How table explosions are handled

[Aldarine]

After reading a lot of this I believe that the statements made by the OP are being misconstrued and turned into something it’s not and those responding are not taking a very obvious thing into account.

At present time in the server there is an automatic 911 call made when a drug lab has an explosion in it. This call made is very specific stating that there was an explosion along with the location. In response to this, numerous factions respond, being MD and PD or SD depending on location and more often than not it is automatically treated as a criminal situation due to the knowledge that the only thing capable of producing said call is an explosion from a drug table. This jump to a conclusion would technically be considered invalid as realistically something else in a home could cause an explosion and the reaction being what it is comes from the OOC knowledge of how the script works. OP please correct me if I am incorrect in stating this is one of your concerns.

Ultimately the response could be more downplayed as opposed to the jump to conclusions - of which I am guilty myself being in MD - and the responses from all responding factions could be diminished to allow for more pathways of creative roleplay as opposed to making it an immediate criminal investigation. Perhaps the 911 call verbiage could be changed, internal SOPs adjusted, etc.

[Ultra3D]

2 hours ago, Aldarine said:

After reading a lot of this I believe that the statements made by the OP are being misconstrued and turned into something it’s not and those responding are not taking a very obvious thing into account.

At present time in the server there is an automatic 911 call made when a drug lab has an explosion in it. This call made is very specific stating that there was an explosion along with the location. In response to this, numerous factions respond, being MD and PD or SD depending on location and more often than not it is automatically treated as a criminal situation due to the knowledge that the only thing capable of producing said call is an explosion from a drug table. This jump to a conclusion would technically be considered invalid as realistically something else in a home could cause an explosion and the reaction being what it is comes from the OOC knowledge of how the script works. OP please correct me if I am incorrect in stating this is one of your concerns.

Ultimately the response could be more downplayed as opposed to the jump to conclusions - of which I am guilty myself being in MD - and the responses from all responding factions could be diminished to allow for more pathways of creative roleplay as opposed to making it an immediate criminal investigation. Perhaps the 911 call verbiage could be changed, internal SOPs adjusted, etc.

You got it 100%, I don't care if PD/SD are they but I feel how its currently handled does not make sense RPly and the call when it comes in only means one thing.

[jason]

The phone call changing wouldn't change the fact that it's an explosion, and I'm really not sure what SOP could be changed without sounding entirely unrealistic. "Do not immediately treat an explosion in a high-rise apartment building in the city as a crime scene." It's not a limit on creative roleplay, it just makes complete sense. I disagree with stuff like shooting bank robbers the millisecond a hostage is 3 centimeters in the clear because that just stops an entire situation that could've been planned out with cool escape routes and distractions, but not treating an explosion as a crime scene just seems silly, especially in the eyes of literally everyone that isn't the person whose apartment exploded. You could argue that he could try and say it's a pressure cooker or something but PD is still going to have to investigate it nonetheless. 

[Ultra3D]

20 minutes ago, jason said:

The phone call changing wouldn't change the fact that it's an explosion, and I'm really not sure what SOP could be changed without sounding entirely unrealistic. "Do not immediately treat an explosion in a high-rise apartment building in the city as a crime scene." It's not a limit on creative roleplay, it just makes complete sense. I disagree with stuff like shooting bank robbers the millisecond a hostage is 3 centimeters in the clear because that just stops an entire situation that could've been planned out with cool escape routes and distractions, but not treating an explosion as a crime scene just seems silly, especially in the eyes of literally everyone that isn't the person whose apartment exploded. You could argue that he could try and say it's a pressure cooker or something but PD is still going to have to investigate it nonetheless. 

I agree with some of the things you are staying. Since switching back over to the criminal side of things im just starting to notice how cut and dry situations are. There are little to no fully RPed out situation where both sides get to participate. This is not a issue of the person but how things are set up. I personally feel that if things were changed that MD were to be the only ones that get the calls and once they deem that PD is needed (Which should not be right away) PD can go from there. This leave opportunity for escalation to it being a crime scene where the whole block needs to be secure etc.

[jason]

I just can't agree with that at all. It doesn't make any realistic sense whatsoever and directly puts MD in danger every single time they respond to that call.

[Ultra3D]

38 minutes ago, jason said:

I just can't agree with that at all. It doesn't make any realistic sense whatsoever and directly puts MD in danger every single time they respond to that call.

