Cop balance

[Perez1025]

Not trying to create a giant complain post but here are some things I think would help CRIM/COP RP as right now a lot of Crim's are being turned off from the server due to issues with cops. 

Have a set number of unmarked police cars. its unrealistic for half the force to be rolling around in unmarked cars. 

• Get rid of the crazy unreal high speeds like the banshee/niobe for police its completely real for civilians to have these cars as you see it IRL all the times but what police force actually sanctions these and use them in pursuits? Cops have AIR1 that is an advantage for them non cops need one as well. 

 

• Police need to not just pull out guns to entice fear RP rules. Example from recent interaction I had LS is represented of a city in California where I'm allowed to stand across the street and watch what cops are doing and say what i want as long as i don't go over or interfere, for me to do this and a cops pull a gun on me and point at me is insane I'm not going to name the cops that do this as there are more that don't than do but they shouldn't be pulling out there gun pointing it forcing me into  fear RP to leave cause they don't like I'm watching and protesting what they are doing. 

 

• Pitt maneuvers cops have way to much freedom with this pitting at 180KPH+ shouldn't be happening its insanely unreal and dangerous where we are all supposed to be valuing our lives. As such using high speeds to pit that just wouldn't happen it would be scouts, buffalos, machos..ect not high end cars that rply would cost the city tons to fix. 

 

• I'm sure people can add more these just some quick ones I see a lot we need each other to RP but right now i feel most cops have a win mentality and they just wanna win. I personally don't care about going to DOC no biggie but when I'm caught in a way that just clear they don't wanna lose its annoying. With this being said as well i know Crim's are not perfect I'm sure there's stuff we can improve on to make it make sense for both sides and I'm completely open to hearing them and trying them out I'm a firm believer in trying it before i knock it. 

 

[Perez1025]

And please lets not turn this into a debate of us vs them. lets get some suggestions from both sides id love some cops input on stuff Crim's can improve on. 

[Jokl]

- Get rid of all the meta cars for crims. Its crazy and unreal that every crim drives around in Niobe/LaCourouse, since you rarely see it IRL. 

- The situation you mentione where someone pulled a gun at you can be taken ICly, maby that cop should not have done that and you have a good case in more in-depth RP with cops through interal affairs? Who knows.

- Here is a fun video to watch, first video is a PIT been done going almost 170 km/h, but ye, its unrealistic to do so in a game.
PIT video

- I hope people can add more, but from the other side, lets stop running out from every bank passing heavy guns aimed at peoples heads (happens daily), using all the best metacars (W mentallity), i am sure people can ad more. 

[Perez1025]

as for the "meta cars" I'm heavily involved in my car community IRL i know plenty of us that have cars that cop cars have zero chance of keeping up with. We also have to remember the gangs in the city are ICLY connected with cartel and organized therefore isn't entirely unrealistic i think.  Also think of a LC as a Tesla these electric cars acceleration is crazy IRL and we see them all over everyday. 

I agree that could've been an ICLY taken event and have done so before unfortunately nothing comes of it so that is basically just a waste of time. 

the pitting car i see your point and my only thing would be it isn't an insanely expensive police cruiser doing the pit.

Bank think i 1000% agree with you, when I do banks on my crim and a cop has even a pistol pointed at me I put my hands up and stop, people shouldn't be running to their cars when cops have you at gunpoint and your unarmed. 

[Bala]

If you think its unacceptable to be pitted at 180 km/h, don't evade at 180 km/h, pretty simple shit really.
Players on the server drive as fast as the car they are in will go.

We have the cops we have, for the criminals we have. We have the criminals we have, for the server we have.

Frankly, all the cars in the server period go too fast. Pursuits and driving was actually more enjoyable when 200 was about the best you could hope for. The Diamond Casino update with things like the Rebla and Schlagen was probably around the peak period for driving. Now, it's hold the accelerate key down and just try not to crash simulator.

If you want realism, find yourself a different server. Don't complain that cops have parity with these meta vehicles that were only introduced for one reason and one reason only, that were only bought by people for one reason and one reason only. This is the way it is and the way it's likely always going to be.

Get in where you fit in.

