Criminal Roleplay - DM Rule & Backup Rule

[moment]

Hi all,

For those who don't know I'm Ash Volkov and been playing the server since late 2018 and beginning of 2019. I can with utmost gratitude experienced everything on the server espically as a main criminal and enjoyed every moment of it.

Now onto the topic at hand this is made to raise some awarness cause I don't think without changing things nothing is going to get BETTER or even create those new moments as I did many years ago.

When I first landed on the server I had so many different roleplay opportunities as a criminal, at the time the DM rule wasn't enforced as it is right now. If you had an issue with another player or wanted to rob someone you could do it, there isn't a RULE holding you back. Everything relied on the character and the roleplay evolved naturally, everything relied on me not around a rule. I had the consequences, I had the risk and I suffered the aftermath. My full honesty the roleplay simply as became ruleplay everyone when I mean everyone mindset as a criminal roleplay shifted "to Save POVs" because why? If for example I have beef with Jonathan_Smith and I see him at City Parking, I can't do nothing about it cause of a rule surrounding public area? Why are we limiting criminal roleplay like that?

Gunplay and fighting is a BIG PART of the server, I do not see why so many people in this server dislike and has some weird agenda against it. It is one with honestly one of the beautiful intense moments for people, shooting doesn't mean because we are just clapping, it creates conflict, beef and much more. It's so sad after all these years instead we evolved roleplay we degraded it to mostly surrounding labs. Back in 2018, 2019 the criminal roleplay was amazing there big gangs such as triads and zetas taxing small gangs to get their way up, it is not necessarily a bad idea as you think about it. It is still roleplay at the end of the day, it's something. I even remember I had to be aware where I leave my car or uphold myself cause my opponents might pull up, I had to actual value my life icly but now I don't have that fear cause I have a rule backing me up? This is absurd how we do not see this type of roleplay infront of our eyes. Nowdays you can only rob people around activities, where normally it's only around labs.

I see reports and even mixing in game:

- "Are you really gonna shoot me for saying some mean words"? Like how can we see this type of behavior infront of our eyes? If someone is shit talking we should be able to kill him.

With all my respect player theft and the DM rule killed criminal roleplay, many criminals such as myself stayed quiet for a long time, I feel like something needs to be done at this point to reword the rule or bring back once what it was. Also respect veterans cause they have some good fundumental ideas and experienced alot which can help at the end of the day.

Backup rule needs to be completely removed guys, maybe this was made during council days but it's time to bid farewell to this rule. - It is killing the necessity for friends and people to spend time together from different gangs.

Honestly I probably have more situations on top of my head but can't remember right now.

tl;dr - everything in the old day was more naturally and actually evolved criminal roleplay, revert back to 2018 - 2019.

Edited December 16, 2025 by moment

[Tego Walker]

 

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Edited December 16, 2025 by Tego Walker

[Nedis]

+1, I want to add something as well. Straightforwardly changing rules won't change that much in the server since the main problem is lack of new players. If staff wants to make this server alive again, they need to invest more money into ads, streamers, etc., because it's going to end up like LTU ECRP...

[Eliza]

I agree. The report culture is so bad and I think we should take into account if meaningful roleplay is created or if an outcome was actually impacted due to a minor rule break before a punishment is issued or deny more actual petty reports, and we need to completely remove refunds with the exception of cheaters and bugs. We’ve fostered this environment as staff for far too long where if you took an L all you have to do is skim your footage and throw shit at the wall to see what sticks and you get your items back. We’re one of the only servers that do this. Also while gunfights are healthy and play a big role in gang beef I also think we just need to ban people that only log on and play to clap.

[sakkama]

hey, i agree with everything ash said and i'd like to add some points.
first i dont wanna anyone to misunderstand me, i like meridians aka risk and the whole team and i really appreciate the effort they put into creating such a good activities for us, we already had 3 or even more scenes and thats only for OTF, its even more if we include other factions, this clearly shows that they're doing a great job.
however, do yall think this alone will revive crim rp in general ? personally i dont think so, this kind of content works better when there is already a large crim player base.
so what does crim really need ? in my opinion its just simple things not only big development updates. the major issue i see is the amount of rules and limitations, back in the days in ecrp, one of the best things was that we had basic rules which gave us a lot of freedom to create rp without feeling restricted, when i got banned in early 2021 and came back in 2024 i noticed a huge increase in rules and limitations around crim rp, also that doesnt mean the staff team did a bad job updating the rules, they may have worked well for a certain period of time but now it might be the time to review and update them again.

