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enantioM

The current state of Eclipse-RP

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When I first joined this server, I would walk up to people with these nice cars and I would ask, "how did you get that? What you do for a living?". Every single time I hear the same shit. "I fish". The next dude, "I fish". Next person, "Oh I fish". Why is this? Because nobody can even be bothered to waste their lives doing this boring and monotonous script jobs. So what's the next best thing that creates some social interaction? "Well I can just stand here and fish for hours and at least here I can talk to people while I grind".  And the reply here is always, "you do not have to grind, join a faction". 

These factions do not align with my character as a roleplayer, if I want to start a business, I need a ton of capital. I want to make my money doing jobs that align well with my character personality and goals, not join a random group just so I can get around grinding these script jobs. Make more apps on the phone that are for hire services, and change the script jobs to have some sort of delivery systems for these.

You can weed out the bad RPers by creating systems where people can more easily achieve their character goals without having to grind hours on end without much player interaction.  

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I think a lot can be taken from this, but this must not be brushed under the mat like every other suggestion and discussion about improvements in the past. There have been no community driven decision through means of polls for example. The most active part of this forum is the suggestions section, which really says a lot right now. 

What would admins and developers suggest right now for us as a community? Because despite all the constructive criticism and improvements, nothing is changing, nothing is seen to be considered and there is no way to quantify the demand if no community-orientated feedback is given. 

Truly, when was the last time you actively engaged with the community to directly ask for our opinion on an aspect of the server, to say whether they like it or not? Because people are making posts after posts about it which are just being ignored.

 

Edited by enantioM
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4 hours ago, enantioM said:

 

Apparently posting this got me banned on discord. Not sure how much offense people take from constructive criticism but that's quite hilarious nevertheless. 

I completely agree with everything you said. They also banned me on discord because I backed you up telling the moderator that he doesn't like when the truth is spoken. That's really sad.

Edited by evo
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3 hours ago, jason said:

Our most recent discord ban was issued 2 hours before this post was made. Please do not spread misinformation. 

I did indeed get banned by a staff member on discord simply because they were annoyed by my message there. There was nothing more to it. Several minutes after I discussed my opinion in a non aggressive or offensive way, Angel reminded me of rules number 4 and kindly reminded me to create a post on the forums about it, which is what I did. There was a mutual understanding, nothing more, nothing less. Evo and several others agreed with what I said and after checking back to my discord when I made this post, I was banned from your discord server. So the "misinformation" is actually legitimate, and I'd like to be unbanned as that was very immature and irrational on whoever's behalf that was.

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11 minutes ago, enantioM said:

I did indeed get banned by a staff member on discord simply because they were annoyed by my message there. There was nothing more to it. Several minutes after I discussed my opinion in a non aggressive or offensive way, Angel reminded me of rules number 4 and kindly reminded me to create a post on the forums about it, which is what I did. There was a mutual understanding, nothing more, nothing less. Evo and several others agreed with what I said and after checking back to my discord when I made this post, I was banned from your discord server. So the "misinformation" is actually legitimate, and I'd like to be unbanned as that was very immature and irrational on whoever's behalf that was.

What's your discord name?

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1 minute ago, enantioM said:

I pm'd it to you mate 

image.png.52588ac2e6195cde0d0498650daec7fd.png

Here's the time of your ban.

 

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Here's the time your post was made.

 

You were not banned for this post. If you want, I can send you the uncensored ban information in your PMs.

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Moving on from this, I really would like any engagement from even a single developer or staff member who is responsible for adding updates to the server? Please could a staff member help me here because it just doesn't add up to how much feedback it given and how little is actually done. 

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not that Jason speaks for entire staff or anything of the sort but really could one or more people who are directly responsible for content creation on the server look at this? or any of the posts with massive support over 6 months on the forums? why do they never get looked at? why do they never become implemented? will they ever or we at a stand still? is there a labor shortage? it would be nice to have anything other than radio silence. I even see some mods/admins going out of their way to suggest clearly positive changes that would have a good lasting impact on the roleplay and even those are largely ignored.