[Tonywins]

When the cops use 8 cars for a pursuit, tons of undercover cars (even in gang colors), air-1, carry high end weaponry, can authorize use of force in EVERY situation, have high speed pursuit cars, have a heli with a minigun and then complain crims use a 'meta' car. Who is really using the meta? As a crim if u bump their car, you get shot. Meanwhile cops can ram crims until their car is red, cut them off in a way that does not regard their own life, safety, or safety of their equipment. Who's REALLY meta? Use of expensive equipment without fear or loss of life or equipment. No consequences. IA doesn't work. And I will say it, Admins play cops for a reason.

[Tonywins]

When the cops use 8 cars for a pursuit, tons of undercover cars (even in gang colors), air-1, carry high end weaponry, can authorize use of force in EVERY situation, have high speed pursuit cars, have a heli with a minigun and then complain crims use a 'meta' car. Who is really using the meta? As a crim if u bump their car, you get shot. Meanwhile cops can ram crims until their car is red, cut them off in a way that does not regard their own life, safety, or safety of their equipment. Who's REALLY meta? Use of expensive equipment without fear or loss of life or equipment. No consequences. IA doesn't work. And I will say it, Admins play cops for a reason.

[Hubie]

4 hours ago, Jokl said:

Get rid of all the meta cars for crims. Its crazy and unreal that every crim drives around in Niobe/LaCourouse, since you rarely see it IRL. 

Is it tho? I mean AIR-1 is legit always out, unless it's super early or late. I understand what ur saying and understand it can be annoying as LEO to have to deal with perma 240 cars BUT you can't expect much else when AIR-1 is patrolling the city or sitting on top of Maze Bank waiting for something to happen. Truthfully it is not that easy to lose AIR -1 when there is a total of 5 Heli routes available to use. 

[Ash]

6 hours ago, Perez1025 said:

but what police force actually sanctions these and use them in pursuits?

This one's very much a "make them do realism but not us". You also don't see criminals evading in supercars irl like you do on here, but the meta is just how it is. When most crims can go 240 they have no alternative than to turn to these to even stand a chance.

6 hours ago, Perez1025 said:

Police need to not just pull out guns to entice fear RP rules.

new fear rp rule update means this isn't relevant, if you genuinely dont think a cop would shoot, you can take that gamble and run anyway and see if they'll blast you.

6 hours ago, Perez1025 said:

i feel most cops have a win mentality

very generalised, many criminals also have a win mentality, it's just how it is with it mostly being cops vs robbers server.

Overall i don't like the angle of "i want others to be realistic" when the other side is just as bad at doing it themselves.

not a cop or crim btw.

[Tonywins]

 

 

15 minutes ago, Ash said:

When most crims can go 240 they have no alternative than to turn to these to even stand a chance.

I agree about the 240 max speed. Crims often HAVE to use these speeds to stand a chance. Or use and LC to outperform. Because the penalties are severe. If cops lose, they lose. If crims lose, they have their time wasted. So should the crims have a chance? I think so. Without vehicles that perform well, What chance do crims have to escape at all? Outgunned, outmanned, and more restricted in their behavior is some ways. A crim making demands to a cop is laughable.

 

18 minutes ago, Ash said:

new fear rp rule update means this isn't relevant, if you genuinely dont think a cop would shoot, you can take that gamble and run anyway and see if they'll blast you.

The new fear rp rule is a great change. But cops will still just shoot you down because it is within their power. It doesn't change much except it isn't against the server rules. Even if you are unarmed. Unreasonable force is common and bad RP. I understand it is often within the rules. But I think almost all non-police would like to see the escalation of force be more reasonable. The rules should probably be updated or more specific.

However, realism IS good RP. Out of the many interactions I have had with police, the RP has been awful. Doing the bare minimum if that. The IA system is also terrible. The PD is force first without consequence. And the higher ups are the most quick to use deadly force. Imagine seeing a car rammed to oblivion 1 minute into a chase with no regard for lives or property on either side on TV. You would be baffled. Good RP remains bound within realistic expectations. The whole "crims get fast cars" thing is wild. Sooooooo what? Cops get to have anything and everything else without fear of losing anything. 