^^quick personal opinion (i know this might not be the right place but ill still say it): i much prefer the old HUD and the old injury animation etc, they were way better, though im not sure what everyone else thinks.

[Hubie]

I agree with everything here except removing the backup breach rule. I do believe the rule should be adjusted/ changed but it shouldn’t be entirely removed, i feel if that rule is removed entirely, the server may get worse than it already has. Would just be 3 gangs pushing 1 so they can “win”. 

[Earl Mud]

I think tweaking 'escalation' will fix a lot of the rule checklist issues. I don't want to randomly get domed from a bush where I had no idea someone was at but if someone pulls up with a heavy I should know I'm being robbed or fighting without being explicitly told so. We have too many desync and voip issues to where people feel they gotta reissue demands cause the one time they dont and its not heard they get a strike. Keep in mind it still needs to make sense. If my back is to someone and they point a gun that wouldn't be escalation cause I cant see them but if we are face to face and they pull a gun thats all that should be needed. 

Edited December 16, 2025 by Earl Mud

[Earl Mud]

20 minutes ago, Hubie said:

I agree with everything here except removing the backup breach rule. I do believe the rule should be adjusted/ changed but it shouldn’t be entirely removed, i feel if that rule is removed entirely, the server may get worse than it already has. Would just be 3 gangs pushing 1 so they can “win”. 

I think adjusted is fair. But if a gang is winning every fight and pushing everyone due to a numbers advantage it should be fair for other gangs to team on them for abusing the fact they feel invincible due to numbers game cause that gang is only pushing everyone cause they are ruleplaying knowing all gangs cant team on them. This would actually create more rp for allies being more in depth than we dont push each other for better taxes. It would also create more diversity in tactics in decisions on when and who to push instead of fuck it full send hit every gang cause I have 15 and all of them have 8 each. 

Edited December 16, 2025 by Earl Mud

[pooria]

I agree, backup breach rule is completely pointless right now, we either need to adjust it or completely remove it doesn't make sense for a dynamic role play server to have this rule in place.

[moment]

54 minutes ago, Hubie said:

I agree with everything here except removing the backup breach rule. I do believe the rule should be adjusted/ changed but it shouldn’t be entirely removed, i feel if that rule is removed entirely, the server may get worse than it already has. Would just be 3 gangs pushing 1 so they can “win”. 

I couldn't blame you and you are right on the concept of you don't want 3 gangs allied together to push 5 people in a lab for example it sucks, but at the same time we are in a position we are restricting people from hanging with each other during criminal activties + there's a cap on a faction. Something definetly has to be adjusted.

[moment]

The aim for this topic just to be clear is not to get more fights going easily or to get DM rights more easy access so you can start blast, that is not where im heading. 

I made this topic so we can create more roleplay for example if I want to pull up on ESM for my chararacter reasons, I can do so and face consequences depends on my action. Not I have to worry the next minute and get told "Save POV" for public robbery, the action my character is doing has already it's own consequences maybe it can lead to my death maybe I get ambushed etc.

[Earl Mud]

4 minutes ago, moment said:

I couldn't blame you and you are right on the concept of you don't want 3 gangs allied together to push 5 people in a lab for example it sucks, but at the same time we are in a position we are restricting people from hanging with each other during criminal activties + there's a cap on a faction. Something definetly has to be adjusted.

I think if it makes sense rp wise to ally push someone that should be fine. X gang has pushed Y and Z gang numerous times this week. Y and Z joik to push X. The stipulation should be it cant be used just to bully small gangs for sake of bullying small gangs unless that gang has continued to start crap with multiple gangs 

[Rem]

Server caters to big factions right now, new players don't have a lot of sense of direction (doing freelance jobs until they eventually quit) and only being able to rob around labs is incredibly boring and limiting RP.

 

[Hubie]

1 hour ago, moment said:

I couldn't blame you and you are right on the concept of you don't want 3 gangs allied together to push 5 people in a lab for example it sucks, but at the same time we are in a position we are restricting people from hanging with each other during criminal activties + there's a cap on a faction. Something definetly has to be adjusted.

