How to make Law Enforcement Vehicles Fair and Balanced

[Demonmit1]

if entry level civilian jobs had multiple different types of vehicles to chose from, then sure. make it for everyone. but they don't. Law enforcement have multiple to switch to as a brand new member in the faction.

Edited October 2, 2024 by Demonmit1

[Demonmit1]

19 minutes ago, Spizor said:

How come? The suggestion entails that damaged vehicles shouldn't have the ability to be respawned straight away. Should be the same for all, or don't make the change at all.

this is why. Law enforcement have more than enough selection to support losing access to one for a few minutes if they wreck it. (BTW this is what a cadet can spawn)



Edit: if i remember correctly, at least half of those are ICly allowed to be accessed by a cadet.

Edited October 2, 2024 by Demonmit1

[Spizor]

This will be my last comment on this suggestion as I already gave my opinions and input. To give you some facts, most of the cruisers that someone can spawn by "script", cannot actually be spawned per IC policy. 70-80% of the cars on the list/screenshot you provided cannot be used by a cadet or even a regular officer I.

[addybeta]

5 hours ago, SquirtleSquad said:

There wouldn't be RPly only two. You only see two in a pursuit due to IC protocols. Don't mix up protocols for what would be ICly. Same with Heli's.

I dont know what kind of crazy funding PD has, but SD RPly only has 2 shinobis and 2 jugulars. Which would technically make it powergaming to instantly fix the vehicle after going to the station if both are already out. 

This is why it is important for me as a LEO player, that we address this issue, since I strongly believe that it is overpowered to hot-swap vehicles during pursuits.

[Blazendary]

+1

 

Honestly if they wanna make it simpler, make it NRP for LEO to switch cruisers/repair mid pursuit(switching vehicles is a dif thing ik)

[Quietthecutie]

15 minutes ago, addybeta said:

I dont know what kind of crazy funding PD has, but SD RPly only has 2 shinobis and 2 jugulars. Which would technically make it powergaming to instantly fix the vehicle after going to the station if both are already out. 

This is why it is important for me as a LEO player, that we address this issue, since I strongly believe that it is overpowered to hot-swap vehicles during pursuits.

What they are talking about is the ability to pull out only 2 jugs and 2 shinobis at any given time. this dosent mean the department only has 2 of each in their depots. 

This is an important distinction i think needs clarified. the difference between ooc/ic regulations within LEO departments and what is the realistic facts of how these departments should work. again, realistically, both departments would have several of each type of vehicle, Tarvs, brickades, shinobis, jugulars, whatever. the depots for both departments would have several of these vehicles standing by. but Rply we can only have 2 out at any given time and at least in SD, only deployed with clear reasoning and authorisation. 

In brief, in the current ruleset, we can only deploy 2 of each currently, but theres nothing in the ruleset that says these are the ONLY vehicles of this type we possess. as spizor has frequently referenced, rply we have more in storage. this is what squirtle is talking about, and they are correct. If you have any evidence to the contrary, please share it because i certainly have never seen it.

Edited October 2, 2024 by Quietthecutie

[addybeta]

5 minutes ago, Quietthecutie said:

What they are talking about is the ability to pull out only 2 jugs and 2 shinobis at any given time. this dosent mean the department only has 2 of each in their depots. 

This is an important distinction i think needs clarified. the difference between ooc/ic regulations within LEO departments and what is the realistic facts of how these departments should work. again, realistically, both departments would have several of each type of vehicle, Tarvs, brickades, shinobis, jugulars, whatever. the depots for both departments would have several of these vehicles standing by. but Rply we can only have 2 out at any given time and at least in SD, only deployed with clear reasoning and authorisation. 

In brief, in the current ruleset, we can only deploy 2 of each currently, but theres nothing in the ruleset that says these are the ONLY vehicles of this type we possess. as spizor has frequently referenced, rply we have more in storage. this is what squirtle is talking about, and they are correct. If you have any evidence to the contrary, please share it.

No, SD RPly ONLY has 2 jugulars and 2 shinobis. Source: SD Command staff.

[Quietthecutie]

1 minute ago, addybeta said:

No, SD RPly ONLY has 2 jugulars and 2 shinobis. Source: SD Command staff.

If thats correct and we only have 2 of each, first off we are heavily underfunded for covering an entire state, and secondly then you are absolutely correct, hotswapping should be banned and a timer should be immediately introduced to reflect this.

[PufferBulletin]

4 hours ago, Demonmit1 said:

this is why. Law enforcement have more than enough selection to support losing access to one for a few minutes if they wreck it. (BTW this is what a cadet can spawn)



Edit: if i remember correctly, at least half of those are ICly allowed to be accessed by a cadet.

FYI, cadet can spawn these script wise, although he would have repercussions spawning 95% of these... to add even further, most of police officers can not use such vehicles like kamacho, gauntlet bike without proper approval which is mostly above POII and even more without certifications... so you are giving a false narrative...

