SAGOV Corruption & Overreach

[AtlasOLimbo]

How have the founders allowed the roleplay with SAGOV to reach the blatant overreach and corruption that it exists at currently? I don't see how this is fun for anyone involved BESIDES SAGOV.

Weazel, a faction that has literally kept the civilian roleplay alive with dedicated individuals quite literally got punished for doing their job by having every vehicle in their F4 removed except one.

And if the counter argument for this is "deal with it IC", how? There's no method of impeachment for the governor(s), we have no elected officials apart from the LRC, that still cannot touch the board of governors if the governors do not want them to. The Judicial Branch got threatened merely for exercising their rights. Individuals are given weird custom ranks and high command roles based purely on nepotism.

Any other faction doing what GOV is doing at the moment would be crushed into a fine powder by GOV. I'm either asking for an avenue be provided to counteract GOV, or that GOV simply reel it in/be brought back to the administrative, hands off approach it was a year ago.

[Clank]

What helps me cope is I tell myself we're NOT playing a game based on a democracy, Consider the government more like a dictatorship and it will make more sense RPly. I don't necessarily feel like its "corruption" per say, I think people just forget that we're not in a democratic state ya feel me? So I think calling it corruption is a reach.

Its like if a news agency in North Korea would start talking down on Kim Jong Un, they would probably be in a worst position than losing a couple of cars.

 

In this particular situation, Weazel News is funded BY the government right? So biting the hand that feeds you won't take you far. Just like IRL a police departments funding is at the mercy of the board of Police Commissioners. If that board thinks they need less funding, bye bye expensive cruisers, job cuts etc.

 

Lewis is my homie though so there is definitely some cognitive bias from my end of the stick.

Edited June 11, 2024 by Clank
added a lil line

[AtlasOLimbo]

Just now, Clank said:

What helps me cope is I tell myself we're playing a game based on a democracy, Consider the government more like a dictatorship and it will make more sense RPly. I don't necessarily feel like its "corruption" per say, I think people just forget that we're not in a democratic state ya feel me? So I think calling it corruption is a reach.

Its like if a news agency in North Korea would start talking down on Kim Jong Un, they would probably be in a worst position than losing a couple of cars.

 

Lewis is my homie though so there is definitely some cognitive bias.

Even dictatorships suffer heavy resistance, internal sabotage (which has happened to some degree), protests, etc. But this roleplay actively gets crushed/disallowed both on an IC and OOC level. The server running as a dictatorship quite literally is not fun for anyone except the dictator(s) for obvious reasons.

Any first world, especially American-affiliate acting to such a degree of blatant disregard for everything, using military in domestic events, etc, would have every federal and global authority stepping in and possible external armed intervention and or tariffs/embargos up the ass. 

[Clank]

1 minute ago, AtlasOLimbo said:

Even dictatorships suffer heavy resistance, internal sabotage (which has happened to some degree), protests, etc. But this roleplay actively gets crushed/disallowed both on an IC and OOC level. The server running as a dictatorship quite literally is not fun for anyone except the dictator(s) for obvious reasons.

Any first world, especially American-affiliate acting to such a degree of blatant disregard for everything, using military in domestic events, etc, would have every federal and global authority stepping in and possible external armed intervention and or tariffs/embargos up the ass. 

I disagree with resistance roleplay being disallowed OOCly. It should be crushed ICly and solely ICly.

 

I also think people forget that this whole government system was not always there. People have it REALLY good right now if you look at how things were back in the day it was a literal military state ran by the Police Commission.

[CalvinKlein]

1 minute ago, Clank said:

What helps me cope is I tell myself we're NOT playing a game based on a democracy, Consider the government more like a dictatorship and it will make more sense RPly. I don't necessarily feel like its "corruption" per say, I think people just forget that we're not in a democratic state ya feel me? So I think calling it corruption is a reach.

Its like if a news agency in North Korea would start talking down on Kim Jong Un, they would probably be in a worst position than losing a couple of cars.

 

Lewis is my homie though so there is definitely some cognitive bias from my end of the stick.

