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Sam Axe

Change the scamming rule suggestion

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Recently I've seen tons of people getting scammed and that's why I'm suggesting a new system that would void certain types of scams on certain basis. First off I understand that there needs to be a risk someone takes when trying to avoid taxes like in real life but I think there needs to be a limit and to be realistic. If you go to a bank or certain other institutions or maybe even find an attorney you should be able to request them to write up a contract. It would basically say something like the first party agrees to give an amount of money and the second party agrees that upon receiving the money they would hand over the property or Goods and you would have to have their ID  at the time of signing .Of course if someone hands over their own property and the person still tries to scam them they would not be able to do so because they've voided a legal contract and basically committed fraud allowing the person to get their property back. Upon investigating it if the police see no evidence that one of the parties held up their end, the person who got scammed would get their property back and the scammer would have a warrant placed for their arrest. fraud is also in the Los Santos Police Department penal codes if you would like to see for yourself or just read the lspd definition for fraud: 

22
Wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain

There are several other laws these people break when scamming as well. So if it's illegal already how does this make sense that you can't get the property back that was illegally obtained and the government says the guy who committed fraud to gain the property is now the legal owner while also being able arrest him for taking that property that the government says he owns now?

 

I know some viewpoints will be hey if you try to avoid a tax on a $100,000 car and get scammed well that's just on you but we really need to note something important. The whole argument for allowing the system in currently is that since you're not paying tax to the government the sale would be sort of illegal and therefore risky but if it's illegal in the first place why would the government system get updated that the property was transferred over instantly and person B is now the legal owner even if he was arrested for illegally getting the property from the person?

 

If someone is found guilty of fraud contracts are reversed irl so why not allow a rule that says:

if you sign a contract ( and showed your license at the time of signing) if the police find you guilty of fraud/arrest you, once they find the property it goes back to the original owner upon being seized by the police? This would prevent silly but insane situations where people scam people out of houses for example

 

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Edit, some people are mentioning to use the already in game systems and pay the tax to avoid the risk but, here are some situations that would prevent or stop people from using these systems

One example: say you need Fast Cash to pay for your rent bill, get a good deal on a apartment or several other things and you try to sell your vehicle but the HE Market is full so then you have to go to the LE and sell it for far less and take it huge hit that would come out to being a loss of maybe 30-50% possibly where the person doesn't care if they have to pay tax or not

 

Second: somebody wins an auction and they want to prevent somebody I'm sitting outside the house waiting until the price is lowered so they can basically steal the house for what the other person bid and won it for

 

Third: someone wants to trade vehicles instead of Simply selling them as both people may be really low on cash.

 

Fourth: say you are renting out a hotel room and somebody signs a contract with you agreeing to pay say 6 months worth of rent at a lower rate. Once you hand over the money Nothing is Stopping the person from that point from breaking the contract and running off with the money and also putting the entire place up for sale.

 

I can provide several other examples but these are just a few where the ability to use the in-system scripts are not available for this or something the person could not control would prevent the script from working correctly

Edited by Sam Axe
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I remember when I was in police one guy scammed another guys car, basicly they rped writing contract that person A pays person B X ammount of money for the car. Person A admitted not paying for the car and basicly just stealing the car therefore when we came as police we tried to make the person give his vehicle back (remember scammer admitted not paying money therefore contract is not valid and basicly the car is being hold only due to ooc rule that you need to give the vehicle to person by yourself and noone else can do it) but people here are not for RP, he refused to give it back and the person got his vehicle back only with admin help. 

Big +1

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There are literally scripted systems in place to prevent being scammed such as Low End, High End and the overall house market. There is absolutely no reason to have a contract or get "scammed". Its up to you weather you wanna use the scripted systems in place or avoid tax because someone doesn't want to make 5% of a sale.

Just be smarter and don't avoid taxes with random people you don't know or trust

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I think a lot of the issues here could be solved by introducing more space to High-End or maybe even add another car market. Right now, what happens is that people try to sell their vehicles on HE but there's simply not enough space for them. They go to the bank with no intention of avoiding taxes and end up getting scammed. A lot of people (especially new players) who get scammed don't really know or understand the tax system regardless. 

