Jing Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 (edited) In my opinion, Police Factions (PD and SD) should stop using teamspeak as it promotes NonRP/Unfair advantage and it promotes and facilitates (directly and indirectly) metagaming. Issue: 1) NonRP: The reason why teamspeak is used is because the ingame-radio frequencies can get congested and its easier to see who is speaking (and online) by using teamspeak. This is completely unrealistic and using teamspeak to for "ease" and "commodity" to bypass this is also unfair. 2) Unfair Advantage: PD/SD can see who is online, who is on joint frequency, exchange information and many other actions with the hopes that it is not used for metagaming. 3) Metagaming: Teamspeak is the main culprit for much of the metagaming issues with PD/SD. Besides what can and can not be said when on teamspeak OOC and IC, you can see may things like who is online and send messages across the platform while having conversations and exchanging IC information and skimming the lines between OOC/IC. If admins need to review and discuss information I think at this point Discord can be used. Solution: Stop using teamspeak and use the in game radio frequencies to manage joint frequency communications. PD/SD have already blocked in game frequencies that they use that can not be accessed by non-faction members. In this case, they can block a few more frequencies and use those as the joint frequencies. Then they can RP internally ways to manage the frequencies like they do with dispatchers in real life. This will also solve all the metagaming issues with using teamspeak and will create a more fair environment because at this point using it for "ease" and "commodity" is not acceptable. Edited January 17, 2021 by Jing Edited due to controversy of the Meta word 3 4 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrus Raven Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 -1 Anything that can be done in TS could just be done in discord with no direct supervision from any sort of staff member. Furthermore, do we have evidence this is a widespread issue ? ''Teamspeak is the main culprit for much of the metagaming issues with PD/SD'' Proof ? Two Scenarios: 1 - People metagame in the TAC channels, in which case they have a ton of other people in there (some of which are bound to be staff) to call them out/punish them 2 - People metagame in the private channels, in which case they would likely still do it on another platform outside of teamspeak, just like every single player on this server can via Discord/Skype/Mumble, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z0thian Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 +1 to my understanding TS was used to counter voip issues, however voip is currently the MOST stableit has ever been in game, so I really see no need for TS anymore when PD could have ig tactical binds with /bindradio. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSilky Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 45 minutes ago, Jing said: 1) NonRP: The reason why teamspeak is used is because the ingame-radio frequencies can get congested and its easier to see who is speaking (and online) by using teamspeak. This is completely unrealistic and using teamspeak to for "ease" and "commodity" to bypass this is also unfair. This is an alternative method approved by senior staff. We have trialled in-game frequencies before, but as there is no script-support for being on two frequencies at the same time (like IRL for Police) we have to use an alternative (strictly moderated) method. 45 minutes ago, Jing said: 2) Unfair Advantage: PD/SD can see who is online, who is on joint frequency, exchange information and many other actions with the hopes that it is not used for meta gaming. The ECRP TS is used for much more than just PD/SD cop rp. Most of the people in the teamspeak are members of other GOV factions, but not on-duty, just talking with friends. The same advantage you are referring to can also be /fmembers in game for gov/official factions. This is not just a PD/SD thing. 45 minutes ago, Jing said: 3) Metagaming: Teamspeak is the main culprit for much of the metagaming issues with PD/SD. This is simply not true and is a baseless claim - unless you are withholding evidence? Any issues that arise, are instantly acted upon. Furthermore, as mentioned above, someone who wants to metagame, will metagame. The ECRP TS is heavily moderated and is very strict on what can/cannot be said when playing. This is a much better alternative to a few players sitting in an unmoderated discord group call. 45 minutes ago, Jing said: Stop using teamspeak and use the in game radio frequencies to manage joint frequency communications. As above, we have tried. It is just unfeasable at the moment as we require two active radio channels at once. 45 minutes ago, Jing said: This will also solve all the metagaming issues with using teamspeak and will create a more fair environment because at this point using it for "ease" and "commodity" is not acceptable. As above, this is not a known issue. If you have evidence, please submit it for review in a player report. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulius Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 42 minutes ago, Jing said: 3) Metagaming: Teamspeak is the main culprit for much of the metagaming issues with PD/SD. Please provide evidence/facts supporting this claim in the upcoming 24 hours, thanks. 6 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osborn Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 5 minutes ago, NBDY said: Please provide evidence/facts supporting this claim in the upcoming 24 hours, thanks. In addition to this, read: On 5/12/2020 at 8:49 PM, FatherOsborn said: Hello, thank you for your suggestion. At this point in time, it's not in our interest to remove the LSES teamspeak. The LSES teamspeak is moderated by all of the staff team (LSES member or not, they can request the ability to connect), and there's been several punishments handed for metagaming in the past. As the previous poster pointed out, we cannot moderate discords we aren't a part of, and there's nothing stopping members from LSES factions to resort to sitting in group calls / private discords and freely speak there with no chance of repercussion unless it's reported to us by someone from the inside. The LSES teamspeak will always be something that we require LSES faction members to be in when they are on duty, because as mentioned, it's a moderated environment. There is a pending development request by PD/SD around radios to help them move their TAC channels In-Game, however, the community has been very outspoken about any focus going into legal faction development the past few months, but I am sure that once all current projects are completed, that NBDY/Osvaldon will work on the pending legal faction development requests. - Osborn. Now I'll let you address what NBDY inquired as you make it seem like Teamspeak is some uncontrolled metagaming ring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jing Posted January 17, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 7 minutes ago, NBDY said: Please provide evidence/facts supporting this claim in the upcoming 24 hours, thanks. As examples, you can look at all the accepted past reports about metagaming warning given to users of teamspeak. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulius Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, Jing said: As examples, you can look at all the accepted past reports about metagaming warning given to users of teamspeak. Please provide them, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jing Posted January 17, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 11 minutes ago, FatherOsborn said: In addition to this, read: Now I'll let you address what NBDY inquired as you make it seem like Teamspeak is some uncontrolled metagaming ring. Who said its an "uncontrolled metagaming ring"? I simply said: "it facilitates (directly and indirectly) metagaming.". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrus Raven Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 Just now, Jing said: Who said its an "uncontrolled metagaming ring"? I simply said: "it facilitates (directly and indirectly) metagaming.". Why lie about this ? ''Teamspeak is the main culprit for much of the metagaming issues with PD/SD'' the clear implication here is that you somehow believe this is a widespread issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jing Posted January 17, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 Just now, Cyrus Raven said: Why lie about this ? ''Teamspeak is the main culprit for much of the metagaming issues with PD/SD'' the clear implication here is that you somehow believe this is a widespread issue Take it into what ever context you want, there are accepted reports in the archive section you can look at in regards to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrus Raven Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 Just now, Jing said: Take it into what ever context you want, there are accepted reports in the archive section you can look at in regards to this. It's always telling when people go on the suggestions or discussion threads making wild and baseless claims, you would look so good and validated if you managed to show all these various metagaming reports regarding TeamSpeak, but you can't cause they likely don't exist or they are few and far between which is why you have to resort to ''JuST LoOK iT UP'' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felcon Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 6 minutes ago, Jing said: Take it into what ever context you want, there are accepted reports in the archive section you can look at in regards to this. so just because of a couple people MGing means we should not have teamspeak. Even tho its just a couple bad apples. Its like saying official factions should not have /Fchat because in the past people even in your own faction used it to metagame it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jing Posted January 17, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 4 minutes ago, Cyrus Raven said: It's always telling when people go on the suggestions or discussion threads making wild and baseless claims, you would look so good and validated if you managed to show all these various metagaming reports regarding TeamSpeak, but you can't cause they likely don't exist or they are few and far between which is why you have to resort to ''JuST LoOK iT UP'' What about my suggestion, or cant you look past the metagaming comment? Plus, the reports are their, whether or not you or anyone wants to take a look is a choice. 