I see, and you are correct, I think the issue pointed out somewhat comes from the fact that the "dictatorship" has been established somewhat through/under OOC merits rather than it happening purely IC through progressive roleplay storyline, with the OOC influence being the final line dictating the IC situation if that makes sense.

 

It's not like you had some elected officials, lets say become "corrupt" IC, and do X Y Z to terminate opposition and RPly subdue the citizens, if there was to be some form of IC revolution/counter for this, it would genuinely be ICLy impossible for OOC reasons.

 

 

[AtlasOLimbo]

Just now, Clank said:

I disagree with resistance roleplay being disallowed OOCly. It should be crushed ICly and solely ICly.

 

I also think people forget that this whole government system was not always there. People have it REALLY good right now if you look at how things were back in the day it was a literal military state ran by the Police Commission.

I played around COVID times, and that is exactly how I liked it. Government was extremely hands off, was used for licensing, occasionally modifying things like parking and penal code. Lewis would have his little bit of fun every so often and it was good.

As was just mentioned, people are extremely intimidated both OOC and IC to do ANYTHING in retaliation due to the administrative position(s) of these officials, and seem bound to get removed from their years of work for a position if they even breathe in the government's direction. @Pazz @Chunder 

[CalvinKlein]

1 minute ago, Clank said:

I disagree with resistance roleplay being disallowed OOCly. It should be crushed ICly and solely ICly.

 

I also think people forget that this whole government system was not always there. People have it REALLY good right now if you look at how things were back in the day it was a literal military state ran by the Police Commission.

there also is the depiction that "We are roleplaying in the US" said often in the past years, when it came to many of the law, and structuring template etc, 

judicial as a concept was good, but seemed to be very limited and eventually became a subsidiary of GOV rather than a separate entity, (handpicked positions via nepotizm,.  etc and the previous IC "Drama" leading to many people leaving / being removed) 

Constitution was added that doesnt really constitute for much.

[Clank]

1 minute ago, CalvinKlein said:

there also is the depiction that "We are roleplaying in the US" said often in the past years, when it came to many of the law, and structuring template etc, 

judicial as a concept was good, but seemed to be very limited and eventually became a subsidiary of GOV rather than a separate entity, (handpicked positions via nepotizm,.  etc and the previous IC "Drama" leading to many people leaving / being removed) 

Constitution was added that doesnt really constitute for much.

I was on the development team for the government system. I DO agree with some of your points, the Judicial System as it stands is not the vision I had for the server. I always wanted US caselaw to be the basis and founding framework for our judiciary system. Same with the constitution, it should have been a modified version of the United States'.

 

On the other hand though, I disagree about the nepotism comments as I DO feel like people in positions within the judicial branch currently have earned their place whether I disagree with how everything turned out or not.

[Clank]

6 minutes ago, AtlasOLimbo said:

As was just mentioned, people are extremely intimidated both OOC and IC to do ANYTHING in retaliation due to the administrative position(s) of these officials, and seem bound to get removed from their years of work for a position if they even breathe in the government's direction. @Pazz @Chunder 

 

I don't think this would happen to be honest, I always tell Pazz that if anyone tried to arrest them ICly they would have to fight off the LSPD kill squad first. The government might have total OOC power but ICly they have to respect the rules for rulers. 

I highly suggest watching this video, Its a good watch and honestly really informative unironically.

 

[CalvinKlein]

9 minutes ago, Clank said:

I was on the development team for the government system. I DO agree with some of your points, the Judicial System as it stands is not the vision I had for the server. I always wanted US caselaw to be the basis and founding framework for our judiciary system. Same with the constitution, it should have been a modified version of the United States'.

 

On the other hand though, I disagree about the nepotism comments as I DO feel like people in positions within the judicial branch currently have earned their place whether I disagree with how everything turned out or not.

