Civ RP is dead

[checkky]

Hello Eclipse Roleplay Community!
 

As I'm sure to everyone who plays the server at the moment, Civ RP is currently thee most dead its ever been. The server is very much focused on making Cops and Crims happy, and forgot to make the Civs happy also. I'm making this thread not for arguments about Cops vs. Crims. I'm making this thread to allow some of the players within the community to voice their opinion of what could be added to make Civ RP better for the community. Positive feedback is appreciated!

[Harveyyy]

Buff civilian jobs that allow for more interactions between players. For example, fishing. Buff the prices of the fish and make it worth the time. People love money, use that to push people, even some crims, to do it. Create a drop-off point near the Pier - doesn't have to be on the pier, but somewhere in Vespucci where it's close enough so people won't have to use their cars.

This isn't the first time someone propose this, but I figured I should propose it again cuz why not..

[DoTo]

Fixing civilian RP as a system is not hard.

Make an easy process for RP businesses to exist, subsidize them with a system that makes sure the people operating the business are ABLE to make a decent amount of income from roleplay without having to sell items or services for a silly high price. This doesn't even need script support.

If we're talking script support, there's still not too many additions that need to be done. 
Essentially, all that's needed is an item generator script. Let business owners and employees generate items with icons and names that they can sell. They don't need to do anything, maybe food can be consumed, that'd be nice.

Letting players work at convenience stores would also be super cool. Have them take orders and process them.

The server needs freelance jobs that people can do where they are rewarded for the ROLEPLAY that they do, not them doing a repetitive script. That would go a long way. 

Burger Shot was a great step towards this. Unfortunately, as fun as the roadworking job may be, I think it  was a step away from that again.

[Hanro]

We need an item printer.

Something that is PURELY for roleplay. An item that can "make" another item with a custom name (obviously within an RP sense that can be checked), and perhaps with a custom background picture and purpose. Lets say a restaurant wants to serve a pasta, but the only "food items" are cooked meat. You could use the printer to create an item called "Shrimp Alfredo", which perhaps could use ingredients, such as cooked meat, so you're not just creating things out of thin air, you're using an item to create an item. Doing this, turns the item into a food item that could be consumed.

Other items for roleplay that could be utilized are drinks at a bar, speeding tickets, random items so business other than clubs/restaurants/bars can open.

This could lead to some great roleplay, and personally I would look forward to creating different scenarios with different items.

Edited July 24, 2023 by Hanro

[Bala]

To tell you the truth, I couldn't honestly tell you where the focus is anymore, we're all a bit all of the place. I look at the experience of being a cop and listen to some of the opinions of my own faction members and could quite easily make a similar thread to you Checkky, about how being in PD feels. I'm sure there are crims who could likely do the same and there would be a fair bit of merit to what they say.

I've been here for about 4 and a half years now and I have to be honest with you, I still think it's a server that works best as cops v. criminals as opposed to trying to really cater to other types of roleplay. I look at the quality of roleplay available, I look at how tribal everything gets between factions and I think it's just a natural fit for any GTA RP server to focus on bad guys and good guys.

Civilian RP struggles to find its place, because there isn't a framework and importance on things like character customisation and character development. There's a lot of just playing yourself or if they do delve a little bit, they realise it's probably not to their advantage to go too deep with it when a lot of the fellow players just care about whether a situation goes in their favour.

I got all the respect for people that don't want to be in a crim faction or don't want to be in law enforcement but in terms of what it does for the server, I think focusing on improving crim and cop does more for this server than civvy RP.

[britbritxo]

I think there is a bit of an uprising of civ business owner RP from people who are focused on the community and businesses and helping them run/thrive. I hope more support/infrastructure could be set up to help support civs who want to run legit businesses to interact with the community (all sides/factions). I think you'll find there are quite a few like minded people who want to make fun/innovative ways for civs to interact and hopefully this takes off. That being said, I'm interested to see what people suggest.  

[Cyrus Raven]

Civ RP is absolutely not dead, but....

