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The vehicles we get through /fspawn are not upgraded sadly. That's a script issue we are trying to get fixed. There are currently 3 people in SD that are allowed to use personal vehicles, that's the Sheriff, Undersheriff and Assistant Sheriff. Nobody else can.

SD has a BF400, a Hakuchou and an 811. They are all spawned in through /fspawn and are vehicles that we have had to ICly request from the government and to be granted the funds for them, had to log each and every pursuit in a spreadsheet for I think 3 weeks. They are faction vehicles, supplied by the government to be able to stand a chance against the abundance of super cars and bikes we face on a daily. We've got enough, thanks guys.

Well, here's the thing. It is working. We are continiously seeing good developments in SD due to our efforts. We attract people who want to roleplay realistically. Every academy we hold, we see the same developments. Out of 10 trainees that attend the academy, about 5 will become Deputy Sheriffs. The training process we have is designed to discourage people who are here for quick fun and action and leans towards players who are more dedicated. We see the results, and the community does too. I won't deny there are issues arising from time to time but there are no teething issues, at least with SD. People want to complain about being made to show their ID before being given a reason for a traffic stop? Fine, but that's not an issue. That is a development of the server and the things we deal with. We are restricted as to what we can do and how we are to do it. I understand the cries for more realism but I don't think you guys understand the consequences this would bring for criminal rp. If we go more realistic than we are now, you're getting a forced CK for your murder charges, your vehicle seized and auctioned off, all cops running around with heavy weapons because that's the weaponry we are confronted with on a daily. We'll take your business and houses to pay for your debts. Do you see where this is going? Some of the issues brought up are real issues we are working on, and others are very petty. In SD, we have paid out about 500k in compensation in direct relation to IA reports and have suspended and discharged people based on those reports. The systems are working, we rely on you to report incidents to us. Not the forums, to us directly so we can deal with them. Our discharges and punishments are public, we don't hide anything. https://gov.eclipse-rp.net/viewforum.php?f=937

I don't think that is a good idea. The payment provided is okay considering we do not have the same expenses as you do. We don't pay for our own fuel and weapons while on duty, therefore we spend less. You need to have the potential to earn more than us in order to compensate for this. PD and SD do not need more money. We like to attract people who join us for the roleplay and progression, not the paycheck.