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5 minutes ago, strangur said:

not that Jason speaks for entire staff or anything of the sort but really could one or more people who are directly responsible for content creation on the server look at this? or any of the posts with massive support over 6 months on the forums? why do they never get looked at? why do they never become implemented? will they ever or we at a stand still? is there a labor shortage? it would be nice to have anything other than radio silence. I even see some mods/admins going out of their way to suggest clearly positive changes that would have a good lasting impact on the roleplay and even those are largely ignored.

The suggestions forum is not ignored. The devs look at every suggestion and will pick ones to add. Often times player suggestions may sound good to other players, but don't make sense in the balancing or realism aspects that the devs are aiming for. Suggestions can sit untouched for a while and be implemented later on. The devs have a private trello they use for their roadmap of the server. I'm sure their ideas are prioritized over suggestions that require heavy balancing adjustments and discussion within the senior staff team regarding realism and rules surrounding said suggestions.

Almost all of the updates in the past 2 years have been mostly comprised of server suggestions.

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7 minutes ago, jason said:

The suggestions forum is not ignored. The devs look at every suggestion and will pick ones to add. Often times player suggestions may sound good to other players, but don't make sense in the balancing or realism aspects that the devs are aiming for. Suggestions can sit untouched for a while and be implemented later on. The devs have a private trello they use for their roadmap of the server. I'm sure their ideas are prioritized over suggestions that require heavy balancing adjustments and discussion within the senior staff team regarding realism and rules surrounding said suggestion.

Almost all of the updates in the past 2 years have been mostly comprised of server suggestions.

Again, Sure I could understand that. However no replies on the forum post, and very very very very few changes. could they at least say "hey were considering this in the future! we will update you if we take a second look" or "no way we could do this, Legit not possible with the engine" or "we are going to begin working on this!" instead nothing is said. No major changes in a while, every single serious post with serious support includes the pros, the cons, awareness of possible imbalances, current imbalances and consideration that these changes take a considerable amount of time and effort. Often mentioning how much they are willing to pay or donate to see these changes implemented. Sometimes other servers have some of these suggested changes, some of them are minor quality of life changes that could be so simple like changing fuel consumption. Im just not buying that the dev team is so busy adding minor bug fixes for 6-9 months that they cant consider a larger project, or even reply to it. Someones previous comments about how OSRS does it is correct IMO. If not community polled changes, which would be the definition of giving the people what they want, at least some more transparency or a more fleshed out dev blog of whats coming so people can feel like they are being heard or get excited about upcoming changes.

Edited by strangur
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1 minute ago, strangur said:

Again, Sure I could understand that. However no replies on the forum post, and very very very very few changes. could they at least say "hey were considering this in the future! we will update you if we take a second look" or "no way we could do this, Legit not possible with the engine" or "we are going to begin working on this!" instead nothing is said. No major changes in a while, every single serious post with serious support includes the pros, the cons, awareness of possible imbalances, current imbalances and consideration that these changes take a considerable amount of time and effort. Often mentioning how much they are willing to pay or donate to see these changes implemented. Sometimes other servers have some of these suggested changes, some of them are minor quality of life changes that could be so simple like changing fuel consumption. Im just not buying that the dev team is so busy adding minor bug fixes for 6-9 months that they cant consider a larger project, or even reply to it. Someones previous comments about how OSRS does it is correct IMO. If not community polled changes, which would be the definition of giving the people what they want, at least some more transparency or a more fleshed out dev blog of whats coming so people can feel like they are being heard or get excited about upcoming changes.

The issue with allowing people to know what is coming into the server is that it leads to metagaming within the economy and meta of the server. Every time a vehicle is removed from the server, people find out about it OOCly just before or just as it happens and will use it to their advantage. We can't pick and choose which ones we reply to otherwise people will just assume everything that's not replied to will be denied. 

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1 minute ago, jason said:

The issue with allowing people to know what is coming into the server is that it leads to metagaming within the economy and meta of the server. Every time a vehicle is removed from the server, people find out about it OOCly just before or just as it happens and will use it to their advantage. We can't pick and choose which ones we reply to otherwise people will just assume everything that's not replied to will be denied. 

