of hearsay and misinformation does nothing but undermine your main goals.

TL:DR - no leo faction pings 100 people to log on to shoot.

[Felcon]

It isnt that PD is overpowered but its more that criminal RP is not in the best state it can be. It is too grindy, high risk low reward, long prison time, and making money forces you to be alone and grind rather than RPing with other people and have interaction. 

1. I do not think PD members should pay or put a deposit for their items. A budget might be okay but realistically if a city has a high crime rate their budget will also be larger and the government will ensure that the SD or PD will be funded enough. 

2.  It is just not true and a completely false statement. 

3. Already IC protocols not everyone runs arounds with 100AP

 

The problem is with criminal roleplay and has nothing to do with cops. DOC jailtime should be temporarily put on a max for 2 hours or even 1 hour if you'd ask me, This would be a good temporary fix until DOC is updated. It should also be considered that turf upkeep should be reduced greatly and weapons maybe even cheaper to promote more roleplay in terms of selling. This would help crime make less grindy and more forgiving on losing stuff. 

[Neophite]

I agree that PD have to pay for stuff. This would include .50, PD Cruiser (would be similar to a personal vehicle that doesn't take up a slot like a credit car) and armor. Making the argument that they are "New to PD" doesn't really work because they can be a cadet and do paper work as they already do now and earn money. Plus no one said you have to have your own cruiser you could just Adam unit with someone else. You also have the option to do many other legal jobs to make money to buy things like a .50 and armor for your PD character. 

As an over all note I see no issue as to why PD should be able to pay for their stuff. This would help to make it so PD members don't have 10+ million in their bank account all the time and make it more realistic. 

[Jett_J]

1 hour ago, Neophite said:

I agree that PD have to pay for stuff. This would include .50, PD Cruiser (would be similar to a personal vehicle that doesn't take up a slot like a credit car) and armor. Making the argument that they are "New to PD" doesn't really work because they can be a cadet and do paper work as they already do now and earn money. Plus no one said you have to have your own cruiser you could just Adam unit with someone else. You also have the option to do many other legal jobs to make money to buy things like a .50 and armor for your PD character. 

As an over all note I see no issue as to why PD should be able to pay for their stuff. This would help to make it so PD members don't have 10+ million in their bank account all the time and make it more realistic. 

Paying for all your gear is so stupid.

What law enforcement agency would make the employee pay for their service pistols, body armor, and cruiser, and heavy weaponry. That costs 600k+ in eclipse and the only people with 10+ million are the high command who have been in the faction for 2-3 years. Like an admin said on the last discussion. The average leo makes 5000-6500 an hour and have a 20-35% tax rate depending on if you're a VIP or not. If I put 30 hours into the faction I get ~$120k because my character has a 35% tax rate since I'm not VIP. My character would use all of that in a week so I would just lose money playing.

Making LEOs pay for the gear is not the solution. Restricting them through a faction budget and rank authority is.

Edited August 8, 2022 by Jett_J

[GR_Seb]

  

1 hour ago, Neophite said:

I agree that PD have to pay for stuff. This would include .50, PD Cruiser (would be similar to a personal vehicle that doesn't take up a slot like a credit car) and armor. Making the argument that they are "New to PD" doesn't really work because they can be a cadet and do paper work as they already do now and earn money. Plus no one said you have to have your own cruiser you could just Adam unit with someone else. You also have the option to do many other legal jobs to make money to buy things like a .50 and armor for your PD character. 

As an over all note I see no issue as to why PD should be able to pay for their stuff. This would help to make it so PD members don't have 10+ million in their bank account all the time and make it more realistic. 

 

We pay taxes so the Government can fund the departments for their equipment and salary. It's a JOB.  Based on your logic, we will have Money Transporters buying their own money transport car to work, Truckers buying their own Truck and Cargo to work, Road Construction buying their own vehicles to work, Medics buying their own ambulances to work, Coroners buying their own bodybags and Romeos, LSC buying their own towtrucks, Taxi drivers buying their own taxis. It makes no sense. It's a roleplay server, it's not Cops vs Robbers with /me and /do.

Edited August 8, 2022 by Papadakis

[equ1nox_]

Everything that @Jett_J talked about is great. It is a BIG +1 from me. We shouldnt be buying our shit, this is a government job not a personal one, but we should be maintaining the shit we are given from the department, such as cruisers and weapons. The idea of /fl being used at any cruiser at any time is just not very good imo. We should have the ability to place extra weapons, kevlar, and ammo in the trunk of the vehicle in a secure compartment (which could even be made scriptly breakable but can sound an alarm and give us a ping on the vehicle) where extra equipment can be placed. This makes it so that we need to go back to the station and restock after a shootout etc. The state of PD/SD isnt too bad rn but there is a lot of very good things brought up by Jett which I really think should be considered.