While I don't agree with the original post this topic started with as I believe that's a very petty point, some good points have been made. What we as faction leaders, in my case SD, do is take these on board and see where we can improve the general enjoyment for police roleplay. Reading this topic though makes everything seem bad which it is not. There are issues on a wider level which need to be addressed and the cases I've read here are not things we or PD encourage or allow. I will go as far as say that most of these interactions described in this topic were interactions with lower level members of either department. This is something we work on. I can say this for SD and I am sure PD does the same but we are constantly correcting such behaviour when we see it or are told about it. I take these things seriously, going as far as driving to a known gang and asking their leader if it was true he was arrested for calling one of my deputies an asshole. Neither SD nor PD leadership gloss over these things and we are keen on correcting the issues and making sure they are not repeated. It is true that PD took a bit of a hit when SD first started as quite a few experienced and strict members left to build SD. However, PD has filled most of the positions with equally as good people. The brunt of the issues does not come from the top, they are at the bottom levels. We see this in SD with trainees and ranks DS1 to DS3. We have made periods between promotions longer in order to give more time for the lower levels to adjust and fully understand what we expect in terms of role play. For the most part, this is working. Some cases do still arise however where we see an issue. You can however trust me that we do not allow such things and do not tolerate them. We talk to deputies and we correct ill behaviour. You have to take into account the progression that happens within SD and PD. Our trainees can not go out by themselves for at least 21 days, they are always accompanied by a trainer. We do this to try and prepare them and show them what we expect. Naturally, things that shouldn't happen, still do. But that is an issue that goes across all factions on the server. It is up to us faction leaders to try and mitigate the risks of this happening however. I can't speak for IA as I never had any interactions with IA myself while in PD, but in SD we do usually solve a case within a week, if not two in rare cases. Though I have to say, a lot of IA reports are complete bogus and they take time away from dealing with the actual issues. We have one reported been spammed to us 6 times in short succession, and each time triggering the IA process. That report was a waste of time which could have been allocated to solving actual cases. I know this is something most people do not want to hear, but PD and SD are not and will not unleash the full possibilities and consequences that would be justified in a state with such a high murder and crime rate. From an IC point of view, I have every justification I need to equip every single one of our deputies with an AR and authorize stop and search procedures on anyone wearing a known gang colour. ICly, this would be justified given the crimes, gangs and weaponry we face. But we don't do that. PD and SD, contrary to popular believe, are not looking to win every situation. We would utilize all tools and justifications if we were. You are seeing a PD and SD that are constraining themselves in action and reaction to the crime we face in order to give an enjoyable time in the server. We need criminials and you need the cops, it's simple. SD and PD invest a lot of time every week in tracking what our members do, how much they work, if they log their arrests, duty reports, impounds, training sessions etc. We do what we can to ensure people are doing what they are supposed to do. Every week, supervisors are tasked with tracking everyone in the department, how much time they work, how many reports they write, what qualifications they have, if they do or do not provide training etc. This is done to monitor what is being done. This is something that takes hours of actual RL time, away from playing the game, where we sit and count reports, hours, trainings etc. etc. PD and SD are not just "log in get a gun" type of faction. Currently, it takes someone in SD a minimum of 51 days to be even eligible to apply for a shotgun, that is excluding the actual application and the potential failure of such application. We have strict rules on when heavy weapons can be deployed and who can do so. We recently suspended someone for the misuse of their weapons. You may think oh, what is a suspension going to do but you need to see the whole picture. The progression in PD and SD is something people aim for, they want to climb the ranks. A written warning and a suspension put off any and all promotions by at least 45 days from the date of the suspension. That is a severe hit in their progression and is definitely not something people take lightly within our factions. A lot of good points have been made but I have also seen a lot of accusations and name calling that are nothing short of uproductive and harmful to the process of having an open dialogue. We are open to talk about things, anyone can message me on discord with an issue they have with a member of SD and we will talk about it. People have done that and they can confirm that I'll listen to the problem and try to resolve it. Coming on the forums only helps if it's constructive and to the point. We need to have an open dialogue because honestly, getting pulled over and being asked to identify yourself before you are being told why you are being pulled over is NRP? That's just not true. It's a petty claim. People also severely overestimate what they can or cannot do. I can't remember when I had the last traffic stop which did not involve a bunch of their gang members show up, cricle us and constantly barge in asking what's wrong. Do you realise how NRP that is? Your guy is getting a speeding ticket, you don't show up asking questions getting yourself arrested for obstruction of justice, that is NRP. We deal with a lot of issues on a daily basis that we don't come on here for accusing each and every criminal for. It is important to differentiate between what is good and what is bad. Yesterday I roleplayed a roadside inspection of a vehicle and the driver told me "I better leave because his boys are coming". Is that the kind of RP we are supposed to accept from a criminal point of view? It's not and I understand that these are isolated cases. We need an open dialogue but it has to be constructive and I can assure you that a lot of issues either side has with each other, can be resolved if we do it reasonably and talk about things in a manner that is not aggressive.

Do not even bring this up because this is not an issue SD nor PD have brought about, it is an issue with the development of criminal rp not being supported in a way that would allow for drug labs and chopshops to not be public knowledge, but rather private, faction ran things. We are not at fault for this, you want someone to point fingers at, make a suggestion towards the development of bringing these things away from the way they currently are. You are just angry, for reasons unbeknownst to me. I can't solve your issues.