Things need some improvement. The motivation is there, a recent example is Infinity Enterprises and the people behind that business. They are setting up events, planning and offering IC services for an affordable price (stuff that smaller businesses need like advertisements, posters, videos, etc...). The same is true with other businesses that open on a weekly basis.

But there is a need to streamline things and make it easier for these businesses to exist and operate.

We need business bank accounts. These were teased probably a year+ ago and nothing happened. It would be perfect to be able to separate personal wealth from business related income.

We need an F4 like system where people can pay 50,000$ (or whatever) to have access to basic tools like managing salaries, employees, roles, permissions for vehicles/properties, business bank account access, etc...

We need a way to make items (even if the effects are non-existent) as already mentioned above.

A server that wants to be a medium-high quality RP server needs to support civilian players and businesses, otherwise you're better off just calling this Eclipse Cops and Robbers.

[Cyrus Raven]

To add on, I think recent updates have been great, criminal RP has been lacking and they need attention, Bala isn't wrong to say that those are probably the main player base and area of concern, but please don't forget the other players who don't fit into Crim or Cop.

[alexalex303]

I might be biased in my point of view, but I believe that civilian RP is doing well, especially compared to the past. If you had told me in 2019 that ECRP was going to have a fully functioning executive branch I would've said you're crazy, and yet here we are.

Civilian RP has been on the raise, and while I'm sure that it could be better supported, I would not say its dying, not at all.

[Puzzling]

I wouldn't necessarily say that Civilian RP is dead, Gov seems to be doing decent, government funded jobs are doing pretty good for the most part. I think what you are getting at is Business RP is struggling.

The biggest fix would to make an easier way for businesses to get access to the treasury options of an F4 menu. I can only speak from my experience trying to open up a mechanic shop, the only way to get that treasury is by getting official. As a business you don't gain any functionality from an F4 menu unlike criminal factions with imports, NPCs, Turfs or government funded factions with badges.

Getting an *business* (legal) F4 should be something your business can apply to get after a month or two so long as your business is active, having openings etc. If everyone is so worried about F4 chat being abused I'm sure you could find a work around, whether it be changing the script to include a setting to toggle it until you get official or something.

Allow those business F4's to use badges like other legal jobs so you can promote your business since it is already implemented. The treasury is also very nice and already in the game.

 

If you want to implement something via the script, what others have said above about maybe an "item creator" such as custom imports of different foods / drinks with different images instead of the default burger, we don't need custom models, I mean fish are still the french fry model in game. Instead of giving a business the option to item print, make a new department such as Department of Commerce and Labor, that would essentially import items that businesses would have to buy. RP the cost of importing them from x Company, then they can sell those food/drink items for whatever profit they see fit.

Obviously not all businesses are going to have food and drink as the main item, however it would be a good basis to start because 80% of  businesses are based on being Nightclubs, bars, restaurants, or something to deal with selling food/water. Say for example I open up a UFC type thing, I could go out to these businesses and get unique food that isn't just burgers and water, which ultimately expands all the RP for all businesses involved. 

If the "item creator" works by something like

/import "Name" "Qty" "Type(food/water/item)" "Img Link" 

then you could make food, drinks, or items that do nothing, such as collectables, or business specific items. For example mechanic shops could sell little air fresheners you put in the glovebox, a fight club could print a belt/trophy they could hold on to. It would have no functionality except for a name and image for your inventory.

 

(I am at work so hopefully this sorta makes sense I didn't put too much thought in to it, more just what would be cool to see on the server)

[checkky]

12 minutes ago, Puzzling said:

The biggest fix would to make an easier way for businesses to get access to the treasury options of an F4 menu. I can only speak from my experience trying to open up a mechanic shop, the only way to get that treasury is by getting official. As a business you don't gain any functionality from an F4 menu unlike criminal factions with imports, NPCs, Turfs or government funded factions with badges

This was teased years ago and honestly have no idea why it was forgotten. 

