Criminal Usage For LifeInvader

[Melody Frey]

So currently it is against the rules to use a private group to relay information related to things such as frequencies, backup, or illegal trades. Personally I would like to see this changed, as of right now LSPD can access LiveInvader and get warrants to access these things. I believe it would be fair for criminals to use LifeInvader at their own risk and allow things to develop naturally on there, and bringing the criminal scene to LifeInvader would assist in LifeInvader's growth as well.

TL;DR

PD can access LifeInvader for stuff as it is, why not allow criminals to take the risk?

"No illegal activities can be conducted in private groups on life invader, such as sharing radio frequencies used for criminal activities, requesting backup, and selling/buying weapons/drugs."

[Cup]

+1 if they can already access it why not

[Chris_]

+1 
also crazy idea. they could make group chats something on the normal phone

[HobGoblin]

3 hours ago, Melody Frey said:

PD can access LifeInvader for stuff as it is, why not allow criminals to take the risk?

If they can access the contents of the groups I don't see an issue. The only problem that will arise could be the need for a high-ranking admin to access this information which is not easy to get when needed.

[Ranger]

This was brought up in a recent staff meeting and there were mentions of reworking Life Invader rules - I'll bump it to the team again when I have time, I can't promise a time/date on this but if it's changed there will most likely be an announcement made.

[Apex]

Life invader pagers would go crazy considering you can access it from your irl phone 

[Phantas]

@PhenomenalXhopefully they dont get a warrant for our discord dms 

[Pazz]

Seems fine to me, but there's a difference between closed groups and public pages that require active moderation.

For what it's worth, the "LSPD can access LifeInvader stuff for what it is" is a bit misleading, jumping through the hoops of evidence gathering, proceeding to submit said evidence for review by a judge, getting a search warrant signed, then reach out to high-ranking staff members to assist with RP only to get the name of the person who created a public page because of impersonation is not really comparable to that of entirely closed-off pages used for (organized) crime entirely inaccessible to law enforcement (there's no feasible, reasonable way to gain access; you can't make throwaway accounts because they're bound to characters, and "snitching" besides people who value roleplay isn't something that can just be done either, because of how it affects players' standing OOC with friends), they're just not the same, and that context seems very relevant to me when you're using it as the entire foundation of the "if they can, why can't we" argument.

I'm not opposed to LifeInvader use for criminal activity, even with the argument of being able to access it outside of the game and away from a computer, the entire mantra of "flying out of the city" is ridiculous, no one is "flying out of the city" every 6-12 hours, no matter the always traveling billionaire persona they want to portray. It can reasonably be assumed that characters are in their homes when players aren't actively on the server, so that'd be that as far as using the platform while away from the game. 

Moderation is an issue, which is why there is no chat feature or anything else. I don't know about the logs accessible to accounts with admin status on LifeInvader, but if they're not great, then you can do whatever you want on the website, mixing, metagaming, anything, delete it, and face no repercussions. That means that every single closed, private page needs to be extensively moderated which feels unreasonable to the staff team.

It just shouldn't take away from the opportunities for all groups, legal and illegal, in the game itself. If a balance can be found between staff and rule enforcement, illegal activity, and law enforcement, I'm all for it.

 

Edited September 26, 2023 by Pazz

[Phantas]

6 minutes ago, Pazz said:

Seems fine to me, but there's a difference between closed groups and public pages that require active moderation.

For what it's worth, the "LSPD can access LifeInvader stuff for what it is" is a bit misleading, jumping through the hoops of evidence gathering, proceeding to submit said evidence for review by a judge, getting a search warrant signed, then reach out to high-ranking staff members to assist with RP only to get the name of the person who created a public page because of impersonation is not really comparable to that of entirely closed-off pages used for (organized) crime entirely inaccessible to law enforcement (there's no feasible, reasonable way to gain access; you can't make throwaway accounts because they're bound to characters, and "snitching" besides people who value roleplay isn't something that can just be done either, because of how it affects players' standing OOC with friends), they're just not the same, and that context seems very relevant to me when you're using it as the entire foundation of the "if they can, why can't we" argument.

