Crim 2K21?

[Danyby]

It's been a while since crim rp in this server is getting nerfed rules and script wise. I want to know the thoughts of the community about this point, what other crim factions think of this? Why are we more restricted by more rules every time?

I want to know the thoughts of the community about these three reports too. What can crim do in those situations else what's been done in the POVS. Why are we obliged to get arrested at every pull over and don't try to do anything that can make us flee when we are heavily armed? Why should cops pull overs always be done in the same way again and again ? C.F : pull over - call for back up - being chased - Xray out - High speed police vehicule out - end in jail and you can't do anything else. Why those actions are stated like a non rp actions, do you think it is really one? 
Thank you and let us discuss this in a respectful manner. 
Reports : 

 

 

 

Edited May 12, 2021 by Danyby

[BlueFlame]

‏I want to express my opinion on this post and thank @Danyby, why shouldn't we flee when we have committed a crime and the police pulling over us? Or do we want to kill the cops it's be a fail rp? Because the police don't like the person who flee from them in IC and report on the person who killed them,

and it is clear from the first report that the policeman pulls out his gun when the person puts the gun on him and the policeman who pulled out his gun know that his accomplices have been warned to lift the gun but he does not.
 

In the second report the reporting party were did fear rp because the enemys told them to (get out | get out | stop | stop) but he didn’t comply he was tryed to go straight.

 

And third report it wasn’t NON RP because you can do that in real life, tell someone or police to get in the trunk, but it was public area you can’t do that in thie server rules.

And i apologize if iam not allowed to submit this post.

Thanks

Shadyar Rzgar

[Victor Einhart]

41 minutes ago, Shadyar_frank said:

third report it wasn’t NON RP

They did this over a $500 traffic ticket. Do you think that's ok?

[Danyby]

3 minutes ago, Victor Einhart said:

They did this over a $500 traffic ticket. Do you think that's ok?

Read the report, the two guys had their heavies on their back, the officer would clearly see the guns

[Victor Einhart]

Just now, Danyby said:

Read the report, the two guys had their heavies on their back, the officer would clearly see the guns

So they should all jump out of the car while the officer has backup coming, and spending even more time stationary?  Makes no sense.  Drive away.

[Danyby]

4 minutes ago, Victor Einhart said:

So they should all jump out of the car while the officer has backup coming, and spending even more time stationary?  Makes no sense.  Drive away.

Fast iq test for you :

- Would you make the officer get in the trunk without making other cops aware of the situation and flee without even being chased. 

-or making it clear to cops to chase you, which nowadays you cant do shit without an off-road car so you'll end up in jail 90%

Edited May 24, 2021 by Danyby

[tylxrrr]

I would like to express my opinion as well. 

For the first report, I think it is pretty hard to go one way or another. It could be argued both ways. One way is that Colt_Daniels pulled out a SMG and began to aim it which is definitely a hostile action, so it would grant DM rights. Furthermore, attempting to comply after a hostile action shouldn't void DM rights. Another way is that he recognized that there were too many people to fight, so he tried to comply by typing /up, but he was shot because of time. Maybe if he had like 5 more seconds, the outcome would be different. Honestly, if the keyboard shortcut was used, then that probably would have changed the outcome. I guess I can explain what my actions would be if I were both characters, but then again, being in the moment may cloud judgement. If I were the sheriff, I would either try to fight it out as I already pointed my SMG which granted the person DM rights or I would just use the keyboard shortcut because it is way faster than typing. If I were the Irish, I would try to give more time as he stopped pointing his SMG to be safe or spray because he pointed his SMG. Either way, it is hard to put myself in their exact shoes. I am undecided on this one. Those are my thoughts on the first one. 

 

For the second report, the individuals have heavy weapons so obviously they would be charged with felonies. Although the sheriff may not know this immediately, they will once they get to the window as they would be visible. I think it is perfectly fair for the individuals to get a head start on trying to hold up the deputies before the deputies know they have heavy weapons. This is because the situation will become extremely difficult once SD calls back up for multiple gang members with heavy weapons. They gave SD demands and SD didn't follow them, so they got shot. They hopped back in their car and left. I think that they executed it really well and were fast. Their objective was clearly to get away and not be arrested which they did. They didn't linger around, so I think they should have been fine personally. Similar to the first report, I will say what I would do if I were them. Before I knew this was punishable, I would do the exact same actions as the individuals. Knowing that it is punishable now, I guess I would just flee or wait till the deputies know we have heavy weapons which makes the situation difficult. If I were SD, I would honestly just comply with the demands. I wouldn't have tried to drive off especially with three heavily armed men pointing weapons. I am siding with the Irish's actions on this one. Those are my thoughts on the second one.