 

But yeah, I do agree that vehicles should be repaired through mechanics as everyone else is, this would solve the issues that the topic is raising.

Edited October 2, 2024 by PufferBulletin

[Quietthecutie]

9 minutes ago, PufferBulletin said:

FYI, cadet can spawn these script wise, although he would have repercussions spawning 95% of these... to add even further, most of police officers can not use such vehicles like kamacho, gauntlet bike without proper approval which is mostly above POII and even more without certifications... so you are giving a false narrative...

 

But yeah, I do agree that vehicles should be repaired through mechanics as everyone else is, this would solve the issues that the topic is raising.

basically this, 

whilst not wanna get into "find out ic" territory, the amount of LEOs who can actually pull these vehicles is way smaller than most non LEOs believe. you have to pass numerous promotions and trainings to do this.

This is why OPs argument might not quite ring true for me, cus honestly alot of the time we cant even pull a second vehicle for lack of persons authorised to drive it...

Edited October 2, 2024 by Quietthecutie

[Demonmit1]

3 minutes ago, PufferBulletin said:

FYI, cadet can spawn these script wise, although he would have repercussions spawning 95% of these...

Buffalo, all three cruisers, scout, stanier, transporter were all allowed for me to use in ADAM patrols as a cadet after i passed the driving course. 

[Quietthecutie]

3 minutes ago, Demonmit1 said:

Buffalo, all three cruisers, scout, stanier, transporter were all allowed for me to use in ADAM patrols as a cadet after i passed the driving course. 

None of these vehicles are really the main gripe of this suggestion, which is i believe based around shinobis and jugulars being hotswapped. again, lets clarifiy what this suggestion is asking for.

[Demonmit1]

3 minutes ago, Quietthecutie said:

None of these vehicles are really the main gripe of this suggestion, which is i believe based around shinobis and jugulars being hotswapped. again, lets clarifiy what this suggestion is asking for.

its not a problem with any of the vehicles, its proving a point that law enforcement have more than enough vehicles to sustain having to lose access for a few minutes to a specific model they get damaged. Others were arguing they have infinite amounts of every cruiser to justify being able to delete and respawn STX's over and over again. but they dont use any of their other cruisers. they have enough other models to support the suggestion.

its not about any specific cruiser/highspeed, its about if you get a specific vehicle damaged, you shouldnt be allowed to despawn and respawn it instantly. there's plenty of options available to switch if you need another vehicle quickly.

Edited October 2, 2024 by Demonmit1

[Quietthecutie]

5 minutes ago, Demonmit1 said:

its not a problem with any of the vehicles, its proving a point that law enforcement have more than enough vehicles to sustain having to lose access for a few minutes to a specific model they get damaged. Others were arguing they have infinite amounts of every cruiser to justify being able to delete and respawn STX's over and over again. but they dont use any of their other cruisers. they have enough other models to support the suggestion.

Okay so lets get to the brunt of it because i dont wanna go around and around in an endless circlejerk. what do you actually want. what changes would you like to see. who would be responsible for it?

Lets be specific because honestly this argument has been going around for years in one form or another.

And that's not to say you haven't presented a good argument. you have. but as is so often common on forums the lens of the argument has ballooned significantly since the beginning. so i just want OP to bring it back on point.

What are we actually asking for. is it doable, and who would see to it?

Edited October 2, 2024 by Quietthecutie

[Demonmit1]

Just now, Quietthecutie said:

Okay so lets get to the brunt of it because i dont wanna go around and around in an endless circlejerk. what do you actually want. what changes would you like to see. who would be responsible for it?

a timer on /delcruiser and respawning the same cruiser model if it was damaged, be it engine damage or popped tires. thats the entirety of the suggestion.

you break any cruiser, you cant /delcruiser and spawn that same model for a set amount of time. 

 

[Quietthecutie]

wonderful. i look forward to Staff weighing in on this as i believe all parties have had a good debate.

 

[tigerpet15]

+1

I think ther eshould be added rule to stop LEOs swapping cars in the pursuit. 

[tigerpet15]

LEOs should have an option to go to mechanics shop and repair their car (for the department money) what would give them the option to continue using their car instead of timer and creat new RP opportunities.

[NotOnlyAce]

19 hours ago, Demonmit1 said:

Law enforcement have multiple to switch to as a brand new member in the faction.

19 hours ago, Demonmit1 said:

BTW this is what a cadet can spawn)

You have been a cadet and should know that a cadet can absolutely not spawn most of these vehicles. Only standard patrol vehicles when he is with another officer. So, you are wrong, a brand new faction member cannot spawn all those vehicles and needs to go through extensive training that last for a month just to spawn standard patrol cruisers, and then a few more months to get any additonal tools.

