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Andor

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So I had a interesting encounter with the PD just now. Tom daniels was being chased and follow by a helichopter. So we deviced a plan, once tom lost the last cruiser he was suppose to
go location where the heli counter see him and we would hide him as I got in the car. We did the switch successful and I drove off, in the speed limit mind you and let the PD catch up to me.
When the cruiser pulled up I pulled over INSTANTLY and asked them what is going on. When the PD realised it wasnt me they decide to charge me instantly and not start role play, as I was 
willing to sell tom out because he "tricked" me. They declined my various attempts on my end even when people shot at the DOC and I said I was being targeted none of the officers wanted 
any RP at all. In the end I was charged with assisting felony evasion ( you can make a case for this sure, even though I complied with EVERYTHING the PD asked of me ) and felony evasion itself.
Now why is that. Why is the PD refusing to end a chase with interesting RP. This drives criminal characters to treat the PD as NPC's and nothing will change in the DM/hands up this is rob culture 
we currently have on this server.
Now I know not all cops are like this, yesterday when I decided to CK my mentally handicapped character some RP was thrown my way be Steele and Paige from the PD which ended up in a hour long session of getting a mentally handicapped man the help he needed. So I know is plenty of room to RP interesting cases. But today I feel, and correct me if im wrong, because tom got away and the PD lost they decided to swing their badges around and slap me with a max prison time because they can. 

I feel this is a returning problem with the PD and situations like this make me not want to do interesting and fun ( hopefully ) rp for both sides. Next time I will just get a pistol and shoot at the cops because they are going to max sentense me anyway

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5 minutes ago, Andor said:

So I had a interesting encounter with the PD just now. Tom daniels was being chased and follow by a helichopter. So we deviced a plan, once tom lost the last cruiser he was suppose to
go location where the heli counter see him and we would hide him as I got in the car. We did the switch successful and I drove off, in the speed limit mind you and let the PD catch up to me.
When the cruiser pulled up I pulled over INSTANTLY and asked them what is going on. When the PD realised it wasnt me they decide to charge me instantly and not start role play, as I was 
willing to sell tom out because he "tricked" me. They declined my various attempts on my end even when people shot at the DOC and I said I was being targeted none of the officers wanted 
any RP at all. In the end I was charged with assisting felony evasion ( you can make a case for this sure, even though I complied with EVERYTHING the PD asked of me ) and felony evasion itself.
Now why is that. Why is the PD refusing to end a chase with interesting RP. This drives criminal characters to treat the PD as NPC's and nothing will change in the DM/hands up this is rob culture 
we currently have on this server.
Now I know not all cops are like this, yesterday when I decided to CK my mentally handicapped character some RP was thrown my way be Steele and Paige from the PD which ended up in a hour long session of getting a mentally handicapped man the help he needed. So I know is plenty of room to RP interesting cases. But today I feel, and correct me if im wrong, because tom got away and the PD lost they decided to swing their badges around and slap me with a max prison time because they can. 

I feel this is a returning problem with the PD and situations like this make me not want to do interesting and fun ( hopefully ) rp for both sides. Next time I will just get a pistol and shoot at the cops because they are going to max sentense me anyway

I can get your point but you did assist in a felony evasion? So what didn't they role-play? I'm confused. They don't need to accept you selling him out do they? As part of their RP?

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4 minutes ago, Denni said:

I can get your point but you did assist in a felony evasion? So what didn't they role-play? I'm confused. They don't need to accept you selling him out do they? As part of their RP?

They never asked me why I was in the car, they straight up bypassed any form of RP and that is what annoys me. Then the felony evasion charge has no base in reality for I didnt do anything close to actually trying to get away. 
I hope this explains a little bit more of the mindset of this post

Edited by Andor

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Just now, Andor said:

They never asked me why I was in the car, they straight up bypassed any form of RP and that is what annoys me. Then the felony evasion charge has no base in reality for I didnt do anything close to actually trying to get away. 
 

Any chance they saw the switch? Any chance helicopter was above during this and followed you? If you stated you wanted to rat Tom Daniels out, surely that means you did help him?

