Speeding Camera Suggestion

[Nubbsauce]

Since they are going to be added, the only thing I can do is offer suggestions on how I think they can be properly implemented without being stupidly broken:

I don't think the player should be auto charged when the car exceeds 130 or 70 automatically, no matter where they are. That is severely broken and Passive Powergaming Via PD if players got automatically ticketed by their speedometer and not an actual speed camera. Even still... this brings up the issue of: "What if my car is stolen and the criminal speeds?" This could EASILY be abused by criminals by just constantly running through the speed cams in the stolen car, racking up AUTOMATED tickets for the other player, even though the player had NO control over that (Powergaming).

1. Place them at intersections around Government Buildings, and NCZs. (Bank, TeqLaLa, Gas Stations, Finance Buildings, Weazel, DCC, PD, MD. The Water station on the freeway North of the racetrack, ETC.) That way they would be Designated Speed Camera Spots and would send a notification to the PD if someone passed it going over 70/130kmh. 

2. The speed Cameras shouldn't automatically ticket people based on the car, (Per the reason above), but instead alert the PD. Kind of like the Store Alarms. That way PD could set up a Speed Trap, and correctly radar, and ticket players by doing a Two-Point Speed Trap: One cop Radars the Car, the other Cop(s) ahead setup a roadblock at a choke point to stop the vehicle and/or traffic, to correctly catch, ID, and ticket the speeding player. (aka actual tactics).

3. Make a Mobile Speed Camera that PD can Deploy on the side of the road, Just how they can deploy road blocks. Those speed cameras would radar the speed of the players passing, alert the Officer who placed it down, with the Make/Model and License Plate of the Vehicle, giving them the ability to set up down the road and get ready to sting the suspect.

4. Once the cameras detect the same make/model and license plate of a vehicle violating the speed multiple times(IE: 5 times), they would put out an automatic BOLO (ATL) on the vehicle with the number of times they have sped through a speeding camera (BUT NOT TICKETING THEM). A way to kinda of keep track of that via the MDC would be to have the vehicles themselves have a record on them, rather than it reading the players record. 

I don't think Automatic Ticketing Speed Cameras would be a good addition to the server, as it is Passive Powergaming, could be abused by criminals, doesn't create RP, and could have a negative response from the players (which bring life to the server). I think the suggestions above would be a more proper way of implementing the speed cameras, keeping the player base happy, AND creating RP (Which is why we are here in the first place).

 

Thank you for taking the time to read this.

Edited January 3, 2019 by Nubbsauce

[Taedolf]

It's tough to determine what is actually meant by speeding cameras and what their main purpose will be.  If it's to attempt to force people to drive with more valuation on their life, I'm all for auto-charging someone above a certain speed to where it would be deemed non-rp.  I do believe criminals knowingly abusing an auto-charging mechanic would be punished in the rules, just like driving vehicles into water is punished.

Static cameras dropping people speeding in chat would.. well, do you want PD members to be able to text chat with anyone ever again?  Because the amount of people during peak times that would be passing these locations would make that pretty difficult.  The call volume would be so ridiculous that even a list through a command of the past 5 minutes would be atrocious to attempt to decipher.

I like the mobile camera idea, I already use the 2 person speed trap you described regularly now.  Traffic enforcement division represent \m/

A nice compromise here that minimizes tickets to those non-deserving of them could be something as simple as tying in the car alarm we all receive notifications of when our car is being lockpicked to a system that automatically reports a vehicle as stolen.  Said vehicle would then be un-marked stolen whenever the vehicle is either: sat in by someone with keys or the car is locked again.  While marked stolen, a vehicle would not receive fines but a note of the amount of tickets accrued while being marked stolen within a time period. That would make it relatively easy to determine if someone is abusing this function to dodge tickets and drive like a maniac without recompense (3 days perhaps?)