[Perez1025]

1 hour ago, Ash said:

This one's very much a "make them do realism but not us". You also don't see criminals evading in supercars irl like you do on here, but the meta is just how it is. When most crims can go 240 they have no alternative than to turn to these to even stand a chance.

new fear rp rule update means this isn't relevant, if you genuinely dont think a cop would shoot, you can take that gamble and run anyway and see if they'll blast you.

very generalised, many criminals also have a win mentality, it's just how it is with it mostly being cops vs robbers server.

Overall i don't like the angle of "i want others to be realistic" when the other side is just as bad at doing it themselves.

not a cop or crim btw.

You missed the point it isn't about winning it's about having enjoyment playing cops have many tools that give them an advantage and they should I was just giving some suggestions i even said I wanted to hear suggestions about what crims could do diff unfortunately this isn't happening. I also wasn't talking about running from a cop with gun pointed at me that entire scenario you misread im talking about like what you do with cobb observe the activity going on but because im a crim in a gang even though I have no weapons and not interfering i get a gun pulled on me told to leave thats just terrible RP.

[Salvador Rivera]

12 hours ago, Jokl said:

- Get rid of all the meta cars for crims. Its crazy and unreal that every crim drives around in Niobe/LaCourouse, since you rarely see it IRL. 

 

That won't happen, each person chooses what they want to ride. The problem is that many criminals don't understand that this is an RP server, they came here to shoot. This matter has been discussed for a long time and there is no point in it. The majority of support is for the LEO side, not the crim, and as long as it remains like that, nothing will change and everything will remain the same. Soon there will only be people on the server who work legal jobs and LEO staff. 

[Demonmit1]

14 hours ago, Perez1025 said:

Get rid of the crazy unreal high speeds like the banshee/niobe for police its completely real for civilians to have these cars as you see it IRL all the times but what police force actually sanctions these and use them in pursuits? Cops have AIR1 that is an advantage for them non cops need one as well. 

let me seize your super cars permanently then. after its used in multiple felonies, we get to keep it if we catch you. you want it realism from law enforcement? lets implement civil asset forfeiture. 

15 hours ago, Perez1025 said:

Police need to not just pull out guns to entice fear RP rules. Example from recent interaction I had LS is represented of a city in California where I'm allowed to stand across the street and watch what cops are doing and say what i want as long as i don't go over or interfere, for me to do this and a cops pull a gun on me and point at me is insane I'm not going to name the cops that do this as there are more that don't than do but they shouldn't be pulling out there gun pointing it forcing me into  fear RP to leave cause they don't like I'm watching and protesting what they are doing. 

Sounds like a clear breach of Force Continuum and should be reported to Internal Affairs in character.

 

 

15 hours ago, Perez1025 said:

Have a set number of unmarked police cars. its unrealistic for half the force to be rolling around in unmarked cars. 

LSSD has 106 players. 18 are allowed to drive around in unmarked vehicles. last i checked 18 isnt half of 106.

 

 

15 hours ago, Perez1025 said:

Pitt maneuvers cops have way to much freedom with this pitting at 180KPH+ shouldn't be happening its insanely unreal and dangerous where we are all supposed to be valuing our lives. As such using high speeds to pit that just wouldn't happen it would be scouts, buffalos, machos..ect not high end cars that rply would cost the city tons to fix. 

evading at 180 KM/h is risking your own life, when that evasion is about 80% initiated by a simple traffic stop where criminals were going to get a ticket, but they chose to evade. If someone is willing to risk felony charges over a speeding ticket, that escelates the situation for law enforcement to where you have to be stopped due to the danger you'd be putting on the rest of the civilian population. your choices have consequences, but criminal players dont understand that.

Using highspeeds to pit again, sounds like a breach of handbook guidelines, and should be reported to internal affairs. in LSSD high speeds are not allowed to pit. but you're making these accusations but not following through with them? thats on you.

 

15 hours ago, Perez1025 said:

With this being said as well i know Crim's are not perfect I'm sure there's stuff we can improve on to make it make sense for both sides and I'm completely open to hearing them and trying them out I'm a firm believer in trying it before i knock it. 