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1 minute ago, Denni said:

Any chance they saw the switch? Any chance helicopter was above during this and followed you? If you stated you wanted to rat Tom Daniels out, surely that means you did help him?

The problem is, that I said a few things when they pulled me over, I asked what was going on ( setting up I was not involved in the chase ), I was told/paid to drive a car for a person I knew a certain direction ( meaning I would have had reasonable denyability ), asked if tom daniels was wanted and I knew where he was. And beyond that I didnt resist, attempt a escape or anything that would imply I was involved in any way shape or form. 
Then the police officer that took me to the DOC lied to me that they already caught tom daniels ( a lie ), that my helping in catching a wanted criminal was not needed and when I brought up that Tom Daniels then would prove my innocense he ignored me and charged me anyway.

Then about the switch, if they saw it, which I doubt, i think they only saw the car stop and move on a little bit later ( we were under a roof at the time ). Then the car changed its behavior in driving speed and never attempted to flee again. 

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So yeah, I was there.

@Andor

Let me explain what happend from our view.

After chasing Tom for a few good minutes he was beginning to get a lot of distance from us. However, a helicopter was still above him.

Shortly later, the helicopter pilot informed us on the radio that the car stopped inside some parking lot of a house, and that another car was there.

When Tom's Elegy drove out we were sure it was him. After pulling the vehicle over and realising the it was not in fact Tom, we came to the logical assumption that Tom dipped his own car and got in the other car. 

Our helicopter was still above the other car, presumably where Tom dipped his own vehicle. So we sped our way there after securing you in a cruiser.

Due to other events that happend as we were driving to you we had to stop and divert to a different situation. I believe at that point we lost all visual on the other vehicle. But due to an irl firealarm I had to log off. So don't quote me on that.

Edited by HaminLord

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4 minutes ago, HaminLord said:

So yeah, I was there.

@Andor

Let me explain what happend from our view.

After chasing Tom for a few good minutes he was beginning to get a lot of distance from us. However, a helicopter was still above him.

Shortly later, the helicopter pilot informed us on the radio that the car stopped inside some parking lot of a house, and that another car was there.

When Tom's Elegy drove out we were sure it was him. After pulling the vehicle over and realising the it was not in fact Tom, we came to the logical assumption that Tom dipped his own car and got in the other car. 

Our helicopter was still above the other car, presumably where Tom dipped his own vehicle. So we sped our way there after securing you in a cruiser.

Due to other events that happend as we were driving to you we had to stop and divert to a different situation. I believe at that point we lost all visual on the other vehicle. But due to an irl firealarm I had to log off. So don't quote me on that.

So the other vehicle that was there wasnt involved in the situation it was my fresh alt bob bobski's car
When tom dibs his vehicle and lies to me to do something, I shoudnt be charged with the crime for I wasnt assisting willingly ( thats saying I can kidnap a taxi driver and put a gun against his head and he gets charged with assisting in felony evading. 
As you were the one IDing me as NOT TOM ( i recall hearing your voice ) i assume you were the first of second on the scene and clearly saw I didnt intend to flee at all.

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12 minutes ago, Andor said:

 ( thats saying I can kidnap a taxi driver and put a gun against his head and he gets charged with assisting in felony evading. 

We have to very careful not to make false equivalences here. If that happened, you would have an obvious perpetrator and an obvious kidnapping situation. If Tom was in the passenger seat aiming a gun at your head, it probably would've ended very differently. This was you driving a wanted car by yourself away from where the wanted man parked it, effectively securing his escape. It's not comparable.

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Just now, Darnell said:

We have to very careful not to make false equivalences here. If that happened, you would have an obvious perpetrator and an obvious kidnapping situation. If Tom was in the passenger seat aiming a gun at your head, it probably would've ended very differently. This was you driving a wanted car by yourself away from where the wanted man parked it, effectively securing his escape. It's not comparable.

I used the most extreme example, but the two situations are simular in nature. Yes I agree that in my situation there would have been a lot of issues, but giving up the suspects location to charge me with a crime I didnt do is also not the way to go about it ( to clarify not debating the assisting charge, but the actual felony evading charge )

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12 minutes ago, Darnell said:

We have to very careful not to make false equivalences here. If that happened, you would have an obvious perpetrator and an obvious kidnapping situation. If Tom was in the passenger seat aiming a gun at your head, it probably would've ended very differently. This was you driving a wanted car by yourself away from where the wanted man parked it, effectively securing his escape. It's not comparable.