Not necessarily.... you are still able to hold with other factions and your friends. The only thing the backup breach rule does is prevent you from seeking back up from other factions when you are in need of it. It's only stopping you from pushing with another faction, which I also don't entirely agree with, if 2 gangs are holding, in my opinion, 2 gangs should be able to push. This is just my opinion on things, removing the rule would be worse for everyone, adjusting it slightly will make a lot more people happy. 

[Tylerwalk]

24 minutes ago, Hubie said:

Not necessarily.... you are still able to hold with other factions and your friends. The only thing the backup breach rule does is prevent you from seeking back up from other factions when you are in need of it. It's only stopping you from pushing with another faction, which I also don't entirely agree with, if 2 gangs are holding, in my opinion, 2 gangs should be able to push. This is just my opinion on things, removing the rule would be worse for everyone, adjusting it slightly will make a lot more people happy. 

+1 I agree with everything, just think the rule needs to be adjusted.

[Jimmy Lynnch]

Demands should = DM rights. Tell me why I can be punished for shooting a guy who doesn't put his hands up when I ask him too

[Mortem]

+1 

I know FM added the Back Up Breach Rule in order to allow new gangs to have a chance against gangs teaming up however they have since:

- Made it easy for gangs to get Mk2s and heavys and APs 
- Introduced like 7 drugs that give you an advantage 
- Introduced the leveling system (for drugs among other things) which helps only people who can cook easily (big gangs).
- Guns jamming (not too familiar with this one but basically you need to get new guns and shit) 

How do any of these rules help new players? How do they motivate new players to play more? 

When Timmy the New Player tries to cook, and he gets robbed by a 10 man zerg who all have Mk2s, 100 APs, Heroin, Steroids, Marijuana, and Methodone, is he going to want to play anymore? 

Furthermore, Timmy makes less money than these players for cooking, and he likely only has a pistol.

At this point, back up breach only limits small gangs from teaming up, because big gangs are not going to be teaming up anyways.  It certainly does not stop big gangs from terrorising newer players, as the current state of Criminal RP has very high barriers to entry for new players (In my opinion). 


 

Edited December 17, 2025 by Mortem

[moment]

1 hour ago, Jimmy Lynnch said:

Demands should = DM rights. Tell me why I can be punished for shooting a guy who doesn't put his hands up when I ask him too

Amen brotherman

[BillyB]

I joined in 2020 and I think you've always had to be very careful around ensuring you follow the rules to the letter - I don't really think it's a bad thing but at the same time it does put me off engaging in certain roleplay. I do think the introduction of some  rules, such as spitting being included as gross rp and needing to ask for consent, are wrong and do takeaway from what was once a very fun and immersive environment. This is an 18+ game where in singleplayer you are able to get lap dances, kill cops, have sex with prostitutes and then kill them afterwards. Why are we censoring things so much?

I think what also made the problem worse was that I came from SAMP where it was much more like the wildwest, but it was really really fun.

However, you have to understand that with an aging playerbase people are naturally going to lose interest or not have the time to play anymore so you're going to see a new era of players - those who haven't experienced being killed on sight in SAMP or being called every slur under the sun. I believe a lot of the rules we have in place now are the result of this.

With that being said though, I do believe admins are doing more to try and help the creation of unique fun rp events rather than just the copy + paste labs rolling and gunfights.

 

Also - a lot of the new rules come as a result of people moaning because they lost a situation. A lot of people continue to engage in RP to win mentality, I don't care about being the richest or most powerful and that's how it should be; yeah it's great if you can get there but if you lose it through dumb actions, take that and roll with it. Ego problems

Edited December 17, 2025 by BillyB

[risk]

In regard to the Backup Breach rule, Faction Management was reviewing it as recently as yesterday. We are currently drafting a proposal to adjust the rule so that organizations can formally ally and bypass it under defined circumstances. Our goal is to have this finalized and approved for rollout by the end of January. With the holidays, timelines are more difficult than usual, and progress is taking longer than we would like.