That was poorly worded, I meant to make a point of saying the Zetas, most notably, are part of the few factions that this does not apply to. My bad Jay

We can apply a lot more realism, but the issue is that most, not all, but most, criminal entities on this server will not like it. Cops don't lose anything, that's as realist as it gets. The government, through the means taxation, pays for any and all equipment used. This is as close to realism as it gets. It is up to you to be smart about not getting caught, not carrying your heavy weapons to show off and only using them when absolutely necesarry, otherwise keeping them stashed away. You cry for realism yet you refuse to have the same argument applied to you. It's the same story every month this kind of thread pops up. Cops are too unrealistic, they should lose things yada yada, but when faced with the reality of how unrealistic the criminal system works, suddenly it's "just a game bro". You can not try and argue for more realism to only be applied to one faction and not the other. Take my weapons and my paycheck when I die, but god forbid I catch you felony evading, that car is getting auctioned off and sold to the highest bidder to pay for those weapons we lost. You own a gun store while you have gun related criminal charges? Wave that good bye, the government sure will appreciate the extra income once it's auctioned off. Point of this being, most of you don't want a fair game, you want a game biased to your playstyle. Most of you want to have the upper hand. Your cry for realism is a disguised cry for a weaker enemy. Most of the factions on this server, not all, notably the Zetas for the most part (Zetas being an example of a faction that is part of the few that do not do this btw), are ran like crap and have only one thing in mind, fucking shit up. Unless you are willing to make sacrifices in return for changes to the other side, you can put your suggestion back into that bin of jealousy they came from.

I can't believe the irony of this. Surely this must be a troll suggestion, right? You are here to suggest the PD remove those barriers because they are NON-RP, as in real life you could smash through them. Fair enough, IRL you could. And to prove a point, you give us a video of you driving a million dollar+ supercar to conduct your criminal business in. I applaud your sense of humor. How can you come here and make suggestion after suggestion to regulate the PD and make it more realistic, while you and your whole gang drive multi-million dollar supercars as your daily drivers? How broken of a reality do you live in where the current PD is considered NON-RP, and your gang of murderers in supercars is realistic? Before you come here and complain about anything to do with PD and realism, lose the supercars and roleplay a realistic criminal, not one that daily drives million dollar supercars with no regards to value. You can't have one side regulated and modeled after real life and then go out with your buddies to recreate a 5-year-olds lucid dreams.

So basically you're all saying the PD is doing a great job and has developed into a stronger, more organized, better trained and smarter faction than all the criminal factions. Well, I'm sure the PD appreciates those kind words! lol

I'm sorry but how is this even an argument? The PD has well over 100 members, a fraction of which are active SWAT members. I'm not sure why you would assume that there needs to be a limit on members. You don't see anyone in PD arguing there's too many zeta members or any other faction. In fact, you don't see very many PD members complaining about gangs at all. Just because they're more organized and better trained, they shouldn't be nerfed....

That's not true though. You can down SWAT operatives without having to have 5 people empty clips into them. Naturally, a SWAT Team is better equipped in terms of protection compared to a criminal, but training, organization and a plan go a lot further than just armor itself. I'd argue that if you give criminals the same armor as SWAT and they'd have a fight, SWAT would come out on top as often as now. You can't script or equip skill and training.

You are ranting about a 5% chance of your illegal shipment being seized. Are you aware of that? The system used to order these shipments is all online, and by definition and real-life examples, these illegal market places are monitored by the police and lead to arrests and seizures. Lose the mindset that you have to win in every situation and need a reward simply for roleplaying. Maybe if you would see past this petty point you're making of how unfair it is that a tiny percentage of shipments may be seized you could see the RP value of such and come up with ideas to not only secure your shipment but also in the process of doing so, enhance the roleplay for everyone involved.

No because, and try to stay with me here though it's a hard concept to understand, we are role-playing. Your character should have depth and progression, it is supposed to be something you care about. Your character has done those things in the past, made decisions that were wrong and is now paying the price for it. Actions carry consequences and will stick with that character. This is supposed to be like that, role-playing isn't a one day kinda thing where you're entitled to new beginnings everytime you feel like it. You did something on that character, now pay the price. If that's too much to handle then you can always CK and get your true new beginning.

