jason

It's not about a specific number, it's about turning an entire luxury apartment into a druglab. You shouldn't be raising the entire floor to a point where it's clipping through things solely for the purpose of building a lab. Due to players abusing this on countless occasions, we've had to make this blanket change until a better solution can be reached.

As the above member said, these are fines for your crimes, not a bug. Locked & archived.

PD/SD can't spawn vehicles wherever they're standing, there's faction spawnpoints just like every other faction. If they're bringing out a BF400, they have to do to the station. You've never seen a cop spawn any vehicle on the side of the road. Speed tickets ticketing the car owner is just going to result in rampant trolling of people giving each other dozens of reckless ops and tens of thousands of dollars in fines. Otherwise, the rest is pretty good.

We are not obligated/forced to drop reports upon request. If we consider a rulebreak egregious enough we choose to carry forward with them.

As an ex-zeta, I can confirm there were far more petty reports and far more reports overall, both from and against us. There were a few occasions when people were reported for saying "shut up" or "stop talking kid" in OOC. These numbers greatly increased during wars, of which there were many.

This is something being looked at and a community member is mapping out empty versions of house interiors. It is not confirmed to be a future addition, but the assets are prepared if they are. Huge +1 though.

Times have gotten better. Report culture in 2019 was so much worse and that's where almost all of my crim playtime was. There were constantly 3+ pages of reports.

The following statements and views are my own and do not represent the staff team's views in any capacity. I think that's an awful way of looking at things. If you feel like that, you need to seriously look at your playstyle and analyze the playstyle of others that have been punished. On top of that, the report culture between players who are constantly in shootouts (this includes LEO as well as crim) is what leads to those punishments when most of the time it really just wasn't worth reporting. I played around a year on crim combined across two characters and didn't get punished a single time. I was reported once (that I recall) and it was in a group report where I had barely any involvement. It has NOTHING to do with staff status either. I was not a staff member for about 80-90% of my playtime as a crim. Both sides of these players need to play the other side and see what's going on. A lot of people tunnel themselves into the mindset of punishment invincibility or punishment inevitability because they fail to do this or fail to give it a fair try when they do it. Most people who play both sides extensively and simultaneously will rarely have the same issues that those who only tunnel themselves into one side do. I will not name players individually, but please look at players who have played either side then tunnel themselves into one. Watch how their mindset and attitude changes. 90% of these problems stem from close-minded echo chambers. Expand your horizons, deeply consider whether or not a rulebreak was heinous enough to warrant a report, analyze what you were punished for and your own mistakes, and do the same for others that you see being punished.

