Court/Judges

[OBESE]

Hello!

Not been long here and been trying to not put myself on the police radar with my activities and I would say I have been doing a good job except the only two times when I have been arrested and went to jail. With this little experience I have already learned that the whole justice system is very flaw and does not give a chance to do anything in the situation. Its almost like if the police decided to arrest you, there is nothing you can do about it. Sure you can run and resist the arrest, but that does not go with my roleplay. So all I have been able to do is to agree with everything that police is asking, like searching and arresting, while no chance to actually protest or try to get away with a crime due to lack of evidence, false arrest, false charges and stuff like that. Sure there is Internal Affairs report, but in a rp scenario that is done after you have served your time. Also the Internal Affairs report requires evidence from you to prove that you were treated wrong, but doing everything ICly, let's be honest, not many situations will give you a chance to have any IC evidence. And most likely without showing no evidence your report will be swept under a rug, when it should be other way around, the police should show evidence of you being guilty. The way that police is handling most of the situations where I have been part of is based on anonymous tip or I would say - total MG. 

So I suggest introducing court/judge to the process.

It is very important because as someone recently said - the way the police is acting on the server is not as a police, but more like a gang with legal rights. Sadly I have to agree. For example, technically if my rights are not read to me then nothing I've said can be used against me. Just today I was arrested just for being next to Ace Liquor for just being on the street. No chance to rp that I am not making drugs, it was straight assumed that I was there to make drugs which is a total MG. Then my vehicle was locked-picked by a police officer without any search warrant and reason to even check that specific vehicle. Parking near a "known" drug lab is not against the law.

I have spent two sentences without a chance to appeal the sentence or deny the charges, because after the police have locked their view on you it is straight to the moon with no stops. I can bet that there are a lot of people who could possibly rp their situations way better than it has been and had some ridiculous arrests. Like my first arrest where I was robbed and after defending myself and shooting one of the robbers, I got arrested for "armed robbery" and the actual robber was released free. I had no way to defend myself and was locked away for 56months which in rp is nonsense.

The way I see it to work(option):

• Have an appointed Judges who can do case hearings and sentence.
• When a judge is online people can show up for their case hearings.
• Two levels of arrests - 1. Can pay specific amount of bail and come to hearing on your own. 2. Stays locked until a hearing and the time spent in waiting is removed from the sentence.
• If the person released on bail does not show up to their hearings within specific time, they are considered "on the run" and have APB and BOLO put on them and their vehicles.

The system is not hard to implement and would be just part of the Police Department. Such system would make detective work way more interesting in arresting high rank figures based on evidence. Would make the arrests more realistic based on the evidence available therefore bring sense into the rp of busting someone instead of simply metagaming and abusing their powers as police.

TL:DR
Im suggesting to add Judges/Court to the server as part of justice system to make the rp experience more realistic and give chance to everyone to defend themselves and execute the rights that are being read at the arrest and rights as a person who is not guilty until the guilt is proven.

Edited January 24, 2019 by OBESE

[Xoza]

While it's a good idea and often requested as well as would build RP more into justice, I just don't see the resources for it. Los Santos is seen as a 'police state' LSPD already has investigators and you can always /report for a mod to represent you or file an IA report. If there's sufficient evidence, you're charged, if you were charged incorrectly, you can use your prison time to file any reports. If the charge was inaccurate, you should be able to get a return for time lost.

[Salvador Rivera]

+1 SUPPORT

[Denni]

Great idea in practise. Been suggested many times. Will probably appear on the server in the future tbh... 

[Parky]

I have to agree on this one.

Court systems though, they'd require a fair bit of resources and I don't see many people being willing to do that job on the server.

I'd like at the very least some sort of interrogation if it does get hairy. As you said, often whenever the police decide on something, it's the word of god. There's no defending yourself. Although yeah, it'd be nice if this could be treated IC and the officer(s) involved could be reported for serious misconduct and be given a reprimand or perhaps even suspension or leave, but nobody believes anybody. Nothing bad the cops do ever gets noticed, because everybody automatically assumes "liar", or they seemingly can't be bothered. And then there's no notion for cops to improve their behaviour. They *know* they can get away with it. This is why it's no longer an internal, IC issue; it's OOC now. I hope we can all respect that and stop sweeping this under the rug (for instance with player reports), at least until the problem is fixed.

 

We have to ask ourselves though, *why* is the current situation as it is? Why do the cops behave this way? For a predominantly RP-focused server, the cops seem to be treating it as a game of "cops 'n' robbers". Why? I've seen good players that are cops succumb to this attitude too. Great roleplayers being turned to, essentially, shooters. I think there's an internal problem that needs to be addressed. I refuse to believe that the officers are acting like an organised 'gang' of their own will.

[Denni]

33 minutes ago, Parky said:

I have to agree on this one.

Court systems though, they'd require a fair bit of resources and I don't see many people being willing to do that job on the server.

