Dynamic bleed-out timer

[alexalex303]

The current injured state is static, and that creates points of frustration during criminal interactions. As it stands, a player will have the same amount of time to receive medical treatment if they are punched to injury state, or if they are shot several times.

The server features a wound system, which can be checked by all players, even the victim with /analysewounds, while the location is not perfect, as hitboxes are not perfect, it is more than up to the task and overall functional.

My suggestion is that every two bullet wounds halve the time to death. The average person will take four to six shots to be put in the injured state which means that people shot will take around a minute and a half to bleed out, whereas people that get injured by traffic accident, punching, etc will still have the full five minutes to receive medical treatment.

This suggestion is fair when considering both criminal and law enforcement roleplay as it would apply equally, it doesn't matter if it's a gang v gang shootout or a police vs gang shootout. You will still bleed out at accelerated rates. 

[Alannn]

+1 Great idea, I agree with @alexalex303, it's a good suggestion. 

[Celestial]

+1

It will put an end to getting arrested in a Crim vs. PD shootout and the stalling that happens if PD wins the fight to avoid getting arrested. Also seems like a realistic suggestion to how long it takes to bleed out relative to the game time.

[lojan]

+1

Very good suggestion!

[Requiem]

-1 

I like the logic of the suggestion, but it hinders roleplay. I feel the reasoning behind the current setup of the injured system is to always allow proper medical roleplay to occur regardless of injuries. If there was more script involved in the medical treatment process, I would support this suggestion to make injuries and bleeding out more realistic. Because most of the medical treatment is done via text RP with /me and /do, then just a single command input, I think its important we allow that RP to occur and don't take that from players. Some people might not like medical RP, but other like the RP opps it presents. Making it so people die faster will just take away from the MD faction's opportunities, and some players that want to medical RP, and encourage more PD vs Crim shootouts so they can die to get away from charges. 

[alexalex303]

3 hours ago, Bill Breacher said:

-1 

I like the logic of the suggestion, but it hinders roleplay. I feel the reasoning behind the current setup of the injured system is to always allow proper medical roleplay to occur regardless of injuries. If there was more script involved in the medical treatment process, I would support this suggestion to make injuries and bleeding out more realistic. Because most of the medical treatment is done via text RP with /me and /do, then just a single command input, I think its important we allow that RP to occur and don't take that from players. Some people might not like medical RP, but other like the RP opps it presents. Making it so people die faster will just take away from the MD faction's opportunities, and some players that want to medical RP, and encourage more PD vs Crim shootouts so they can die to get away from charges. 

People that want to partake in that roleplay can ask to be teleported back and resume their medical RP.

[skeletee]

4 hours ago, Bill Breacher said:

-1 

I like the logic of the suggestion, but it hinders roleplay. I feel the reasoning behind the current setup of the injured system is to always allow proper medical roleplay to occur regardless of injuries. If there was more script involved in the medical treatment process, I would support this suggestion to make injuries and bleeding out more realistic. Because most of the medical treatment is done via text RP with /me and /do, then just a single command input, I think its important we allow that RP to occur and don't take that from players. Some people might not like medical RP, but other like the RP opps it presents. Making it so people die faster will just take away from the MD faction's opportunities, and some players that want to medical RP, and encourage more PD vs Crim shootouts so they can die to get away from charges. 

I think I’ll -1 for the same reason as quoted above! I like this idea, but I also think this is one of those things that people can stand behind until its working against their favour. For example, if your organisation gets into a mass shoot-out with another, and your organisation survives, you WILL want to survive it. For some, this is granted that LEO do not arrive and place you in prison for three hours. When I am treating injured after a shoot-out, there is still that urgency to treat as many as possible, in as little time as possible, while still trying to maintain proper RP (e.g. fetching the med kits, identifying locations of wounds, locating and finding injured). Even then, people will still die. With a reduced timer, I’m afraid people will be more rushed with their RP and almost all members will die. With that being said, I’m not very sure what the implications would be here for the NLR rule. One of the reasons why conflicts can “escalate” and develop is because people survive getting shot and can live to tell the tale or seek revenge once they can (even if that does mean you are sometimes imprisoned).

These are just my two cents! Please share what you think if you have any thoughts.

EDIT: Just to be clear, I think the idea is good and can add realism, but perhaps 1 or so minutes might be a little bit too short? Could it be, instead, that simply being injured by gunshots would mean three and a half minutes instead of the full five?