If md sees gang members building up or has irrefutable evidence of drugs being produced then they can bring PD in. But I mean even if its not that, I still thing that there is a better way of handling these situations that can be a better middle ground

Edited October 25, 2021 by Ultra3D

[jason]

Right but the second anyone sees MD there they're not going to give them that opportunity and will take them hostage within the apartment while they clear their stuff out, therefore putting MD in direct and immediate danger.

[Ultra3D]

5 minutes ago, jason said:

Right but the second anyone sees MD there they're not going to give them that opportunity and will take them hostage within the apartment while they clear their stuff out, therefore putting MD in direct and immediate danger.

I see a middle ground where allowing MD to carry guns into situation. Not only for situations like this but in general. In the past they could I dont know why they cant now.

Edited October 25, 2021 by Ultra3D

[Bala]

You want to talk realism from police? Okay, let's talk realism.

• Putting a drug lab into a high end apartment complex.
  This is akin to the rule about not being able to ram with $300-400k vehicles.
• Cutting the apartment in half with floating flooring for easier access.
• Putting a stupid amount of doors in an apartment even when it doesn't make any sense to do so.
• Using bolt cutters on doors that have hinges.
• No long-term damage to an apartment, despite a large enough explosion that half the city hears it.
• No damage to any of the surrounding apartments.
• Every time an apartment explodes, drugs or drug making apparatus is found inside.

If you want to expect realism, then make it make sense.
Until then, when we get a 911 call, we answer it. No one in PD likes attending these things, they are monotonous but it's part of a ever shortening list of situations we can respond to.

No point arguing over short term fixes/problems/solutions and PD policy is definitely not going to be decided by any of us responding to this thread lol.
This will go away if the Apartment Labs get replaced by something else, which has been suggested quite fantastically by yours truly.

[Ultra3D]

13 minutes ago, Bala said:

You want to talk realism from police? Okay, let's talk realism.

• Putting a drug lab into a high end apartment complex.
  This is akin to the rule about not being able to ram with $300-400k vehicles.
• Cutting the apartment in half with floating flooring for easier access.
• Putting a stupid amount of doors in an apartment even when it doesn't make any sense to do so.
• Using bolt cutters on doors that have hinges.
• No long-term damage to an apartment, despite a large enough explosion that half the city hears it.
• No damage to any of the surrounding apartments.
• Every time an apartment explodes, drugs or drug making apparatus is found inside.

If you want to expect realism, then make it make sense.
Until then, when we get a 911 call, we answer it. No one in PD likes attending these things, they are monotonous but it's part of a ever shortening list of situations we can respond to.

No point arguing over short term fixes/problems/solutions and PD policy is definitely not going to be decided by any of us responding to this thread lol.
This will go away if the Apartment Labs get replaced by something else, which has been suggested quite fantastically by yours truly.

I don't think people should cook in apartment. But I feel criminals should get a proper place we can work out of. Own. or run where we can place tables in a proper way. The main reason people use apartment is because criminals cant afford 2+ million businesses so the next best thing, which is is a 400k apartment. If houses were empty, AKA no props not placed by the home owner more people would cook in 1gs. But again apartments cooking is the only affordable way to do it effectively.

Edited October 25, 2021 by Ultra3D

[Aldarine]

To keep this thread on track, perhaps it’s as simple as reaffirming to law enforcement that these 911 calls should be more roleplayed as anything causing said explosion as opposed to the conclusion jump of a drug lab. That’s something that should be fairly simple.

[jason]

I'm 100% on board with this. In that universe, police still show up and establish a crime scene first. I have no qualms with removing the assumption of a drug lab.

[Bala]

1 hour ago, Aldarine said:

To keep this thread on track, perhaps it’s as simple as reaffirming to law enforcement that these 911 calls should be more roleplayed as anything causing said explosion as opposed to the conclusion jump of a drug lab. That’s something that should be fairly simple.

I didn't take it off track. There was no original statement to reaffirm about this. Changing it now is pointless, for reasons that both you and I are both aware of.
It's an explosion, a big explosion and the scene needs to be secured. Which means only people that need to go in (cops/medics) should go in.

The end result is the same, so changing it makes no sense.

Quote

I don't think people should cook in apartment. But I feel criminals should get a proper place we can work out of. Own. or run where we can place tables in a proper way. The main reason people use apartment is because criminals cant afford 2+ million businesses so the next best thing, which is is a 400k apartment. If houses were empty, AKA no props not placed by the home owner more people would cook in 1gs. But again apartments cooking is the only affordable way to do it effectively.

