3. Character Creation and Property

[Vaseline]

Hi! 

Recently I have ran into a sort of rulebreak I was not aware of, that lead up to a permanent ban for me; RWT (for transferring money between two characters.).

Now right now, what is RWT exactly?? Real World Trading. 

It's the matter of trading IC assets for OOC assets is what I thought it was. Untill I ran into this rulebreak during my unban appeal and I didn't think it was fair for people to receive permanent bans for this, not just for me but for everyone who has been going through this in the past.

 

When I heard people have been banned for RWT, I thought that's most likely because of things such as; 

- Player A Sold/trade a certain asset for X amount of money IRL with Player B
- Player ASold/trade a certain asset for X amount of Eclipse Credits with Player B

I can totally understand this is against the rules and this should not be done nor come into your mind at all. But how come people who do money transfers between two characters of their own results in *the same? I never expected money transferring between two characters of your own would result into a permanent ban, it doesn't even say it's a permanent ban in the rules. This is something that should be put up somewhere on either the forums or the rules page to make people more aware of the consequences of the rulebreaks.

People who just transfer money between their own characters recieve *the same punishment as people who sell IC assets for OOC profits.

*  = permanent ban

Like, right now I'm permanently banned for RWT because of money transferring between characters and I find it unfair that I get the same punishment as someone who gets OOC profits involved in the game.

This is not an unban appeal, this is just something that should be set right in the Rules as there's no logic in issueing permanent bans to someone who transfers money between his characters whether it's 50k or just a car; permanent ban. In my opinion this is just ridicioulous to think about.

My example of a punishment that could be given out is a temporary ban.

Eventually checking the value of the transferred assets and depending on that, the duration of your ban would be decided.

 

Regards,

Skipper // Vaseline.

Edited July 15, 2020 by Vaseline

[PGtips]

I agree that their should be a separate rule for IC transferring without prior permission as opposed to RWT. Many people can be unaware that they can't transfer between "cousins" and believe that if there's an IC reason to do so, then they will carry out the transfer. I think it's an extremely hard punishment to permanently ban someone over this without issuing a warning. The extremity of the punishment for unauthorised asset transferring could be dependant on how much was transferred. 

 

I fully support a decision to make the two offences into two separate punishments.

 

Charlson / PGtips

[kenichis]

The reason this is considered RWT is that some people might transfer weapons from his Legal character to his Criminal character. This gives the criminal character an IC advantage that is unrealistic because it is from an OOC circumstance (the player having 2 characters).

I agree that people who do this by accident should be warned or such first, but even then the "permanent" ban is usually appealable if you are relatively new and simply unaware. Adding on to it, this is already in the rules, both under RWT and also Metagaming regarding you not being able to have any knowledge regarding your other characters.

Lastly, if you really do need to transfer something, make a transfer request so that moderators can review if there is sufficient IC reason for the transfer to happen.

 

[Vaseline]

8 hours ago, kenichis said:

The reason this is considered RWT is that some people might transfer weapons from his Legal character to his Criminal character. This gives the criminal character an IC advantage that is unrealistic because it is from an OOC circumstance (the player having 2 characters).

I agree that people who do this by accident should be warned or such first, but even then the "permanent" ban is usually appealable if you are relatively new and simply unaware. Adding on to it, this is already in the rules, both under RWT and also Metagaming regarding you not being able to have any knowledge regarding your other characters.

 

Yes but as I said, depending on which assets and eventually looking at the value of an asset they should issue a ban thats temporary, unless we're talking big money which may just break a character that could be issued as a permanent ban, yes. But a permanent ban for only money transferring is ridiciolous imo.

 

 

Edited July 14, 2020 by Vaseline

[StefanoSalads]

+1  Not a known rule by many, so it may cause confusion. Should be a warn instead of immediately perma banning.

[Rukicake]

+1 they should be 2 rules . putting you into the group of people who do irl cash trade is too unfair

[Aldarine]

Just for reference, the final line of Rule 3 Character Creation and Property specifically states:

Transferring assets between your own characters requires an approved transfer request.

[Vaseline]

2 minutes ago, Aldarine said:

Just for reference, the final line of Rule 3 Character Creation and Property specifically states:

Transferring assets between your own characters requires an approved transfer request.

I understand but my point is that, how come, eventually due to lack of the knowledge of this rule OR ignoring the rule, results into a complete permanent ban.
Temporary ban of a month or two/three should be enough I wanna say?

[Aldarine]

All bans can be appealed and there is no cool down on the first appeal you make. It can very well only be a short ban if appealed properly for a true mistake depending on the review.

[Vaseline]

12 minutes ago, Aldarine said:

All bans can be appealed and there is no cool down on the first appeal you make. It can very well only be a short ban if appealed properly for a true mistake depending on the review.

Unfortunately it's not that easy as you just said it. I put so much effort & time in my permanent ban DM appeal and afterwards it got denied after all, you can clearly see in my appeal I had no intention to DM the person nor break the RWT rule (Money transfer) as I did not know the exact points of this rule as I never meant to break it. I tried my best to explain my POV as I never had a chance to save my POV as I did not get informed about the report

Kinda sad to have to leave the community for something I did not even mean to do, no one has intentions to break any rules unless it's obvious but I have been a member of this community for so long and always enjoyed RP. I have made mistakes in the past, yes and I'm sure everyone has, however all these rulebreaks have been learn moments but that's got a line where it ends up in a permanent ban sadly enough and that for two (in my opinion) punishment that did not make any sense to me but unfortunately Dqniel did not think the same way and I respect his meaning but this was one of the most unbelievable punishments I have ever experienced in the past two years in the community

I just find it unfair how, in this case, I, who just transferred money between two of my own characters, got put in the same line as people who make profit out of Eclipse RP by playing it and who still are. That's why I put this rule suggestion up. In my opinion I did not deserve a permanent appeal for just money transfer. If I asked someone OOCly profits for my IC assets, sure I will understand a perma ban, but just for money transfer. I mean, 1x NON RP punishment & asset reversion would make more sense instead of a permanent ban.

the appeal is on @Skipper character.

Edited July 15, 2020 by Vaseline

[CaesarSeizure]

The thing is that as per the rule "Players may not transfer assets to other players or to other characters they own without proper IC reason. Doing so will be treated as Real World Trading (RWT)" and just like every other punishment, there are ban thresholds in place. In this case, RWT is a ban no matter the reason how you get RWT, so nothing can be done about that.

But i would agree that this should not count as RWT, and should be treated as metagaming. With the recent rule change about characters not knowing about each other, this would make sense. Additionally, as this has more serious implication, any kind of breach of the Metagaming rule and Property rule, should give you a metagaming punishment + asset removal (houses/cars if these were transferred) + any potential gains you made based on the transfer that would be at the discretion of senior staff.

This would not lead to a ban on peoples first offense, but the monetary loss would likely discourage people from doing it again.