enantioM

Firstly thanks for your opinion on that. I see where are coming from with some things. There is an infamous history on the Eclipse forums to where people get carried away and are just bashing on staff, being silenced because they express their feelings in a rude and terrible manner. I've seen it for myself and I'm sure we can both agree people have gone about expressing these issues in the wrong way, which is a shame because often the underlying message resonates with many others. Lets take the legal and criminal job system right now as it is; I have discussed this matter both publicly and privately and I could accumulate a bountiful list of positively made threads that have been made about both the existing problems within the legal and criminal job scene, as well as the improvements that could be made for them. I don't exaggerate when I say that the primary reason many do not enjoy playing on the server right now is because of the job system and methods of making money right now. It feels dry and simply dull doing the legal jobs as they are right now, and there is almost zero roleplaying interaction between players during these. Well that's the thing, you guys have openly explained the problems with the server, and lets not be light with the word 'problems' because they are problems, jason highlighted them himself before about legal jobs and you yourself have agreed its not perfect nor does the criminal system provide sufficient roleplaying activity as it potentially could. I don't suddenly have a "foul odor" nor am I "trying to ruin things for others" simply because I am actively highlighting issues that many agree with. Why would I spend so much time trying to point these issues out if I didn't care for the server? If I didn't care about the server and was trying to "ruin it for others", I wouldn't dare bother even trying to make such an effort to sort this issue out. This leads onto the biggest issue here. A problem regarding what is true, and what isn't. We all of course have opinions, and every day staff members explain that either a suggestion "wouldn't be the best for the server" or "yes I really do think this would be good for the server". The problem here is that good suggestions that do gain a lot of traction with positive support are never followed through with whether or not you think its a good or bad decision. So here it is, something everybody should know. I'm glad that you've clarified every other staff member (other than the developers) have no influence on these decision, so people can finally look back and reference through their posts to see how little developers have engaged with us. (Spoiler alert, they don't!) The developers themselves DO NOT engage with this community to an acceptable standard with regards to suggestions. If you say they do, they really do not and I'm not bashing them here, it's just true. Go check the developer's forum activity. I can assure you will only find walls of player reports on their activity profile. The engagement towards in-game issues and suggestions is just not in any means substantial. A simple cluster of "+1" has clearly only done so much for us right now. There have been and currently are no methods of having a fair, poll-related judgement from the community on any of these matters. I agree, there are many suggestions which aren't great, but by having this system we can see both sides of the story. This is a place for developers to engage with us, not ignore us. If you say they consider many of these, its just empty claims. We simply do not see any engagement with hot topics and problems with the current system. Coders are coders. They are smart people and are the reason why we have these scripts, that I openly appreciate so thank you. But hey do not suddenly hold the inherently superhuman capability of making the best decision for the server, simply because they have the responsibility to do so. Yes, they do have a much better understanding than most here! But if you truly expect people to have a deeper connection with the community and you guys as a staff team, our suggestions have to be shown to be taken seriously, otherwise like you mentioned, people are going to leave which is a big shame.

Thats just a hyper-relevant example of how the addition/removal of a car will affect the economy. Yeah for sure this can happen, but that is literally only one example where a car being added or removed could lead to metagaming. How would changing, for example, legal jobs or adding more criminal jobs result in metagaming? I can see how that single example could have some adverse effects, but that just doesn't seem a plausible reason to not add updates in general? Overall it just does't excuse the fact we receive no feedback from the developers whatsoever, we see none of the extremely popular updates come into play (with even the backing of several members of staff) nor are we asked what we think about something. Again, take a look at the patch notes for the past year. It's just crazy how little has been changed, mostly just adding fixes to systems already in place which of course we appreciate, but it's absurd.

Moving on from this, I really would like any engagement from even a single developer or staff member who is responsible for adding updates to the server? Please could a staff member help me here because it just doesn't add up to how much feedback it given and how little is actually done.

Please DM me the information, thank you

I pm'd it to you mate

I did indeed get banned by a staff member on discord simply because they were annoyed by my message there. There was nothing more to it. Several minutes after I discussed my opinion in a non aggressive or offensive way, Angel reminded me of rules number 4 and kindly reminded me to create a post on the forums about it, which is what I did. There was a mutual understanding, nothing more, nothing less. Evo and several others agreed with what I said and after checking back to my discord when I made this post, I was banned from your discord server. So the "misinformation" is actually legitimate, and I'd like to be unbanned as that was very immature and irrational on whoever's behalf that was.

I think a lot can be taken from this, but this must not be brushed under the mat like every other suggestion and discussion about improvements in the past. There have been no community driven decision through means of polls for example. The most active part of this forum is the suggestions section, which really says a lot right now. What would admins and developers suggest right now for us as a community? Because despite all the constructive criticism and improvements, nothing is changing, nothing is seen to be considered and there is no way to quantify the demand if no community-orientated feedback is given. Truly, when was the last time you actively engaged with the community to directly ask for our opinion on an aspect of the server, to say whether they like it or not? Because people are making posts after posts about it which are just being ignored.