Edited July 26, 2023 by Checkky

[Puzzling]

Never forget

[Kazjii]

I do not think civ RP is dead nor do I think it is a major result of scripting. I think some scripting could be useful and 100% would be nice if implemented for salary and treasury payout, but I would like to remind you that the criminal community told many members of staff that business and IC ventures (that would fall into the realm of what you're talking about) would be much more prominent when and if guns were made cheaper - this was done and not a single thing that many people within the criminal community wanted to do has had action taken and started.

As you know about the theatre and Ally's BASH (formerly VICE) company, the want and desire is there from the community, BUT the codependency for a script to be needed in every square inch of your endeavor is simply not a realistic way to go upon your experience in this server or really any server of that matter. The church, the theatre, the music studio, the event company - all done without any script. You just need to not be boring and find a way to stop people from NonRP crashing your idea/events.

Common theme, you want and want and want but then abuse or misuse the idea at hand when its developed. Businesses often fail because people are not accountable and cant give merit to a gang banger who wants them to do XYZ service. A large part of what the community would benefit from would be consumer service but most of the community falls within a LEO or crim player, neither typically care for a "consumer service" and if they did, it most likely would be trolled on and therefore ruining any source of motivation, its happened multiple times speaking from experience.

Its hard work and that's how it should be, if it was easy, everyone would do it. 

[TheCactus]

If it's dead rn you should've seen 2018/2019. Back in the day civilian RP was a thing for new players before joining a (criminal) faction and LSC mechanics. Nowadays we got a lot of choice, scripted jobs, non-scripted business opportunities, events, etc. It ain't all about fishing and making money.

If all you see in civilian roleplay is legal work then you either have to create the work or work for someone. The problem is not a lot of people have good ideas that would actually work in the current economy or the money to support those business ideas. 

When it comes to civilian roleplay that isn't all money and grind, the community as a whole is lacking even more. Car shows and clubs. That's all I see. Boooring

[XeV]

54 minutes ago, Kazjii said:

I do not think civ RP is dead nor do I think it is a major result of scripting. I think some scripting could be useful and 100% would be nice if implemented for salary and treasury payout, but I would like to remind you that the criminal community told many members of staff that business and IC ventures (that would fall into the realm of what you're talking about) would be much more prominent when and if guns were made cheaper - this was done and not a single thing that many people within the criminal community wanted to do has had action taken and started.

As you know about the theatre and Ally's BASH (formerly VICE) company, the want and desire is there from the community, BUT the codependency for a script to be needed in every square inch of your endeavor is simply not a realistic way to go upon your experience in this server or really any server of that matter. The church, the theatre, the music studio, the event company - all done without any script. You just need to not be boring and find a way to stop people from NonRP crashing your idea/events.

Common theme, you want and want and want but then abuse or misuse the idea at hand when its developed. Businesses often fail because people are not accountable and cant give merit to a gang banger who wants them to do XYZ service. A large part of what the community would benefit from would be consumer service but most of the community falls within a LEO or crim player, neither typically care for a "consumer service" and if they did, it most likely would be trolled on and therefore ruining any source of motivation, its happened multiple times speaking from experience.

Its hard work and that's how it should be, if it was easy, everyone would do it. 

YO HE SPITTING! but to go with what Kazj has said, OTF had made a business down in Jamestown revolving around nothing but interaction and RP, we sold cooked meat for a SMALL profit right around the time all the food got taken out of stores because burgershot was SO DAMN expensive. I would spend HOURS at the hunting grounds talking to players about selling me their raw meat for the same price of the butcher but I would give cold hard untaxed cash, and it worked WONDERFULLY we ran that business to heavens gates, and it was SO much fun, but fuck it became a 2nd job on top of my real one. I put pretty much 95% of my time into running that store (making rp posters, hosting events, making connections with local shop owners for cheap water, striking a sponsorship with Atomic Auto's to give out cheap vehicles, hunting for the meat myself). 