Well rather than the term" nepotism" I would say it happened through networking for a more correct depiction, you and I both come from NGRP on SA:MP,. and despite it being on a game that is 18YO now, with no VOIP and just Text RP, there was literally a better judicial system on there than ECRP's Judicial system at it's peak.. let alone the fact that an IC dispute took place with the governments splitting, and the establishment of Tierra Robada (with TRAF as its army and its own gov, the War RP that happened between them multiple times, and other lore that took place) those are all things that are more possible, and facilitated with the engine we have (Being GTA V, with Eclipse's script on RAGE) than samp ever was, which shows the problem is rather the system. 

 

On SAMP, You would get arrested, and if you dispute your charges, get taken directly to court instead of straight prison, where you had to RP through court etc, to determine whether you are guilty and go to jail or if you were innocent, (except in rare cases with no DOJ online), nowadays you get "go file a court appeal, or there is no DOJ online, and even if there was it is "go post an appeal" , which takes beyond forever,

I have 2 active cases, first one being from Sat Aug 26, 2023  '

That is nearly 10 months of "forum posting" on a thread to come to a "court decision" on a video game...

Edited June 11, 2024 by CalvinKlein

[CalvinKlein]

3 minutes ago, Clank said:

 

I don't think this would happen to be honest, I always tell Pazz that if anyone tried to arrest them ICly they would have to fight off the LSPD kill squad first. The government might have total OOC power but ICly they have to respect the rules for rulers. 

I highly suggest watching this video, Its a good watch and honestly really informative unironically.

 

Bro I feel like this is more for monarchy systems or so, however realistically a "governor" for a "state" or a police chief / commissioner would be a "servant of the public" rather than a ruler ya get me

[AtlasOLimbo]

1 minute ago, CalvinKlein said:

Well rather than the term" nepotism" I would say it happened through networking for a more correct depiction, you and I both come from NGRP on SA:MP,. and despite it being on a game that is 18YO now, with no VOIP and just Text RP, there was literally a better judicial system on there than ECRP's Judicial system at it's peak.. let alone the fact that an IC dispute took place with the governments splitting, and the establishment of Tierra Robada (with TRAF as its army and its own gov, the War RP that happened between them multiple times, and other lore that took place) those are all things that are more possible, and facilitated with the engine we have (Being GTA V, with Eclipse's script on RAGE) than samp ever was, which shows the problem is rather the system. 

This. This. This. The response is always to everything, "don't rely on script". But, in every avenue of roleplay I've pursued it's felt like I've got kneecapped at every corner. Y'all remember Underground? (Who got made fun of for not wanting to clap 24/7 and just have fun, but I digress.)

[Clank]

1 minute ago, CalvinKlein said:

Well rather than the term" nepotism" I would say it happened through networking for a more correct depiction, you and I both come from NGRP on SA:MP,. and despite it being on a game that is 18YO now, with no VOIP and just Text RP, there was literally a better judicial system on there than ECRP's Judicial system at it's peak.. let alone the fact that an IC dispute took place with the governments splitting, and the establishment of Tierra Robada (with TRAF as its army and its own gov, the War RP that happened between them multiple times, and other lore that took place) those are all things that are more possible, and facilitated with the engine we have (Being GTA V, with Eclipse's script on RAGE) than samp ever was, which shows the problem is rather the system. 

I think that a "Tierra Robada" equivalent situation on ECRP would be a really cool experience. I did enjoy the martial law roleplay that happened during war time and having to militarize the police forces in order to fight off the other country it was a fun time and I still preach about it today.

 

I also agree that the NGRP judicial system was amazing, but that was only because the Chief Justice was an actual expert in law, being himself a veteran attorney. I do miss Moey and I tried bringing his vision over when designing the current judicial system here but sadly like I mentioned, I was the minority in deciding to establish the judicial system based off US law and instead it was decided on what we have now.

[AtlasOLimbo]

8 minutes ago, Clank said:

 

I don't think this would happen to be honest, I always tell Pazz that if anyone tried to arrest them ICly they would have to fight off the LSPD kill squad first. The government might have total OOC power but ICly they have to respect the rules for rulers. 

I highly suggest watching this video, Its a good watch and honestly really informative unironically.