The issue with putting this entirely on the LSPD to deal with is the unrealistic ratio of people driving like maniacs.  This is mainly due to us not having NPCs putt-putting around in vehicles forcing you to drive slower unless you want to wreck the hell out of your car.  We simply don't have the resources to enforce roleplay driving on people when everyone is doing it, and they know this.  So they blaze down eclipse going 180kmph without a care in the world.  Basically, if we want realistic valuation of life when operating a vehicle, something needs to change.  Whether that's a script thing or rules thing doesn't really matter to me, personally.

Edited January 3, 2019 by Taedolf

[Nubbsauce]

3 minutes ago, Taedolf said:

It's tough to determine what is actually meant by speeding cameras and what their main purpose will be.  If it's to attempt to force people to drive with more valuation on their life, I'm all for auto-charging someone above a certain speed to where it would be deemed non-rp.  I do believe criminals knowingly abusing an auto-charging mechanic would be punished in the rules, just like driving vehicles into water is punished.

Static cameras dropping people speeding in chat would.. well, do you want PD members to be able to text chat with anyone ever again?  Because the amount of people during peak times that would be passing these locations would make that pretty difficult.  The call volume would be so ridiculous that even a list through a command of the past 5 minutes would be atrocious to attempt to decipher.

I like the mobile camera idea, I already use the 2 person speed trap you described regularly now.  Traffic enforcement division represent \m/

A nice compromise here that minimizes tickets to those non-deserving of them could be something as simple as tying in the car alarm we all receive notifications of when our car is being lockpicked to a system that automatically reports a vehicle as stolen.  Said vehicle would then be un-marked stolen whenever the vehicle is either: sat in by someone with keys or the car is locked again.  While marked stolen, a vehicle would not receive fines but a note of the amount of tickets accrued while being marked stolen within a time period. That would make it relatively easy to determine if someone is abusing this function to dodge tickets and drive like a maniac without recompense (3 days perhaps?)

Well it wouldn't go into the PD chat, it would to into their MDC. Something new could be coded to have like "Active BOLOs" or "Speed Camera Report" And then they would see a list of the Make/Models and License Plates of the vehicles who were speeding through the cameras. It would keep track of the JUST the vehicle and how many times it was caught speeding by a camera. For Example, once they opened that in their MDC, it would show like:

#1 BallerLE / L156K35 / 20 Violations

#2 Comet Retro / K362D35 / 3 Violations

etc.

That way, cops could prioritize a sting on a vehicle who has like 20+ Speeding Violations Detected on it or something. 

[Taedolf]

2 minutes ago, Nubbsauce said:

Well it wouldn't go into the PD chat, it would to into their MDC. Something new could be coded to have like "Active BOLOs" or "Speed Camera Report" And then they would see a list of the Make/Models and License Plates of the vehicles who were speeding through the cameras. It would keep track of the JUST the vehicle and how many times it was caught speeding by a camera. For Example, once they opened that in their MDC, it would show like:

#1 BallerLE / L156K35 / 20 Violations

 #2 Comet Retro / K362D35 / 3 Violations

 etc.

That way, cops could prioritize a sting on a vehicle who has like 20+ Speeding Violations Detected on it or something. 

Suppose I'm just having a hard time seeing how that would do anything at all, considering all they would have to say is "oh my car was stolen."  Presuming we could track them down in the first place.  BOLOs occasionally bear fruit, but not very often.  Even then, back to the first point, if we track them down..  Provided they were wearing a mask, which everyone does most of the time, we would have nothing to ticket them with or arrest them on.  Would make the entire thing rather pointless, no?

[Nubbsauce]

Well thats why the cameras should be placed in specific locations Known to the PD only. That way THEY can narrow it down. Cause obv if there are more violations on the car, they are most likely taking a route that has more cameras.

One way to get around the "Oh it was stolen" card is to say "Well why didn't you report it stolen then?". If they don't have a report for a stolen vehicle, then they take full responsibility of the car and its violations. 

[Taedolf]

2 minutes ago, Nubbsauce said:

Well thats why the cameras should be placed in specific locations Known to the PD only. That way THEY can narrow it down. Cause obv if there are more violations on the car, they are most likely taking a route that has more cameras.