Unfortunately, it is not as simple as removing the rule outright. While many players look back fondly on the days of Council, there are just as many who strongly disliked that period. Although those days are long behind us, a large portion of the player base still measures success largely through asset accumulation and progression. Assets remain a heavy point of focus because they take significant time to replace, far more than it takes to create meaningful or engaging stories.

A significant amount of staff effort, not limited to Faction Management, is focused on breaking up the monotony of the daily grind by introducing scenarios that encourage more dynamic roleplay. That said, I don't believe anyone in staff is under the illusion that this alone will solve the issue. What is ultimately needed is a broader cultural shift across the board where players prioritize creating enjoyable roleplay for everyone involved, not just their own faction. If that results in a gunfight where both sides feel the odds were fair and the outcome came down to skill, that is a success. If it results in an officer being downed during an arrest because they were caught off guard, that is a success. If it results in a criminal being detained and ultimately arrested after getting caught lacking and choosing to flee through the city at extreme speeds while carrying heavy weaponry, that is also a success. An in character loss does not have to signal the end of roleplay, nor should it immediately lead to rushing the scene or filing a report to recover items, which is something we see far too often.

Removing the Backup Breach rule entirely would create an environment where organizations can stack numbers and overwhelm others, leaving little opportunity for fair resistance unless players voluntarily self regulate. In some cases, even with lower server population, this is already an issue. Groups push areas together and rely on numerical advantage to secure wins, which is reflected in forum activity even under the current rule that permits pre planned activities.

Wanting to win is not inherently a problem, but balance is necessary to ensure a fair fighting chance for all sides, particularly as other areas of staff work toward making assets less of a predominant concern so players can engage in roleplay without the outcome being defined by the time lost to asset recovery.

That balance is why an adjustment to the rule, rather than its complete removal, is the first step Faction Management is taking. Should these adjustments lead to positive outcomes, Faction Management is open to revisiting the rule with the possibility of proposing a full removal. This will depend largely on player response and how the changes are utilized in practice.

As we've only recently begun discussing how to best adjust the rule, myself, @Lightninbolt9, and @pixiejewels are open to hearing suggestions that keep the above in mind. 

[moment]

6 minutes ago, risk said:

In regard to the Backup Breach rule, Faction Management was reviewing it as recently as yesterday. We are currently drafting a proposal to adjust the rule so that organizations can formally ally and bypass it under defined circumstances. Our goal is to have this finalized and approved for rollout by the end of January. With the holidays, timelines are more difficult than usual, and progress is taking longer than we would like.

Unfortunately, it is not as simple as removing the rule outright. While many players look back fondly on the days of Council, there are just as many who strongly disliked that period. Although those days are long behind us, a large portion of the player base still measures success largely through asset accumulation and progression. Assets remain a heavy point of focus because they take significant time to replace, far more than it takes to create meaningful or engaging stories.

A significant amount of staff effort, not limited to Faction Management, is focused on breaking up the monotony of the daily grind by introducing scenarios that encourage more dynamic roleplay. That said, I don't believe anyone in staff is under the illusion that this alone will solve the issue. What is ultimately needed is a broader cultural shift across the board where players prioritize creating enjoyable roleplay for everyone involved, not just their own faction. If that results in a gunfight where both sides feel the odds were fair and the outcome came down to skill, that is a success. If it results in an officer being downed during an arrest because they were caught off guard, that is a success. If it results in a criminal being detained and ultimately arrested after getting caught lacking and choosing to flee through the city at extreme speeds while carrying heavy weaponry, that is also a success. An in character loss does not have to signal the end of roleplay, nor should it immediately lead to rushing the scene or filing a report to recover items, which is something we see far too often.

Removing the Backup Breach rule entirely would create an environment where organizations can stack numbers and overwhelm others, leaving little opportunity for fair resistance unless players voluntarily self regulate. In some cases, even with lower server population, this is already an issue. Groups push areas together and rely on numerical advantage to secure wins, which is reflected in forum activity even under the current rule that permits pre planned activities.

Wanting to win is not inherently a problem, but balance is necessary to ensure a fair fighting chance for all sides, particularly as other areas of staff work toward making assets less of a predominant concern so players can engage in roleplay without the outcome being defined by the time lost to asset recovery.