Thats just a hyper-relevant example of how the addition/removal of a car will affect the economy. Yeah for sure this can happen, but that is literally only one example where a car being added or removed could lead to metagaming. How would changing, for example, legal jobs or adding more criminal jobs result in metagaming? I can see how that single example could have some adverse effects, but that just doesn't seem a plausible reason to not add updates in general? Overall it just does't excuse the fact we receive no feedback from the developers whatsoever, we see none of the extremely popular updates come into play (with even the backing of several members of staff) nor are we asked what we think about something. 

Again, take a look at the patch notes for the past year. It's just crazy how little has been changed, mostly just adding fixes to systems already in place which of course we appreciate, but it's absurd. 

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4 minutes ago, jason said:

The issue with allowing people to know what is coming into the server is that it leads to metagaming within the economy and meta of the server. Every time a vehicle is removed from the server, people find out about it OOCly just before or just as it happens and will use it to their advantage. We can't pick and choose which ones we reply to otherwise people will just assume everything that's not replied to will be denied. 

Sure, not every detail needs to be in a dev blog, blog post or known coming change. Something would be nice though. The only changes i have heard about is DOJ and Casino. other than that theres nothing coming from the dev team. There are plenty of things they could share that likley would not be used to metagame as there not always actionable information. on top of that, its announced that we are adding DOJ, we elect a justice, then silence... until... its released? I see devs of other servers live stream them adding textures or vehicles, that surely could be used as metagame, but nobody really cares because thats a small small portion of the work that they do. Theres so much they do that we would like to hear about that cant be meta'd. Also... Just not replying to very positively supported forum posts clearly is not a good way to do it as there is zero communication as to it being possible, impossible, in the works, on the shelf for now ect... so we have a suggestion page on the forum and we are just supposed to guess what gets implemented? even if it has a massive outcry of support we cant get a simple "were working on it."  If you replied to some and not others people would not instantly assume its denied they would accept that a dev hasnt seen it yet or that it wouldnt have enough support yet. Seems like advocating literal silence just isnt the way. Playing for months on end and little discussion of major changes. theres either MASSIVE updates coming... or there really isnt and we just arent talking about it. 

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7 hours ago, enantioM said:

Apparently posting this got me banned on discord. Not sure how much offense people take from constructive criticism but that's quite hilarious nevertheless. 

I think there's a way to be critical of something, without getting yourself yeeted from anything.

8 hours ago, enantioM said:

This thread has been started for others to express and share their feelings about the current state of the server. 
[DISCLAIMER]: THIS IS MY HONEST AND PERSONAL REVIEW.  YOU ARE ALL ENTITLED TO YOURS, SO FEEL FREE TO COMMUNICATE THEM BACK


It's sad to say this, but it feels pointless trying to suggest improvements here anymore, regardless of whether there is a good idea in discussion.  After looking through the suggestion threads almost every day, there are a lot of good ideas which are pushed aside and shunned by admins. I don't know why 99% of credible suggestions are never pushed forward or end up on the server. Is it because you guys see how much time that it would take to script and immediately push it aside, or just because nobody checks this to gain enough traction, or is it because you have put up with poorly built systems for so long you have just mentally accepted it to be ok? I can only assume these things as it's just so unclear to why very little has been done.

I think in all honesty, you have to temper your expectations when it comes to the suggestion forum. This is not a project in the construction phase where it's about building what the server is, it's about maintenance of the old with some implementation of new systems.

I say this as someone that's made some pretty well received threads on those forums, but while something might be a great idea on paper, there are reasons why the majority of those suggestions don't make it to the server. it's not that they are shunned by administrators, the admin team doesn't decide what is implemented and what is not, the developers do.

Those are the same developers that founded this community and created it's script between them. Considering the popularity and longevity of the project, I'd say they've done pretty well and deserve some respect for that. They also have the right to choose what goes in and what does not.

I don't take it personally if my ideas don't get added and to be honest, I've spent a significant period of time over the past couple months working on spec to add some things to the server. There are no guarantees that that stuff will go in, but that's not the point. Because I've approached them in the right way and been respectful, they're more open to the ideas I might put forward.

There are bugs in the script but show me a server that doesn't bug fix and I'll show you a server that doesn't develop anything. Like you and me, the developers have lives and responsibilities outside of coding.