The Director of Facilities It was a good looking day in Los Santos. Sun was shining, birds were chirping, and Gordon was existing. Gordon had been going about his business as usual and had noticed someone he met a while back, Anton Blaster, relaxing at Legion Square with his coworkers. Gordon approached them and engaged in some casual conversation for a little while. Out of nowhere, a GoPostal van and some guy in an Emperor began ramming their cars into each other. We told them off and made the Emperor leave, then threatened to report the GoPostal guy to his workplace. He drove his van back to the GoPostal HQ and called a taxi to come back. None other than Jay Paige had driven him back to Legion Square. Upon Jay's arrival, he saw Gordon alongside his employees and approached them. "Gordon, my liege, what have I done to deserve your gracious presence at this time?" he asked. Gordon directed his attention to Jay and greeted him. After the usual shoe kissing and praise from Jay, he brought up the fact that the DCC building was in a state of disrepair after the previous janitors had been fired from DCC for not fulfilling their duties. Gordon said he'd happily do it for the title of Head Janitor. Jay's jaw dropped. "Really? THE Gordon Graves, my #1 idol of all time, wants to work alongside me?" Gordon ruffled Jay's hair. "Absolutely, sport!" he said. Jay squealed in excitement. "I'll give you the title Director of Facilities right away! Let me ask my mom first, though." Jay called for Lilymay on the radio and asked where the pair could meet her. She had just pulled up to Legion Square, so they began conversing. Jay presented the idea to Lilymay with excitement - nearly begging - and asked, "Pretty please with a cherry on top?" Lilymay thought over it for a moment and began to speak, "If he can fulfill his duties, we can absolutely give him a trial run." Jay was in complete disbelief. He finally gets to work with his role model once again. He jumped and yelled for joy. He kept holding his fist up while trying to jump, possibly trying to emulate the end of Disney TV movies where they freeze in the air while celebrating? Jay hurriedly ushered Gordon into his taxi. "I'm so sorry this isn't a luxury limousine, you know I only want the best for you," Jay said. "It's okay, Jay. You couldn't have anticipated this, you don't need to treat me like a god." Jay hyperventilated at the thought of treating Gordon anything less than that of a god. Nonetheless, they carried on. Jay drove Gordon to a janitor supply store to pick up a good cleaning jumpsuit. He begged to pay for it, but Gordon wouldn't let him. Gordon was fully suited up and they headed to the DCC HQ. When they arrived, Jay began giving Gordon a brief tour of the remodeled facility. Gordon hadn't properly toured around DCC since before the remodel, so this was definitely needed. Jay showed him around everywhere then led him to the desk at the front, stating that this was Gordon's office. Gordon was happy. He thanked Jay for his generosity. They headed to the HR desk and Jay began drafting up Gordon his DCC identification. He handed Gordon his ID and began to speak, "I'm so sorry it's not gold plated with platinum highlights like I want to give you... it's too expensive for the company." Gordon chuckled, "It's okay, Jay. I don't need anything like that." Gordon held up his ID. This wasn't what they had agreed upon, but it'll do. Jay makes mistakes sometimes, he's only subhuman, after all. Jay leaned in for a hug to bid Gordon farewell, but Gordon held him back and shook his hand instead. "Thanks for everything, Jay." Jay squealed like a schoolgirl and skipped away. "I'm never washing this hand!" Jay exclaimed in the distance. Gordon got to work straight away. He started on one of the toilets as it hadn't been functional since the building was first remodeled. Legend has it that it was broken after the old CEO, Jason Castillo, used it a single time. Gordon worked on it for a little while and got it working like a dream in no time. Once that was done, he headed outside and took a look at the building. It wasn't in the greatest shape, but it's by no means an impossible job. He took a walk around trying to decide where to start and eventually settled on the plants. Clearly no groundskeepers had so much as heard of this building for a long time. Every plant was infested with weeds. Gordon began de-weeding the planters by hand and followed it up by spreading some weed preventer throughout them. This place is gonna be gorgeous.

This is exactly what I'm talking about, though. You still don't have DM 1 or DM 2, it's just between a DM 1 and a "spoken to" because neither of those fit the scenario. It's basically saying that while the RP was good and sufficient, it still technically breaches our current rules. Due to this situation, I will be bringing up the possibility of changing/tweaking this rule to allow more natural, well executed scenarios like this one. Basically, the punishment is just a slap on the wrist if anything. You showed full understanding of the DM rule, so it's not a spoken to as you don't need that. It also showed full understanding of what realistic escalation is, just a misguided ending of it, so it's not a full DM punishment.

There's a massive difference. Appealing has you explain yourself and what you did wrong, why it's wrong, and how you'll avoid doing so in the future. It allows us to determine whether or not someone's ready to come back and has demonstrated that they at least understand what they did wrong.

We don't add temporary bans because you don't have to actually serve any punishment by getting one. You just don't play or have to explain/justify your coming back. That's why we use ajails as well, you're forced to actually endure a punishment rather than just taking a break and going to a different game.

+1, also allows natural hostage situations with bank robberies to occur since they'd be within the establishment that's being robbed.

We don't introduce a blanket expiration date for punishments for a good reason. It's been discussed multiple times and is unlikely to change in the near future.* We do, however, deviate from standard punishment guidelines regularly for players with long gaps between punishments. Someone who's committed DM 2 with their DM 1 being well over a year old may get a long admin jail instead of a permanent ban in some cases depending on the severity of the situation and whether or not they were actively playing during that gap between punishments. Having it on a case by case basis allows us to more accurately determine whether or not that person should be receiving a permanent ban vs a lengthy admin jail. If we apply a blanket change such as this, it allows a lot more rulebreakers to slip through the cracks and have the chance to commit additional rulebreaks where they otherwise would've been in the appeal process. Overall this change has good intentions that are genuinely valid concerns, but we already do something similar on a more accurate and lowkey basis. * This is my own opinion as to whether or not it will change in the near future, I'm not speaking on behalf of the staff team.