That balance is why an adjustment to the rule, rather than its complete removal, is the first step Faction Management is taking. Should these adjustments lead to positive outcomes, Faction Management is open to revisiting the rule with the possibility of proposing a full removal. This will depend largely on player response and how the changes are utilized in practice.

As we've only recently begun discussing how to best adjust the rule, myself, @Lightninbolt9, and @pixiejewels are open to hearing suggestions that keep the above in mind. 

Thank you for the following feedback and giving us a perspective from a staff point of view and FM openly. We appreciate it, at least I do and regarding the DM rule and Player theft is there any discussions as well? Cause as of right now I'm pretty sure you can see multiple reports and situation where ruleplay is taking place in the middle of it.

[moment]

@risk

Also regarding the backup I think if let's say you bring 1 person outside the gang to roll labs or do any criminal activity with the rest of my gang, it should exceed the backup rule it's kind of sad you have to reject someone to spend time together. Unless you bring another whole gang then the whole backup rule should be valid.

[risk]

Both rules were discussed recently, shortly before the new hostage rules took effect. I do want to be clear that I do not speak on behalf of the Senior Team but myself, so I may not be able to provide every answer you're looking for. So with that disclaimer out of the way, in my personal opinion, many of the frustrations surrounding these rules stem from three recurring issues: people making assumptions rather than asking questions because they feel they will not receive satisfactory answers, misunderstandings about what the rules are intended to support, and viewing the server rules as a checklist rather than within the context of the bigger picture.

The purpose of the rules is not to limit roleplay to the point where criminals feel they cannot be criminals. They exist to prevent criminal activity from severely impacting the experience of players who are not actively trying to participate in that kind of roleplay. The rules are designed to support and encourage long term stories, not to cut it short through immediate escalation or killing over minor inconveniences or insults.

Deathmatching is a good example and I don't believe they need adjusted at this time. While demands alone do not automatically justify deathmatching, that does not mean demands can never lead there. They just must be supported by meaningful roleplay. The intent behind deathmatching rules is to prevent players from being killed without context, explanation, or escalation, and to prevent actions that are wildly unrealistic. For example - shooting someone simply for insulting you, when you have never met them before and there is no existing conflict, would not meet that standard. Knocking them out, however? Absolutely reasonable. In contrast, long standing conflict supported by repeated interactive escalation and motive can reasonably lead to lethal outcomes. 

The rules are not meant to remove consequences or conflict, but to ensure those consequences are grounded in roleplay that others can follow, respond to, and build from. Not every scenario needs to end immediately and in a lot of cases, factions have the most fun when they're able to work towards an end goal. 

As for player theft, that was changed along with the hostage rules. Risk versus reward is no longer a part of the consideration for player theft - instead, it continues to only take into consideration location, time of day, and realistic population. In practice, what that means is it is no longer a matter of "I knew they had XYZ, I wanted it," and now a matter of, "Am I willing to risk being caught in the middle of the day, in the middle of the street, to MAYBE get something?" or "Is a jail sentence and fine really worth the .50 I'd get off his back if I snatched it right here and now?"

When approaching it from a roleplay angle instead of an asset driven angle, in most cases the answer is no, you're not going to risk being caught robbing someone at Legion square at noon for a chance of nothing or a gun that you can have imported for $2,500. This change allows for more freedom in robbing people (you do not need to know for certain they have something if you stumble onto someone in the middle of the night in a quieter location, for example) while still protecting those who are either a) just trying to exist on the server and b) those who take reasonable precaution to hide their criminality.

Ultimately, the goal is for players to enjoy engaging with one another in ways that create scenarios worth continuing. When viewed through that lens, the rules are meant to support creativity and interaction rather than restrict them. They are not perfect, and they will continue to evolve as the server does, but their intent is to create space for meaningful interaction rather than to restrict it.

[moment]

1 hour ago, risk said:

Both rules were discussed recently, shortly before the new hostage rules took effect. I do want to be clear that I do not speak on behalf of the Senior Team but myself, so I may not be able to provide every answer you're looking for. So with that disclaimer out of the way, in my personal opinion, many of the frustrations surrounding these rules stem from three recurring issues: people making assumptions rather than asking questions because they feel they will not receive satisfactory answers, misunderstandings about what the rules are intended to support, and viewing the server rules as a checklist rather than within the context of the bigger picture.