Criminals need to be aware of the FearRP rule and the NonRP swimming rule. since the rule change to the FearRP rule, 90% of criminals now think FearRP is no longer a rule. the rule change is if you have a weapon, you have a choice to react, you cant just ignore a weapon pointed at you when you're unarmed. also, lets stop swimming across the oceans to dump guns and avoid being arrested. lol

[Demonmit1]

8 hours ago, Tonywins said:

I agree about the 240 max speed. Crims often HAVE to use these speeds to stand a chance. Or use and LC to outperform. Because the penalties are severe. If cops lose, they lose. If crims lose, they have their time wasted. So should the crims have a chance? I think so. Without vehicles that perform well, What chance do crims have to escape at all? Outgunned, outmanned, and more restricted in their behavior is some ways. A crim making demands to a cop is laughable.

sounds like a skill issue? I have successfully evaded Air 1 along with national guard forces in a scrapyard Glendale with drift tires and scriptly drunk, while having grenades thrown at me.

I have successfully evaded multiple interceptors in the DMV training car multiple times.

you always have a chance. but its entirely based on skill, not on how fast your car can accelerate and turn. I've smoked highspeeds in non meta cars that max out at 180km/h

"Because the penalties are severe"

180 max prison time, down to 108 minutes depending on your level of VIP, is Severe? the cap for prison time has been lowered and lowered time and time again, and ICly im actually trying to start work on reducing the charge times for all charges across the entire penal code. Criminals have the ability to make an extreme amount of money in a short time. Doing crime is high risk, high reward, but people like you dont want the high risk? whats the point in even playing then?

Edited August 23, 2025 by Demonmit1

[Eliza]

On 3/16/2025 at 7:41 PM, alexalex303 said:

I don't believe that play to win mentality is currently being evaluated in a fair way, and it's resulting in poor roleplay situations that bring little satisfaction to either side. 

Some of my points will refer to law enforcement vs criminals, and I want to make it clear that even though in-character there is an adversarial relationship, that is strictly in-character and out-of-character we are all players in the same community, and should be striving that both sides enjoy any roleplay encounter.

Law enforcement is meant to try and catch the people doing crime and criminals are meant to be doing crime. There's a pretty clear symmetry in their goal, and its very much a symbiotic relationship.

However, the issue I feel is that if a cop tries too hard to arrest someone, they're accused of being a "W cop" or "playing to win". I understand where the feeling is coming from, however, I do feel that the average criminal is playing to win about a hundred times harder than any law enforcement character, on any day of the week.

Let me give you three practical examples.

If you look at events thrown by factions, you will see nothing but lore vehicles. Lowriders, Roosevelts, Gargoyles. Whatever fits the faction role and what makes sense in-character. Great! Amazing. Now what do you see the same gang using when they're going to a shootout? Or going to a lab? It's always the same three vehicles: Kamacho, Niobe and Drag. Why? Because they increase your chance of winning. Why is that never considered a play to win mentality? Why are those not "W gang members"?

Now let's say that those already meta vehicles end up being chased and it's not going so well, cause, law enforcement has a helicopter out and whatnot. Some people may say that's the cost of doing crime, and it's good roleplay for your character to end up in prison sometimes. You can make some connections, roleplay with the guards and maybe even make some money. All good? No. Instead you have another gang member risk their $5 million bike that they drove themselves to insanity to pay off by simply throwing it on a random street and letting the person "vehicle swap" to the even more OP meta vehicle. Putting aside the fact that vehicle swaps are entirely a GTA mechanic and it basically never happens in real-life, it's done with the express purpose of winning the situation. How is that not playing to win? How are vehicle swaps not the pinnacle of play to win mentality?

It's time to make some money and the best labs are down, let's go hit a bank. What is everyone doing? Put away all your guns, and have the bare minimum of people required by the script to even carry guns. Makes absolutely no sense that you'd have a bank robbery with 12 people but only 2 are carrying guns, and most of the time, guns with no ammo. It's purely a minimizing risk strategy that is found exclusively in gaming, a form min-maxing (i.e. minimizing loses and maximizing profit -> playing to win), and furthermore, everyone will have their own off-road bike to go 80* up the slope of a mountain where the helicopter can't follow properly. Now does that sound like a scenario optimized for roleplay interactions?

Where am I going with this exactly? Do I expect every player that owns a Niobe to suddenly stop using it? No.