8 hours ago, enantioM said:

Have a look at either the changelogs or the #development tab and try and find at least one major update; within the past 8 months, there have literally been no significant changes to the server. If you exclude all the bug fixes and the tiny additions of small items being added to the import list, extra furniture, some more cars at the dealership, extra things on the credit-shop and extra commands for police/admins or additions to government buildings, you find nothing significant that helps improve what is wrong with the server. The forum is host to rational and reasonable suggestions/changes to help players, something that looks to be treated poorly by the staff team. 

It's subjective really. You might look at the development tab and not really see anything to you but for example, adding the police vehicles opens up the server to adding additional custom vehicles down the road. Not just for government factions, but other parts of the server too. Adding the EUP uniforms to the server might benefit the government factions but it's also the first step in adding custom clothing to the server. 

Since you have brought up Furniture, I personally spent the best part of 12 hours collecting those two lists of furniture. There is currently a final list with about 350 objects to be implemented as we speak, but that extra furniture has afforded people of all areas in the server to customise their homes and businesses. 

Yes, you know what, I think it would be fantastic if we added the Cayo Perico idea I suggested or the Criminal Overhaul suggestion thread. I think it would likely improve the criminal side of things significantly, but if it doesn't go in, I'm not going to make a thread about it.

Eclipse is not perfect, there are things that could definitely be improved but I wouldn't play anywhere else for GTA V.
You just have to decide whether you can play in the server the way it is. If you can, great. If not, I'm sure you'll find enjoyment somewhere else. What I don't like is those people that do not enjoy the server, but rather than go elsewhere and find enjoyment, they linger like a foul odour and try to ruin it for other people.

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1 hour ago, Bala said:

I think there's a way to be critical of something, without getting yourself yeeted from anything.

I think in all honesty, you have to temper your expectations when it comes to the suggestion forum. This is not a project in the construction phase where it's about building what the server is, it's about maintenance of the old with some implementation of new systems.

I say this as someone that's made some pretty well received threads on those forums, but while something might be a great idea on paper, there are reasons why the majority of those suggestions don't make it to the server. it's not that they are shunned by administrators, the admin team doesn't decide what is implemented and what is not, the developers do.

Those are the same developers that founded this community and created it's script between them. Considering the popularity and longevity of the project, I'd say they've done pretty well and deserve some respect for that. They also have the right to choose what goes in and what does not.

I don't take it personally if my ideas don't get added and to be honest, I've spent a significant period of time over the past couple months working on spec to add some things to the server. There are no guarantees that that stuff will go in, but that's not the point. Because I've approached them in the right way and been respectful, they're more open to the ideas I might put forward.

There are bugs in the script but show me a server that doesn't bug fix and I'll show you a server that doesn't develop anything. Like you and me, the developers have lives and responsibilities outside of coding.

It's subjective really. You might look at the development tab and not really see anything to you but for example, adding the police vehicles opens up the server to adding additional custom vehicles down the road. Not just for government factions, but other parts of the server too. Adding the EUP uniforms to the server might benefit the government factions but it's also the first step in adding custom clothing to the server. 

Since you have brought up Furniture, I personally spent the best part of 12 hours collecting those two lists of furniture. There is currently a final list with about 350 objects to be implemented as we speak, but that extra furniture has afforded people of all areas in the server to customise their homes and businesses. 

Yes, you know what, I think it would be fantastic if we added the Cayo Perico idea I suggested or the Criminal Overhaul suggestion thread. I think it would likely improve the criminal side of things significantly, but if it doesn't go in, I'm not going to make a thread about it.

Eclipse is not perfect, there are things that could definitely be improved but I wouldn't play anywhere else for GTA V.
You just have to decide whether you can play in the server the way it is. If you can, great. If not, I'm sure you'll find enjoyment somewhere else. What I don't like is those people that do not enjoy the server, but rather than go elsewhere and find enjoyment, they linger like a foul odour and try to ruin it for other people.

again somewhat agreeable, but I still dont see why radio silence on development is a good thing. not salty about like my ideas not making it in. Read my posts, that isnt my point. Just would like to see whats going on if anything because it doesnt appear to be and there is little to no communication which is almost never a good thing. and lets be honest if you are a crim, a civilian or a cop... the servers felt the same for a bit and the changes are just more commands for some scripted jobs, the addition of a few more drop/sell points for jobs and bug fixes. Oh and corners job. for months.