The following are the crimes that will get your request denied: GM01 - Aggravated Assault or Assault on a Government Employee GM02 - Battery GM03 - Possession of a Blade GM07 - Possession of a Fake Operator License or ID Card GM08 - Identity Theft GM10 - Vigilantism GM12 - Predatory Lending GM13 - Giving False Information to a Police Officer GM14 - Criminal Threats GM16 - Animal Abuse GM18 - Bribery NM06 - Stalking WM02 - Carrying an Unlicensed Firearm or Weapon WM05 - Possession of a Firearm while Intoxicated DM02 - Possession of a Controlled Substance While Armed As you can see, these crimes will rightfully prevent anyone from carrying a licensed firearm. If someone is denied a license based on the guidelines, they shouldn't get one through a backdoor either. Why is it a problem when someone convicted of the above crimes is not issued a license?

I'm confused. Anyways, your suggestion lacks why this should be a thing and why mechanics, taxi drivers etc cannot just go and obtain a gun license the official way?

If they are great rpers, upstanding citizens and don't break the law, what stops them from just applying for a license like everyone else?

You have had an incident where you believe you were treated unfairly. And you say you have reported it. Why do you not wait for the outcome of it and just sit it out, let IA do their job and investigate it? Why do you feel the need to come on here and bash an entire faction and its members over an incident you had? Do you not see anything wrong with what you're doing? Even if you had an issue that was legitimately against the rules and protocols, that does not reflect the entire department like you're making it out to be. Wait for your report to be concluded. I can guarantee you that we are held to very high standards. PD has everyone breathing down their neck at all times. You don't see any PD members coming on the forums making 5 topics a day about how bad the gangs are and bad their roleplay is. https://imgur.com/a/UhS7jrS There are 30 different protocols we have to follow. All of these far exceed any and all server rules. No other faction, apart from MD, has anything alike. You are complaining about an isolated case and because that happened, suddenly everything is bad and we need to throw it all out the window.

You are very wrong about that. We are in chases more often than I can count. And that has always been and will always be a daily occurrence. While you might have had a bad experience it does not mean that there is anything majorly wrong with the PD. We give you the tools to report any and all PD members for anything you deem misconduct. You complained that the report form is too much to fill out. Well, we are sorry that we require a lot of detail. We do this because we take it seriously, we investigate all reports fully and then come to a conclusion. In order for that to be as beneficial to your claims as possible, we need all of the information we can get. This thread had potential to go somewhere and be a constructive discussion but it has once again been derailed by people who refuse to see any other point than their own. I will say one last thing for everyone who believes the PD is corrupt, power-hungry and plays to win. If the PD had only the server rules to follow, like all of you, and not the internal protocols, you would be back on here asking for the old way back. The reason you're not being arrested for Murder while only speeding is not the server rules but our internal regulations and protocols. If we were only bound to the server rules like everyone else, I promise you would not be happy.

You are right that if a store is being breached and you are pointing a gun at the cashier, then that's a bit odd. I can agree with that point. If however, you're hiding in the back or behind shelves, it's fair play to enter the store. Nobody should ever respond to a robbery call Code-4 (Without lights and sirens). A store robbery call is always a Code-3 (With lights and sirens) response. What may happen occasionally is the order "Go Code-2 when a mile out" being given which means when a mile out, switch to lights only without sirens, this is done to not alert the robbers. If you see these things happen then please make a report on the LSPD forums. It is vital that the PD gets that information. We take our protocols and regulations very seriously which anyone that has been in the PD can attest for, but if things don't get reported to us, it can't be fixed. I agree with this being very unfair and that in a real-life situation, it is highly unlikely to happen. We do have to give very clear demands before opening fire at all times unless of course fired upon. This should never happen, nobody without a weapon should ever be shot by us. That fact is being stressed over and over again and is taken very seriously. If something like that happens I can just again ask anyone to report it to us. Get their IDs, a video, screenshots, anything that helps us identify the person and they will always be reprimanded for such behaviour. We do want a fair and level playing ground for everyone on the server, no member of PD is exempt from server rules. Our internal protocols often go beyond the server rules and restrict our realm of action more than someone who isn't in the PD. We always aim to be an example of OOC behaviour and IC roleplay standards. If things like that happen, we rely on anyone in the community who is affected by it to report it to us. Yes, it means work for yourself but realise that nothing can change unless we have something to work with. The Officer who breaks the rules and protocols cannot be suspended, demoted or discharged without someone reporting his misconduct. Save this link, and please make use of it whenever you feel like the situation you have been in was not right. https://gov.eclipse-rp.net/viewforum.php?f=24