Why are these things not being actively polled and voted on by the community? As you said here, legal jobs have very little interaction and roleplay. This is really what we are all talking about in this case; the fact that these jobs are on a roleplaying server, when no roleplaying is encouraged through them. Hundreds of people have suggested new jobs simply because these do no accommodate such a thing. I think this is why people want to have more money from them just because of how boring and non-interactive they are and to compensate for that. I brought up the lack of interesting criminal activities because the potential roleplaying from things such as NPC house robberies, Oxy runs, jewelry shop robbery, illegal street racing system, prison breakouts... are so much more appealing right now, a small list of examples that have all been suggested.

The 10-20k cut figure is as accurate as it can get in a big group, you took that completely out of context. And when you say bank robberies dont get RP'd well is why I brought up how the standards have dropped, and me and my group of friends that actively participate in bank robberies are, without being cocky, ensuring we do our very very best to create humorous and unique interactions with the negotiator for example.

Simply put, zero relevant content is being added. Things that many have actively and positively advocated for months on end are simply swept under the mat. We do not feel valued at all, with topics being closed when criticism is fairly dealt. If you provide a platform for your community to give you feedback on what is right and wrong, it's terrible to throw it back at our face and dismiss all these people providing some amazing feedback.

I appreciate everybody here has their own opinion, which is great. However, I'm really trying my best to highlight how almost nobody with power is taking any of these suggestions into consideration. Development and patch-notes reflect that very clearly, and despite how much following, upvotes and agreement there seems to be with some points on the server, nothing is every carried through. The systems are not perfect, and I'm not targeting any member of staff because of that, but we really want things to change for the better to make it an enjoyable experience. Many many people here feel like their suggestions are not appreciated because of how little effort there has been to both add more content and listen to their suggestions.

I started this topic to discuss the poor amount of feedback that is appreciated as well as considered for the server. We are simply discussing sub-topics we think need improving, which naturally leads on from this. If there is a problem that involves crim vs pd, why isn't this the place to talk about it? We aren't all trying to focus on that one point and none of us are "bashing staff". I simply made a post that has already quickly made a lot of traction and is exactly the point im trying to make. There are clearly lots of people who do not think the systems, scripts and content you have right now are by any means perfect, and there is A LOT to improve on, thus we are giving feedback. This is a prime example of something that is commonly disregarded, as explained in the original post. I want to keep this as civil as possible but please let us get our points across, because its frustrating to see so many do it in the wrong way.

This right here.

Can you give me an example to better understand your point there?

Right, so here's the problem with that. The amount of cops online doesn't correctly reflect those who are active and present at the scene of the heist. There could be 60 cops online one day and have 15 there at the heist. Whereas the next, there's 30 online and still the same amount of cops at the heist. The force could even be stronger with fewer cops online, with the same amount being there at the bank. That's so say a bank is even off cooldown, let alone get lucky with the amount of cops online. Again, its the roll of the dice, more RNG that doesn't favor the player.

such as the banks having low payout, if you have to rely on the script completely I don't know what to tell you Go and list every false thing in there my friend instead of making a bland sentence with no substance to it. The bank payout is never the same. One day it was around $500k, the other it was around $300k [after laundering]. There's even luck with the amount of money you get, so that's more RNG against you.

Apparently posting this got me banned on discord. Not sure how much offense people take from constructive criticism but that's quite hilarious nevertheless.