 

Currently watching this. There is no way to replace Lewis & co. as mentioned at 1:43 due to the very nature of how the governor position is setup, as mentioned by Calvin.

[CalvinKlein]

6 minutes ago, Clank said:

I think that a "Tierra Robada" equivalent situation on ECRP would be a really cool experience. I did enjoy the martial law roleplay that happened during war time and having to militarize the police forces in order to fight off the other country it was a fun time and I still preach about it today.

 

I also agree that the NGRP judicial system was amazing, but that was only because the Chief Justice was an actual expert in law, being himself a veteran attorney. I do miss Moey and I tried bringing his vision over when designing the current judicial system here but sadly like I mentioned, I was the minority in deciding to establish the judicial system based off US law and instead it was decided on what we have now.

Clank I dont think it is "what we have now" that is the issue, but rather the implementation and execution for it, Moey was amazing but I am pretty sure someone can come close to doing a job similar to his, with adaptive alterations to fit the server's nature, however you look at the website and all the threads / posts and you think WOW this is an amazing system when in reality it is more about what it looks like than what it is, and more about what words are there, and how many of this is written, all good on theory but almost nonexistent in practice..

 

From an IC standpoint you basically get sent to jail (even if you can be proven innocent in court) and you file an appeal , wait 10 months without a conclusion after you server your sentence which is a total imbalance of power here, and honestly it makes Judicial completely useless, ( might as well not exist at that point since it is just some people doing forum posts and the in-game RP experience is not enhanced or engaging in any way)  I don't think anyone by then cares about their 10 months ago charges they did time for lmao

Edited June 11, 2024 by CalvinKlein

[Clank]

1 minute ago, AtlasOLimbo said:

Currently watching this. There is no way to replace Lewis & co. as mentioned at 1:43 due to the very nature of how the governor position is setup, as mentioned by Calvin.

I think eventually once there is a stable way to keep checks and balances, the reign of Lewis will come to an end. 

Lewis on NGRP was not always the head of state, he lost elections sometimes and won sometimes. He is not the type to keep power just because he can. I just think that currently maybe its best to have the one person in control of everything to be one of the head admins.

 

Perhaps when we move from the dictatorship over to a more democratic entity, and the governor positions authority is shifted into different branches then elections can be held and the torch can be passed down.

 

But like I said earlier, Lewis is my homie and I do have bias so I could be wrong.

[Clank]

1 minute ago, CalvinKlein said:

From an IC standpoint you basically get sent to jail (even if you can be proven innocent in court) and you file an appeal , wait 10 months without a conclusion after you server your sentence which is a total imbalance of power here, and honestly it makes Judicial completely useless, I don't think anyone by then cares about their 10 months ago charges they did time for lmao

I am one of the most adamant pushers and supporters for bench trials BEFORE people are sentenced to DOC, But I also feel like this will require a lot more work. On NGRP, if a cop said something in court it was taken as proof. I feel like here, appeals and the burden of proof is a lot different which would be improved by things like a true forensic script, blood, DNA etc. 

I think trials are the epitome of "criminal vs law enforcement" roleplay and I would love to see bench trials.

 

[AtlasOLimbo]

2 minutes ago, Clank said:

I think eventually once there is a stable way to keep checks and balances, the reign of Lewis will come to an end. 

Lewis on NGRP was not always the head of state, he lost elections sometimes and won sometimes. He is not the type to keep power just because he can. I just think that currently maybe its best to have the one person in control of everything to be one of the head admins.

 

Perhaps when we move from the dictatorship over to a more democratic entity, and the governor positions authority is shifted into different branches then elections can be held and the torch can be passed down.

 

But like I said earlier, Lewis is my homie and I do have bias so I could be wrong.

Lewis is being reckless and irresponsible, both OOC and IC in my opinion and I believe the opinion of many others. If he does not permit a democracy to be formed OOC/IC, how will it? If he is your friend like you talk about, I hope you can convince him to some degree to give the server some breathing room rather than treating it like a sandbox for him to play in. 