One way to get around the "Oh it was stolen" card is to say "Well why didn't you report it stolen then?". If they don't have a report for a stolen vehicle, then they take full responsibility of the car and its violations. 

I was going under the presumption that your no auto-ticketing meant you wanted the PD to prove they were driving the vehicle and that it wasn't stolen.  If it's simply a case of "didn't report" we'll just be ticketing as they come in and might as well throw on auto-ticket and a theft system like what I described.  That'd be a scary amount of tickets to make by hand.

[Denni]

2 hours ago, Nubbsauce said:

Since they are going to be added, the only thing I can do is offer suggestions on how I think they can be properly implemented without being stupidly broken:

I don't think the player should be auto charged when the car exceeds 130 or 70 automatically, no matter where they are. That is severely broken and Passive Powergaming Via PD if players got automatically ticketed by their speedometer and not an actual speed camera. Even still... this brings up the issue of: "What if my car is stolen and the criminal speeds?" This could EASILY be abused by criminals by just constantly running through the speed cams in the stolen car, racking up AUTOMATED tickets for the other player, even though the player had NO control over that (Powergaming).

1. Place them at intersections around Government Buildings, and NCZs. (Bank, TeqLaLa, Gas Stations, Finance Buildings, Weazel, DCC, PD, MD. The Water station on the freeway North of the racetrack, ETC.) That way they would be Designated Speed Camera Spots and would send a notification to the PD if someone passed it going over 70/130kmh. 

2. The speed Cameras shouldn't automatically ticket people based on the car, (Per the reason above), but instead alert the PD. Kind of like the Store Alarms. That way PD could set up a Speed Trap, and correctly radar, and ticket players by doing a Two-Point Speed Trap: One cop Radars the Car, the other Cop(s) ahead setup a roadblock at a choke point to stop the vehicle and/or traffic, to correctly catch, ID, and ticket the speeding player. (aka actual tactics).

3. Make a Mobile Speed Camera that PD can Deploy on the side of the road, Just how they can deploy road blocks. Those speed cameras would radar the speed of the players passing, alert the Officer who placed it down, with the Make/Model and License Plate of the Vehicle, giving them the ability to set up down the road and get ready to sting the suspect.

4. Once the cameras detect the same make/model and license plate of a vehicle violating the speed multiple times(IE: 5 times), they would put out an automatic BOLO (ATL) on the vehicle with the number of times they have sped through a speeding camera (BUT NOT TICKETING THEM). A way to kinda of keep track of that via the MDC would be to have the vehicles themselves have a record on them, rather than it reading the players record. 

I don't think Automatic Ticketing Speed Cameras would be a good addition to the server, as it is Passive Powergaming, could be abused by criminals, doesn't create RP, and could have a negative response from the players (which bring life to the server). I think the suggestions above would be a more proper way of implementing the speed cameras, keeping the player base happy, AND creating RP (Which is why we are here in the first place).

 

Thank you for taking the time to read this.

1. PD doesn't need another 300 notifications per minute.

2. See #1.

3. +1

4. +1

[Nubbsauce]

 

1 minute ago, Denni said:

1. PD doesn't need another 300 notifications per minute.

2. See #1.

3. +1

4. +1

Did you even read my response. That was already addressed in a reply

[Denni]

6 minutes ago, Nubbsauce said:

 

Did you even read my response. That was already addressed in a reply

I'm just giving you my opinion. That's why you post in the suggestions. 

[Vasquez]

I like your suggestion regarding violations, and I want to build on that.
I believe that the fines should be automatically added to the vehicle, as your suggestion, would most likely do little to nothing regarding the whole speeding issue at hand.
But I do believe that when a vehicle have received X amount of tickets ( totaling over 25k ) that a bolo should automatically be added to some kind of police computer or command
Officer would then be able to acces the bolo both in game ( showing all current ig bolo's) and over the panel, showing a complet list of bolos and whos the owner of the car etc. ( showing both online and offline bolos )

Direct respond;
1) I agree to have them set at the NCZ, but I also think some should be placed around the city, such as the southbound road at bank where people always go flying over the top.
2) mentioned earlier
3)A Mobile speed device showing the model and the speed would def. be nice for the police. Maybe a hand held scanner to make it more practical?
4)I spoke about this earlier, but if the devicer also showed if a car had a bolo on it, that would be neat.