This thread has been started for others to express and share their feelings about the current state of the server. [DISCLAIMER]: THIS IS MY HONEST AND PERSONAL REVIEW. YOU ARE ALL ENTITLED TO YOURS, SO FEEL FREE TO COMMUNICATE THEM BACK It's sad to say this, but it feels pointless trying to suggest improvements here anymore, regardless of whether there is a good idea in discussion. After looking through the suggestion threads almost every day, there are a lot of good ideas which are pushed aside and shunned by admins. I don't know why 99% of credible suggestions are never pushed forward or end up on the server. Is it because you guys see how much time that it would take to script and immediately push it aside, or just because nobody checks this to gain enough traction, or is it because you have put up with poorly built systems for so long you have just mentally accepted it to be ok? I can only assume these things as it's just so unclear to why very little has been done. Have a look at either the changelogs or the #development tab and try and find at least one major update; within the past 8 months, there have literally been no significant changes to the server. If you exclude all the bug fixes and the tiny additions of small items being added to the import list, extra furniture, some more cars at the dealership, extra things on the credit-shop and extra commands for police/admins or additions to government buildings, you find nothing significant that helps improve what is wrong with the server. The forum is host to rational and reasonable suggestions/changes to help players, something that looks to be treated poorly by the staff team. Legal Jobs: Jobs in the city are genuinely the most boring shit I have ever experienced and they feel like dull, monotonous chores that pay terribly. People don't pick which job they want to do out of enjoyment, but instead the money they receive from it. Right now, mining will make you the most if you know a trick or two with crates and an RV. The job itself is in a reasonably good state but the NCZ's are so poorly explained and enforced on this server. New players ignore those rules every single day, and will try to rob you as soon as you get in your vehicle outside the mine. The bus route is and has been the second best consistent and safe money making job since the addition of the Paleto route. As a result, it's accumulated with braindead children who trash your car ignoring every single road rule that has ever existed. Nobody actually enjoys doing this job but the money is so much better per hour than most jobs. The city bus route is a joke and pays twice as less, there is literally no point in doing it. Postal delivery is bad. It is so much of an RNG fest that it solely depends on whether or not you get a job in the hills (your shitty van can barely even get up them), the distance and the number of packages you get before you have to travel all the way across the map to just refill your van. The armored van money deliveries, despite also subjected to bad RNG, pays an ok amount but also falls so short because of its terrible torque getting up hills. Farming is an RNG fest but in a completely different way. Out of 10 full crop-rotations I completed, half of them were stolen by other farmers with zero RP. I always made sure to lock my van whenever I wasn't taking crops out the back but you can't keep the car locked and open the back doors at the same time, so people just abuse you being stuck in the harvesting animations, as there is no way to cancel them. This has been mentioned countless times and nothing has been done about it. Woodcutting is mediocre with pay, nothing special, nothing awfully exciting. Trucking is abysmal: despite countless people complaining about the loading times, the poor pay/time spent ratio and huge inconsistency in pay, it remains as one of the most deserted jobs. The garbage truck job can be ok pay, that's as long as there aren't more than 3 doing it at the same time otherwise you have travel to the other ends of the city because the respawn rates are so bad it isn't viable anymore. The toll booth is just appalling. Whilst having so much RNG involved with how much you get paid, half the people glitch-ram their way through the barrier or just wait until somebody else goes through to avoid paying and go behind them. Fishing is the most relaxing and requires the least amount of effort out of them all, which is why you find half of the city's population at the pier all talking to each other about how shit the other jobs are. The oil-rig drilling pays fairly well, but only if you've invested a lot into a truck, RV and some extra storage. Criminal jobs: Illegal work has no depth or content: Robbing banks seem worth it at first, but the amount of people you require and time spent preparing for it all you could have made the same amount of money doing bus routes at Paleto. I, and several other friends, have carried out bank robberies many times. Some were done with no more than 5 people, and even then having escaped with ALL cash, in both lockers and table, the cut after laundering was literal piss. But lets say you wanted to just go and rob another bank, what's stopping you? Well you're in luck because you can only do 1 hostage situation a week otherwise you get apprehended by an admin. In this case, your only option is to get a massive group to all rush the room in hope of escaping before any cops come. If that goes well, you've probably only come out with anything between $10,000-20,000 depending on the amount of people. The reward vs risk is again just terrible. Want to rob a store? Simply a 50/50 roll of the dice whether or not you get police patrolling past them and metagame out of their ass. If you get lucky and succeed with either of these jobs, you walk away with a relatively small amount of money. If you don't, you get locked up with the most ridiculous prison sentence, accommodated with the most dry role-playing experience you could imagine from a Cop type RP-ing. Want to get into the drug game? Don't, the money is shit unless you have 20+ tables running simultaneously. The profit for even the highest paying drugs is shocking, even after looking at all dealer NPC's. Pretty much any moderately entertaining illegal content is from gang engagement and shipments, but why should they be the only people who have access to the fun? The content has literally been designed around gangs. Overall, the amount of illegal jobs you can do is just stupidly sparse. Pretty much every other server I have played on has double the amount of criminal work, with twice the enjoyment. The risk vs reward on the server right now makes none of these illegal activities worth it. You will make more money participating in E-RP sucking some gremlin's toes in the nightclub than you will with anything in the city right now. Overall feel: The standard of RP in general is on the extreme low and I personally expected better from a larger whitelisted server such as this. It's rare to come across a unique character with a fun voice, detailed personality, character weaknesses that are actually portrayed properly and somebody who creates unique roleplaying scenes. It seems now that everybody roleplays as them self, letting events in game affect them personally IRL and hence reacting in such a boring, predictable and immature way. Nobody wants to sacrifice any potential success or personal gain in this server in return for a comedic and enjoyable roleplaying experience. I was lucky enough to find a very rare small group of good role-players, whom of which I stuck with for quite some time. Another huge problem on this server is racism. Call it what you want, "E-RP", ICC or whatever; there is simply no excuse to give room for people to call others the hard N-word because they got killed or beaten up. Most gang members think they are special and claim they are acting as their character, but really they are just racist, white prepubescent degenerates who want a free N-word pass. The amount of people breaking rules everyday its just absurd by looking at the report section here, and its clear that very immature people are being let in. The entry test to gain whitelist status is probably the easiest I have ever completed. It is simply copy and pasted information from forum threads. At the end of the day, you are all responsible for setting the standard here and whilst we appreciate banning those who break rules and some work by the staff here, the server is just so far from feeling like a completed experience and there is just an overall lack of effort when listening to the community.

+1. I struggle to find any point in doing this job in its current state, I wasted many hours testing all types of deliveries and never made a good amount per hour nor did I enjoy waiting so long to unload the units. The income vs time spent doing this job makes this job pointless personally.

+1. Not to mention how one small crash can destroy a bike

+1 The price of the fuel is not worth it considering the poor longevity of any vehicle right now.