However, if we are all focusing on roleplaying a character, I don't think we're all doing a good job, and it's very easy to look at 'the other side' and point fingers, but the healthy and appropriate solution is to look inwards because that's the only thing you can change.

My man @alexalex303 said it best on a different topic of the many “nerf pd” threads.

[Tonywins]

4 hours ago, Demonmit1 said:

sounds like a skill issue? I have successfully evaded Air 1 along with national guard forces in a scrapyard Glendale with drift tires and scriptly drunk, while having grenades thrown at me.

I have successfully evaded multiple interceptors in the DMV training car multiple times.

you always have a chance. but its entirely based on skill, not on how fast your car can accelerate and turn. I've smoked highspeeds in non meta cars that max out at 180km/h

Here we go. Some one-off story about "skill issue". These scenarios are old and dusty. Of course you CAN evade in whatever. But when half the PD is bored and you get 5-8 cars and air 1 on every chase, you lose almost every time without a decent car. This isn't a measuring contest. And I'm speaking about anyone using what is available, not my personal experiences. So you are saying crims should get no advantages at all? L take in my opinion.

 

 

4 hours ago, Demonmit1 said:

"Because the penalties are severe"

180 max prison time, down to 108 minutes depending on your level of VIP, is Severe? the cap for prison time has been lowered and lowered time and time again, and ICly im actually trying to start work on reducing the charge times for all charges across the entire penal code. Criminals have the ability to make an extreme amount of money in a short time. Doing crime is high risk, high reward, but people like you dont want the high risk? whats the point in even playing then?

You think that's the only penalty? How about suspensions, fines, and losing weapons/drugs/money/etc. The time it takes to return to normalcy is a problem. For example: you get out of DOC and you spend an hour tracking down your things because the cops can't call around to figure out why they aren't there. You check every PD driving suspended or wasting someone elses time to drive you around to look. Sometimes the stuff just disappears. I'm not saying there shouldn't be risk. For sure crims have the most to lose and the most to gain. Makes sense. But extreme money? Not for your average crim. But there is a massive time waste for crims when dealing with cops. All good if the RP was fun and good. Sometimes it is. But almost every experience I have had is some w mentality, non social, ineffective cop. "Report it to IA" oh brother. More hours wasted. I have maybe known my charges going into DOC 2 times ever haha. There are days when the RP is bad and I only lose money. There is a mentality among cops that they can be edgy and do whatever and it's okay. There is no true accountability. Wasting some ones time is the WORST experience players can have and it kills the city tbh. 

[Tonywins]

7 minutes ago, Eliza said:

My man @alexalex303 said it best on a different topic of the many “nerf pd” threads.

He is correct. But what does crim interaction with other crims have to do with crim interactions with PD? I agree with him. If the goal is to get rid of W mentality, it is up to the admins to get rid of W strategies or punish those that act that way. For the crims that play fair, they lose because everything is geared towards W mentality cops treating every situation like its a W mentality crim. The PD power creep is at an all time high and the RP is poor. Fix it.

[Demonmit1]

56 minutes ago, Tonywins said:

So you are saying crims should get no advantages at all? L take in my opinion.

Crims can go buy and use whatever car they want, drive it how they want, and go wherever they want.  I have 1600 hours played on my Law enforcement character and im still not allowed to drive a "highspeed" like the jugular, vigero, or banshee. the use of a highspeed has to be approved, and deployed from one of a few garages, giving crims time to evade before they show up, and only used on high speed cars used by crims to evade.

Crims are welcome to use whatever gun they want that they can afford. only very recently have i been allowed access to a rifle. before that, it was a pump shotgun and pistols. for 1000+ hours.

You can shoot anyone you want as long as you're within the rules of the server. law enforcement have a strict force continuum that has to be followed or you get kicked from the faction. 

Criminals, if they're not braindead, have the very powerful advantage to chose where to engage law enforcement. Law enforcement react to criminals.

if your arguemnt is criminals have no advantages, you're blind to what incredible options criminals have if they're willing to put the time and effort into planning and executing plans against law enforcement. I was high command of shadows, and we regularly went directly against law enforcement and the government, and won. again, it comes down to a skill issue on most players parts. be smart, and you'll win more often than not. but thats the mentality of criminal players these days. rather than create an interesting story, they want to play GTA online with extra steps. 
 