The purpose of the rules is not to limit roleplay to the point where criminals feel they cannot be criminals. They exist to prevent criminal activity from severely impacting the experience of players who are not actively trying to participate in that kind of roleplay. The rules are designed to support and encourage long term stories, not to cut it short through immediate escalation or killing over minor inconveniences or insults.

Deathmatching is a good example and I don't believe they need adjusted at this time. While demands alone do not automatically justify deathmatching, that does not mean demands can never lead there. They just must be supported by meaningful roleplay. The intent behind deathmatching rules is to prevent players from being killed without context, explanation, or escalation, and to prevent actions that are wildly unrealistic. For example - shooting someone simply for insulting you, when you have never met them before and there is no existing conflict, would not meet that standard. Knocking them out, however? Absolutely reasonable. In contrast, long standing conflict supported by repeated interactive escalation and motive can reasonably lead to lethal outcomes. 

The rules are not meant to remove consequences or conflict, but to ensure those consequences are grounded in roleplay that others can follow, respond to, and build from. Not every scenario needs to end immediately and in a lot of cases, factions have the most fun when they're able to work towards an end goal. 

As for player theft, that was changed along with the hostage rules. Risk versus reward is no longer a part of the consideration for player theft - instead, it continues to only take into consideration location, time of day, and realistic population. In practice, what that means is it is no longer a matter of "I knew they had XYZ, I wanted it," and now a matter of, "Am I willing to risk being caught in the middle of the day, in the middle of the street, to MAYBE get something?" or "Is a jail sentence and fine really worth the .50 I'd get off his back if I snatched it right here and now?"

When approaching it from a roleplay angle instead of an asset driven angle, in most cases the answer is no, you're not going to risk being caught robbing someone at Legion square at noon for a chance of nothing or a gun that you can have imported for $2,500. This change allows for more freedom in robbing people (you do not need to know for certain they have something if you stumble onto someone in the middle of the night in a quieter location, for example) while still protecting those who are either a) just trying to exist on the server and b) those who take reasonable precaution to hide their criminality.

Ultimately, the goal is for players to enjoy engaging with one another in ways that create scenarios worth continuing. When viewed through that lens, the rules are meant to support creativity and interaction rather than restrict them. They are not perfect, and they will continue to evolve as the server does, but their intent is to create space for meaningful interaction rather than to restrict it.

I do get the points you have mentioned such as allowing certain part of the community to not be involved from certain criminals just for clothes or any belonging they have. But as in life you can't have everything good at the same time, every thing has its own pros and cons.

To be honest the fact that everyone in the server feels protected by the rules is a no bueno no matter what these two points you mentioned - a) just trying to exist on the server and b) those who take reasonable precaution to hide their criminality.
If you really want roleplay as the aim for the server was you need to let it evolve naturally, if you see other servers it's the only one that has much rules surrounding this. A character should never feel ultimately protected by the rules but instead it would create more roleplay from creating more allies, connections, friends etc. That's what I even experienced in the past, I had to make friends, make new allies to prosper any hard time for my character but now we are just relying on the rules - I know I can't get robbed anywhere I go unless I threat any enemy faction or do any harm to them. This should not be the case, not now, not ever - this is bad mentality that leads to "Save POV".

 

Another scenario that I like to share around where also mentioned last-longing scenarios RP, I'm up for all that if once again we didnt adapt the mentality to ruleplay such as follows:

- Kyle_Johnson robs Marcus_Smith for his assault rifle at Legion Square.

- Kyle_Johnson goes to a clothing store and changes outfit after the robbery.

Marcus_Smith sees Kyle_Johnson later on at Del Pierro Pier in broad daylight, you can't rob him you know why? Because appearently if we change clothes and dress differently it's Non-RP cause we can't assume or even when checking for their license we get told "Save POV - robbery in broad daylight" and people got punished for this, I've seen it happen. This is perfect definition of ruleplay and time and time again we let it happen.

In the end I feel like the rule should be tweaked that known criminals that perform criminal activites from day to day basis can be robbed anywhere and whenever they want, it's up to their character risk and consequences. If It's a criminal to a civilian then maybe can put some rule around it, but once again are we playing roleplay or we just playing a rule-set simulator.

Thank you for the help risk and your effort!

Edited December 17, 2025 by moment