Rage as a launcher is Insanely limited to what can be made, but you just got to make do with what you got. THE NUMBER 1 KILLER to any CivRP business is EXACTLY what Kazj said - Trolling. When you are SUPER stoked to make something and you make it. only for a rag tag group of people just not here for the right reasons to come and belittle everything you created because they are bored you tend to just drop it and move on. 

I was fully intending on turning my Grove street arcade building into a fully functioning arcade place with a custom website of little miniclip games to play and giving out rewards to people based on Highscores of the week/month etc..., but the majority of the active player base is just too harsh on people tryna have fun. Let us never forget the iconic "Pier Gang" because you just wanted to socialize with the community at the hub. 

[Puzzling]

Alrighty no one is saying that Civilian RP is DEAD... OP missed the mark with that one but you can still improve things and it is slacking as it always has been for those saying "oh in 2018-19". Obviously, the server was MUCH more cops vs crim back when the server was new. I only started playing 2020(?) but that was with The Council running everyone's pockets and there was zero support for businesses, the scripts were slowly improving over time, there wasn't a government branch we just had commissioners that were head admins. We at least have some sort of government branch now though the governors are still all head admins, maybe we eventually get appointed governors through elections and such with term limits so we don't have the same officials (for any government funded business tbh) for years on end. Maybe that will help things change and new ideas get pushed through the chain. What the government branch has turned into is pretty epic. There was a bit of script change with the SAAA which only applies to a very tiny part of the community that plays ECRP. I really do like the idea but it is so gate kept by the prices.

Government funded jobs have pretty much stayed the same since I joined the server except for like DCC getting a phone app instead of a command to call them. I can't really recall anything new being added to them for as long as I've been on the server. There are plenty of suggestions on the forums for improved scripts or even RP that could be implemented for these jobs. Though a lot of the Government funded jobs have taken the initiative to add more RP divisions and that is cool to see. DCC now has an internal mechanic branch to help fix taxis and they are trained by Bayview. MD has a bunch of divisions such as lifeguard, forensics, AMU (surgery), and of plenty others. I am sure PD/SD have their RP branches I just haven't been in those factions long enough.

Freelance jobs just haven't been touched except with the addition of BurgerShot and I think the bus job just got a fix? I don't know if the coroner's job is still broken but that job was dead faster than the bodies were dropping, making people stay at calls for them to arrive was the biggest flaw so no one called and very few people worked. All those scripts are the exact same except now mostly all of them have the little minigame instead of timers.

Business RP has improved a lot because people are now allowed to get properties, that is the only script support that has ever been implemented. I am not sure when business properties even first got implemented but I have seen plenty of clubs and restaurants open and close within a few months. People try and try and sure maybe most of the community just isn't interested in hanging out and a club or one night or doing some extra RP to support a restaurant or whatever the business might be week in and week out. Sure it is up to the business owners to advertise and make their place unique. All we are asking is the ability to have more uniqueness, if it isn't possible with Rage just let us know so we stop asking. I am assuming it is very possible considering its just different images. Its the same cycle of a new business it opens a few times then slowly fizzles out. With script support (not codependency as made very obvious by the various attempts by a ton of different people to open businesses) it would make businesses more unique and be able to offer something that isn't a raffle for people to take home as I said in my last point.

 

18 hours ago, TheCactus said:

It ain't all about fishing and making money.

the entire server is built off of assets and the community makes that more of an issue.

 

18 hours ago, XeV said:

but the majority of the active player base is just too harsh on people tryna have fun.

very true, god forbid a bunch of people want to fish and socialize. That and they just change the rules around social hubs to make people spend more money or get tickets. Parking Pay at the bank originally so you couldn't hang there without cops towing your vehicles or paying $100 a minute or something. Then pier parking pay which resulted in the same thing. Thankfully I think the parking meters have been removed. Maybe pier will become a hub for socializing again because of that.

