Welfare, Jobs and Being Fired

[Kai]

So this comes with the whole decreased welfare changes, which also makes what I am about to suggest more viable.  I thought it would be a good idea previously however with welfare being so high it wouldn't make much difference.

I would love to see a system that for being arrested can affect your job, such as being 'fired' (blacklisted) from being a courier for example. This means you cannot simply sit on a good job paycheck whilst also committing crimes.  This would therefore put you back onto only earning a lowered welfare amount.  I don't think it makes much RP sense anyway for all these people to be employed this way IC'ly.

The length of the blacklist could of course change depending on the severity of the crime, meaning they would be IC'ly fired from their job, having to wait before taking one up again.  This would match being fired, and finding it hard to find another job due to their recent criminal history.

This could also work with my other suggestion I just posted, where not doing your job could also have a firing mechanic:

 

Upon being arrested, they would receive this blacklist whether they are currently employed or not (to avoid people simply quitting the job as they are arrested) - this is just for clarity cos Mr King is dumb .  It would also be a possibility to have one exemption where they could still get a 'shitty' job of the garbage trucks, but something would need to be done to not allow them to simply sit on that salary either, but still giving a way to earn some money.

 

Edited May 20, 2019 by Kai

[xxxJustTimmy]

+1, I take full credit for the last paragraph, it was all my idea.

[ThePro]

I think that faction leaders should decide if they want to blacklist them or no. Not a system. -1

[Kai]

4 minutes ago, ThePro said:

I think that faction leaders should decide if they want to blacklist them or no. Not a system. -1

This would apply to standard jobs not factions. Factions do not decide who gets to be a courier or a money transporter.

[Jbacon]

I like this idea, I at one point made a suggestion on a point system.

Good behaviour (normal day to day life) accumulates points +1 every 10mins or something
Ticket = -5 points
Misdemeanor = - 20 points
Felony = -50 points.

Each type of job would require a certain amount of points to be eligible.... kinda like a criminal record check

Each new player would start with a point balance of 0 if they got a ticket they would lose 5 points, and can go negative.

Jobs 

Courier 0+
Farmer 0+
Bus 25+
Trucker 40+ 
and even player run factions could use this system also if they choose.

If someone employed in one of the above jobs drops below the minimum points then they would be terminated from employment and would have to reapply (rejoin) once they meet the requirement.

Example:
I am employed as a trucker with (43points) making my deliveries, (or driving home from work) I speed through a speed camera and get a speeding ticket.... well I just lost 5 points and once I complete my deliveries should I not be above 40 points by the time I return the truck my position would be terminated.

I am employed as a farmer, and I rob the farmer beside me and the cops catch me, well that's robbery - 20points, I lose 20points, that puts me below the minimum points requirement and paul wont hire me anymore.

But.

I am a trucker with a perfect driving record and don't do anything wrong, and have been well behaved for a long time. I get a speeding ticket, well I lost 5 points but im at + 65 so now im at 60 points... so I don't lose my job just need to be careful.

[Brawnkoh]

2 minutes ago, Jbacon said:

I like this idea, I at one point made a suggestion on a point system.

Good behaviour (normal day to day life) accumulates points +1 every 10mins or something
Ticket = -5 points
Misdemeanor = - 20 points
Felony = -50 points.

Each type of job would require a certain amount of points to be eligible.... kinda like a criminal record check

Each new player would start with a point balance of 0 if they got a ticket they would lose 5 points, and can go negative.

Jobs 

Courier 0+
Farmer 0+
Bus 25+
Trucker 40+ 
and even player run factions could use this system also if they choose.

If someone employed in one of the above jobs drops below the minimum points then they would be terminated from employment and would have to reapply (rejoin) once they meet the requirement.

Example:
I am employed as a trucker with (43points) making my deliveries, (or driving home from work) I speed through a speed camera and get a speeding ticket.... well I just lost 5 points and once I complete my deliveries should I not be above 40 points by the time I return the truck my position would be terminated.

I am employed as a farmer, and I rob the farmer beside me and the cops catch me, well that's robbery - 20points, I lose 20points, that puts me below the minimum points requirement and paul wont hire me anymore.

But.

I am a trucker with a perfect driving record and don't do anything wrong, and have been well behaved for a long time. I get a speeding ticket, well I lost 5 points but im at + 65 so now im at 60 points... so I don't lose my job just need to be careful.

I think the downside to this is new players get hammered over and over again with speeding tickets. New players will be in the negative on points due to not knowing where speed cameras are and will never be able to get a job, and many of these jobs are specifically designed for new players.

I would be okay with the crime points, but I'm reluctant to take away jobs from new players over speeding tickets. That seems counter productive to me.

[Jbacon]

well tbh this is an RP server, people should make half an attempt to drive responsibly and actually make an attempt at a real sorta approach rather then a GTA online style of play.

 

[Brawnkoh]

1 minute ago, Jbacon said:

well tbh this is an RP server, people should make half an attempt to drive responsibly and actually make an attempt at a real sorta approach rather then a GTA online style of play.

 

Maybe if our cruise control worked properly. You are looking at this from a vet perspective, not a new player perspective. 