 

I would like to note that crims make a lot more money that legal jobs if u do it right :pray:. I dont want to go into too much detail for metagaming reasons but I have calculated profits of popular criminal activities and the minimum is 20k+/hr for doing any criminal activity, with the lowest amount u can make coming from ATMs. Therefore, I see plenty of ways to make money as a crim that make at minimum 5 times more than a legal job.

[LucasMadrazo]

I personally do believe that the PD does need to be fixed in a way.

I do believe there should be something put into place that makes the PD responsible for raising funds for their Department Bank, which will be the money used to;

1. Pay the Police Department workers

2. Pay for vehicles for the PD

3. Pay for PD Equipment and Weapons

[Jett_J]

16 minutes ago, LucasMadrazo said:

I personally do believe that the PD does need to be fixed in a way.

I do believe there should be something put into place that makes the PD responsible for raising funds for their Department Bank, which will be the money used to;

1. Pay the Police Department workers

2. Pay for vehicles for the PD

3. Pay for PD Equipment and Weapons

Making us raise funds means we have to charge people as much as possible and cite people as much as possible to make money. Ultimately this will circle back on crims and they will be the ones paying for our gear.

[LucasMadrazo]

1 minute ago, Jett_J said:

Making us raise funds means we have to charge people as much as possible and cite people as much as possible to make money. Ultimately this will circle back on crims and they will be the ones paying for our gear.

You guys already take people to jail and they get fined, they also get fines from driving over 89 - Which should all go into the Department Bank.

I think that should be enough for the gear and all the stuff. 

If not, then yes, raise funds, do some RP and make some events that you fund raise to make people like the cops and give them money.

Change the community for better.

[Jett_J]

Just now, LucasMadrazo said:

You guys already take people to jail and they get fined, they also get fines from driving over 89 - Which should all go into the Department Bank.

I think that should be enough for the gear and all the stuff. 

If not, then yes, raise funds, do some RP and make some events that you fund raise to make people like the cops and give them money.

Change the community for better.

 

What would be the point of having this whole raising funds system if the current rate of money the factions would get from normal operations is enough to let us play the way we play now. Implementing this system won't hurt LEOs at all, it will just hurt crim RP since it incentivises LEOs to charge and cite you guys more so they can have the same amount of stuff as they did before.

[LucasMadrazo]

5 minutes ago, Jett_J said:

 

What would be the point of having this whole raising funds system if the current rate of money the factions would get from normal operations is enough to let us play the way we play now. Implementing this system won't hurt LEOs at all, it will just hurt crim RP since it incentivises LEOs to charge and cite you guys more so they can have the same amount of stuff as they did before.

So you are telling me based on the amount that they already cite them, they wouldn't be able to sustain the department?

Where is all this money going if not back into the community? Is it just disappearing?

[Jett_J]

20 minutes ago, LucasMadrazo said:

So you are telling me based on the amount that they already cite them, they wouldn't be able to sustain the department?

Where is all this money going if not back into the community? Is it just disappearing?

Again, it doesn't matter if it's already enough, why would LEOs not cite and charge the shit out of you if that meant unlimited guns, ammo, armor etc? For example, current rate of operations can provide me with one full set of armor a day but if I charge a criminal with everything I can then my faction can afford to give me two sets of armor now and I don't have to worry about conserving my first set of armor just like before when there was no faction budget and now the crim just served time and paid fines for some charges I wouldn't have usually added.

And yes all the money quite literally is disappearing since it's used to buy LEO armor, guns, ammo etc. all of which the community cannot obtain and it's non-reusable resources. 

Edited August 8, 2022 by Jett_J

[Icarus]

I have to agree with a few points here, I fully believe that LEOs should not be owning script-supported businesses like dealerships and general stores, this prevents any fun racketeering RP because it makes no sense for an LEO to shaken down by some criminal group because they can just go on-duty and fix the issue themselves. I would really love to see dealerships and general stores owned by civilians.  This allows criminals to try and do a different form of RP on the owner.

Pagers are used by a small amount of members in LEO factions, typically it's in direct response to a LARGE shootout or a VERY active shift with numerous shootouts. These pagers go off, reach maybe at most ten people who are awake, out of those ten, maybe three or four are at their computer, out of those three or four, maybe one or two actually log on. The pagers don't have any descriptions of what is going on, it is quite literally just a ping. All in all, I've had to use the pager three or four times since getting access to it, in that time, I think it has brought two people total, by the time they log in and get situated, the situation is over.