 

18 hours ago, XeV said:

I would spend HOURS at the hunting grounds talking to players about selling me their raw meat for the same price of the butcher but I would give cold hard untaxed cash,

W business and W mindset, though how sick would it be if you could have custom pictures like "Jamestown Jerky" or whatever else you could think of! There are definitely people who are 100% down to grind and try to make a business succeed with the current tools. No one is taking away the hard work people like Brit, VeX, and a few others have put in to make businesses work that aren't the normal scripted business very few people will ever get their hands on.

 

The Devs have been putting in a lot of good work and no one is saying the updates aren't fun to play with and enjoy, but civilian just needs some work, the clothing update has been delayed twice for the drug update and the gun update im pretty sure, only one of which has been implemented so far. If businesses were more unique with items they could sell this would benefit everyone, not even just the "civilian" players. people like VeX and OTF and their meat market could thrive and help improve the crim RP by providing a legal front to a business that isn't just a night club with a cover charge.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[XeV]

Also seeing @Puzzling comment on here brings up another thing that I will NEVER let ecrp live down. Mirror Park Tuning. Now that business was top of its class and had the support of the majority of the community. Why? because it was doing something no one imagined possible, just a run of the mill mechanic shop for car enthusiasts. Now lets keep it blunt and sweet and just make it clear that ECRP and their mindset killed this faction at its peak and left A LOT of people with a nasty taste in their mouth. This faction was run by a staff member of fantastic standing in the community both legal and illegal and had the backing of the majority of the "civrp" player base. GOD FORBID criminals make 3k an hour standing at a mechanic shop with friends and doing mechanic RP instead of shooting police over minor inconveniences, but despite all the effort and struggle homie went through staff team shut that shit down so quick.

MPT was a sister bayview or at least that's what we called it. It had the im pretty sure just the bayview script on the OOC end to be able to hire people,BUT they were only allowed to do repairs :shrug: whatever shit went SWIMINGLY and a lot people even began working there and a majority of the community even took the extra time to only get repairs their even though u for some reason had to hand over cash :shrug:. Well MPT got a little TOO popular and from an outside perspective seems like some people wanted to shut that down. "we do not want criminals using government tools" ok so lets do the RP of acquiring our own tools and we do not have to worry about that "no". Puzzling lowkey fought tooth and nail for his dream to come true and hit the HIGHEST peak possible and STILL tried to make it work with all the hurdles being thrown his way. Eventually shit just became to much and I am pretty sure any sane human being would have given up when Puzzling did cause it was shit HURDLE after HURDLE after HURDLE.

so seeing a member of the community at the standing @Puzzling was, not be able to do a business dream like he did, why would some random joe try to do it? I ran that meat shop SOLELY for the purpose of I knew I could do it with only me, did not need script support what so ever and it was word of mouth. I despised the high prices of burgershot and the devs update to stores with submarines,tacos, etc... so I acted on it. Not really because I wanted to do the business but really because burgershot is ass. :shrug: 

Edited July 27, 2023 by XeV

[TheCactus]

@XeV Allowing factions to use another faction's script can really be a mess as time goes on. The script for factions is old and receives minor updates every now and then. What we would actually need are scripts that allow repairing cars or running businesses without having to rely heavily on the staff team (because let's be serious: without a moderator or the script, your roleplayed business is completely non-functional and dies).

At some point I suggested something that may give more power to the players, help with the LSC issue and push towards creating businesses and more RP but I guess it has never been a priority

 

Edited July 27, 2023 by TheCactus

[Charlie Mchoe]

Multiple jobs (Burgershot, roadworkers ect.) have been made to increase civilian rp multiple mlos and properties have been added.

Many civilian jobs are offered through ic advertisements such as bartenders, bouncers and even strippers!

Doesn't need any development on it at all. it can all be done via ic means if people actually care about it.

 

In my opinion civilian rp doesn't really need a change, if you believe it's dead or dying please make more events, now that you personally have access to the cheaper weapons you wished for you should now have lots of money spare (which is not actually needed to make an event) to spend on great events for the community which then provides civilians with roleplay whether it's via an ic job or just by being there at the event!

