Add masks in road worker job

[Cyrus Raven]

Recently developers removed masks from freelance jobs:

- Disable mask on freelance job uniforms

I believe this should be reversed partially or in full and the ability to remove or put on a mask should be allowed. Previously, I believe you had to start the job with a mask and it would remain on. However, the ability to remove it wouldn't be available until after a player does /quitjob. I would assume this is what encouraged the removal of masks in freelance jobs all together.

It's also a shame that this was removed OOC'ly when we already have IC decisions surrounding this issue (See: #23-CM-0036, State of San Andreas v. Frank Haswell)

Imo, best solution is to fix the issue that existed in the first place, allowing players to put on/remove masks regardless of job and then allow things to progress IC'ly if needed in terms of Police enforcing Face Concealment laws, etc...

Edit: A day later the following entry in the dev changelog was added

- Fix masks in job uniforms

But I'm not sure if this means it was reversed or if another aspect was fixed

Edited December 20, 2023 by Cyrus Raven

[alexalex303]

26 minutes ago, Cyrus Raven said:

- Fix masks in job uniforms

But I'm not sure if this means it was reversed or if another aspect was fixed

A bug was fixed that did not allow you to alias people. You still can not wear a mask.

[Cyrus Raven]

17 minutes ago, alexalex303 said:

A bug was fixed that did not allow you to alias people. You still can not wear a mask.

Thanks for clarifying

[Requiem]

I do not agree with the suggestion. While I agree that some thing should be allowed ICly to be dealt with ICly in the same terms, other things are, such as this, better for the realism of the server. We already have a problem in the server of everyone wearing a mask 24/7 that really is not immersive for RP purposes. In reality, you would never see construction or road working crews on the side of the road all masked up with ski masks or T-shirt masks to hide their identity. Same goes with any other freelance job on the server, whether that's burgershot workers, mechanics, coroners, etc. The one and only exception to this would be some kind of air filter or gas mask in extreme situations of construction or hazardous environments. I believe this is a step in the right direction to keep folks working a legal job more immersed and more realistic. 

Edited December 20, 2023 by Requiem

[Cyrus Raven]

2 hours ago, Requiem said:

I do not agree with the suggestion. While I agree that some thing should be allowed ICly to be dealt with ICly in the same terms, other things are, such as this, better for the realism of the server. We already have a problem in the server of everyone wearing a mask 24/7 that really is not immersive for RP purposes. In reality, you would never see construction or road working crews on the side of the road all masked up with ski masks or T-shirt masks to hide their identity. Same goes with any other freelance job on the server, whether that's burgershot workers, mechanics, coroners, etc. The one and only exception to this would be some kind of air filter or gas mask in extreme situations of construction or hazardous environments. I believe this is a step in the right direction to keep folks working a legal job more immersed and more realistic. 

I get what you're saying but this is the opposite of a good direction for the server because it doesn't fix the root issue. The majority of players don't wear masks 24/7 all willy nilly because they can and/or want to, they wear masks 24/7 because every player on the server has an eye of sauron beam that can magically spot a player's alias through car doors and windows making it impossible for someone to exist without being spotted instantly. They do it because it's otherwise impossible to remain even remotely anonymous/undetected.

Would you consider that immersive?

If you want a fix for the mask issue it starts with severely reducing the /alias range on foot and making it completely invisible when inside vehicles (unless /window is used). As for reporting,  players would always have IDs which display at the same range it is set right now.

I don't think the solution to excessive use of mask is removing a function which is already accounted for IC'ly and has had extensive RP surrounding it, you're only applying a bit of flex tape to a dam that has already ruptured.

Edited December 20, 2023 by Cyrus Raven

[Requiem]

3 hours ago, Cyrus Raven said:

I get what you're saying but this is the opposite of a good direction for the server because it doesn't fix the root issue. The majority of players don't wear masks 24/7 all willy nilly because they can and/or want to, they wear masks 24/7 because every player on the server has an eye of sauron beam that can magically spot a player's alias through car doors and windows making it impossible for someone to exist without being spotted instantly. They do it because it's otherwise impossible to remain even remotely anonymous/undetected.

Would you consider that immersive?

If you want a fix for the mask issue it starts with severely reducing the /alias range on foot and making it completely invisible when inside vehicles (unless /window is used). As for reporting,  players would always have IDs which display at the same range it is set right now.

I don't think the solution to excessive use of mask is removing a function which is already accounted for IC'ly and has had extensive RP surrounding it, you're only applying a bit of flex tape to a dam that has already ruptured.

agreed this isn't the fix to the root of the problem, but why does anyone doing freelance work need to be anonymous or keep their identity hidden? No reason to use a mask doing this type of work. 