56 minutes ago, Tonywins said:

You think that's the only penalty? How about suspensions, fines, and losing weapons/drugs/money/etc.

Money is easy come easy go for criminals. obviously y'all have the capabilities to earn obsene amounts of money, affording the best meta cars, LC is 900k, jugular is 1.4 million, etc etc. your average law enforcement makes $6k an hour, before tax, thats like 250 hours of being on duty to afford a single "high speed" car. criminals can make 10x that per hour. again, high risk, high reward. suspensions were just recently cut in half. gun prices have plummeted by half, drugs have been massively updated, and criminals can make 10's of thousands of dollars in minutes if you know what you're doing. 

The tools to succeed as a criminal exist, but you, and other players dont use them correctly. once you figure it out, you'll do better.
 

Edited August 23, 2025 by Demonmit1

[Demonmit1]

 

1 hour ago, Tonywins said:

So you are saying crims should get no advantages at all? L take in my opinion.

Lets look more into this "Skill Issue" problem. The current mentality that i see from criminals is its an every man for themselves in most interactions with law enforcement vs criminals. Support, teamwork, and communication is an incredibly powerful force multiplier that organized factions like LSSD and LSPD heavily practice and enforce to be successful in finding, catching, and prosecuting criminal players. Most interactions ive had with criminals is once you're caught in the act of the crime, the criminal players scatter and leave eachother to their own devices to evade or get caught. We as law enforcement take advantage of that, and will focus our force on one or a small number that we know we can catch, rather than sending every officer in different directions. This is a strategy that works quite well, where there is always one or a few big losers while everyone else gets away. from a criminal perspective, this can work, and if its an organized gang, you should be getting a cut and being paid for ending up as the fall guy. but from my understanding this isnt how it works, its an every man for themselves situation. again, this goes back into the "Skill issue" argument i made. teamwork makes the dream work, and government factions practice it and execute it typically well enough that its more sucessful than not. If you take a step back and look at the overall strategy of doing a crime, rather than hoping you can press W longer than the cop chasing you, it is typically really effective. look at the gang SVR and their tactics to support fellow gang members if they get into a pursuit. They're one of the hardest people to catch, not only because they have good individual skills with driving, but they communicate and work as a team to interfere with the pursuit and support the main person being chased.

The issue isnt that cops need more nerfs, its that criminal RP has so much more potential that most are not taking advantage of.

[Earl Mud]

+1. I had a comment but retracted it. Would rather hear from everyone else on this.

Edited August 23, 2025 by Earl Mud

[Sammy Kane]

+1, not going to reply to some of these other replies like i wanted to because LEO and crim can never agree.

 

but if you do believe using  a PIT manoeuvre INSIDE city limits above 180kph then you sir are lost. 

[EL Doggo]

my issue i have is whats the point of cops getting these badass meta cars to get involved in some amazing long high speed chases if they instantly have AIR1 out.... 24/7....365...... i get pulled for going 102 in the city and i can hear and see it circling the traffic stop, imo its one or the other i think AIR1 is pointless as what can crims do to combat a literal heli?

[Demonmit1]

  

On 8/22/2025 at 7:19 PM, Perez1025 said:

I'm sure people can add more these just some quick ones I see a lot we need each other to RP but right now i feel most cops have a win mentality and they just wanna win. I personally don't care about going to DOC no biggie but when I'm caught in a way that just clear they don't wanna lose its annoying. With this being said as well i know Crim's are not perfect I'm sure there's stuff we can improve on to make it make sense for both sides and I'm completely open to hearing them and trying them out I'm a firm believer in trying it before i knock it. 

Look. the conversation between meta cars this and police cars that isnt going to go anywhere or do anyone favors. I've made a lot of suggestions over my time here, and I have a wide range of experience, being high command in an official criminal faction, command in a civilian faction, and now heavily involved as GND in a LEO faction. We're talking 5000+ hours of in game time doing everything this server has to offer, I'm extremely familiar with the systems and how the server works.

Sammy Kane's response is a PERFECT example of the issue with the cop vs criminal RP within the server. IC and OOC rules and regulations internal to Law enforcement gameplay have been mostly OOCly but a few times ICly leaked to the general public, and is used against law enforcement players, exploited as a game mechanic by criminals to win, rather than being respected as a part of being involved in roleplay.