[Jbacon]

cruise control works fine, only time you need to re toggle is when you get in the car.... but you shouldn't need to rely on it... do you rely on your cruise control to limit how fast you drive you real car on the streets? Because real cruise is used to hold a speed, but allows you to go above said speed, not prevent you speeding, it is the drivers responsibility to ensure they aren't speeding.

If people are joining this server it is to RP, thus should be taking it seriously otherwise they can and likely will impact the rp of others in the community and unfortunately the impacts are often negative.

[Flamefriends]

+1

[Brawnkoh]

1 minute ago, Jbacon said:

cruise control works fine, only time you need to re toggle is when you get in the car.... but you shouldn't need to rely on it... do you rely on your cruise control to limit how fast you drive you real car on the streets? Because real cruise is used to hold a speed, but allows you to go above said speed, not prevent you speeding, it is the drivers responsibility to ensure they aren't speeding.

If people are joining this server it is to RP, thus should be taking it seriously otherwise they can and likely will impact the rp of others in the community and unfortunately the impacts are often negative.

You absolutely have to rely on cruise control, this isn't a pedal. Our cars don't function like IRL vehicles. There is no partial gas, you're either to the floor, or giving your car no gas. My car gets up to 70 kph in a split second. Even today, I get tickets I don't even mean to get in the blink of an eye. IRL cruise control allows you to not have to have your foot on the gas, which definitely does stop you from going over the speed limit. I'm not sure what kind of vehicle you drive, but my car both speeds up and slows down based on my cruise control setting.

Secondly, if you want to talk about "realism", camera tickets don't count against your driving record in most locations that I am familiar with. Only tickets from actual traffic stops.  Beyond that, if we want to talk realism, we are getting traffic tickets wearing masks in stolen cars. Why is that? Because the primary purpose of tickets are to keep people from speeding in NCZs, and keep innocents safe. Let's not confuse those OOCly as an intended functions of "the law". Speeding tickets are not for law enforcement, they are for public safety in areas where large amounts of people congregate.

Lastly, guess how many times an officer has tried to pull me over for speeding in Los Santos in the past 400 hours? Zero...If you want to stop people from speeding, start pulling them over.

[Wifye]

+1 

Second +1 to @Jbacon for his point system too. 

Perhaps start with +50 points for new players just to not limit any civilian jobs

[Jbacon]

your essentially an immigrant not everyone is going to hire someone off the get go.... trucking company would be hesitant to hire someone that has no experience in the country... but I can understand that hence why some of the jobs are set at 0... and the points are obviously open to change.

[Brawnkoh]

3 minutes ago, Wifye said:

+1 

Second +1 to @Jbacon for his point system too. 

Perhaps start with +50 points for new players just to not limit any civilian jobs

I'd be okay if they started with points. I'm just not okay with taking jobs away from new players instantly. 

[Jbacon]

@Brawnkoh I alone pulled over 20 speeders last night… so yea, problem with that is that everyone is after the big crimes and shooting at cops rather then RP.

I as also on my criminal the other day at a traffic stop to only have the officer harassed and killed while giving me a ticket... to which I didn't even know who the criminal was, or anything and have no ties to other gangs. So this shows the general lack of RP standards held in the community by some of the players.

Speeding cameras in Real life don't just issue tickets like these ones, but also remove points from a persons license, and if your caught in excess of what's called "stunting" 50kph over the speed limit it is sent for review by officers/clerks who will issue warrants i'm certain... at least that's the way it works here in my neck of the woods.

while yes I agree the cameras are mostly in place to try and deter people driving like maniacs all over the place at 200kph because we all know a city the size of los santos (based even on the GTA Online version) would have thousands of cars and civilians walkin around, rage and 99% of peoples computer on the server would never be able to support 300+ players, and then another 3000 npcs walking about. I personally when am alone or rping with people I pretend the city is packed with people.

Anyways we are getting side tracked here a bit.

I agree to not limit new players instantly but feel that higher paying jobs should be harder to obtain.... example being truckers.... as not just anyone can go out and become a trucker, courier is easyier, and farm labourer hell I was one when I was 12.... 18 years ago. Different jobs should have different requirements… and also Come on... you shouldn't be able to be a courier driving a company vehicle without a license... and trucker the same.... no company is going to let someone without a license drive their vehicles and 90% demand clean driving abstracts. (obviously this is hard to do with what people do here but to an extent it should impact their job opportunities some.)

[Wifye]

21 minutes ago, Jbacon said:

@Brawnkoh I alone pulled over 20 speeders last night… so yea, problem with that is that everyone is after the big crimes and shooting at cops rather then RP.

I as also on my criminal the other day at a traffic stop to only have the officer harassed and killed while giving me a ticket... to which I didn't even know who the criminal was, or anything and have no ties to other gangs. So this shows the general lack of RP standards held in the community by some of the players.