IT doesnt matter. RP was BYPASSED by PD like it does quite often. They had no reason to suspect that Andor's new char had any connection with Daniels. He was treated like an accomplice, without even attempting to RP that Daniels got away and they now had no one to take in. So they pretty much said "We will charge this guy with something since Daniels got away.

IRL, they would probably arrest the guy still for QUESTIONING. They would never just straight up give the guy, who did no visible crime, 120 months in jail...

IMO...PD needs to step their RP up. When official gangs are RPing better than they are...it's sad. 

Edited by Nubbsauce

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@Nubbsauce @Andor

I appreciate you guys bringing this discussion forward. I see a few issues with the above comments.

How was this plan formulated, as you clearly stated 

Quote

Tom daniels was being chased and follow by a helichopter. So we deviced a plan, once tom lost the last cruiser he was suppose to
go location where the heli counter see him and we would hide him as I got in the car. We did the switch successful and I drove off, in the speed limit mind you and let the PD catch up to me.

First issue with your plan, the officers had most likely id'd Tom Daniels prior to the swap (he is extremely well known, and is the most arrested person in the city), meaning as soon as they saw 2 cars leave the same area, 1 driving the speed limit and one the opposite direction, assumingly at the speed limit also. Officers would immediately upon arrival at the scene proceed to arrest you, as if you are driving his car after a lengthy pursuit. One of two things would be running through the officers heads, 
A. If they hadn't ID'D him, you would of been arrested for Felony Evasion

B. If they had ID'd him, you would be assisting in his escape be it, that he paid you, or that willingly just hopped in it and drove off.

Based on the fact that there was likely only 2 minutes of lost visual from the time the car pulled into the parking area, and when you pulled out, which the car was immediately identified, a normal civilian, even criminal wouldn't just hop into a car for 200$ even 2000$ of a car that wipes into a parking area, and says "here drive my car to XXXX location and ill give you XXXX$" and then the guy jumps into another car and takes off. This would be sketchy as hell.

With the recent instances of cops getting shot at for simply pulling over a car and issuing a speeding ticket, understand that PDs time on scenes is often reduced for fear of loss of life. (I don't make it through a 2hour shift without getting killed anymore, even if I only do traffic stops). 

I agree more RP could of been completed, but based on the above accounts I feel that what occurred is neither a breech of any level of server rules, or faction policy.

@Nubbsauce I would like to enjoy some of this high level official gang rp sometime in my interactions with criminal organizations, my most recent encounters have been 12 people standing at the bank doing donuts and talking about buying aks and robbing people in-front of cops, this is not "high" level RP. In my opinion a high level criminal organization shouldn't be getting arrested every 15mins, or killing cops every time they get pulled over.
As I said I would really enjoy meeting a official faction that is willing to provide heavy rp with police rather then taking off from a minor speeding ticket in-order to get a pursuit and a shootout.

I do recognize that there are members of these factions that rp very well and I appreciate them when I do manage to get a chance to rp with them. 

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2 minutes ago, Jbacon said:

@Nubbsauce @Andor

I appreciate you guys bringing this discussion forward. I see a few issues with the above comments.

How was this plan formulated, as you clearly stated 

First issue with your plan, the officers had most likely id'd Tom Daniels prior to the swap (he is extremely well known, and is the most arrested person in the city), meaning as soon as they saw 2 cars leave the same area, 1 driving the speed limit and one the opposite direction, assumingly at the speed limit also. Officers would immediately upon arrival at the scene proceed to arrest you, as if you are driving his car after a lengthy pursuit. One of two things would be running through the officers heads, 
A. If they hadn't ID'D him, you would of been arrested for Felony Evasion

B. If they had ID'd him, you would be assisting in his escape be it, that he paid you, or that willingly just hopped in it and drove off.