[Bala]

While this might not be something that you or various other individuals in the community are particularly happy with, what is undeniable is that it has created roleplay from it happening. Just for me personally, I've been a witness to the Weazel vehicles being seized, I've witnessed the argument between Grace and Lewis at Weazel, I've got into arguments with Cyrus and Hermann on LifeInvader plus, I've been the subject of an internal affairs report AND there has been an inquiry to the LSPD about this.

That has, just from the PD side of things created roleplay that @Clank, myself, Joe Riggy, Alex Schill and Mike Luigi have all taken part in to some degree and that doesn't happen if Lewis doesn't take those vehicles. Then you look at people from Weazel like Hermann and Grace getting involved. You've got Cyrus Raven on his soap box. You've got Elena Flores defending the LSPD and issuing statements.

Additionally, you have Weazel employees making accusations against Lewis, you have the medical roleplay involving Andy Tyrie which I was involved in, that involved the Chief of MD, the Assistant Chief of MD, The Warden, whatever Jimimthy is, Lewis, Emily Whitehorse, Hope Kant, Julia Whitehorse, Phillipe Sanchez, Scott Dunbar and myself.

It's my long winded way of saying that, just because you do not personally agree with a certain type of roleplay, does not mean that it is necessarily bad for the server. I've had to learn that the hard way because I've had a fair but to say about the whole Judicial Branch / Law Review Committee and I still think that whole thing is massively convoluted and detrimental to the server. I'll fucking die of old age on that hill and I'll die alone but as a player base we're not appreciative of that level of roleplay and don't have a high enough quality of roleplayer to consistently make it make sense. 

Two things.

1.  I'm sorry but the only people that should be trusted to be the ultimate in-character authority in the server, are individuals that the founders have decided to be head administrators. Because they are best placed to consider all the angles and ultimately, they are in those positions because they are trusted the most by the server owners OOC to run the community. If you can run a community, you can run an IC government.
   
   SAGOV is basically like Lewis' party faction. Dude just wants to attend parties, have meetings and live his best life. 
   
   Lewis and when Osborn and Dani are around, are probably the fairest and most reasonable people to be doing this sort of thing.
   If BallinByNature was still in this community as what Lewis is right now, would any one dare to make a post like this? No man, heads would roll.
   
   Leave Lewis alone man, he's a little zesty at times, he gets a little drunk but he's fair people.
    
2. Weazel being a government funded faction, then turning around and every now and then slandering key personnel in government factions is low-key, high-key retarded. It would be like someone working in the media at XBOX, putting out statements that Phil Spencer, the CEO is corrupt. You'd get fired so fast for doing that shit, not get your keyboard taken away. You don't see Saudi news stations talking shit about the Sheikh do you?
   
   Can't complain about GOV taking your vehicles when they are literally paying for them. They don't own their building, they don't own their vehicles, hell even the uniforms are a rental and you're just going to slander THE boss and not expect anything to happen lmao? 
   
   I see three potential ways Weazel can progress, at this point. Because the server does not need a second news faction, any more than it needed a third mechanic faction or a law review committee.
   
   ONE. The current leadership agrees to an OOC moderation of it's content, where the output either makes sense for a government-funded news outlet or they are willing to remove people that post inflammatory content which would have in-character consequences for the company.
   
   TWO. Weazel News becomes a privately run news company in-character but is still funded OOCly by GOV, as they are now. Perhaps @Bakmeel 's group of multi-nationalist criminal book readers can be behind the purchase. Lewis gets himself a new helicopter for Shadows to use as target practice, Hermann can do his best Nigel Farage impersonation except instead of against immigrants, it's against law enforcement and this shit sort of makes a bit more sense. 
   
   THREE. We open up new applications for a Weazel News CEO, someone like @Ash who is going to take it in a different direction in-character. I like what he's been going with the Cobb Blog. Weazel isn't full of shit roleplayers and Asbo wasn't a shit leader either, but I don't think the current direction is sustainable.

Oh and @Paulius - my eastern european homie, please just put their adverts above the minimap, like we do for the lottery. That way, we keep the chatbox free but they can still get their adverts out there. 