Edited June 22, 2022 by skeletee

[Aldarine]

Unfortunately I will also be giving this suggestion a -1. The timing aspect that is being recommended here is simply infeasible and unless you are in such close proximity to somebody to provide medical treatment (as somebody in MD) everybody will die. The time frame in this post simply encourages people to spray others down intentionally to make them die faster, have lackluster roleplay that is rushed and very much tracks back to the lazy /do s? days and serves as a de-motivator for MD as nearly every call in relation to shots will result in death. 

Please keep in mind that after a call is made it takes time to respond to the call, drive there in an appropriate manner, find the patient, view their injuries via typed roleplay, figure out your course of treatment and then commit to the very long timed /stabilize command. Apologies but the timing is not conducive to anything that isn’t incredibly rushed and even then you have to time everything instantly (aka binds) to get even a few seconds of possible saving.

[Celestial]

Maybe the time should be extended once the paramedic reaches the patient to allow time for roleplay, so its more of a time race for the paramedic to reach the patient in time to offer more window for the typing.

Who would call MD after getting injured in a shootout anyway? They either get BLS from their allies then transported or get finished off by enemies. PD/SD already try to provide BLS to as many injured people as possible after a shootout, not all of the injured should survive, it just doesn't sound legit because its a fucking shootout, not paintball... And when they are given BLS, its inevitable that MD will reach them in time. Also @alexalex303 stated that injuries like a traffic accident and a melee fight would give the full timer, so it only applies for shootouts and it seems reasonable.

You're going to compare the bleed-out time of bullets to casual injuries? Try it in a real life experiment.

Still a +1 from me.

Edited June 23, 2022 by Vixxey

[alexalex303]

If people shot ended up succumbing to their wounds in the vast majority of cases, that would not be an issue, in my opinion. The act of succumbing to injuries following many bullet wounds is realistic, and comes with natural drawbacks in the form of NLR being activated and any assets present being lost. In regards to it removing roleplay, I disagree as well.

There is a great opportunity for roleplay past medical/law enforcement roleplay. Coroners would have more bodies to use, and a paramedic can also do passive roleplay with a body, attempt to get pulse, etc. I would personally find it much more immersive if after a shootout most of the people end up dying rather than officers putting gauzes on them for 10+ minutes, or allies shoving them in trunks.

Although I will agree this is a matter of preference, and the people against are not wrong, nor do I wish to imply that in any way. 

[Oli]

+1

I believe it makes a lot of sense for people who were shot down to die quicker than people who broke some bones for whatever reason.

I also dont think it hinders any RP. If any, it hinders crims going to jail RP, after getting shot 20 times and only getting gauzed by LEO to give enough time for MD to arrive to the scene and arrest everyone.

MD doesnt only rely on shootout casualties and applying this would give a fair shot to crims in shootouts.

I think 3mins should be good. As having it as X time per 2 bullets can sometimes be super low or just neglectable.

[Aldarine]

@alexalex303 I do not disagree that more people should fall victim to their wounds than currently do and I’ve been a proponent for adjustments to things like /cpr and /stabilize such as reduced health gain, constant and more rapid health loss regardless of command, etc. however a half reduction based on every 2 shots is far too short and sorry but passive roleplay checking a pulse so frequently is not something somebody wants to do all the time. 

Ultimately if the suggestion changed the time factor I would be more in favor. Specifically a change to what number I’m not sure but I can’t justify support to what I feel would be a hindrance to roleplay quality and being rushed simply so people can get out of charges. 

[equ1nox_]

Its a cool idea but the problem is that you are forced to riddle someone with bullets to fully incapacity them due to the GTA mechanics. In reality, one bullet is all it takes in most cases to injure or even kill someone, but we have to fire at least 3 .50 shots or more to injure someone in the server. Its a good idea but I dont think it will work due to the mechanics of GTA and the overall balance of the game. -1 but I would have loved to see it implemented.

EDIT: Somewhat related but the /stabalize command can be slightly modified to implement your idea. I feel like its extremely unrealistic and low quality RP for someone who was shot up in a shootout to get /stabilize by MD and sit on the scene for 15+ minutes while LEO run around and try to clean up the scene and figure out the charges. Maybe depending on the injuries sustained, the /stablize acts like /cpr but with a longer and more dynamic duration to encourage LEO to think about the individuals lives and not leave them in an injured state filled with bullets on a scene for extended periods of time. In addition, based on the RPed injuries, MD can have another command that basically "revives" the patient on site for less severe injuries like falling of ur bike or getting beat up. These might provide a more dynamic RP environment for all parties involved.