Based on the fact that there was likely only 2 minutes of lost visual from the time the car pulled into the parking area, and when you pulled out, which the car was immediately identified, a normal civilian, even criminal wouldn't just hop into a car for 200$ even 2000$ of a car that wipes into a parking area, and says "here drive my car to XXXX location and ill give you XXXX$" and then the guy jumps into another car and takes off. This would be sketchy as hell.

With the recent instances of cops getting shot at for simply pulling over a car and issuing a speeding ticket, understand that PDs time on scenes is often reduced for fear of loss of life. (I don't make it through a 2hour shift without getting killed anymore, even if I only do traffic stops). 

I agree more RP could of been completed, but based on the above accounts I feel that what occurred is neither a breech of any level of server rules, or faction policy.

@Nubbsauce I would like to enjoy some of this high level official gang rp sometime in my interactions with criminal organizations, my most recent encounters have been 12 people standing at the bank doing donuts and talking about buying aks and robbing people in-front of cops, this is not "high" level RP. In my opinion a high level criminal organization shouldn't be getting arrested every 15mins, or killing cops every time they get pulled over.
As I said I would really enjoy meeting a official faction that is willing to provide heavy rp with police rather then taking off from a minor speeding ticket in-order to get a pursuit and a shootout.

I do recognize that there are members of these factions that rp very well and I appreciate them when I do manage to get a chance to rp with them. 

Few things to clear up, yes tom was probably ID'ed. 
There was no car next to toms car speeding off, Tom was hiding and actually crashed soon after I drove off. 
Secondly if someone offers me a whole lot of cash to do something I know its sketch but hey money. 
Because other people shoot at cops doesnt mean they have to punish me for it. I know it changes the attitude from the PD's perspective but that doesnt excuse the lying, decieving and  making up charges.

pd IS and always will be the biggest player on this server it seems. But that also means they have to lead by example, yes that does suck but it is the way it is

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I am sorry you had a bad experience andor, you know how I am with my RP and how I like my lengthy RP sessions. What charges were placed? and what lies and deceit occurred, if you don't mind can you DM me so we can continue this conversation.

PD is also increasing its RP standard yet again so hopefully we can reduce the number of occurrences where other players feel their rp was short changed. Please also everyone reading this remember that PD is also players and the majority of us want RP, not shoot outs. Provide PD with good rp and you will get it back, I always try to start my interactions on a heavy rp level and then as I determine the level of rp they want in their scene my rp will come down to match that.

If the only rp I get from a player after a shoot out is /do im dead.... then obviously im not going to spend 45mins rping with that person if they are not willing to rp with me. So its a two way street.

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1 hour ago, Andor said:

Pmed you on discord

Dont assist in a crime then you wont have to do the time, Dcc should really change their rules and if Taxi management gets caught doin shit off duty they should be suspended or their contract terminated.  

I was one of the officer that was in pursuit and i nearly caught tom daniels a few times until i code o.

We allways get the shit when some one gets caught it mainly it goes in to /b argument, It didnt with you andor which is a good thing, I can name a few gangs and people who do that or either speed off over a ticket or a chat instead of complying, Some times officers gets that much shit so we give it back as much as we get. " I got tol the other day to kill my self with bleach which was ignored and i'm not petty so not gonna report it.""

Edited by DDevastatedTV

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10 minutes ago, DDevastatedTV said:

Dont assist in a crime then you wont have to do the time, Dcc should really change their rules and if Taxi management gets caught doin shit off duty they should be suspended or their contract terminated.  

I was one of the officer that was in pursuit and i nearly caught tom daniels a few times until i code o.

We allways get the shit when some one gets caught it mainly it goes in to /b argument, It didnt with you andor which is a good thing, I can name a few gangs and people who do that or either speed off over a ticket or a chat instead of complying, Some times officers gets that much shit so we give it back as much as we get. " I got tol the other day to kill my self with bleach which was ignored and i'm not petty so not gonna report it.""

 1 I wasnt on a DCC char, so that doesnt hold up.
2. I got charged with felony evading which I didnt
3. Im upset because there was no RP involved at all
4. I got lied to by the arresting officer that Tom Daniels was arrested so my "info" didnt matter
5. When I said Tom Daniels would prove my innocense it was ignored since he wasnt being transported to the DOC.


