Eclipse RP's economic problem

[Rubsmeister]

Players that have been playing for a little while (and especially those that have played for a longer time) will have noticed that prices of finite objects on the server gradually increase. We see this in super cars, houses, stores and heavy weaponry for the time that official criminal factions were disabled. This is only logical: supply stays the same but as the server grows and players make more money, demand increases. This causes inflation, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. It happens in most western countries and is actually stimulated because it stimulates economic growth. 

This however, becomes a very serious problem when the playercount rises quickly, as it has done over the last few months. Houseprices have almost tripled and anyone that isn't part of the top 20 richest players of the server can forget about owning a super car all together. This is especially damaging to newer players who now have to be prepared to pay around 300k for a simple 1 garage home. Richer players with assets only grow exponentially richer. This is troubling, because if this proces continues, inflation will increase faster then players can make money, making it physically impossible for anyone that doesn't own a house yet to ever own one. I personally think that house prices should range between 30k and 2 million, from low end to high end housing.

But how do we achieve this? How do we create a level playing field without undoing all the work that people have already done? We can look at how other games handle the same issues. Take OSRS for instance, plagued by Venezualan botters it suffered from serious inflation aswell. To counter this, the developers introduced more money sinks. This brings me to the first part of my suggestion:

 

Money sinks

Money sinks are a simple way of taking money out of circulation and causing money to be more finite. Currently, Eclipse only has very few money sinks. Most things either stay level in value or rise in value overtime. To counter this, maintenance costs or taxes of sorts could be introduced. This way, owning a house isn't just straight up making money any more and prices will take a dip as players realise they will need extra money for upkeep. 

 

House caps

Even with money sinks, the supply of houses is still very low. This will automatically result in high prices. So to make houses more available, the following can be done: Limit the amount of houses a player can own over his whole account (perhaps limit players to owning only 2 houses). This way players are forced to sell their houses when they buy a new one and richer players cannot just hoard houses and wait for the prices to rise. This will increase supply and somewhat lower the price. 

 

Constant prices

Even with housecaps, the price of houses will still climb as playercounts grow. To counter this, price caps or constant prices can be introduced. This way there is no money to be made in owning a house at all and players will only own houses to use them. This way the developers can also decide what they think is a fair price for housing and keep it at this price. New players will also be able to purchase houses because the prices come down to actually achievable amounts.

 

Thanks for taking the time to read my suggestion. If you have any questions or commentary, please let me know. I am always up for a discussion!

[Juvante Mathews]

26 minutes ago, Rubsmeister said:

Richer players with assets only grow exponentially richer. This is troubling, because if this proces continues, inflation will increase faster then players can make money, making it physically impossible for anyone that doesn't own a house yet to ever own one.

I couldn't agree with this statement enough. +1

[Luke kuperus]

I do agree with this, though you can already only own 3 Houses

[agentxyz2]

Great points. I hope they have already started thinking about these things as soon as the streamer wave began. +1

[Wifye]

An easy fix is just to increase the amount of lower class properties but I think that's already in progress.

 

While I agree the housing situation isn't great, I don't think capping prices is a good idea. A huge consideration to property value is location. Players should be able to ask whatever price they want when selling their property due to such factors. 

An example of this is having a property close to a certain location like the bank or a specific organizations HQ. That property becomes prime real estate due to that and with limited quantities, players should be able to jack up the price more without a cap to it as it becomes desirable with the growing player base.

 

On the topic of money sinks though, it's tough to take money out of the economy when it's needed in it, especially for factions. Things like increased taxes, parking fees, furniture, items and upkeep fees help take some money out but really don't stimulate the players so to speak.

That's where novelty stuff comes in to play at its best. Having some extremely high prices cosmetic items will not only take money out of the economy from "rich players" but also give them something in "reward" to show for it.

Another alternative for both a huge money sink and adding potential new property could be to allow players to purchase "novelty establishments". This would obviously need to be coordinated by the development team but could pretty exciting. The "novelty establishments" would be places that aren't really businesses or houses. It would be things like parks, the golf club, the pier amusement park, and other similar locations that the players could purchase for "novelty, status and bragging rights". It would certainly draw money out of the economy and it wouldn't really make them any money but being able to say you own something so unique like the pier amusement park, that might be enough incentive to toss millions at.

 

Edited May 13, 2019 by Wifye

[Rubsmeister]

On 5/13/2019 at 6:06 PM, Wifye said:

An easy fix is just to increase the amount of lower class properties but I think that's already in progress.

 

While I agree the housing situation isn't great, I don't think capping prices is a good idea. A huge consideration to property value is location. Players should be able to ask whatever price they want when selling their property due to such factors. 

An example of this is having a property close to a certain location like the bank or a specific organizations HQ. That property becomes prime real estate due to that and with limited quantities, players should be able to jack up the price more without a cap to it as it becomes desirable with the growing player base.

 

On the topic of money sinks though, it's tough to take money out of the economy when it's needed in it, especially for factions. Things like increased taxes, parking fees, furniture, items and upkeep fees help take some money out but really don't stimulate the players so to speak.

That's where novelty stuff comes in to play at its best. Having some extremely high prices cosmetic items will not only take money out of the economy from "rich players" but also give them something in "reward" to show for it.