[Cyrus Raven]

48 minutes ago, Requiem said:

agreed this isn't the fix to the root of the problem, but why does anyone doing freelance work need to be anonymous or keep their identity hidden? No reason to use a mask doing this type of work. 

To answer your question directly, I don't think they need to be anonymous or keep their identity hidden, but I think they should have the ability if they want and I think there's IC reasons to support masks such as road worker incident and players RPing masks as protective gear (like the case I linked).

Then there's the general point I'm making, people use masks 24/7, even in these jobs, because it is so easy to spot someone you've previously aliased. Whether it's driving at high-speeds and being able to perfectly and accurately tell who someone is or being able to walk into a crowd of 50 players and have a perfect view of everyone's names, both of these are highly unrealistic.

Maybe this should be a suggestion to overhaul how /alias works, but there's been enough of those threads made, I specifically wanted this change overturned because there's been prior RP surrounding it, there's IC ways to deal with it and (in my view), it borders power gaming.

[PurplePlant]

-1 if you are working a freelance job it should force you into a uniform because that's realistic to expect the company to make you wear a uniform. Wearing a mask while doing roadwork is the only exception I see here as it was given an IC pass because of the debree you might inhale. other than that I don't see it as realistic especially if we are talking about alias which is another problem.

[Victor Einhart]

What positive contribution does wearing a mask bring to freelance jobs?

I'm wondering why you'd want to wear one, apart from trying to play into the alias mechanic.

[Cyrus Raven]

2 hours ago, Victor Einhart said:

What positive contribution does wearing a mask bring to freelance jobs?

I don't think there needs to necessarily be a positive contribution and I don't really know what you mean by that as it sounds subjective.

One positive contribution has been the prior court case I linked in the original post.

2 hours ago, Victor Einhart said:

 

 

2 hours ago, Victor Einhart said:

I'm wondering why you'd want to wear one, apart from trying to play into the alias mechanic.

Removing one of the key aspects as to why everyone wears mask is a bit silly to me, that's a very big reason.

Apart from that very big reason, it's also a pretty harmless player choice, people can choose to wear a mask as a way to RP protection from a hazard depending on the freelance job or a variety of other reasons.

Keep in mind, I'm in the corner of those who hate the constant use of masks on the server, but frankly it's fully justified given the way the alias mechanic works, should focus on fixing that instead of removing ability to wear masks in freelance jobs.

[PurplePlant]

I personally don't think many would RP wearing a mask for the RP but rather to avoid being detected and I think that's the main issue here for criminals to be identified while doing freelance work which the devs made a change.

Edited December 22, 2023 by PurplePlant

[Cyrus Raven]

1 hour ago, PurplePlant said:

I personally don't think many would RP wearing a mask for the RP but rather to avoid being detected and I think that's the main issue here for criminals to be identified while doing freelance work which the devs made a change.

Sure, I don't disagree, but why implement a script change when you can tackle the issue ICly? 

The impound lot has been a point of contention for a long time especially in early EU hours where players are sometimes waiting hours for their car to be released, yet no changes have happened to that system because of the RP ops it may present.

 

I see the freelance change in the same way, I'm sure some people hate to see tons of players wearing masks, but sounds IC and it can and is handled ICly

[Bala]

No one needs to be masked up when doing a legal freelance activity.

[alexalex303]

2 hours ago, Bala said:

No one needs to be masked up when doing a legal freelance activity.

While I agree with that in spirit, having it forced by the script removes agency from players.

Imagine if you drove by a speed camera and instead of issuing a citation, it forced your speed limiter on 80. That wouldn't feel very good.

It should be up to law enforcement to enforce if its an IC law, and staff team to enforce if its a rule break.

[Oli]

Kinda funny how the people disagreeing are all cops who use "IC issue" in suggestions when it comes to suggestions like reducing license suspension times and that but here in this suggestion that is actually fully and in all means IC, they want it to be forced OOCly.

+1 to the suggestion and to the notes on /alias.

[Bala]

There’s just no need for someone to be masked doing a legal job though. You’re literally given stuff to wear, for a reason. 

That Postal Worker uniform is clapped enough without adding a sci-fi horror mask to it. 

[Oli]

3 minutes ago, Bala said:

There’s just no need for someone to be masked doing a legal job though. You’re literally given stuff to wear, for a reason. 

Still an IC issue and a matter of personal preference that should not be handled or restricted by OOC means.