1 hour ago, Jing said: Stop using teamspeak and use the in game radio frequencies to manage joint frequency communications. PD/SD have already blocked in game frequencies that they use that can not be accessed by non-faction members. In this case, they can block a few more frequencies and use those as the joint frequencies. Then they can RP internally ways to manage the frequencies like they do with dispatchers in real life. Admins and Staff can use team speak for what ever admin tasks they need, but keep PD/SD out of it. Simple. What me to take away and delete the metagaming claim as its controversial and people are focusing on this. I will dash it for comfort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tylxrrr Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 -1 / +1 I think PD/SD have to be able to be on two frequencies at the same time. So, the only way they would be able to divert from Teamspeak would be if there is a script for it. Otherwise, they will just have to use Teamspeak. Onto the metagaming, there has definitely been mistakes with people not pressing down both keys. When I was in PD, I made a AutoHotKey script, so I just have to press my mouse button and it would trigger my phone key and Teamspeak push to talk. Now that I think about it, I am not sure why we had to be on both frequencies at the same time, especially since we technically had one radio. I am not sure if that is actually how it is with real police, but if someone could enlighten me that would be great. Maybe if the "being on two radio frequencies at the same time" is abolished, then they can just block out some frequencies for TACs and you can just use them instead of Teamspeak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulius Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, Jing said: What about my suggestion, or cant you look past the metagaming comment? Plus, the reports are their, whether or not you or anyone wants to take a look is a choice. Admins and Staff can use team speak for what ever admin tasks they need, but keep PD/SD out of it. Simple. What me to take away and delete the metagaming claim as its controversial and people are focusing on this. I will dash it for comfort. I have informed you about 24 hours for providing evidence for the claim, I will have to treat it as spreading misinformation on purpose if you fail to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dashingly Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 Just now, Jing said: What me to take away and delete the metagaming claim as its controversial and people are focusing on this. I will dash it for comfort. The whole crux of your argument as to why PD/SD shouldn't use TS in your POV is because of the metagaming. If you remove that point, then why would PD/SD stop using TS? In all reality, I -1 this topic, there isn't rampant metagaming going on in TS, and it is 1000x better then using game comms to try and coordinate with PD/SD/DOC/MD as there isn't a great script for it. For pursuits, TS is vital... there is no substitute at the moment. We can't be on multiple frequencies, and thus we can't flood all of the PD radio with pursuit callouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulius Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 Moreover, I would be interested to know why MD and DOC were excluded from this suggestion as they also use teamspeak. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrus Raven Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 7 minutes ago, tylxrrr said: -1 / +1 I think PD/SD have to be able to be on two frequencies at the same time. So, the only way they would be able to divert from Teamspeak would be if there is a script for it. Otherwise, they will just have to use Teamspeak. Onto the metagaming, there has definitely been mistakes with people not pressing down both keys. When I was in PD, I made a AutoHotKey script, so I just have to press my mouse button and it would trigger my phone key and Teamspeak push to talk. Now that I think about it, I am not sure why we had to be on both frequencies at the same time, especially since we technically had one radio. I am not sure if that is actually how it is with real police, but if someone could enlighten me that would be great. Maybe if the "being on two radio frequencies at the same time" is abolished, then they can just block out some frequencies for TACs and you can just use them instead of Teamspeak. I'm fairly certain (anyone with Law Enforcement experience feel free to correct), that Police usually have one hand-held radio (usually on their vest) + whatever vehicle radio they have, this is also supported by dispatch which I assume can come into certain dedicated frequencies if the need arises to recall certain units and redirect them to wherever they are needed. In eclipse we don't have dispatch nor do we have the ability to hold multiple radios or have a hand-held + car radio, making TS a necessity. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jing Posted January 17, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 4 minutes ago, NBDY said: Moreover, I would be interested to know why MD and DOC were excluded from this suggestion as they also use teamspeak. Let's add them all to the list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jing Posted January 17, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 1 minute ago, Cyrus Raven said: I'm fairly certain (anyone with Law Enforcement experience feel free to correct), that Police usually have one hand-held radio (usually on their vest) + whatever vehicle radio they have, this is also supported by dispatch which I assume can come into certain dedicated frequencies if the need arises to recall certain units and redirect them to wherever they are needed. In eclipse we don't have dispatch nor do we have the ability to hold multiple radios or have a hand-held + car radio, making TS a necessity. Excuses. Step 1 - SD or PD go to SD or PD radio freq and advise them to jump into Joint Tac. (Plus you the the department radio chat option) Step 2 - Go to the frequency bind created in game for Joint Frequency Step 3 - Done. Whats the difference? Currently the only difference is step 2 where you go to teamspeak joint channel. Then when done you go back to the OOC channel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tylxrrr Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 Just now, Cyrus Raven said: I'm fairly certain (anyone with Law Enforcement experience feel free to correct), that Police usually have one hand-held radio (usually on their vest) + whatever vehicle radio they have, this is also supported by dispatch which I assume can come into certain dedicated frequencies if the need arises to recall certain units and redirect them to wherever they are needed. In eclipse we don't have dispatch nor do we have the ability to hold multiple radios or have a hand-held + car radio, making TS a necessity. Ah okay. That makes sense. With that being said, I think it's fine to continue using Teamspeak. The biggest issue people seem to have with it is the metagaming. I mean anyone can download Teamspeak and metagame if they wanted, so it is not too much of a big deal. I definitely recommend people to download AutoHotKey and make a script though, so you can ensure you have both keys pressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virus5310 Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Dashingly said: TS is vital... there is no substitute at the moment. We can't be on multiple frequencies, and thus we can't flood all of the PD radio with pursuit callouts. Like said above, TS is vital for many reasons. I'll put the main reason out there in my opinion. IRL Emergency Services have a dispatch system, people that are trained to use different type of systems to aid different types of emergency services in many ways. As of now, ECRP only has a self dispatch system. The calls that you see come in, you respond on your own. You don't have a dispatcher to assign you to calls or anything. To add a little further onto it, IRL cops have a dispatcher in a frequency when different types of situations happen whether that be IRL pursuits or any type of situation requiring them. (at least its like this where I'm from) This was just to add on to the comment stated above. Edited January 17, 2021 by WolfV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jing Posted January 17, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, Jing said: Step 1 - SD or PD go to SD or PD radio freq and advise them to jump into Joint Tac. (Plus you the the department radio chat option) Step 2 - Go to the frequency bind created in game for Joint Frequency Step 3 - Done. This is pretty much all that needs to be changed, no HUGE development required here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrus Raven Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Jing said: Excuses. Step 1 - SD or PD go to SD or PD radio freq and advise them to jump into Joint Tac. (Plus you the the department radio chat option) Step 2 - Go to the frequency bind created in game for Joint Frequency Step 3 - Done. Whats the difference? Currently the only difference is step 2 where you go to teamspeak joint channel. Then when done you go back to the OOC channel. I believe several others have already pointed out, there is currently no way to be on two radios at the same time. If PD/SD/DOC/MD were to follow what you laid out, then they would be cut off from the main channel, being unable to respond to other calls, adapt to situations, etc... That is the difference. Using TS allows them to be in a dedicated channel for specific situations while still allowing them to listen to the main in-game radio. Listen, in all seriousness. When coming up with these suggestions you have to keep in mind the benefit of the suggestion and the work needed to implement it and I fail to see any benefit that would come from this, especially since the main point of it was to curb/stop metagaming by these factions, which isn't an issue. Edited January 17, 2021 by Cyrus Raven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