Been a while since I've done one of these, felt pretty good.

Edited June 11, 2024 by Bala

[CalvinKlein]

1 minute ago, Clank said:

I think eventually once there is a stable way to keep checks and balances, the reign of Lewis will come to an end. 

Lewis on NGRP was not always the head of state, he lost elections sometimes and won sometimes. He is not the type to keep power just because he can. I just think that currently maybe its best to have the one person in control of everything to be one of the head admins.

 

Perhaps when we move from the dictatorship over to a more democratic entity, and the governor positions authority is shifted into different branches then elections can be held and the torch can be passed down.

 

But like I said earlier, Lewis is my homie and I do have bias so I could be wrong.

I dont think the problem has to do with Lewis but rather GOV in its structure as an entity, with how it operates and functions as a faction and its contribution to the roleplay experience in-game (not on forums etc / paperwork ) and the same for judicial..

There still is Faction Management for OOC interventions etc and running things smoothly (the same way it is for gangs, we do have Legal faction management)

Election campaigns would bring so much RP, the competition , politics, whether it was corrupt RP, or RP with integrity, it is RP at the end of the day.

Those things bring life to the Civilian RP that is always emphasized as "we want to push more civilian RP" .

 

For example, one can criticize PD or SD as a faction (on a micro level) but in the end, those factions have direct RP impact, and create RP , and contribute to your daily in-game experience when playing the game, so regardless of any imperfections or points you can criticize , they do create a more interactive gameplay , and have heavy presence in-game if that makes sense

 

 

[HobGoblin]

I understand people might not like how GOV works but I don't see anyone else other than head admins being able to run GOV. They need access to admin things to be able to run GOV without that a lot would be missing.

[CalvinKlein]

5 minutes ago, Clank said:

I am one of the most adamant pushers and supporters for bench trials BEFORE people are sentenced to DOC, But I also feel like this will require a lot more work. On NGRP, if a cop said something in court it was taken as proof. I feel like here, appeals and the burden of proof is a lot different which would be improved by things like a true forensic script, blood, DNA etc. 

I think trials are the epitome of "criminal vs law enforcement" roleplay and I would love to see bench trials.

 

it can be very doable and somewhat minimal , and I have seen servers on GTA V implement it where you just need to clip your evidence from the arrest, i dont think it is hard to have POV saved with your arrest / situation the same way it is for OOC situations, except for OOC it'll involve OOC typing / responding to admin inquiries etc which is hectic and stressful (if u fucked up lmao) while ICly this will create a nice roleplay scenario that can be concluded in less time it takes to clean up a scene sometimes

[AtlasOLimbo]

2 minutes ago, Bala said:

While this might not be something that you or various other individuals in the community are particularly happy with, what is undeniable is that it has created roleplay from it happening. Just for me personally, I've been a witness to the Weazel vehicles being seized, I've witnessed the argument between Grace and Lewis at Weazel, I've got into arguments with Cyrus and Hermann on LifeInvader plus, I've been the subject of an internal affairs report AND there has been an inquiry to the LSPD about this.

That has, just from the PD side of things created roleplay that @Clank, myself, Joe Riggy, Alex Schill and Mike Luigi have all taken part in to some degree and that doesn't happen if Lewis doesn't take those vehicles. Then you look at people from Weazel like Hermann and Grace getting involved. You've got Cyrus Raven on his soap box. You've got Elena Flores defending the LSPD and issuing statements.

Additionally, you have Weazel employees making accusations against Lewis, you have the medical roleplay involving Andy Tyrie which I was involved in, that involved the Chief of MD, the Assistant Chief of MD, The Warden, whatever Jimimthy is, Lewis, Emily Whitehorse, Hope Kant, Julia Whitehorse, Phillipe Sanchez, Scott Dunbar and myself.

It's my long winded way of saying that, just because you do not personally agree with a certain type of roleplay, does not mean that it is necessarily bad for the server. I've had to learn that the hard way because I've had a fair but to say about the whole Judicial Branch / Law Review Committee and I still think that whole thing is massively convoluted and detrimental to the server. I'll fucking die of old age on that hill and I'll die alone but as a player base we're not appreciative of that level of roleplay and don't have a high enough quality of roleplayer to consistently make it make sense. 