Examples?

PIT Maneuvers:

Law enforcement have strict rules on when, where, and why we can execute a PIT Maneuver. We are not allowed to PIT if you're in the incorrect lane of travel, or within most populated areas within the city. This information has over time become widely known by criminal players through whatever means they've learned it. These rules are set by Faction Leadership to maintain a high standard of roleplay, but lets be real here, there are no NPCs. no one's walking down random sidewalks, no one is driving through little community streets. Law enforcement OOCly nerf their response and what they're allowed to do for the sake of realism and fair RP, and criminals, having learned these rules, exploit it to win, then bitch and moan about W mentality if a cop breaks these set up rules.

Time and time again, the moment a pursuit starts, most criminals switch to incorrect to have "immunity" to getting PIT. most criminals drive recklessly through sidewalks and down city streets, knowing law enforcement are held to a higher standard by their faction leadership, to abuse these roleplay standards expected of law enforcement, but the criminal doesn't hold themselves to the same standard, then come bitch and whine on the forums about Law enforcement realism.

Detective Bureau / Investigations Bureau:

One of the most important tools for Law enforcement factions to create really in depth, long term RP between LEO and Crims is case files, gang files, and conducting investigations. Tracing phones is a huge part of that. Now, magically, every criminal already knows that any time you're doing any criminal activity, you need to turn your phone off, told by their friends, or their friends friend, or somehow new players already know this information. This info over time has been shared OOCly and heavily neutered entire branches of law enforcement roleplay, forcing most criminal vs law enforcement interactions to be, "commit crime, get chased, win or lose"

I'm currently one of the few GND members in LSSD, I can tell you there are many more internal OOC/IC rules, tactics, and limitations we're expected to follow that I wont talk about here specifically for the reason and experience I know players will metagame the information and use it against us to win. pure win mentality. This issue has become bad enough that LFM stepped in recently and made new OOC faction rules for law enforcement, that your character, if you join SIB of DB, is not allowed to leave the faction and start being involved in criminal activity for a minimum of three months, because people have abused it.

This makes community discussions like this miserable and impossible, because criminal focused players demand transparency and realism from law enforcement factions, but when its given, immediately use that information against law enforcement in character, weaponized against us to guarantee yourself a win. if that's not a "W Mentality" i don't know what is. Law enforcement factions are extremely hesitant to be open and transparent OOCly, because when they have been, the information has been metagame and used against them, why would they want to give you a guide on how to beat them?

A lot of this boils down to blatant metagaming by criminal players. I've personally dealt with criminals, who their character is a hardened criminal, with no law enforcement background, sit there and argue with me about specific internal policy, application of charges, etc. How would you know this? because you at one point were law enforcement, and your meta gaming the information? or your friend told you who has a LEO alt? etc etc?


So why do people feel that LSPD/LSSD isnt transparent, cant be trusted, has a W mentality? This is why. Criminal role-players have broken that trust, repeatedly, to benefit themselves to win at all costs, rather than being involved in RP and creating a story.

Edited August 23, 2025 by Demonmit1

[Tonywins]

3 hours ago, Demonmit1 said:

Crims can go buy and use whatever car they want, drive it how they want, and go wherever they want.  I have 1600 hours played on my Law enforcement character and im still not allowed to drive a "highspeed" like the jugular, vigero, or banshee. the use of a highspeed has to be approved, and deployed from one of a few garages, giving crims time to evade before they show up, and only used on high speed cars used by crims to evade.

Crims are welcome to use whatever gun they want that they can afford. only very recently have i been allowed access to a rifle. before that, it was a pump shotgun and pistols. for 1000+ hours.

You can shoot anyone you want as long as you're within the rules of the server. law enforcement have a strict force continuum that has to be followed or you get kicked from the faction. 

Criminals, if they're not braindead, have the very powerful advantage to chose where to engage law enforcement. Law enforcement react to criminals.

if your arguemnt is criminals have no advantages, you're blind to what incredible options criminals have if they're willing to put the time and effort into planning and executing plans against law enforcement. I was high command of shadows, and we regularly went directly against law enforcement and the government, and won. again, it comes down to a skill issue on most players parts. be smart, and you'll win more often than not. but thats the mentality of criminal players these days. rather than create an interesting story, they want to play GTA online with extra steps. 
 