After about 3 tickets don't you think that maybe you could have realised something was going on with all these messages you're getting? Or after 10, 15, 25 even. 35 tickets that you didn't know about? Right...

Make sure to "lower" the phone back down as if it`s up on your screen, it doesn't seem to work.

I am in favour of a judicial system where people can appeal a sentence and charges. I think that we as the LSPD are not exempt from making wrong decisions, it happens and in those cases, should be corrected. However, I don't think every misdemeanour should be appealable, we will find that anyone will demand to see a judge over any length of sentence, regardless of right or wrong. People would try their luck, which frankly makes sense if the system is in place. Therefore it needs to make sense. If someone appears in front of a judge IC and appeals their sentence, the officers involved will be taken off shift, they'll have to upload their videos, the judge needs to review it, hear everyone`s side of the story, all that while roleplaying it properly. I think you see where this is going. A 15-minute jail sentence will turn into an hour or more of waiting for everyone to be ready, upload their footage, talk it out ICly etc. It`s not viable and not what we`re here for, to play a game and have fun. What I`m proposing is to only make certain charges appealable. Misdemeanours should be banned in this process, as they`re just so small and simple that this whole process wouldn`t make much sense. If you look at the Penal Code, only crimes that are felonies would make sense to have this process for. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qMm9u2Tl59RBpNyNSA88G7WYPFwiOgzXqL-1cWgAHEc/edit#gid=123845845

What you're describing is SWAT executing a warrant on someone, what exactly is the wrongdoing in that? If someone amasses a huge number of speeding tickets they fail to pay, they'll have warrants out for their arrest. These are organized operations that require planning and proper communications and that's where SWAT comes in. You want to extract someone without having them put up a fight, you roll up in numbers. Happens IRL all the time. Cops aren't exempt from breaking ANY server rules and if you believe this has happened, report it. You say you see these reports and nothing happens, but where are they? Cops get punished all the time, just like any other player does. Your claim isn't viable, you've got no proof for any of it. Do you honestly believe that in a city rampant with gangs and gun violence, a police department would ever run out of ammo or weapons or body armor? In a city where everyone has access to heavy weapons just by strolling down the sidewalk and being asked ten times if they want to buy a gun, the police department is supposed to be barely able to respond to these threats? Of course, guns are "free" for cops, but they aren't taking them home. The weapons are issued and returned after the shift. No government on earth would allow their police force to be outgunned by thugs, ever. You're making it sound like cops just get heavy weapons and run loose, that's absolutely not true. You have not the slither of an idea what it takes to be certified for heavy weapons, how many hours of training each and everyone has to go through, written tests and evaluation sessions before they're even allowed anything other than a handgun and taser. To get to a point where you have access to heavy weapons takes a cop longer than most of the factions half-life on this server. To come here and make the assumptions and accusations is just plain disrespectful. People in the PD wait for months and go through copious amounts of training to be let into SWAT and continue to train every week to uphold that status. While you log on and buy an AK a minute later, the cop you're complaining about has sunk hundreds of hours into arrest reports, impound reports, field training sessions, and evaluations before even coming close to a heavy weapon. And when they do finally have it, they're bound by yet more regulations and protocols that surround the use of it. You have no idea what any of the things you complain about actually take to be certified for, yet you just assume it's too easy and cops run around with heavy weapons for the fun of it.