Armor is used by LEOs by is heavily regulated in every bureau, you will very rarely see a detective wearing armor that is more than 75 unless it is in response to a large shootout or dangerous situation, if they do put on 100 AP armor, they have to have prior RP of storing it in their vehicle, LEOs should not just be spawning in larger AP armor with /fl. If you catch an LEO spawning in armor using /fl without prior RP of putting it on, I highly encourage you to file a report on them, that lack of RP does not stand and will be punished. Again, the amount of armor and weapons we have is reactionary, we have seen a LARGE increase in shootouts and as such, we react to that by wearing higher AP armor. There are certain gangs that we when we get into a pursuit with, we expect them to open fire on us within a couple minutes so as such, we REACT to that by arming ourselves and partnering up to return fire if/when that gang opens fire.

Aldarine said it best and I will paste her response here as I think it is a phenomenal explanation: 
Law enforcement factions are set up in a manner to be reactionary. This means that there has to be some form of balance and adjustments when criminal players begin to rely heavily on things such as “meta vehicles” or repeat tactics. While we cannot go into specifics regarding In Character protocols, we can say that it is strived to make things fair. Does this mean it is perfect? No, things can always be improved and that is where respectful discussion and meaningful suggestions come in. As one example of balancing that has taken place is vehicle related. Many vehicles exist in the same capacity and are available to both LEO factions and civilians. This was intended to create a more equal field so something like a chase would be more up to skill as opposed to one sided vehicle enhancements. That said, law enforcement does need some upper hand as that would only be realistic and we aim to always improve and even the scales.

[Monroe_SB]

Remove spawn commands, make all weapons/armor like items civs/crims have.

Have a armory or personal locker where each LEO takes out his weapon armor and puts it in his car. 

PD using it fund can buy/refill armor/ammo/guns when needed , ofcourse if they will have budged money for that.

It will actually promote a more strick and realistic roleplay for weapon/item/armor usage where instead of nobrain spawn them, LEOs will have actually report why he is using 10 body armors per hour.

No magick spawns please.

[equ1nox_]

18 minutes ago, Monroe_SB said:

Remove spawn commands, make all weapons/armor like items civs/crims have.

Have a armory or personal locker where each LEO takes out his weapon armor and puts it in his car. 

PD using it fund can buy/refill armor/ammo/guns when needed , ofcourse if they will have budged money for that.

It will actually promote a more strick and realistic roleplay for weapon/item/armor usage where instead of nobrain spawn them, LEOs will have actually report why he is using 10 body armors per hour.

No magick spawns please.

This! 

I have been saying this for some time now to others in SD and also on the forums. Why are we still using /fl to spawn shit?? It should already be spawned in as item in our lockers/armory where we can just take it out when needed and report any damages/stolen shit to be investigated, putting more responsibilty to LEOs. The script wouldnt even be too difficult as I think it might be able to piiggy back off the evidence locker script etc.

Also taking care of cruisers, meaning that they need to be refilled and fixed. I mean when a civ/crim parks his vehicle and unparks it, the tire status, fuel, and damage are saved, so I dont see why this shouldnt apply to LEOs. They should be forced to fix their own cruisers (not paying for it but it would be paid through department treasury) and refilling the cruiser too. 

Also want to note that this will also add a lot of RP/interactions between LEOs and civs/crims as they would park up at LSC/Bayview, talk with people there and give mechanics some rp as well. A few weeks back during open juro I damaged my cruiser after a pursuit so instead of goign all the way back to Sandy I drove into LSC and got a repair. I interacted with a bunch of people there and had some fun during that short period instead of sitting in my cruiser for hours. 

Edited August 8, 2022 by equ1nox_

[DoubleA]

Im about to get controversial. 

The arguments coming from both sides, I understand. The end of the day, this is a video game. Why are people forced to grind to get items just for one small slip up to set someone back 4 hours of hard work(in some cases not hard but, most of them...) Im not here to say it needs to be even, but the gap needs to close. Here are a few suggestions from myself:

 

1. Armor needs to be fixed. I dont think its really a huge issue that PD has armor, that is how it should be, most officers will come out on top of a 1 on 1 which i think is realistic. My personal opinions of having a player tank 9 .50 shots ANYWHERE on the body and still living, thats where it starts to beg a question. I think that armor should be decresed to 50 for standard PD and 100 for Metro/SED WHEN ACTIVELY DEPLOYED - the Metro armor that they wear unless its changed since I was last there is around 125-150. They already get carbines and microSMGs, keep them at the same level as everyone else unless situations REALLY call for it, in which they would be actively deployed.