Speeding cameras in Real life don't just issue tickets like these ones, but also remove points from a persons license, and if your caught in excess of what's called "stunting" 50kph over the speed limit it is sent for review by officers/clerks who will issue warrants i'm certain... at least that's the way it works here in my neck of the woods.

while yes I agree the cameras are mostly in place to try and deter people driving like maniacs all over the place at 200kph because we all know a city the size of los santos (based even on the GTA Online version) would have thousands of cars and civilians walkin around, rage and 99% of peoples computer on the server would never be able to support 300+ players, and then another 3000 npcs walking about. I personally when am alone or rping with people I pretend the city is packed with people.

Anyways we are getting side tracked here a bit.

I agree to not limit new players instantly but feel that higher paying jobs should be harder to obtain.... example being truckers.... as not just anyone can go out and become a trucker, courier is easyier, and farm labourer hell I was one when I was 12.... 18 years ago. Different jobs should have different requirements… and also Come on... you shouldn't be able to be a courier driving a company vehicle without a license... and trucker the same.... no company is going to let someone without a license drive their vehicles and 90% demand clean driving abstracts. (obviously this is hard to do with what people do here but to an extent it should impact their job opportunities some.)

I see where you're going with the jobs but waiting 250 minutes for the bus driver or 400 minutes(+1 per 10 minutes) is just way too long for regular civilian jobs that don't have too much responsibility or impact on other players.

Perhaps just raising the price of getting a truck license or making the test much tougher would have the effect you're looking for so it's more than just a time limitation. 

Edited May 20, 2019 by Wifye

[Brawnkoh]

15 minutes ago, Jbacon said:

@Brawnkoh I alone pulled over 20 speeders last night… so yea, problem with that is that everyone is after the big crimes and shooting at cops rather then RP.

I as also on my criminal the other day at a traffic stop to only have the officer harassed and killed while giving me a ticket... to which I didn't even know who the criminal was, or anything and have no ties to other gangs. So this shows the general lack of RP standards held in the community by some of the players.

Speeding cameras in Real life don't just issue tickets like these ones, but also remove points from a persons license, and if your caught in excess of what's called "stunting" 50kph over the speed limit it is sent for review by officers/clerks who will issue warrants i'm certain... at least that's the way it works here in my neck of the woods.

while yes I agree the cameras are mostly in place to try and deter people driving like maniacs all over the place at 200kph because we all know a city the size of los santos (based even on the GTA Online version) would have thousands of cars and civilians walkin around, rage and 99% of peoples computer on the server would never be able to support 300+ players, and then another 3000 npcs walking about. I personally when am alone or rping with people I pretend the city is packed with people.

Anyways we are getting side tracked here a bit.

I agree to not limit new players instantly but feel that higher paying jobs should be harder to obtain.... example being truckers.... as not just anyone can go out and become a trucker, courier is easyier, and farm labourer hell I was one when I was 12.... 18 years ago. Different jobs should have different requirements… and also Come on... you shouldn't be able to be a courier driving a company vehicle without a license... and trucker the same.... no company is going to let someone without a license drive their vehicles and 90% demand clean driving abstracts. (obviously this is hard to do with what people do here but to an extent it should impact their job opportunities some.)

The point I'm trying to make here, is sometimes realism has to be set aside for balance. I was using the cameras as an example. If you want to deter people from working legal jobs, it's going to result in people committing more crime. It's counter productive to the overall problem the server is experiencing with the "hands up" mentality. Driving people away from legal jobs, drives them towards illegal ones.

No matter how much in your heart you want realism, you're not thinking about the IC consequences of the realism you're asking for. There is both IC and OOC consequences to every action.

Even today, recidivism rates in the U.S. are extremely high. A large portion of this is due to lack of employment, or lack of good employment and lack of skilled workers. Do you think in a situation where almost everyone is a criminal (The US amplified exponentially) less crime and more RP is going to happen if you take away jobs? Taking away jobs will create more criminals in Los Santos, not less. 

[Jbacon]

well perhaps a reward system can be implement as well to increase points earned... make a courier delivery + 1 point, so if your working that job or any job you are rewarded... as most of the courier, money transport jobs there are only about 5minutes between drops you would gain additional points for said job... or at the end when you return the truck you get x points x being a multiple of the number of drops you make, kind of like the system that if you make 10 money drops you get a bonus. It was a suggestion to increase rp as currently anyone can go and get a job as a trucker/courier and at the same time criminals use to be known to go get a bus just on a whim and block highways or get a truck from the depo so they had a heavy vehicle to stop the police. This would limit the potential and would mean people would require to have a good record to work these jobs, as if I personally ran a business in this game, I would model it similar to that of my RL job where if you have a criminal record you get paid less then the guy who has nothing. For fear that your going to abuse, steal or just not perform.

[Indecent]

Totally agree! I wouldn't want my delivery guy to have been arrested 5 times for mugging. In the real world, you can get a crime expunged so why not here as well.

[alexalex303]

21 hours ago, Brawnkoh said:

Maybe if our cruise control worked properly. You are looking at this from a vet perspective, not a new player perspective. 

Cruise control was fixed in the latest patch. Can't blame that anymore.

[Brawnkoh]

3 hours ago, alexalex303 said:

Cruise control was fixed in the latest patch. Can't blame that anymore.

Good to know.

I missed it in the patch notes.

[Salvador Rivera]

There should be some kind a way to get cash by % of from your bank ammount .