Money is easy come easy go for criminals. obviously y'all have the capabilities to earn obsene amounts of money, affording the best meta cars, LC is 900k, jugular is 1.4 million, etc etc. your average law enforcement makes $6k an hour, before tax, thats like 250 hours of being on duty to afford a single "high speed" car. criminals can make 10x that per hour. again, high risk, high reward. suspensions were just recently cut in half. gun prices have plummeted by half, drugs have been massively updated, and criminals can make 10's of thousands of dollars in minutes if you know what you're doing. 

The tools to succeed as a criminal exist, but you, and other players dont use them correctly. once you figure it out, you'll do better.
 

Criminals can succeed. You're exactly part of the issue it appears. 6k an hour is pretty good when you don't have to buy guns, ammo, cars etc to make money. Also, you think these expensive cars aren't just bought off the cash shop? You have the same access to that. I agree money can be made faster on crims but we also lose it in a blink. Cops don't have that risk. We don't care about what weapons and cars YOU as an individual have access to. We have an issue with what the PD as a whole have access to and the force escalation. The force escalation is the real issue. I have no issue with the PD having tools to deal with high threat crims. I have issues with how they are implemented and utilized hastily, freely, and unchecked. You for some reason make this about me but I have  no issue being caught. Sometimes I welcome it to create RP. However, most cops aren't interested in the RP but only the win; it is a bad experience 9 out of 10 times. Sometimes I really don't want to be caught, and so I'm not. The penalties are harsh and the RP is worse. 

[Demonmit1]

18 minutes ago, Tonywins said:

Criminals can succeed. You're exactly part of the issue it appears. 6k an hour is pretty good when you don't have to buy guns, ammo, cars etc to make money. Also, you think these expensive cars aren't just bought off the cash shop? You have the same access to that. I agree money can be made faster on crims but we also lose it in a blink. Cops don't have that risk. We don't care about what weapons and cars YOU as an individual have access to. We have an issue with what the PD as a whole have access to and the force escalation. The force escalation is the real issue. I have no issue with the PD having tools to deal with high threat crims. I have issues with how they are implemented and utilized hastily, freely, and unchecked. You for some reason make this about me but I have  no issue being caught. Sometimes I welcome it to create RP. However, most cops aren't interested in the RP but only the win; it is a bad experience 9 out of 10 times. Sometimes I really don't want to be caught, and so I'm not. The penalties are harsh and the RP is worse. 

Let's start with this server's design. you're not supposed to 'win' against law enforcement. The goal isn't to kill every cop and have free reign over the city. That would be GTA Online, not a roleplay server. The system is designed to provide risk, and law enforcement is the embodiment of that risk.

You mentioned force escalation as the "real issue." You're right, it is. But it's a reactive escalation. We don't roll out a high speed for a stolen taxi. If you bring a high-performance car to a crime, you will be met with a high-performance car. If you bring heavy weapons, you'll be met with heavy weapons. We react to the threat you present.  Still a skill issue at the end of the day.

You're correct that we don't pay for our own gear. But that comes with a massive trade-off that criminals don't have. we don't own it, we don't get to pick and choose how to use it, and we have to follow strict guidelines on when, where, and how it's deployed. Your argument about the cash shop is irrelevant. I can't just go hop in my personal Niobe and start a patrol. Meanwhile, you're welcome to use any car you own to commit a crime, or better yet, just go steal one. You have that freedom, we have procedure. If we break those procedures, we face real consequences within our faction.

Which brings me to my final and most important point.
You claim these tools are used "hastily, freely, and unchecked." So I have to ask, and I'm being serious... If you believe these rules are being broken, what have you done about it?
When was the last time you filed an IA report against an officer for improper force escalation?
Did you file an IA report when that cop pointed a gun at you for standing across the street?
What was the outcome of those reports?

It's easy to complain on the forums that the RP is bad and the system is broken. But the system of accountability you claim is unchecked only works if players actually use it. If the answer is "I haven't," then the problem isn't that the system is broken, it's that you're choosing to complain here instead of seeking accountability there.