 

For the third report, it is very similar to the second report and my same points stand. The individuals had heavy weapons, so they would be charged with felonies. They initiated first to have the upper hand. If they waited for the officer to know they have heavy weapons, then it would be a lot more difficult to get away, so it makes sense why they initiated first. The location was not ideal but I think the importance of not going to prison outweighs this. They were relatively quick and did not linger around. Their objective was clearly to get away and not be arrested which they did. Similar to the first and second reports, I will say what I would do if I were them. Before I knew this was punishable, I would do the exact same actions as the individuals. Knowing that it is punishable now, I guess I would just flee or wait till the officers know we have heavy weapons which makes the situation difficult. If I were the officer, I wouldn't change my actions. He complied just as I would, so nothing to say here. I will side with 67's actions on this one. Those are my thoughts on the third one.

 

Overall, I think that escalating situations like these are fine even if law enforcement does not know exact details as long as no lingering occurs. It really makes no sense to wait for a LEO to get to your window to see your heavy weapons, and then try to do something about it. I think that the element of surprise is something to be used in these situations. In terms of realism, I think that it is realistic for a criminal to try and do anything they can to not go to jail which was what was displayed in this situation. After all, roleplay is not 1:1 in real life. Honestly, there was a sad situation like this that happened IRL recently, so it isn't far-fetched to happen in-game.

[Victor Einhart]

20 minutes ago, Danyby said:

Fast iq test for you :

- Would you make the officer get in the trunk without making other cops aware of the situation and flee without even being chased. 

-or making it clear to cops to chase you, which nowadays you cant do shit without an off-road car so you'll end up in jail 90%

Wait for officer to dismount car and be next to your window.  Press W.  By the time he calls in a pursuit and is back in his own car, you're gone.

[NxmeLess]

2 hours ago, Victor Einhart said:

Wait for officer to dismount car and be next to your window.  Press W.  By the time he calls in a pursuit and is back in his own car, you're gone.

Great idea in theory, doesn't really work when 4 cruisers, a specialized vehicle (kamacho or super) and xray show up in 30 seconds. When crims are consistently "ordered" to step out of the vehicle for $500 fines, the statement "They did this over a $500 ticket" is contradictory to the practices seen daily. They took matters into their owns hands before the officer could radio in for the 5 units, since they have all been burned numerous times before. 

Traffic stop for stopping at red lights btw..... not pictured the kamacho around the corner and xray overhead

[BallinByNature]

4 minutes ago, NxmeLess said:

Great idea in theory, doesn't really work when 4 cruisers, a specialized vehicle (kamacho or super) and xray show up in 30 seconds. When crims are consistently "ordered" to step out of the vehicle for $500 fines, the statement "They did this over a $500 ticket" is contradictory to the practices seen daily. They took matters into their owns hands before the officer could radio in for the 5 units, since they have all been burned numerous times before. 

Traffic stop for stopping at red lights btw..... not pictured the kamacho around the corner and xray overhead

You're mixing two of the three scenarios - in the one where he was being pulled over in a super car by a SUV, they jump out with heavies and hes the only cop, there isn't 4 cruisers there.

Assuming you'll lose a car chase ahead of time is a poor reason to escalate to murder. Your character would not want to murder cops by default and if he does want to murder everyone who comes close to interfering with his driving because he has a heavy on his back he should probably drive sensibly so he doesn't have to escalate to murdering cops because his driving.

The rules haven't changed for criminals and the rules apply to all players including cops - but I don't see other types of players shooting / robbing other players based off the assumption that they would have probably lost a chase / pursuit with the person. They would be punished too if doing so.

[tylxrrr]

32 minutes ago, BallinByNature said:

Assuming you'll lose a car chase ahead of time is a poor reason to escalate to murder. Your character would not want to murder cops by default and if he does want to murder everyone who comes close to interfering with his driving because he has a heavy on his back he should probably drive sensibly so he doesn't have to escalate to murdering cops because his driving.