I'm not opposed to LifeInvader use for criminal activity, even with the argument of being able to access it outside of the game and away from a computer, the entire mantra of "flying out of the city" is ridiculous, no one is "flying out of the city" every 6-12 hours, no matter the always traveling billionaire persona they want to portray. It can reasonably be assumed that characters are in their homes when players aren't actively on the server, so that'd be that as far as using the platform while away from the game. 

Moderation is an issue, which is why there is no chat feature or anything else. I don't know about the logs accessible to accounts with admin status on LifeInvader, but if they're not great, then you can do whatever you want on the website, mixing, metagaming, anything, delete it, and face no repercussions. That means that every single closed, private page needs to be extensively moderated which feels unreasonable to the staff team.

If a balance can be found between staff and rule enforcement, illegal activity, and law enforcement, I'm all for it.

 

just make it a benfit of the f4 tier system that fm have introduced for criminal groups @Bakmeel 
after thought: it be very similar to how legal factions have those ic channels in there discords for IC announcements and where frequencies are posted. If you can trust one section of the community why can't anther section of it be trusted as well? its not like they would go unmonitored by staff. If anything criminals would be more afraid to break guidelines set by fm in fear of losing tiers they grinded for and rewards they earned. 

Edited September 26, 2023 by Phantas

[Pazz]

On 9/26/2023 at 11:08 AM, Phantas said:

just make it a benfit of the f4 tier system that fm have introduced for criminal groups @Bakmeel 
after thought: it be very similar to how legal factions have those ic channels in there discords for IC announcements and where frequencies are posted. If you can trust one section of the community why can't anther section of it be trusted as well? its not like they would go unmonitored by staff. If anything criminals would be more afraid to break guidelines set by fm in fear of losing tiers they grinded for and rewards they earned. 

With that comparison in mind, it'd still require the faction handlers and server management to have access to the page and whatever moderation and logging features come with it, similar to the access of legal faction management and an abundance of senior staff members and management to the singular IC notice channel of legal factions. 

Edited September 27, 2023 by Pazz

[Quietthecutie]

On 9/26/2023 at 7:11 AM, Apex said:

Life invader pagers would go crazy considering you can access it from your irl phone 

I personally would see that as an absolute win. we want activity on life invader and being able to have some kind of influence on the city/organise things for when you're in game later/keep up with IC activities will only add to the depth of RP ops.

 

 

On 9/26/2023 at 10:04 AM, Pazz said:

Seems fine to me, but there's a difference between closed groups and public pages that require active moderation.

For what it's worth, the "LSPD can access LifeInvader stuff for what it is" is a bit misleading, jumping through the hoops of evidence gathering, proceeding to submit said evidence for review by a judge, getting a search warrant signed, then reach out to high-ranking staff members to assist with RP only to get the name of the person who created a public page because of impersonation is not really comparable to that of entirely closed-off pages used for (organized) crime entirely inaccessible to law enforcement (there's no feasible, reasonable way to gain access; you can't make throwaway accounts because they're bound to characters, and "snitching" besides people who value roleplay isn't something that can just be done either, because of how it affects players' standing OOC with friends), they're just not the same, and that context seems very relevant to me when you're using it as the entire foundation of the "if they can, why can't we" argument.

I'm not opposed to LifeInvader use for criminal activity, even with the argument of being able to access it outside of the game and away from a computer, the entire mantra of "flying out of the city" is ridiculous, no one is "flying out of the city" every 6-12 hours, no matter the always traveling billionaire persona they want to portray. It can reasonably be assumed that characters are in their homes when players aren't actively on the server, so that'd be that as far as using the platform while away from the game. 

Moderation is an issue, which is why there is no chat feature or anything else. I don't know about the logs accessible to accounts with admin status on LifeInvader, but if they're not great, then you can do whatever you want on the website, mixing, metagaming, anything, delete it, and face no repercussions. That means that every single closed, private page needs to be extensively moderated which feels unreasonable to the staff team.