Edited by strangur
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Firstly thanks for your opinion on that. I see where are coming from with some things.
 

1 hour ago, Bala said:

I say this as someone that's made some pretty well received threads on those forums, but while something might be a great idea on paper, there are reasons why the majority of those suggestions don't make it to the server. it's not that they are shunned by administrators, the admin team doesn't decide what is implemented and what is not, the developers do.

There is an infamous history on the Eclipse forums to where people get carried away and are just bashing on staff, being silenced because they express their feelings in a rude and terrible manner. I've seen it for myself and I'm sure we can both agree people have gone about expressing these issues in the wrong way, which is a shame because often the underlying message resonates with many others.

 

1 hour ago, Bala said:

Yes, you know what, I think it would be fantastic if we added the Cayo Perico idea I suggested or the Criminal Overhaul suggestion thread. I think it would likely improve the criminal side of things significantly, but if it doesn't go in, I'm not going to make a thread about it.


Lets take the legal and criminal job system right now as it is; I have discussed this matter both publicly and privately and I could accumulate a bountiful list of positively made threads that have been made about both the existing problems within the legal and criminal job scene, as well as the improvements that could be made for them. I don't exaggerate when I say that the primary reason many do not enjoy playing on the server right now is because of the job system and methods of making money right now. It feels dry and simply dull doing the legal jobs as they are right now, and there is almost zero roleplaying interaction between players during these. 

1 hour ago, Bala said:

Eclipse is not perfect, there are things that could definitely be improved but I wouldn't play anywhere else for GTA V.
You just have to decide whether you can play in the server the way it is. If you can, great. If not, I'm sure you'll find enjoyment somewhere else. What I don't like is those people that do not enjoy the server, but rather than go elsewhere and find enjoyment, they linger like a foul odour and try to ruin it for other people. 

Well that's the thing, you guys have openly explained the problems with the server, and lets not be light with the word 'problems' because they are problems, jason highlighted them himself before about legal jobs and you yourself have agreed its not perfect nor does the criminal system provide sufficient roleplaying activity as it potentially could. I don't suddenly have a "foul odor" nor am I "trying to ruin things for others" simply because I am actively highlighting issues that many agree with. Why would I spend so much time trying to point these issues out if I didn't care for the server? If I didn't care about the server and was trying to "ruin it for others", I wouldn't dare bother even trying to make such an effort to sort this issue out. 

This leads onto the biggest issue here. A problem regarding what is true, and what isn't. We all of course have opinions, and every day staff members explain that either a suggestion "wouldn't be the best for the server" or "yes I really do think this would be good for the server". The problem here is that good suggestions that do gain a lot of traction with positive support are never followed through with whether or not you think its a good or bad decision. 

1 hour ago, Bala said:

there are reasons why the majority of those suggestions don't make it to the server. it's not that they are shunned by administrators, the admin team doesn't decide what is implemented and what is not, the developers do.

So here it is, something everybody should know. I'm glad that you've clarified every other staff member (other than the developers) have no influence on these decision, so people can finally look back and reference through their posts to see how little developers have engaged with us. (Spoiler alert, they don't!) 

The developers themselves DO NOT engage with this community to an acceptable standard with regards to suggestions. If you say they do, they really do not and I'm not bashing them here, it's just true. Go check the developer's forum activity. I can assure you will only find walls of player reports on their activity profile. The engagement towards in-game issues and suggestions is just not in any means substantial.  A simple cluster of "+1" has clearly only done so much for us right now. There have been and currently are no methods of having a fair, poll-related judgement from the community on any of these matters. I agree, there are many suggestions which aren't great, but by having this system we can see both sides of the story. This is a place for developers to engage with us, not ignore us.  If you say they consider many of these, its just empty claims. We simply do not see any engagement with hot topics and problems with the current system. 