I don't want to take your comment out of context, so I will just select this portion. I agree with this. I doubt any criminals would want to murder a LEO as that would probably cause gang suppression checks and LEOs will probably try even harder to arrest the murderer. Also, if the murderer is caught, they would probably get charges stacked and the time/fines won't be pretty. This is completely fine. However, if everything goes to plan, and the criminals get the cop under fear RP to lock them in their trunk or whatever, would that be appropriate? I feel like a good example of this is in the third report. It was relatively quick and they got away. The situation in the second report was executed faster but it did result in killing due to the SD officers not complying, but they didn't linger around and got away. The first report is what I am iffy on though, it was messier than the second and third. I think that if it is like one cruiser, then you should be able to hold them up to get away. However, if it is a few cruisers, then that just becomes messy and turns into an ambush. Although ambushes are not against the rules, ambushes on cops seem odd to me.

 

45 minutes ago, NxmeLess said:

Great idea in theory, doesn't really work when 4 cruisers, a specialized vehicle (kamacho or super) and xray show up in 30 seconds. When crims are consistently "ordered" to step out of the vehicle for $500 fines, the statement "They did this over a $500 ticket" is contradictory to the practices seen daily. They took matters into their owns hands before the officer could radio in for the 5 units, since they have all been burned numerous times before. 

Traffic stop for stopping at red lights btw..... not pictured the kamacho around the corner and xray overhead

I think at that point. You should either just attempt to flee or just comply for a smaller sentence. Hopping out and spraying would not be wise nor would ambushing. It just becomes really messy if those things happen. However, I really believe that if it is one cruiser or so, you should be able to hold them up. That being said, it shouldn't become a regular occurrence that this happens. If you get pulled over with an unlicensed pistol .50 and you hold up a cop, then that should just be NRP. Just my opinion though.

[Danyby]

6 hours ago, Victor Einhart said:

Wait for officer to dismount car and be next to your window.  Press W.  By the time he calls in a pursuit and is back in his own car, you're gone.

By the time, when the cop in question is by your window, there's definitely 4 other cops cars in stand-by behind him, so they would chase you. 

[Burnem86]

12 hours ago, Victor Einhart said:

They did this over a $500 traffic ticket. Do you think that's ok?

People IRL kill people for $500. At least in America they do. Hell, sometimes people kill people for no money at all or VERY small things. These things need to be looked at as REAL LIFE events. Fleeing from the Police, doesn't always mean you have to have done something completely  crazy. Maybe the person is unstable, maybe they just dont want to go to jail, maybe they have a felony already and any violation will send them to jail for 25 years to life. Crim shouldn't be penalized for killing or fleeing from the Police. Lets also remember that PD, has way more resources than the average Crim character. Why shouldn't PD get killed or lose every now and again? Just my two cents.

[Victor Einhart]

1 hour ago, Burnem86 said:

Crim shouldn't be penalized for killing [...] Police

[Burnem86]

23 minutes ago, Victor Einhart said:

Within reason of course lmfao!

 

[freshprinceIE]

I think the question has to be asked... Why are criminals going around with heavy weapons (or any weapons even) visible whilst commiting crimes? Why would you drive through a city with heavy weapons on you (this question could be a standalone, why would you drive through a city full stop with heavies visible?), and then decide to speed or break other laws to bring attention to you? If you get stopped for a going 10km over the limit and have no gun visible you are going to get away fine.

I had arrested a 3 times occupied vehicle this week for going incorrect lane to avoid the toll booth. They each had a pistol. The script only allows 2 guns to be stored in the glovebox, and they did not even have tinted windows so they were going to be spotted when pulled over since at least 1 gun had to be visible. Why would you do an action to bring attention to yourself? There are scripted ways to hide guns in cars and storage items.

On my crim, I got caught once with an illegal .50 at the pier. I never got caught again with a pistol visible other than in a situation where I was using it (e.g a shootout, robbery).

TLDR: Drive around with weapons visible, bring attention to yourself and it's on you for being arrested.