I'd like at the very least some sort of interrogation if it does get hairy. As you said, often whenever the police decide on something, it's the word of god. There's no defending yourself. Although yeah, it'd be nice if this could be treated IC and the officer(s) involved could be reported for serious misconduct and be given a reprimand or perhaps even suspension or leave, but nobody believes anybody. Nothing bad the cops do ever gets noticed, because everybody automatically assumes "liar", or they seemingly can't be bothered. And then there's no notion for cops to improve their behaviour. They *know* they can get away with it. This is why it's no longer an internal, IC issue; it's OOC now. I hope we can all respect that and stop sweeping this under the rug (for instance with player reports), at least until the problem is fixed.

 

We have to ask ourselves though, *why* is the current situation as it is? Why do the cops behave this way? For a predominantly RP-focused server, the cops seem to be treating it as a game of "cops 'n' robbers". Why? I've seen good players that are cops succumb to this attitude too. Great roleplayers being turned to, essentially, shooters. I think there's an internal problem that needs to be addressed. I refuse to believe that the officers are acting like an organised 'gang' of their own will.

There have been quite a few IA reports from civilians to police resulting in suspensions or worse. Where you mention the police turn in to shooters could be the same for criminals... They get pulled over for speeding yet get out and start shooting... I mean... No more needs to be said there.

[Parky]

2 hours ago, Denni said:

There have been quite a few IA reports from civilians to police resulting in suspensions or worse. Where you mention the police turn in to shooters could be the same for criminals... They get pulled over for speeding yet get out and start shooting... I mean... No more needs to be said there.

Completely agree with you there Denni. There's a good few people that put gains before RP. It's up to us to make sure we respect RP a little more as a community.

The playerbase is quite hostile in that sense. Both police and criminals can be quite... shooty, as you say. Perhaps both sides aren't trusting of the other to properly roleplay, hence the hostility. Perhaps we can have a community meeting and 'cleanup' just to sort any bad feelings between parties so we can all enjoy our time a little more.

[TheCanadian]

16 hours ago, OBESE said:

The way I see it to work(option):

• Have an appointed Judges who can do case hearings and sentence.
•  When a judge is online people can show up for their case hearings.
• Two levels of arrests - 1. Can pay specific amount of bail and come to hearing on your own. 2. Stays locked until a hearing and the time spent in waiting is removed from the sentence.
• If the person released on bail does not show up to their hearings within specific time, they are considered "on the run" and have APB and BOLO put on them and their vehicles.

I think this could be really really interesting to give a try and see if it works for a week or two, then decide if they want to keep it into the server. I haven't made up my mind on what would be better though, single judge or full jurry. In practice the judge would probably be better and more reliable because i dont think jurry would function well unless for example... those who get called for jurry duty get a wellfare cheque of for example.... 5k, something that makes them want to pay attention to the trial, and be invested because they have that added financial incentive.

Also though, to be fair to both sides, i am a zetas member. I am fully aware that if there is a full on jury system most if not all zetas irish and clowns would not be convicted, or have a never ending mistrial/hung jury due to the number they take up on the server and the likeliness at least one will be on any given jury. So i think just a single judge would potentially be the best option.

[OBESE]

27 minutes ago, TheCanadian said:

I think this could be really really interesting to give a try and see if it works for a week or two, then decide if they want to keep it into the server. I haven't made up my mind on what would be better though, single judge or full jurry. In practice the judge would probably be better and more reliable because i dont think jurry would function well unless for example... those who get called for jurry duty get a wellfare cheque of for example.... 5k, something that makes them want to pay attention to the trial, and be invested because they have that added financial incentive.

Also though, to be fair to both sides, i am a zetas member. I am fully aware that if there is a full on jury system most if not all zetas irish and clowns would not be convicted, or have a never ending mistrial/hung jury due to the number they take up on the server and the likeliness at least one will be on any given jury. So i think just a single judge would potentially be the best option.

I would think that the Judge, most likely, would be an Admin or Moderator, someone already trusted with important tasks and sort of "judge" duties in other disputes(reports).

[Randul]

I would love for a system like this to implemented however, you would need either players to always be truthful and honest during a /do (which some players police / criminals may lie to further their cause) or you would need to able to gather detailed evidence via server admins. 

What evidence would you expect the prosecutor (typically the police) to have for a successful verdict?

• CCTV
• DNA 
• Ballistics report, if you shot your weapon
• Sworn testament from a civilian not convicted of a felony
• Call logging

 

Quote

Like my first arrest where I was robbed and after defending myself and shooting one of the robbers, I got arrested for "armed robbery" and the actual robber was released free. I had no way to defend myself and was locked away for 56months which in rp is nonsense.

What evidence if given the opportunity would you provide, or hope the police provided to stop you going to jail? Surely it would your word against the man dead with gun shots from your weapon? 

As I said I'd love for this to be implemented, but I'm concerned with either the player-base trying to gain the system via lying or that it would be implemented without the correct tools for it to be used correctly. 

[MusketDeezNuts]

Already being worked on.

Archived.