[Charlie Mchoe]

On 7/24/2023 at 11:27 PM, Hanro said:

We need an item printer.

Something that is PURELY for roleplay. An item that can "make" another item with a custom name (obviously within an RP sense that can be checked), and perhaps with a custom background picture and purpose. Lets say a restaurant wants to serve a pasta, but the only "food items" are cooked meat. You could use the printer to create an item called "Shrimp Alfredo", which perhaps could use ingredients, such as cooked meat, so you're not just creating things out of thin air, you're using an item to create an item. Doing this, turns the item into a food item that could be consumed.

Other items for roleplay that could be utilized are drinks at a bar, speeding tickets, random items so business other than clubs/restaurants/bars can open.

This could lead to some great roleplay, and personally I would look forward to creating different scenarios with different items.

@Hanro

pretty cool. not sure where it's at in development but it exist somewhat.

[Bronnen]

So that's absolutely what i'm trying to do with the Ordo Templarii. Make a civ focused organization focused on like community shit.

[exaal]

On 7/26/2023 at 10:26 PM, Puzzling said:

Never forget

we need this please

[Donovan]

On 7/25/2023 at 2:36 AM, Bala said:

To tell you the truth, I couldn't honestly tell you where the focus is anymore, we're all a bit all of the place. I look at the experience of being a cop and listen to some of the opinions of my own faction members and could quite easily make a similar thread to you Checkky, about how being in PD feels. I'm sure there are crims who could likely do the same and there would be a fair bit of merit to what they say.

I've been here for about 4 and a half years now and I have to be honest with you, I still think it's a server that works best as cops v. criminals as opposed to trying to really cater to other types of roleplay. I look at the quality of roleplay available, I look at how tribal everything gets between factions and I think it's just a natural fit for any GTA RP server to focus on bad guys and good guys.

Civilian RP struggles to find its place, because there isn't a framework and importance on things like character customisation and character development. There's a lot of just playing yourself or if they do delve a little bit, they realise it's probably not to their advantage to go too deep with it when a lot of the fellow players just care about whether a situation goes in their favour.

I got all the respect for people that don't want to be in a crim faction or don't want to be in law enforcement but in terms of what it does for the server, I think focusing on improving crim and cop does more for this server than civvy RP.

^ this is the reality. I've had a similar conversation around 2019 ~ with Purm and cant remember who else, so I don't have to repeat what Balla said using different words or phrasing, point im trying to make is, I can guarantee that every individual no matter what sort of RP are they doing would prefer if they had more features related to the RP they are interested in.

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I am yet to see a single person do the most common RP tasks such as buying groceries and carrying them to their home, driving a town car and not the most expensive/fastest car they own, or taking a shower/putting their clothes on.. Sure people do all that when it comes to character story development posts on forums, but in reality nobody ever does any of these " normie " things on the day to day, I mean nobody even goes to home and RPs going to bed before logging off, but instead just alt f4s either after parking a car or hopping off duty. It's kinda weird to ask for script support or " civilian RP upgrades " when even the most basic things that fall under civ RP something that each and every one of us tho every single day is not present. 

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I understand the idea behind it, but at the end of the day untill the RP Quality of Civ RP is brought to a much higher standard, anything added will be used for a week or two and forgotten unless it brings money, and at that point I believe the time would've been spent better on Legal/Crim side of the things, which are where 90% of the server plays at 

[Cyrus Raven]

27 minutes ago, Donovan said:

^ this is the reality. I've had a similar conversation around 2019 ~ with Purm and cant remember who else, so I don't have to repeat what Balla said using different words or phrasing, point im trying to make is, I can guarantee that every individual no matter what sort of RP are they doing would prefer if they had more features related to the RP they are interested in.