[Demonmit1]

4 hours ago, NotOnlyAce said:

You have been a cadet and should know that a cadet can absolutely not spawn most of these vehicles. Only standard patrol vehicles when he is with another officer. So, you are wrong, a brand new faction member cannot spawn all those vehicles and needs to go through extensive training that last for a month just to spawn standard patrol cruisers, and then a few more months to get any additonal tools.

you're also missing the entirety of the context of that post.

someone else argued every faction that has the ability to spawn cars should be included in this suggestion, not just law enforcement. other factions only allow a single vehicle for a new faction member. law enforcement doesnt.

if a junior advertiser at Weazel is the only one clocked on, and their only vehicle they have access to, the Weazel Rumpo, gets vandalized, should they just be told to get fucked and not do their job of responding to ad requests or be able to go to blip requests? no. factions that dont pursue criminals shouldnt have to have a gameplay balance of not being allowed to instantly /delcruiser and spawn a new one.

as a Cadet, theres a single vehicle, the transporter, you're allowed to use specifically to only drive to impound. but there are seven vehicles a cadet can use and drive basically off the bat during training. law enforcement has enough vehicle selection from trainee to chief to support losing access to one for a few minutes if they park it when very damaged. thats the argument. understand the context.

Edited October 3, 2024 by Demonmit1

[NotOnlyAce]

6 hours ago, Demonmit1 said:

if a junior advertiser at Weazel is the only one clocked on, and their only vehicle they have access to

I mean, yeah, Weazel doesn't chase things. PD needs different vehicles and tools. Can't have only crown vic and be like oh womp womp he has a BF400, it needs to have more vehicles and why is there a problem to have rules IC about having access to them.

[Demonmit1]

2 hours ago, NotOnlyAce said:

I mean, yeah, Weazel doesn't chase things. PD needs different vehicles and tools. Can't have only crown vic and be like oh womp womp he has a BF400, it needs to have more vehicles and why is there a problem to have rules IC about having access to them.

i dont understand what part of the suggestion you dont understand?
theres nothing in the suggestion saying cops shouldnt have access to the vehicles and assets they need to do their jobs, and there's nothing in the suggestion that would take vehicles or assets away from police either.

if you break a cruiser, you cant /delcruiser and spawn that same model for a set amount of time preventing instant repairs.  thats the entirety of the suggestion.

Edited October 3, 2024 by Demonmit1

[Bala]

It doesn't really solve anything because at the point your logic falls apart when there are two different types of Police Scout (soon to be 3) and two different types of Buffalo STX people can use.

That said, if people really want to see this addressed in some way, just charge the faction treasury for the amount of repair needed. We're not going to go bankrupt and it's all Lewis' spawned pocket money but still.

[SkuLLar]

I'll start off with the fact that suggestions for improvement are always a great sign of enthusiasm and love for the server (which is amazing to see). The suggestion can work in casual settings, but in this specific situation, I think it might not be the best.

Look, realistically, police departments in urban areas have hundreds of vehicles. Wrecking one is barely a scratch to such a massive organization. We need to understand that PD has to be overpowered - they're backed by the government.

PD should be the strongest organization with access to guns, vehicles, and tools to keep civilians safe. Criminals need to be more diligent and think strategically. Limiting PD for reckless driving is flawed logic because you're trying to equate them with criminals, which doesn't work.

Criminals should focus on avoiding PD entirely. If they end up in a situation with PD, it's usually their own fault for facing such a powerful entity. PD should drive recklessly when chasing dangerous suspects, especially if public safety is at risk.

This suggestion for "balance" is misplaced. Criminals should outsmart PD through intelligence and skill, not artificial limitations. PD should always have the upper hand initially. It's up to criminals to plan how to level the playing field, but the core dynamic remains: avoid PD at all costs or have a solid plan to escape.

The idea of timeouts for damaged PD vehicles is irrelevant. Their resources are vast, and minor setbacks won't impact their overall effectiveness.

[EimaTrG]

So I have been reading through most of the replies under this topic and would like to express my opinion on the matter even if it's a small one.

Why not just add the timer that mechanics have when they fix vehicles to all factions depending on how destroyed they are, the script itself already calculates how much the car is destroyed and adds time or reduces time depending on the state of the vehicle (tires get insta fixed), now on the topic of PD having a lot of vehicles and almost infinite supply of vehicles in their depot - you dont just park your car outside in the open while it's half destroyed you take it in to the garage or hand it off to someone and its brought out or you bring it out yourself, plus getting everything set up to your standing in a new cruiser is another point but more of RP side but still takes time irl if we want to get into it.

 

Realistically just add some sort of timer while pulling out a vehicle even if it's 1-3 min because it takes time for the vehicle to be brought out and getting acclimated to the car like changing the seat so you can see the road putting your gun in the rack and setting up MDC (for LEOs), this implementation then can be given to all factions that spawn their vehicles and DCC from my experience always do this RP (Check List)

Edited October 9, 2024 by EimaTrG