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59 minutes ago, FatherOsborn said:

Hello, are you guys saying you want to be able to avoid taxes with a contract easier? 😮

Not exactly, I'm more suggesting maybe even adding a contract fee where the two parties would agree that they would need to sign a contract and maybe they could even pay a lower tax rate and it would only be one or 2% tax for the total sale or pay a flat rate fee that would go maybe to the state. And if I may not everybody does a private sale to avoid taxes, I know that a lot of people do it for that reason but sometimes it's just because the dealerships are sometimes full, People need cash that moment or they just want to sell it to a friend / have an auction and not have to worry about somebody waiting outside the house after the auction is over for the person to run up and really quickly as soon as they lower the price to the amount the guy who won the auction paid some guy hopped out the bushes and buys the house house before the guy can even react

Edited by Sam Axe
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54 minutes ago, Chrisy said:

There are literally scripted systems in place to prevent being scammed such as Low End, High End and the overall house market. There is absolutely no reason to have a contract or get "scammed". Its up to you weather you wanna use the scripted systems in place or avoid tax because someone doesn't want to make 5% of a sale.

Just be smarter and don't avoid taxes with random people you don't know or trust

But in some situations that's not the reason people do Private Sales, you have things like auctions on the website for properties, vehicles and  sometimes people just want to get more money for them or like in 1 case I needed to make some fast cash and tried to sell my vehicle but the high-end Market didn't allow for any more Vehicles because it was already full and basically forced me to take a huge hit and sell On The Low End Market. If I could have done a private sale without a risk of being scammed I wouldn't have lost so much money. having to sell the vehicle for less than $30,000 because the high-end Market was full

Edited by Sam Axe
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18 minutes ago, iAchieve said:

I think a lot of the issues here could be solved by introducing more space to High-End or maybe even add another car market. Right now, what happens is that people try to sell their vehicles on HE but there's simply not enough space for them. They go to the bank with no intention of avoiding taxes and end up getting scammed. A lot of people (especially new players) who get scammed don't really know or understand the tax system regardless. 

That's exactly what happened to me a couple days ago. Needed some fast cash and i tried to sell my vehicle at HE but I couldn't because it was totally full so I was forced to take a huge and I mean huge loss and sell the vehicle for a Max of 30 k at the LE

Edited by Sam Axe
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46 minutes ago, Rubsmeister said:

The trade off is fair. Take the risk of getting scammed and don’t pay the tax or pay the tax and don’t risk getting scammed.

That's not the reason people do it though, sometimes people don't do it to Simply avoid the tax. Sometimes it's because the car markets are totally full or somebody had an auction on the website try to figure out how much money to sell a building for. In the second scenario just think out of fear of being scammed if somebody did allow the person to buy the building and pay the taxes what would stop somebody from watching auctions and if they don't win it they just wait in a bush nearby for somebody to put the house on the market for the auction price so they pay the tax and out jumps mr. Lost the auction and buys the house before anyone reacts

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30 minutes ago, iAchieve said:

I think a lot of the issues here could be solved by introducing more space to High-End or maybe even add another car market. Right now, what happens is that people try to sell their vehicles on HE but there's simply not enough space for them. They go to the bank with no intention of avoiding taxes and end up getting scammed. A lot of people (especially new players) who get scammed don't really know or understand the tax system regardless. 

To be frankly honest I've always kind of wondered how many new players worked for like a week every single day just to buy one vehicle and then go to the bank and not realize like you said, don't know about the tax system and get tricked out of their vehicle and never come back because of it

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4 hours ago, sophy16 said:

100% yes. can't sell things anymore without taxes because people don't trust. make scamming with a contract banable.

Definitely, I kept trying to sell a vehicle while ago and nobody wanted to even talk to me and kept saying Go away scammer just because I was trying to sell my car

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4 hours ago, SamuelGunn said:

I remember when I was in police one guy scammed another guys car, basicly they rped writing contract that person A pays person B X ammount of money for the car. Person A admitted not paying for the car and basicly just stealing the car therefore when we came as police we tried to make the person give his vehicle back (remember scammer admitted not paying money therefore contract is not valid and basicly the car is being hold only due to ooc rule that you need to give the vehicle to person by yourself and noone else can do it) but people here are not for RP, he refused to give it back and the person got his vehicle back only with admin help. 

Big +1

Honestly the big thing with this I don't understand is it the people can already be arrested for committing fraud why wouldn't they have to give back the property that they committed the crime for 

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