There is a balance between the two and exceptions can be made in either direction. I've also had the issue of tunneling into the argument of "it's full realism or full game mechanics" and it will only destabilize your view of things regardless of whether or not they're valid points. We should stay on topic or this thread will end up locked & archived when it is a valid discussion. My previous post sums up my thoughts but I'll reiterate. The calls should not be assumed to be drug labs, however they should still be treated as a crime scene as realistically it's a high-rise apartment building in the city that just had a significant explosion inside of it. MD should not be entering with guns to protect themselves from danger, that's just entirely unrealistic and poor RP standards. MD and PD work together for a reason, if we wanted MD to have the side of PD we'd just give them all of PD's tools and vice versa with PD. There's different factions for a reason and interdepartmental relations are good to utilize and strengthen.

I'm 100% on board with this. In that universe, police still show up and establish a crime scene first. I have no qualms with removing the assumption of a drug lab.

Right but the second anyone sees MD there they're not going to give them that opportunity and will take them hostage within the apartment while they clear their stuff out, therefore putting MD in direct and immediate danger.

Hey @Bakmeel thanks for lending me one of your many supercars while you were attending 17 back-to-back charity events for impoverished children. I really appreciate it, left the keys on the table in the second living room of your $55,000,000 ranch.

I just can't agree with that at all. It doesn't make any realistic sense whatsoever and directly puts MD in danger every single time they respond to that call.

The phone call changing wouldn't change the fact that it's an explosion, and I'm really not sure what SOP could be changed without sounding entirely unrealistic. "Do not immediately treat an explosion in a high-rise apartment building in the city as a crime scene." It's not a limit on creative roleplay, it just makes complete sense. I disagree with stuff like shooting bank robbers the millisecond a hostage is 3 centimeters in the clear because that just stops an entire situation that could've been planned out with cool escape routes and distractions, but not treating an explosion as a crime scene just seems silly, especially in the eyes of literally everyone that isn't the person whose apartment exploded. You could argue that he could try and say it's a pressure cooker or something but PD is still going to have to investigate it nonetheless.

Buy a little 1G in the ghetto for realism if you guys wanna stick to that argument, but that's beside the point anyway. Use whatever interior you want for now as long as it's enabled to you. The average random crim in Los Angeles shouldn't be richer than legal people. That's just realism. Every update doesn't "fuck over" crims from all the new equipment given to PD or rules. Rules have gotten looser and more vaguely written for the purpose of allowing you guys more roleplay. The only "limiting" rule is the NonRP robbery rule which has overall improved civilian RP. People actually feel safe being in public or in a clothing store without the fear of just being robbed 24/7 in places where it makes no sense. Look at crim gangs that play like actual criminals and don't just grind 24/7. They lay low and keep to themselves unless they need to make a scene and it works wonderfully for them. Every crim with tables isn't a drug lord. If you actually put in the effort to become a criminal kingpin, you absolutely make the money realistic to your role. However, as I previously said, not every random crim is a drug lord just for running one drug lab. If you want to be rich from criminal stuff, turn yourself into a criminal kingpin. There are absolutely people who do this and have done this, you aren't limited by the script or power of PD. Lay low and keep PD out of your business and they won't even be an issue in the equation as long as you keep your labs and operations running smooth.

FD will never go into the scene of an explosion before PD. Explosions are almost always considered criminal/malicious until proven otherwise. A fire is not the same thing as an explosion and they are not treated the same. I feel like a 5 year firefighter EMT probably knows more about this subject than either of us.

If an explosion happens in a high-rise apartment building in Los Angeles it will be declared a crime scene. I'm not sure how that's in any way unrealistic.

This thread will now be locked and archived as the conversation is not progressing. The staff team has made an internal decision on this matter that will be announced soon.