 

[Danyby]

1 hour ago, freshprinceIE said:

I think the question has to be asked... Why are criminals going around with heavy weapons (or any weapons even) visible whilst commiting crimes? Why would you drive through a city with heavy weapons on you (this question could be a standalone, why would you drive through a city full stop with heavies visible?), and then decide to speed or break other laws to bring attention to you? If you get stopped for a going 10km over the limit and have no gun visible you are going to get away fine.

I had arrested a 3 times occupied vehicle this week for going incorrect lane to avoid the toll booth. They each had a pistol. The script only allows 2 guns to be stored in the glovebox, and they did not even have tinted windows so they were going to be spotted when pulled over since at least 1 gun had to be visible. Why would you do an action to bring attention to yourself? There are scripted ways to hide guns in cars and storage items.

On my crim, I got caught once with an illegal .50 at the pier. I never got caught again with a pistol visible other than in a situation where I was using it (e.g a shootout, robbery).

TLDR: Drive around with weapons visible, bring attention to yourself and it's on you for being arrested.

 

The post is not about how to not get caught or why crim are going in city with heavies, I mean why not? Isn't it the purpose of script change to make our heavies visible while in cars? Back to main topic, It's about why are these actions considered unrealistic for ECRP handlers? Why it's preferred always to have only that scenario of 10+ cops chasing one car? Why diversity on this kind of scenarios is not allowed? Depending on the actions done with these reports especially the last one, the actions are done in a professional way, clean and fast and still considered non rp. 

[Denza]

The first two encounters are deffinitely correct in terms of punishment given, however I don't see how the third encounter is Non-RP considering the vast ammount of shit that actually happens in real life on a constant basis. Officer wasn't harmed and was put into his trunk and locked with his radio so the individuals have a better chance of escaping and/or avoiding prison considering the firearms they had on them. I personally dislike how things like this are even reported if the officer didn't lose anything.

[tylxrrr]

3 hours ago, freshprinceIE said:

I think the question has to be asked... Why are criminals going around with heavy weapons (or any weapons even) visible whilst commiting crimes? Why would you drive through a city with heavy weapons on you (this question could be a standalone, why would you drive through a city full stop with heavies visible?), and then decide to speed or break other laws to bring attention to you? If you get stopped for a going 10km over the limit and have no gun visible you are going to get away fine.

I had arrested a 3 times occupied vehicle this week for going incorrect lane to avoid the toll booth. They each had a pistol. The script only allows 2 guns to be stored in the glovebox, and they did not even have tinted windows so they were going to be spotted when pulled over since at least 1 gun had to be visible. Why would you do an action to bring attention to yourself? There are scripted ways to hide guns in cars and storage items.

On my crim, I got caught once with an illegal .50 at the pier. I never got caught again with a pistol visible other than in a situation where I was using it (e.g a shootout, robbery).

TLDR: Drive around with weapons visible, bring attention to yourself and it's on you for being arrested.

 

I guess the answer to this is that it is dependent on the criminal. Some try to hide their weapons and some don't. It is that simple. There is really no right way to roleplay a criminal. Some methods may be smarter than others and some not so much. Either way, I do not really think this is a problem. Personally, I always tried to hide my guns. I would even have a .50 in a briefcase to be safe. On the other hand, I remember going to my apartment a few months ago and someone casually ran out with a micro SMG in their hand. There is nothing really wrong with this. Other than the chances of getting caught are higher.

 

[tylxrrr]

51 minutes ago, Denza said:

The first two encounters are deffinitely correct in terms of punishment given, however I don't see how the third encounter is Non-RP considering the vast ammount of shit that actually happens in real life on a constant basis. Officer wasn't harmed and was put into his trunk and locked with his radio so the individuals have a better chance of escaping and/or avoiding prison considering the firearms they had on them. I personally dislike how things like this are even reported if the officer didn't lose anything.

I agree. I think the second report would have ended up similar to the third if the deputies complied. First time watching it, I thought the deputies broke fear RP. It could probably be argued that they did break fear RP considering the time it took to get going. The Police Novak might have been a problem though. Nonetheless, I think it was a fast situation and I am assuming that the Novak couldn't chase after the Komoda due the preservation of the officers' lives.

[jason]

As this discussion has long since been concluded, it will now be locked & archived.

Thank you to all of those that participated in a respectful discussion.