Just because you get shit from a other person doesnt make it right to take it out on me, which I think was what happened. Atleast my perspective made be believe that. 
I am not upset that I got caught and send to jail for I thought it was a big chance I was going to be arrested. I am upset in how the entire situation was handled and in my personal
opinion it was handled poorly.

So please mister jimmy, can you comment on these things please

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9 minutes ago, Andor said:

 1 I wasnt on a DCC char, so that doesnt hold up.
2. I got charged with felony evading which I didnt
3. Im upset because there was no RP involved at all
4. I got lied to by the arresting officer that Tom Daniels was arrested so my "info" didnt matter
5. When I said Tom Daniels would prove my innocense it was ignored since he wasnt being transported to the DOC.


Just because you get shit from a other person doesnt make it right to take it out on me, which I think was what happened. Atleast my perspective made be believe that. 
I am not upset that I got caught and send to jail for I thought it was a big chance I was going to be arrested. I am upset in how the entire situation was handled and in my personal
opinion it was handled poorly.

So please mister jimmy, can you comment on these things please

I dont think i was around when you got arrested, But you did assist with the felony evasion.

We do try our best to rp with people who want to rp with us, I might of been a bit harsh in my last post but you have to see from our side aswell as yours, We get DMed, Vdmed and ither shit just for chasing some one,  I know that taxi drivers get robbed and kidnapped. I do try and rp with every one and if they are new i do give them a chance and more time to role play back, And if they are stuck i even help them out in /b to get them better Role Playing.

The officer who charged you might of a bad day like every one else does. But with the new stuff coming to pd like @Jbacon said about our rp standards it might become better for everyone.

Again all i can do is apologise if i was their but i do know i code o travelling to the scene.

Ps. SORRY ABOUT MY GRAMMAR ON MOBILE

 

Edited by DDevastatedTV

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1 minute ago, DDevastatedTV said:

I dont think i was around when you got arrested, But you did assist with the felony evasion.

We do try our best to rp with people who want to rp with us, I might if been a bit harsh in my last post but you have to see from our side aswell as yours, We get DMed, Vdmed and ither shit just for chasing some one,  I know that taxi drivers get robbed and kidnapped. I do try and rp with every one snd if they are new i do give them a chance and more time to role play back, And if they are stuck i even help them out in /b to get them better Role Playing.

The officer who charged you might of a bad day like every one else does. But with the new stuff coming to pd like @Jbacon said about our rp standards it might become better for everyone.

Again all i can do is apologise if i was their but i do know i code o travelling to the scene.

 

 

Again im am NOT disputing that I was assisting in felony evading, I never did. What I do dispute is why I was charged with BOTH assisting felony evading AND felony evading. 
So thats my question. 
Secondly did I DM, VDM or go to /b in this situation? Did I attempt to RP a situation where a wanted criminal was on the run and I had information to give out. Yes none of that was included in the RP and totally ignored.
I am again saying I WAS NOT ON ANDOR ROOTMAN, DCC HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS. 
Having a bad day doesnt excuse making up charges and lying.

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5 minutes ago, Andor said:

Again im am NOT disputing that I was assisting in felony evading, I never did. What I do dispute is why I was charged with BOTH assisting felony evading AND felony evading. 
So thats my question. 
Secondly did I DM, VDM or go to /b in this situation? Did I attempt to RP a situation where a wanted criminal was on the run and I had information to give out. Yes none of that was included in the RP and totally ignored.
I am again saying I WAS NOT ON ANDOR ROOTMAN, DCC HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS. 
Having a bad day doesnt excuse making up charges and lying.