Coders are coders. They are smart people and are the reason why we have these scripts, that I openly appreciate so thank you. But hey do not suddenly hold the inherently superhuman capability of making the best decision for the server, simply because they have the responsibility to do so. Yes, they do have a much better understanding than most here! But if you truly expect people to have a deeper connection with the community and you guys as a staff team, our suggestions have to be shown to be taken seriously, otherwise like you mentioned, people are going to leave which is a big shame. 

Edited by enantioM
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54 minutes ago, strangur said:

again somewhat agreeable, but I still dont see why radio silence on development is a good thing. not salty about like my ideas not making it in. Read my posts, that isnt my point. Just would like to see whats going on if anything because it doesnt appear to be and there is little to no communication which is almost never a good thing. and lets be honest if you are a crim, a civilian or a cop... the servers felt the same for a bit and the changes are just more commands for some scripted jobs, the addition of a few more drop/sell points for jobs and bug fixes. Oh and corners job. for months.

I'm not in a position to speak for anyone, but at a guess, it's partly a time issue. By that, I mean what free time the guys have to devote to developing is spent developing, not talking about what they're going to do. 

Could they do a road-map? Perhaps, but then also, would they want to box themselves in for months? As soon as you promise something, there is an expectation to deliver then. If it doesn't happen when they say it will, they get killed for it. Sometimes issues come up or things become available that mean other things go on the backburner.

I think also sometimes, some of the community can be quite disrespectful with their feedback and I'd imagine that can make you not want to engage with people. I'm sure you guys remember the tab name thing and the (( TABBED OUT )) feature that was added a couple months back. That was put in, it wasn't very well received, they listened and eventually removed it so they do listen, they just can't listen to everyone, all the time.

I agree, there are some areas that feel a little stagnant and in need of work. I'm a full time cop on this server, don't really use my alts but the criminals definitely need some love. I hope they do get it at some point.

But, I think we also need to be a little more tactful in how we give our feedback.

Edited by Bala
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52 minutes ago, Bala said:

I'm not in a position to speak for anyone, but at a guess, it's partly a time issue. By that, I mean what free time the guys have to devote to developing is spent developing, not talking about what they're going to do. 

Could they do a road-map? Perhaps, but then also, would they want to box themselves in for months? As soon as you promise something, there is an expectation to deliver then. If it doesn't happen when they say it will, they get killed for it. Sometimes issues come up or things become available that mean other things go on the backburner.

I think also sometimes, some of the community can be quite disrespectful with their feedback and I'd imagine that can make you not want to engage with people. I'm sure you guys remember the tab name thing and the (( TABBED OUT )) feature that was added a couple months back. That was put in, it wasn't very well received, they listened and eventually removed it so they do listen, they just can't listen to everyone, all the time.

I agree, there are some areas that feel a little stagnant and in need of work. I'm a full time cop on this server, don't really use my alts but the criminals definitely need some love. I hope they do get it at some point.

But, I think we also need to be a little more tactful in how we give our feedback.

Im going to continue to strongly advocate for a road map or some sort of communication. Im sure the devs dont do everything for free, and at the end of the day I do not believe they would be crucified for missing a deadline, people just would like to know that things are coming or how things are coming along and if it wasnt set in stone that would be fine too, people would continue playing just as they did before. I completely understand they have lives outside of this game and that for some it is a passion project but its disheartening to play and see nothing change both in the meta, and overall. I raise these questions to heighten the experience of the server not bash on devs. Other servers do have a system where they either reply to most suggestions that have any popularity, A passed or denied section, or simply reply some of the time. I want to continue to feel good about the server im playing both in its current state and looking forward. Its hard to do when there is little info coming out. 

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Advocating for communication is fine. That doesnt mean you have any right to the future information on development. What devs have for ideas or projects are up to them to decide to share. Some ideas we try dont work and in testing they get scrapped, making community hype and then removing it will just generate more posts like this talking about ideals and communication. 

 

They share what they can when its appropriate and there also are times features that are best recieved in a new update, or are tested & reviewed after implementation, not promised and permanent features. 

 

Thanks for the suggestion on communication, we will be re-creating a new community suggestions team for the forum sections in the near future as well which will accomplish the feedback piece you're looking for I believe.

 

Enjoy ECRP

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