Edited June 23, 2022 by equ1nox_

[Gaz.]

+1 This suggestion.

From my point of view being in PD as it is right now, we shoot someone down to an injured state and immediately it's "Get BLS on him now!" and we pretty much unrealistically guarantee that some guy who has just been shot 6 times isn't going to immediately die. This adds no substance to my roleplay especially in tense situations such as hostage situations. These could go on for 30 minutes with good roleplay, ending up in us shooting down the hostage taker only to guarantee revive them and send them to prison to move on with our day. Personally, I find it very cheap that a situation can go on for a good stretch of time where we are arguing back and forth with a hostage taker who eventually forces us to shoot them down and then we just ship them to a hospital and have an awkward ride to DOC. Realistically in most situations whether is be Gang shootouts, PD vs. Gang shootouts, hostage situations etc, there would be many more casualties due to excessive bleeding that you would not be able to treat.

I think it would be extremely beneficial to this type of roleplay to have bleeding out modifiers such as;

Head GSW: 1 min 30 secs bleed out time.
Chest/Spine GSW: 2 mins 30 secs bleed out time.
Arms/Legs GSW: 3 minutes 30 sec bleed out time.
Hands/Feet GSW: 4 mins 30 sec bleed out time.
Everything else such as Blunt trauma: 5 mins bleed out time.

This would add more in depth roleplay to hostage situations/executions where headshots should not be one shot kill, but be more consequential than shoot, injure, treat, jail.
 

[Jett_J]

-1

I feel you shouldn't feel rushed to type out your RP. Because medical RP is mostly text and not script having a fast timer isn't very effective. It would cause people to create bad quality RP which nobody will enjoy. I personally enjoy typing out lots of detailed RP which just takes time to type out. I would rather like to see the timer stay long and have a script that will take into consideration the amount of damage a player received and after /cpr there is a % chance the command keeps them alive or then the player dies. This lets us keep the good quality text RP but also make the RP more realistic. 

 

 

Edited June 26, 2022 by Jett_J

[Gaz.]

15 hours ago, Jett_J said:

-1

I feel you shouldn't feel rushed to type out your RP. Because medical RP is mostly text and not script having a fast timer isn't very effective. It would cause people to create bad quality RP which nobody will enjoy. I personally enjoy typing out lots of detailed RP which just takes time to type out. I would rather like to see the timer stay long and have a script that will take into consideration the amount of damage a player received and after /cpr there is a % chance the command keeps them alive or then the player dies. This lets us keep the good quality text RP but also make the RP more realistic. 

 

 

I don't believe this makes sense. If someone is bleeding out quickly, you would feel rushed to treat them quickly which is what needing to type quickly replicates. If someone types a short sentence of medical RP that would not depict good quality treatment ICly, then thats perfect. You should need to take the time to type properly (treat them properly).

[Oli]

1 hour ago, Gaz. said:

I don't believe this makes sense. If someone is bleeding out quickly, you would feel rushed to treat them quickly which is what needing to type quickly replicates. If someone types a short sentence of medical RP that would not depict good quality treatment ICly, then thats perfect. You should need to take the time to type properly (treat them properly)

Well said!

If someone has a bullet in his head, you shouldnt expect him to survive so having "enough time to write detailed RP" only makes sense if such person has a fair chance of surviving.

Like when did you ever witness a medic tell PD that the suspect isnt going to make it? Dude has a whole shotgun shell in his head but just gets recovered by having some gauze pads and applying some pressure only to get arrested.

[Jett_J]

3 hours ago, Gaz. said:

I don't believe this makes sense. If someone is bleeding out quickly, you would feel rushed to treat them quickly which is what needing to type quickly replicates. If someone types a short sentence of medical RP that would not depict good quality treatment ICly, then thats perfect. You should need to take the time to type properly (treat them properly).

There is also the problem that people take a long time to respond. So even if you "treat" them in time it doesn't matter if the other person is not paying attention or stalling RP.