I don't know how people can have expectations of PD/SD to be realistic then if they are skipping the realism part in order for cooking to be cheaper. I find that especially hard to take from someone that used to stand outside these situations and do the exact thing he's telling people not to do.

Make your mind up, either we're going for realism or we're going by the game. It can't be both.

[Ultra3D]

1 minute ago, Bala said:

I didn't take it off track. There was no original statement to reaffirm about this. Changing it now is pointless, for reasons that both you and I are both aware of.
It's an explosion, a big explosion and the scene needs to be secured. Which means only people that need to go in (cops/medics) should go in.

The end result is the same, so changing it makes no sense.

I don't know how people can have expectations of PD/SD to be realistic then if they are skipping the realism part in order for cooking to be cheaper. I find that especially hard to take from someone that used to stand outside these situations and do the exact thing he's telling people not to do.

Make your mind up, either we're going for realism or we're going by the game. It can't be both.

This whole realism argument does nothing for the conversation. Everything can be more "realistic" Like making/manufacturing drugs in small scale don't use tables. Pounds of crack/cocaine can be made in a single bedroom. On the server for scripting reasons we are limited to tables and the tables take up alot of space. That's why people don't really cook in 1/2gs because there is not enough space to be efficient.

[Aldarine]

@Bala - Incorrect. From the start it was stated that it should not automatically be assumed that it’s a lab explosion because realistically numerous other things can cause an explosion and people should still have the ability to do roleplay to cover up the lab and have it be believable. The same goes for when you see smoke under a door - the assumption of a lab shouldn’t be made. 

Reaffirming this stance that was taken long ago would only be beneficial or raise the topic internally of what assumptions can/cannot be made so everybody is on the same page and it’s not one person doing one thing and another doing something else and it will be fair across the board.

[jason]

There is a balance between the two and exceptions can be made in either direction. I've also had the issue of tunneling into the argument of "it's full realism or full game mechanics" and it will only destabilize your view of things regardless of whether or not they're valid points. We should stay on topic or this thread will end up locked & archived when it is a valid discussion.

My previous post sums up my thoughts but I'll reiterate. The calls should not be assumed to be drug labs, however they should still be treated as a crime scene as realistically it's a high-rise apartment building in the city that just had a significant explosion inside of it. MD should not be entering with guns to protect themselves from danger, that's just entirely unrealistic and poor RP standards. MD and PD work together for a reason, if we wanted MD to have the side of PD we'd just give them all of PD's tools and vice versa with PD. There's different factions for a reason and interdepartmental relations are good to utilize and strengthen.

[IAmTurtle]

1 hour ago, Aldarine said:

From the start it was stated that it should not automatically be assumed that it’s a lab explosion because realistically numerous other things can cause an explosion and people should still have the ability to do roleplay to cover up the lab and have it be believable.

How do you not make an assumption of this sort when you icly have responded to the same call numerous times and have seen the same results?

[Ultra3D]

3 hours ago, IAmTurtle said:

How do you not make an assumption of this sort when you icly have responded to the same call numerous times and have seen the same results?

I agree, that's why I feel how its all handled should change like differing call types or chances of no calls. Like maybe when a table blows compared to how much drugs are still backlogged in the cook determine how big the explosion is and say it blows with 1-2 drugs left there could be a chance of no 911 but still if someones close to the table could still get hurt/injured and would need to decide to call for backup/MD to survive or risk the chance of dying and the rest of their tables blowing leading to more chance PD getting notified.

Edited October 25, 2021 by Ultra3D

[Bala]

Trying to force people not to roleplay them as what they are is like peeing into the wind, you just end up with very wet shoes.

How we choose to think of them doesn’t make a difference to the response. It’s a 911 call to a location, we respond and do our thing so the firefighters can do theirs. We then spend the next 30 minutes clearing it out and then go on about our day.

Basically what Riggy said. It’s the same thing with the static drug labs and chops  before. All this selective memory stuff becomes pseudo-metagamey and memey. At least at a chop, the person may or may not be chopping a car. Apartments go boom for one reason and one reason only.

if someone goes into an apartment, I’m not gunna assume they are running a lab but if an apartment building goes boom then best believe I’m gunna assume something bad has gone on and respond accordingly. 

Don’t hate the player, hate the game.

[jason]

As this discussion has long since been concluded, it will now be locked & archived.

Thank you to all of those who participated and provided feedback within this discussion.