Edited January 4, 2019 by Vasquez

[LiveTrash]

I think we need to look at this less in the way of "How do we implement this to avoid it being powergaming or metagaming" and more of "Let's just implement this to help cut down on the non-rp speeding through the city." Car theft is too much of a problem and is too easily done to properly implement it any other way.

Let's just have it work as simply as this; if you're speeding past a camera your character will get the ticket, regardless of what car you're driving or whether you're wearing a mask or not.

Honestly, anyone against having it implemented in that way is part of the problem and will be upset that they can't fly through the city streets anymore with little to no risk.

 

My personal suggestion to speed limits is anything over 100 in the city will get you busted by the camera. Anything under that is up to the traffic officers to decide upon. Getting to 100 is fairly easy to do if you happen to hold W for just a bit too long if you're cruising along at 70 or 80 without /cruise on.

Edited January 4, 2019 by LiveTrash

[Xoza]

Linking on behalf of all the great ideas that were already posted.

Cruisers already have a 'radar'. PD isn't going to stand on the side of the road and I don't think a radar trap system will be a great idea as well as it just sets up something else in the world that could be forgotten or take up extra resources. I do believe if people slow down and are more courteous with their driving, it could help clear up desync issues.

I like the idea of some automation implementation. I agree tickets shouldn't be automated directly though.

On 1/1/2019 at 8:45 PM, Xoza said:

+1 Yes if implemented in a way that's friendly and not game breaking. PD is undermanned and can't enforce it against these crazy citizens. We have enough medical calls already about people driving crazy and injuring themselves.

Speeds are already reasonable.

• Eclipse Town 70 kph = 43.5 mph, Average US and UK speed in town is 30-35 mph
• Eclipse Outer Town 110 kph = 68.4 mph, Average US and UK seems to be 50-60 mph
• Eclipse Freeway 130 = 80.8 mph, Average US and UK is 70 mph

What about random areas that have traffic speed cameras built in, every time a ticket is sent, it activates a new zone. If a ticket isn't sent for 1 game hour, then it switches to a new zone. Could be one zone, could be 20 zones, but no one will know until they get a ticket.

 

On 1/2/2019 at 11:51 AM, Xoza said:

If not ticketing the vehicle directly, What about an automated call in to PD with description of vehicle and marker where it was last seen, updated as long as it's in the area where camera's would be.

 

Edited January 4, 2019 by Xoza

[Taedolf]

20 hours ago, LiveTrash said:

I think we need to look at this less in the way of "How do we implement this to avoid it being powergaming or metagaming" and more of "Let's just implement this to help cut down on the non-rp speeding through the city." Car theft is too much of a problem and is too easily done to properly implement it any other way.

Let's just have it work as simply as this; if you're speeding past a camera your character will get the ticket, regardless of what car you're driving or whether you're wearing a mask or not.

Honestly, anyone against having it implemented in that way is part of the problem and will be upset that they can't fly through the city streets anymore with little to no risk.

 

My personal suggestion to speed limits is anything over 100 in the city will get you busted by the camera. Anything under that is up to the traffic officers to decide upon. Getting to 100 is fairly easy to do if you happen to hold W for just a bit too long if you're cruising along at 70 or 80 without /cruise on.

This.

 

If you need to be convinced that LSPD needs script help to cut down on this issue, go stand on eclipse boulevard and count how many vehicles blaze past you at a ridiculous pace within 10 minutes during non-off hours.  Keep in mind most of these vehicles tend to be going over 150 unless we catch them just stopping/starting, so they flee from a stop because that's an arrest.  Next, suggest how we would have the resources to nab a good majority of these and still respond to the high crime call volume.  Keep in mind pursuits last anywhere from 10 minutes to 30 minutes, generally, and occupy a large majority of the resources we have available.