Another alternative for both a huge money sink and adding potential new property could be to allow players to purchase "novelty establishments". This would obviously need to be coordinated by the development team but could pretty exciting. The "novelty establishments" would be places that aren't really businesses or houses. It would be things like parks, the golf club, the pier amusement park, and other similar locations that the players could purchase for "novelty, status and bragging rights". It would certainly draw money out of the economy and it wouldn't really make them any money but being able to say you own something so unique like the pier amusement park, that might be enough incentive to toss millions at.

 

You raise some very valid points. I agree with you, a price cap is something you rather wouldn't introduce because it takes a part of the server's identity away. However, when it comes to low end houses for instance you can argue that it is a goverment measure to cap the houses at a certain price. Real governments in the real world do this when there is no affordable housing for lower class civilians. In real life (and on Eclipse for that matter) pricecaps deter people from buying low end houses and selling or renting them out for profit. This way everyone will atleast be able to get a simple house. High end houses can be a bragging right so to speak.

As for your idea with the money sinks, couldn't agree more. I was having trouble thinking of money sinks that didn't just impact poor players as much as they impacted rich players. One condition does have to be: You can't sell the cosmetics for profit. They have to be a one time investment and that money has to be gone, otherwise the problem is not solved or even amplified. For instance your idea with the golfclub: Make it something you can rent for a certain amount of time. Richer players will be able to rent the golf club and have their bragging rights, but that rent is now gone forever. 

Thanks for your great ideas!

Edited May 14, 2019 by Rubsmeister

[DGanja]

+1 300k for a little shit shack is brutal especially when you're new and gotta have everyone pool together their money. Granted there are plenty of ways to make a hustle, and stacking bread isn't too hard as long as you're efficient. The crappy thing is that there's hardly any houses for under 300k out there

[xxxJustTimmy]

These are some really good points, big +1

[gohena]

The economic problem is people have too much money and nothing to spend it on on my opinion, the wealth gap is insane. once you have a few cars and a house there is nothing else for you to work towards that is realistic. when i saved up for my super car by the time i had 3 mill it cost 4 mill, and now its probably double that, also keep in mind during then gas prices was like 2-4$ now it's even more plus the fact now when you over 1 million total wealth you get taxed 35% i did not have to deal with that during the time i saved up for my super car which is an insane tax bracket, plus speeding camera tickets. I been in eclipse for almost a year now and it literally took my like 6-8 months irl to save up for a super car working for a government job, and prices have only gone up since then. Also those wealthy IRL can just buy more house slots and hog them then rent them out for in game money. A small pay to win aspect in my opinion. Players just need more things to spend money on that will keep them happy/entertained and an end goal to keep playing not more money sinks that will take away what little money they have. While they try to create money sinks and try and punish the richer player in reality they are punishing new players making it harder for them, the rich are already rich, they're not going to really lose money i already own 4 cars one which is a super and a big house.There are tons of businesses in the city which are empty/vacant they should add more player owned business, that way at least middle class players have something to work towards. A lot of the new players that joined during the crazy rush we had are almost all gone the server would be 400+ on weekends now its back to 200-270, it's just too punishing in the world of eclipse.

That's my opinion on that.

Edited May 14, 2019 by gohena

[Wifye]

Taking in the fact hundreds of people play on the server each days and with more joining each day, we'll never have a house for everyone.

 

Obviously there isn't going to be thousands houses available to purchase but what if motels/hotels, economy apartments, and trailers were implemented? Basically they'd work identical to houses but it would be "rented" for a day, week, or month on a fixed price. The way it would work is similar to the "ticket system" once you pay rent, you're informed that you have X amount of days to pay before you're evicted.

Examples: (obviously able to be changed)

Hotel/motel - 1day (5k)

Economy Apartment - 1 week (25k)

Trailer - 1 month (75k)

Basic principles behind this is to increase housing but also put an affordable lower price in place while also ensuring potential availability for future residents in the event of people finally buying a house, getting tired of paying rent(not needing a residence) or people quit playing(much quicker turn around vs the current wait of property going unopened)

I'm not sure if the whole motel, hotel, efficiency apartment complex, or trailer parks themselves should be able to be purchased and offer the ability to changes the rates for additional profit or not(like the gas stations with costs vs locations). I see both positives and negatives to it but I think having pros of them as businesses would outweigh the cons.

Pros:

More properties to buy(initial money used in purchase would disappear from the economy), competition in pricing, available "protection" opportunities, and creative amenities.

Cons:

Money generating, rates could get high, having many people housed in a close area would likely create lots of conflict and crime.

 

All in all, the more I think about this whole idea, the more it seems like it could be very viable to be fleshed out. I don't want to throw a whole new thread up on it though but someone else could if they want to really flesh out the idea.

 

Edit/Add-on #1

To target rich players too, there could be extremely "luxurious" locations able to be rented like @Rubsmeister suggested in response to my earlier post.

Edit/Add-on #2

In order to justify the different types of rental times here's a few examples.

Hotel/Motel - 1 day - perfect for business deals, laying low, and intimate encounters

Efficiency Apartment - 1 week - perfect for temporary housing for people in town working(new players deciding if they want to stay)

Trailers - 1 month - people who want a dedicated property for an extended period of time but can't afford a house.

 

An extra note is that people currently rent out their owned houses so perhaps this whole system could have additional mechanics implemented to support this existing element. That too could be set to a month by month basis like trailers.

Edited May 14, 2019 by Wifye
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