[alexalex303]

I think that while the exact solution is debatable, we should all be able to agree that the current system of surviving most gunshot wounds without much doubts is an issue both in a realism way and in a game way.

[Bala]

-1, for the server we have, we should treat all injuries the same to not overcomplicate matters. 

It works best when you don't think about it too much.

[Oli]

7 hours ago, Jett_J said:

There is also the problem that people take a long time to respond. So even if you "treat" them in time it doesn't matter if the other person is not paying attention or stalling RP.

Thats what reports are for, just like in any other case where you feel the RP wasnt fair.

1 hour ago, Bala said:

-1, for the server we have, we should treat all injuries the same to not overcomplicate matters. 

It works best when you don't think about it too much.

Dont get how "the server we have" should decide that we cant improve to add more realism into the server and fairness to the crims in the server.

It only works best in your favor and that's why you dont want to think about it too much.

[Icarus]

I'm torn on this one honestly. On one hand, I think it would provide some benefits to RP and allow for things like Gaz said to take effect here, where we as LEO's need to focus on getting both the hostage and hostage taker alive without excessive force, this helps create creative roleplay situations around hostage RP while also alleviating the reports that always come in about someone breaking fearRP during a hostage situation. 

On the other hand, I have seen a considerable increase in players that were involved in a shootout and got caught by an LEO do something along the lines of "/do would be shot 5 times to the head" and then when I do my BLS RP, they state that it wouldn't be enough to do anything just so they can die. While I can understand why someone who is going to be looking at large prison time would want deathRP, it just seems impossible to keep fair. You'd have people doing deathRP only with LEO's and not with their allies. 

In addition to this, a minute in a half is not enough time for any RP of any kind. The calls for realism here equate to saying that if you're shot once without armor, you should die. At the end of the day, this is a video game; we have to learn to walk the delicate tightrope of realism and videogame mechanics. 

[Bala]

14 hours ago, Oli said:

Thats what reports are for, just like in any other case where you feel the RP wasnt fair.

Dont get how "the server we have" should decide that we cant improve to add more realism into the server and fairness to the crims in the server.

It only works best in your favor and that's why you dont want to think about it too much.

Ok Spiderman.

The server we have is one where some of our population has strained relationship with the English Language, with being able to take any kind of loss without complaining, that drops real money on an Issi Sport because it's a meta vehicle, where braking going around corners is more a suggestion than a requirement, where character development is seen as a luxury that most cannot afford etc..

When the extent of medical roleplay is "/do broken back", it makes no sense to start getting creative with injury times based on where you get hit or with what. You know why? Because people will roleplay it the same regardless UNLESS as always, it's a situation where a faster death might benefit them.

But yeah sure, hurr durr cop bias.

[alexalex303]

Just now, Bala said:

Ok Spiderman.

The server we have is one where some of our population has strained relationship with the English Language, with being able to take any kind of loss without complaining, that drops real money on an Issi Sport because it's a meta vehicle, where braking going around corners is more a suggestion than a requirement, where character development is seen as a luxury that most cannot afford etc..

When the extent of medical roleplay is "/do broken back", it makes no sense to start getting creative with injury times based on where you get hit or with what. You know why? Because people will roleplay it the same regardless UNLESS as always, it's a situation where a faster death might benefit them.

But yeah sure, hurr durr cop bias.

The idea behind implementing it script-wise would be that the faster death would always happen in a scenario where it makes sense. Benefit or not, the shot person will still bleed out faster. 

[Oli]

1 hour ago, Bala said:

Ok Spiderman.

The server we have is one where some of our population has strained relationship with the English Language, with being able to take any kind of loss without complaining, that drops real money on an Issi Sport because it's a meta vehicle, where braking going around corners is more a suggestion than a requirement, where character development is seen as a luxury that most cannot afford etc..

When the extent of medical roleplay is "/do broken back", it makes no sense to start getting creative with injury times based on where you get hit or with what. You know why? Because people will roleplay it the same regardless UNLESS as always, it's a situation where a faster death might benefit them.

But yeah sure, hurr durr cop bias.

If people want to spend their money on meta or lore vehicles then that's their choice I dont get how's that related to the topic at hand.

Dont see how the other 2 topics you mentioned are related either but ye lets just ignore that.

It was previously mentioned here that we're not suggesting people who fell from roof or bike to die faster, we're speaking about gunfight victims, who realistically wouldnt survive that long and wont be that many if any.