[Nubbsauce]

8 minutes ago, Taedolf said:

This.

 

If you need to be convinced that LSPD needs script help to cut down on this issue, go stand on eclipse boulevard and count how many vehicles blaze past you at a ridiculous pace within 10 minutes during non-off hours.  Keep in mind most of these vehicles tend to be going over 150 unless we catch them just stopping/starting, so they flee from a stop because that's an arrest.  Next, suggest how we would have the resources to nab a good majority of these and still respond to the high crime call volume.  Keep in mind pursuits last anywhere from 10 minutes to 30 minutes, generally, and occupy a large majority of the resources we have available.

Easy, have someone who can offer an Advanced Driving Course to the officers so they can actually catch the criminals. The problem isn't their speed, the problem is the driving ability of the PD. I have seen cops smack into a wall because they didn't break on time OR misjudged the turn. And the criminal gets away cause they lose LOS.

 

And PD has multiple high speed interceptions at their disposal. So speed DEF isn't the reason.

Edited January 4, 2019 by Nubbsauce

[Taedolf]

1 minute ago, Nubbsauce said:

Easy, have someone who can offer an Advanced Driving Course to the officers so they can actually catch the criminals. The problem isn't their speed, the problem is the driving ability of the PD. I have seen cops smack into a wall because they didn't break on time OR misjudged the turn. And the criminal gets away cause they lose LOS.

 

And PD has multiple high speed interceptions at their disposal. So speed DEF isn't the reason.

I'll just go ahead and forgive your ignorance here and break it down.

 

#1: We commonly let a lot of vehicles go or are forced to because of the difficulty of catching up to a vehicle going 180-190 from a dead stop.

#2: I've not been involved in many pursuits where an officer TC resulted in losing the suspect, perhaps around 20%.  Not everyone is great at driving and mistakes happen.  Attempting to keep up to higher performance cars or even equal performance requires a bit of risk taking and sometimes the calculation goes wrong.  PITs fail for anything from desync/ping or user error, sudden turns are made when the primary was expecting it to go a different way, etc.  We offer pursuit training but it largely comes down to experience and it is much easier to evade than it is to catch, as you know what turns you are making before you make them.

#3: High speed units require a unit that is certified be online, which is not a lot, and then return to mission row taking however much time to get back.  Then they need to get the vehicle out and attempt to catch up to the pursuit.  High speed units are not a very effective tool in pursuits because of the response time; keep in mind that an outclassed cruiser will need to keep up with a vehicle they're pursuing until the high speed gets there.  If you're already struggling to the point where you need a high speed and call for it, chances are rather low that it'll get there in time.

#4: Even if we have a high speed respond, they are not permitted to PIT.  Pursuits against comet retros, for example, largely come down to waiting for them to make a mistake and crash or for them to run out of gas.  These would be those 30-40 minute pursuits.  We effectively need to keep a large amount of units on a pursuit due to the gang-centered population of LS.  Being led into an ambush or ambushed once they are apprehended is not uncommon.

 

also, really, "get good" is effectively your argument here?  I'd be impressed if we were on reddit, but we are not.  Even if it came down to PD simply lacking skill, this would not change the amount of people that do it.  This would not change the duration of pursuits drastically.  This would not change the amount of units needed for each pursuit.

[inorigj]

Having the camera send out an alarm like the general store is pointless. Lets say a camera is placed at MD looking up the freeway. I 99% of the time Come down that road going above 210kmh. If it Just told PD the camera was triggered then i would be at bayview before they Even get to the camera from mission row. 

But i agree with that PD should be able to deploy them. And not make them sit in one place so you can Just remember where they are and slow down until you have passed. 

I also agree it shouldnt auto ticket. But copy the plates of the vehicle to the officers MDC. So that the officer can check if it is reported stolen first 

Edited January 5, 2019 by inorigj