I dont know why the officer who arrested you didnt ask you for the info you had as evidence to help with the charges that got placed. You would of still got arrested but shorter sentence also that depends on if their was a detective on duty aswell 

You need to go to mission row and have a word with the command their or try and get the badge number from thr officer who arrested you and make an IA report if you wish. I dont know why the officer involved roleplayed poorly towards you or anything like that i cant judge as i wasnt their at the beginning of the scene like i said i code 0

 

 

(Im not saying anything about Andor or DCC or you tried anything in the last post, All i was saying think about what we get daily)

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10 minutes ago, DDevastatedTV said:

I dont know why the officer who arrested you didnt ask you for the info you had as evidence to help with the charges that got placed. You would of still got arrested but shorter sentence also that depends on if their was a detective on duty aswell 

You need to go to mission row and have a word with the command their or try and get the badge number from thr officer who arrested you and make an IA report if you wish. I dont know why the officer involved roleplayed poorly towards you or anything like that i cant judge as i wasnt their at the beginning of the scene like i said i code 0

(Im not saying anything about Andor or DCC or you tried anything in the last post, All i was saying think about what we get daily)

Mhmm, so bad day for the PD means standards go out the window for people?

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19 minutes ago, Andor said:

Mhmm, so bad day for the PD means standards go out the window for people?

If you have a problem do what i said, Get the officers badge number and make an IA report instead of publishing it for every one to see.

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1 hour ago, Andor said:

Mhmm, so bad day for the PD means standards go out the window for people?

It's also not poor RP for PD to lie. His character, could be a shit cop. Whoever it is! Lying ICly isn't poor RP or fail RP etc. We get lied to by everyone all the time.

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4 hours ago, Jbacon said:

@Nubbsauce @Andor

I appreciate you guys bringing this discussion forward. I see a few issues with the above comments.

How was this plan formulated, as you clearly stated 

First issue with your plan, the officers had most likely id'd Tom Daniels prior to the swap (he is extremely well known, and is the most arrested person in the city), meaning as soon as they saw 2 cars leave the same area, 1 driving the speed limit and one the opposite direction, assumingly at the speed limit also. Officers would immediately upon arrival at the scene proceed to arrest you, as if you are driving his car after a lengthy pursuit. One of two things would be running through the officers heads, 
A. If they hadn't ID'D him, you would of been arrested for Felony Evasion

B. If they had ID'd him, you would be assisting in his escape be it, that he paid you, or that willingly just hopped in it and drove off.

Based on the fact that there was likely only 2 minutes of lost visual from the time the car pulled into the parking area, and when you pulled out, which the car was immediately identified, a normal civilian, even criminal wouldn't just hop into a car for 200$ even 2000$ of a car that wipes into a parking area, and says "here drive my car to XXXX location and ill give you XXXX$" and then the guy jumps into another car and takes off. This would be sketchy as hell.

With the recent instances of cops getting shot at for simply pulling over a car and issuing a speeding ticket, understand that PDs time on scenes is often reduced for fear of loss of life. (I don't make it through a 2hour shift without getting killed anymore, even if I only do traffic stops). 

I agree more RP could of been completed, but based on the above accounts I feel that what occurred is neither a breech of any level of server rules, or faction policy.

@Nubbsauce I would like to enjoy some of this high level official gang rp sometime in my interactions with criminal organizations, my most recent encounters have been 12 people standing at the bank doing donuts and talking about buying aks and robbing people in-front of cops, this is not "high" level RP. In my opinion a high level criminal organization shouldn't be getting arrested every 15mins, or killing cops every time they get pulled over.
As I said I would really enjoy meeting a official faction that is willing to provide heavy rp with police rather then taking off from a minor speeding ticket in-order to get a pursuit and a shootout.

I do recognize that there are members of these factions that rp very well and I appreciate them when I do manage to get a chance to rp with them. 

Zeta doesn't represent all Official Gang Factions. I personally dislike how they just sit at the bank in a NCZ and talk shit and fuck about. There are other gangs out there that actually RP licking their wounds from a shoot out, or actually create their own RP for within the gang.

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51 minutes ago, Denni said:

It's also not poor RP for PD to lie. His character, could be a shit cop. Whoever it is! Lying ICly isn't poor RP or fail RP etc. We get lied to by everyone all the time.

I think you miss the point. The cops on scene were dismissive of rp. I believe him lying and how he spoke to me strengthens my believe that's the case, to not having to interact with my attempts to rp. 

You don't have to engage in rp about I formation about a wanted criminal if the criminal is in custody. Call me cynical but the entire vibe of the cops I interacted with was they wanted to make me pay for letting Tom escape and went out of their way to work against anything I brought up 

 

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