 

2. Not sure how easy it is to code in or do in GTA with rage, but I think damages for weapons should be publicly known, and there should be a simple rating for them. For example I would propose for a Pistol .50 -- Headshots -> 40HP, two shots to kill anyone not at full health, would be 3 shots minimum to kill someone // Torso/Chest shots -. 25HP, enough where 4 well placed shots will do the job // Extremities like arms legs hands feet -> 15HP, obviously it wont reward you for being a mediocre shot but that would take 6-7 shots to really take someone down depending on their health situation. Small things like this would be good so there's consistency, because currently the only consistency I see is carbines melt(as others mentioned)

 

3. I dont think PD should pay for their own things, I feel yes it should be more of situational NCR (New car rule) where if youre in PD/SD and you end up crashing your car, damaging or whatever, you cannot respawn a new one until said situation is over. Realistically if you get into an accident you wouldnt just grab a new cruiser immediately and get right back in the fight. Crims cannot spawn new cars in a pursuit, so why should a cop who crashed the jugular due to a poor corner get to /delcruiser - /fspawn jugular and be right back in the fight? I think that would be a lot more of a fair process, obviously if it was a bug I can understand - yet that would be something interesting to see implemented for full fairness.

(Obviously this doesnt fall under despawning a crusier to grab a bike or anything, its more of deleting a crusier/vehicle to spawn a new one, should be a reasoning behind it. Examples being high speed, offroad vehicle, motorcycle.)

 

More of an IC thing but I think the prices for heavies should be lowered and the jail sentences/fines should be lowered, the cap should remain what it is but being tossed in jail for 5 hours for a few things, until DOC RP is improved it should be fixed. Weapons being lowered would be less "save POV" and less ooc toxicity when things dont go the players way which would be more of a positivity thing within the server, and less jail would mean more players out RPing and keeping the streets lively. I digress.

[zooke1]

The game is not supposed to be ''balanced''. Criminals are supposed to find a way to perform their activities without engaging in full on wars with LSPD and LSSD. The police force will always be greater than the criminal one and yet, criminals engage so easily with LEOs, knowing that it will be a bloodbath and they do that to ''avoid'' getting a GTA and illegal weapon charge. I understand it's a game and you want to have fun but it got too arcade at this point, it's too easy for everyone to just start fighting even when the reasons aren't too great. 

It is absolutely normal and justified for LSPD and LSSD to be superior, they have to think thing through 10 times more than you have to as a criminal, they have more restrictions and plenty of things to learn and put time into for becoming an officer / deputy. 

[Melody Frey]

I agree a lot with what DoubleA said, but I want to add some suggestions of my own. Cruisers should be player owned instead of player spawned in my opinion, but I don’t know how this would work due to coding. If someone quits PD, scriptly making a script that has the capability of taking that car away from them would be a huge pain I’d imagine. I think the New Car Rule for PD/SD would be a great idea, and would also encourage people to stack in cruisers in situations where a wreck happens more. Huge +1 to that idea.

I once again would say that my suggestion to fix the issue is to leave police in the state they are IF we are able to get their equipment upon killing them, but staff believes this would cause a hunt for officers and cause bigger problems for the server. I think rules could be implemented to stop that, but I digress. 
 

Staff has said a few times now that the next major update is on DOC, so I think in the mean time; times should be reduced to two hours maximum and three hours if you cannot pay fines. It’s so hard to be in prison that I simply will log out now and serve my sentence on another day while I watch movies, as I typically play on low pop hours where no one else (including guards) is on. It’s an AFK simulator that gives me time to catch up on my favorite shows or play other games; and that’s something no game should ever strive to be. 
 

I don’t mind the police having high value cruisers, shinobis, and even the helicopter; but I really would like the NCR DoubleA mentioned to be put in place.

 

My last suggestion will be controversial at best, but if we cannot get access to police inventory weapons, allow Carbines to be a standardized cartel item available for import at tier 2 for 50k import and the same ammo price as AKs, or give newly official orgs the opportunity to import them instead of AKs. I know they can be imported in “special import” circumstances, but I think they should be commonplace as the standard AR style platform is much more popular in the US than the AK platform currently.

 

Criminals have to exist in the server for police to exist in the server. Criminals can exist in the server without police, however. I want cops to feel welcome and to have power, I just want equal footing to make our RP just as enjoyable without being thrown in a box that is used for admin punishments as well for 5-8 hours. Either give us a fighting chance, or let us have freedom in a much smaller amount of time in DOC so we can get back to having fun until the next update for DOC.