[PurplePlant]

I think because of the connection to alias a face mask provides its not about RP it's about hiding identity and that's why ooc removal happened not because people role play with a mask on. If they disassociated the two while on freelance then I wouldn't mind it being an IC issue. I also think it should be an appropriate mask for the job like roadworkers wearing protective mask not a penguin mask. Would a gopostal faction really allow people to drive wearing a penguin mask and represent their company that way? No

Edited December 26, 2023 by PurplePlant

[Oli]

So instead of fixing the reason why people use the masks we prevent them from using it using OOC means and give them no freedom of choosing to wear a mask or no?

[Bala]

3 hours ago, Oli said:

Still an IC issue and a matter of personal preference that should not be handled or restricted by OOC means.

So is whether or not you wear a uniform and that is hard coded.
This server is incapable of controlling itself outside of being mollycoddled by the script, this has been proven time and time again. 

All due respect but people only wanna keep it IC when it benefits them, regardless of what they are in the server.

Just keep the working man, mask free and keep it moving.

Edited December 26, 2023 by Bala

[Cyrus Raven]

2 hours ago, Bala said:

So is whether or not you wear a uniform and that is hard coded.
This server is incapable of controlling itself outside of being mollycoddled by the script, this has been proven time and time again. 

All due respect but people only wanna keep it IC when it benefits them, regardless of what they are in the server.

Just keep the working man, mask free and keep it moving.

I'm sorry but this is bull. Realistically speaking a fully uniformed worker on a construction site won't be spotted and identified instantly as someone speeds past at 80km/h, that's the issue. So I don't know why you make it sound like this script change was needed to "control" players. 

Not gonna keep repeating what I've written about /alias but that's the core reason for wanting to role back this change. If /alias changes then this script change is positive imo even though there are legitimate IC reasons for wanting to wear a mask such as hazards in road worker job that are equally backed up by months of legal RP.

[Bala]

5 hours ago, Cyrus Raven said:

I'm sorry but this is bull. Realistically speaking a fully uniformed worker on a construction site won't be spotted and identified instantly as someone speeds past at 80km/h, that's the issue. So I don't know why you make it sound like this script change was needed to "control" players. 

Not gonna keep repeating what I've written about /alias but that's the core reason for wanting to role back this change. If /alias changes then this script change is positive imo even though there are legitimate IC reasons for wanting to wear a mask such as hazards in road worker job that are equally backed up by months of legal RP.

Ain't nobody doing the road worker job that is looking to mask up for in-character hazards LMAO, what server are you on?
It's difficult to take someone doing a legal job, seriously, when they're putting out a fire with a giant fish face on their head. 

I know players won't self-regulate that so it becomes necessary to force it upon people.
It's a job that is frequented by new players and it's not a good thing to get new people into the mentally that a mask solves their problems, in their formative days in the server.

Don't start with the legal RP stuff, the disparity between that stuff and what actually goes on is an ever widing chasm.

[alexalex303]

32 minutes ago, Bala said:

Ain't nobody doing the road worker job that is looking to mask up for in-character hazards LMAO, what server are you on?
It's difficult to take someone doing a legal job, seriously, when they're putting out a fire with a giant fish face on their head. 

I know players won't self-regulate that so it becomes necessary to force it upon people.
It's a job that is frequented by new players and it's not a good thing to get new people into the mentally that a mask solves their problems, in their formative days in the server.

Don't start with the legal RP stuff, the disparity between that stuff and what actually goes on is an ever widing chasm.

If we're looking at it that way, it's not a good thing to get new people into the mentality that the script is king and roleplay comes second.

 

[Bala]

52 minutes ago, alexalex303 said:

If we're looking at it that way, it's not a good thing to get new people into the mentality that the script is king and roleplay comes second.

But that is how it is though and that's not going to change, so why are we still trying to do that in 2024? How many failed schemes or reboots does there need to be where people just miss the obvious.

Script is King. Script was king in 2019, Script is king in 2023 and spoiler, it'll be king in 2024 as well.

How many people play themselves here and how many player a character? How many make decisions based on what makes sense in RP and how many make decisions based on the best possible outcome for themselves?

Ol' Fishface is gunna have to wait till he clocks off, until he can mask up again. It's a good change and it was about time.

[Cyrus Raven]

Quote

I know players won't self-regulate that so it becomes necessary to force it upon people.
It's a job that is frequented by new players and it's not a good thing to get new people into the mentally that a mask solves their problems, in their formative days in the server.

You completely missed the reason why people don't self-regulate when it comes to masks