 

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I am yet to see a single person do the most common RP tasks such as buying groceries and carrying them to their home, driving a town car and not the most expensive/fastest car they own, or taking a shower/putting their clothes on.. Sure people do all that when it comes to character story development posts on forums, but in reality nobody ever does any of these " normie " things on the day to day, I mean nobody even goes to home and RPs going to bed before logging off, but instead just alt f4s either after parking a car or hopping off duty. It's kinda weird to ask for script support or " civilian RP upgrades " when even the most basic things that fall under civ RP something that each and every one of us tho every single day is not present. 

 

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I understand the idea behind it, but at the end of the day untill the RP Quality of Civ RP is brought to a much higher standard, anything added will be used for a week or two and forgotten unless it brings money, and at that point I believe the time would've been spent better on Legal/Crim side of the things, which are where 90% of the server plays at 

Imo, Civ RP isn't about the ''normie'' things as you put it, it's about engaging in Roleplay that is outside of the normal Cops vs Robbers dichotomy.

27 minutes ago, Donovan said:

It's kinda weird to ask for script support or " civilian RP upgrades " when even the most basic things that fall under civ RP something that each and every one of us tho every single day is not present. 

I don't think Civ RPers need to first show a commitment to buying groceries RP'ly or RP'ing going to sleep before being able to ask for script support for a basic business bank accounts, the same way I wouldn't feel it's reasonable to expect criminals to RP cooking drugs, chopping cars, getting imports before justifying implementing these as script features. Being a Civ RPer does not mean being an NPC concerned with the most boring and mundane tasks, there's a balance to be had imo, probably not the best use of resources to focus on stuff like item generation until the events/restaurant/retail RP scene picks up more steam instead of being a flavour of the week type of deal, but there should be broader support for suggestions that will impact everyone (e.g. business bank accounts, business F4 menu) which will hopefully pave the way for that type of RP.

Edited August 22, 2023 by Cyrus Raven

[Donovan]

19 minutes ago, Cyrus Raven said:

Imo, Civ RP isn't about the ''normie'' things as you put it, it's about engaging in Roleplay that is outside of the normal Cops vs Robbers dichotomy.

I don't think Civ RPers need to first show a commitment to buying groceries RP'ly or RP'ing going to sleep before being able to ask for script support for a basic business bank accounts, the same way I wouldn't feel it's reasonable to except criminals to RP cooking drugs, chopping cars, getting imports before justifying implementing these as script features. Being a Civ RPer does not mean being an NPC concerned with the most boring and mundane tasks, there's a balance to be had imo, probably not the best use of resources to focus on stuff like item generation until the events/restaurant/retail RP scene picks up more steam instead of being a flavour of the week type of deal, but there should be broader support for suggestions that will impact everyone (e.g. business bank accounts, business F4 menu) which will hopefully pave the way for that type of RP.

I never said suggestions that as a whole improve the experience for example the ones you listed ( bank accounts, business f4 menu etc ) shouldn't be implemented, quite the opposite. But I do believe that CIV RP focused features would be a waste of time from the perspective of usage compared to effort put into them, because if 90% + of the server population is a part of a faction and spend most of their time doing things related to it, the amount of time they will spend on a monthly basis doing something outside of it will not even be comparable to it. Don't get me wrong, I am all up for everything to get more and more things and openings for people to use their creativity and imagination, but from the perspective of time invested I would always go for something that either:
a) every individual playing would use on a daily basis ( such as bank accounts, f4 menu for personal business etc. ) 
b) related to improving the depth of crim or faction rp 

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But in regards to CIV RP, sure I can see where you are coming from, but the same way I didn't agree that every criminal should afk 24/7 in their rv cooking ( when labs were taken out and everyone cooked personally ) I do not agree that every civ should be a businessman. IMO any sort of  improvements/additions will be looked from the POV of " is this going to make me any money ", and not how can I use this to expand on to my roleplay experience.. Cause let's be honest, almost nobody RPs a character or a life, but only a job with hints of a lifestyle/character progression here and there occasionally, so personally I do not see how CIV RP should be focus of improvements while the legal/crim system have a lot to be in terms of providing freedom as to how they spend their day to days, where majority of the players will 

Edited August 22, 2023 by Donovan