Two things.

1.  I'm sorry but the only people that should be trusted to be the ultimate in-character authority in the server, are individuals that the founders have decided to be head administrators. Because they are best placed to consider all the angles and ultimately, they are in those positions because they are trusted the most by the server owners OOC to run the community. If you can run a community, you can run an IC government.
   
   SAGOV is basically like Lewis' party faction. Dude just wants to attend parties, have meetings and live his best life. 
    
2. Weazel being a government funded faction, then turning around and every now and then slandering key personnel in government factions is low-key, high-key retarded. It would be like someone working in the media at XBOX, putting out statements that Phil Spencer, the CEO is corrupt. You'd get fired so fast for doing that shit, not get your keyboard taken away. You don't see Saudi news stations talking shit about the Sheikh do you?
   
   Can't complain about GOV taking your vehicles when they are literally paying for them. They don't own their building, they don't own their vehicles, hell even the uniforms are a rental and you're just going to slander THE boss and not expect anything to happen lmao? 
   
   I see three potential ways Weazel can progress, at this point. Because the server does not need a second news faction, any more than it needed a third mechanic faction or a law review committee.
   
   ONE. The current leadership agrees to an OOC moderation of it's content, where the output either makes sense for a government-funded news outlet or they are willing to remove people that post inflammatory content which would have in-character consequences for the company.
   
   TWO. Weazel News becomes a privately run news company in-character but is still funded OOCly by GOV, as they are now. Perhaps @Bakmeel 's group of multi-nationalist criminal book readers can be behind the purchase. Lewis gets himself a new helicopter for Shadows to use as target practice, Hermann can do his best Nigel Farage impersonation except instead of against immigrants, it's against law enforcement and this shit sort of makes a bit more sense. 
   
   THREE. We open up new applications for a Weazel News CEO, someone like @Ash who is going to take it in a different direction in-character. I like what he's been going with the Cobb Blog. Weazel isn't full of shit roleplayers and Asbo wasn't a shit leader either, but I don't think the current direction is sustainable.

Oh and @Paulius - my eastern european homie, please just put their adverts above the minimap, like we do for the lottery. That way, we keep the chatbox free but they can still get their adverts out there. 

Been a while since I've done one of these, felt pretty good.

I have to disagree. Lewis' approach to issues has drastically changed since I first started playing. I know that key individuals in this roleplay are extremely unhappy with how they're being treated, both from an OOC and IC perspective. I'm not going to name names because that is not fair. If they'd like to speak here, I very much encourage them to. Lewis should be extremely aware of the delicate nature of the position he's holding, and not be allowed to run what is essentially a secret police without sizable retaliation. Shadows kills him, and quite literally nothing happens. The "board of governors" cracks down on them three times as hard, and the government doesn't change their ways.

Weazel employees have not made accusations, they have made clear statements of fact. I have seen the footage of the DOC situation, and it's kind of cringe to be threatening people with IC administrative action because they won't let you abuse/harrass somebody else IC. You of all people should see where I'm coming from on this.

[CalvinKlein]

2 minutes ago, HobGoblin said:

I understand people might not like how GOV works but I don't see anyone else other than head admins being able to run GOV. They need access to admin things to be able to run GOV without that a lot would be missing.

One can say the same about gangs however there is Faction management for Legal and illegal factions.

The same way Cartel exists ICly, a "shadow government or corp" can exist ICly to possible interfere if the IC mixed with the OOC and FM's IC intervention was needed.

[Bala]

Lewis is the best man for the job. He's the only head administrator that actually wants to do it as well, which limits the options.
Democracy works in real life but on here, we'd end up electing Ronnie Bathsheba or Luke Lennon. I love you Ronnie and praise Flarg, but that's not something we need to see.

Anyone that thinks otherwise should be cuffed to a hospital bed like Andy Tyrie was.