It just shouldn't take away from the opportunities for all groups, legal and illegal, in the game itself. If a balance can be found between staff and rule enforcement, illegal activity, and law enforcement, I'm all for it.

 

idk where the whole flying in/out of the city rant came from, i think its more just a turn of phrase that became common than anything.

Other than that, yeah, these are probably all the reasons why this isnt already a thing. the amount of time it would take to code and set up group chats, private and public networks, it would take a hecking long time and then theres the question of moderating such a tool. ATM there would be too much red tape for LEOs to effectively obtain warrants in an effective period of time. how do we solve that? allow LEOs the right to go through life invader on probable cause? cant see anyone being happy about that...

Many questions to be answered... 

[Quietthecutie]

On 9/26/2023 at 10:08 AM, Phantas said:

just make it a benfit of the f4 tier system that fm have introduced for criminal groups @Bakmeel 
after thought: it be very similar to how legal factions have those ic channels in there discords for IC announcements and where frequencies are posted. If you can trust one section of the community why can't anther section of it be trusted as well? its not like they would go unmonitored by staff. If anything criminals would be more afraid to break guidelines set by fm in fear of losing tiers they grinded for and rewards they earned. 

Theres a Vein of truth to that, but i dont think its a matter of "trust." Civ organisations have alot more paperwork and activity requirements than gangs, shit has to stay organised in that setting otherwise quality of service goes down and the entire city would suffer. Gang activity is generally more off the cuff but for the large, exceptional RP ops where youre generally in contact with admins for perms anyways.

[Gaz.]

LifeInvader is a social media platform that would realiatically RPly have hundreds of moderation staff and some sort of flagging system that would detect illegal discussions happening. I think it would be Non RP to be able to use a platform such as this to discuss such activities without being caught almost immediately.

[Cyberinho]

5 hours ago, Gaz. said:

LifeInvader is a social media platform that would realiatically RPly have hundreds of moderation staff and some sort of flagging system that would detect illegal discussions happening. I think it would be Non RP to be able to use a platform such as this to discuss such activities without being caught almost immediately.

*Reddit, Telegram, Facebook, Instagram, Discord and literally every platform ever being/been used for drug sales enters the chat*

[Quietthecutie]

1 minute ago, Cyberinho said:

*Reddit, Telegram, Facebook, Instagram, Discord and literally every platform ever being/been used for drug sales enters the chat*

ye was gonna say, you know how irl crime is commed, right? lol.

If this was to go ahead....perhaps the middle ground would be some kind of buyable item that allows your phone to access criminal networks with the right 4 digit code? like a slapdash simplistic version of TOR

Edited October 7, 2023 by Quietthecutie

[Puzzling]

I mean I've done weazel ads with cyphers in them that people knew how to decode, just make a business page and act like you are opening up and have some sort of cypher and its an easy thing to do  

[Ranger]

Hello, please see the latest rules changelog regarding Lifeinvader for more information. Specifically covering this topic;

(Updated) Bullet Point #1:

• OLD: No illegal activities can be conducted in private groups on life invader, such as sharing radio frequencies used for criminal activities, requesting backup, and selling/buying weapons/drugs.

• NEW: No illegal activities can be conducted in private groups on Lifeinvader such as requesting backup and/or selling/buying weapons/drugs.

• Clarifications (Lifeinvader):

• Point #1: After the relaunch of Lifeinvader we as a staff team wanted to reevaluate the rules to ensure that they are updated and fit for the current state of the server and the roleplay environment that we aim to provide on Eclipse Roleplay. After discussions about removing this point fully or keeping it as it is, a compromise was made where we believe it is in the best interest of the roleplay environment to keep these interactions in-game rather than on a platform that anyone can use whilst not actually online on the server. The point made about sharing frequencies was removed as sharing a radio frequency in itself is not a crime.

Locked & Archived.