Change in wording for General Rule #7 (IC and OOC Interactions)

[spectral.nova]

Hello,
I’d like to suggest a change in the wording of the Offensive Language, Sexual, Torture, or Disgusting Roleplay of Rule #7 found under General Rules. Currently, the rule reads as follows:

Quote

 

Players are only allowed to engage in sexual, torture, or disgusting roleplay if all players involved including witnesses give prior OOC consent. Such roleplay should therefore not be held in public areas or areas where players commonly visit, e.g., prison/jail.

Usage of ethnic and/or LGBT+ related slurs is considered disgusting roleplay and all parties involved must give prior OOC consent before it can be done. In addition, it must make roleplay sense for your character to want to use any racial slurs In Character.

Racism Out-of-Character is strictly forbidden. 

Players using offensive language excessively In-Character through text or VOIP must stop if a player asks for it Out-of-Character. Players are not permitted to use offensive language Out-of-Character to others.

 

I would like to focus here primarily on the second paragraph. The main issue that I have with this rule as it’s currently written is the level of specificity it requires for it to count. Though it’s important that ethnic and/or LGBT+ related slurs are considered disgusting roleplay and require prior consent, there are many other forms of discriminatory language that I feel this rule should also apply to. 

I think it would be better to have more of an umbrella statement against IC hate speech as a whole for situations without the OOC consent of everyone involved. This would help to avoid many very uncomfortable situations that impact the mental wellbeing of many members of our community on an OOC level. 

I don’t feel like sexist, homophobic, transphobic, racist, ableist, etc. comments are appropriate to make, even IC, without the explicit prior consent from everyone in the area. I also feel like the part about it needing to make RP sense for your character to want to use a racial slur IC should be broadened for the same reasons stated above. Regardless of it being in character or not, a lot of the time these comments are made in a way that adds little to no value to the roleplay and are just used as a cop-out for creative insults by just resorting to harmful stereotypes and prejudice. (And a lot of the time, it feels like the people making these comments likely feel the same way OOC which makes these situations extra uncomfortable/upsetting)

I understand that some may argue that these types of comments exist in the real world, but the thing is… RP isn’t the real world. This server is a place myself and many other people go as a form of escapism; I, and many others, don’t need to be constantly confronted with the same kind of oppression and hateful comments we do in the real world here. 

There have been countless times where really offensive prejudiced comments have been made towards myself and others around me and I’ve felt entirely helpless in doing anything to stop it. At the end of the day, I just want this community to feel safer and more welcoming for everyone, which I don’t believe is fully possible with the rules worded as-is.

Thank you for taking the time to read this suggestion and I hope you’ll at the very least give it some thought and consideration.

TLDR: I think the rule on offensive language and disgusting roleplay should be reworded to be less specific so it can apply to more types of hate speech other than just specific slurs. Right now, it leaves room for too much homophobia, transphobia, sexism, racism, ableism, etc. without requiring any form of prior OOC consent from all parties involved.

[RAttlesnake7473]

-1 if you don’t like what someone says either leave the area or ask in OOC for them to stop

[Soupiestfork]

+1 this is a great idea and there are too many small minded people who skirt the ruling because of this.

[weaver]

+1 I think this would be awesome particularly to ensure that we aren't in uncomfortable situations that people don't listen after you've told them OOC to stop and that you're uncomfortable with their behavior

[TechnoTheft]

+1 This would make things so much better in situations where people rule play to avoid getting in trouble but will still use very hurtful and unnecessary remarks directed towards the community. I agree with this and it would 100% help us from having to be forced into rp situations we wouldn't want to rp!

[scuffedRey]

+1 I think this is good for creating a safer space on the server and hopefully running into less people who are trying to just to offend

[Jhin_moon]

+1 good idea im with this 100%

[JordanJustJordan]

+1 too many people abuse the wording of the rules this change is a must have.

[Pumpkin]

+1 100% agree this would help massively and be a great change in the community 

[Nubbsauce]

+1 This same rule was applied with people making chars to say the n-word, and it should be applied across the board. Even if it is just RP, we are here to have fun and roleplay, not be brought down and discouraged from enjoying the game and community.

[CameronSquida]

+1 This is definitely needed. I cannot explain how many times I've heard of such disgusting language. i understand its RP but theres a limit to what should be allowed.

[Fishy941]

+1

 

I personally believe a lot of these type of insults are used as they are easily come by and only used to really try and bring offence to the individual on an ooc level. I believe these type of comments have no place in the server.

As a member of a mechanics faction I have seen some people referring to Mechanics with extremely derogatory LGBT insults which wouldn't fly IRL due to them having to clock off or being a little slow working on a car, so I am unsure why they think they should in the RP world of Los Santos.

Everyone is here to have fun and I believe allowing this type of bigotry to continue is to isolate a large portion of the community. I also believe the OOC racism rule should be reworded to include these type of slurs against all groups.

-Fishy941

Edited July 25, 2023 by Fishy941
Fixing some wording

[FarmerJesus]

+1

 

[JakeFromStatefarm]

+1 This is what we need I have met a ton of people who just use hate speech and using broad language so they can skate by the rules enough so if we broaden it the community will feel more inclusive.

[Harveyyy]

The thing is, it's a grey area - someone might say something that you might find to be a hateful comment, but in their view, it's just a personal opinion, or it was said without malicious intent. That's when you're supposed to ask them to stop in OOC chat and that only applies to comments that 'you' believe to be hateful speech. Obviously if someone is shouting LGBTQ slurs, you can report them as it would be a direct breach of the rule. If someone is refusing to stop, then they'll receive a punishment for their behavior.

Ultimately, all situations are reviewed by staff on a case-by-case basis and staff have the final say to either deem them as appropriate or not. I think the rule is fine and has served its purpose since it was implemented.

[Kellie]

+1 I think this would be a great addition. I play as a mechanic and the amount of people blatantly insulting me or being rude to me is way above what should be considered normal. I have worked in retail before and the amount of people insulting me over nothing, using sexist comments, is way higher than it should be. I have to listen to sexist comments about me every day, people openly talking about my character's "assets" in ways that nobody would do in a mostly professional environment.

[Tommy carter]

+1 the stuff i seen and heard is disgusting and changes need to be made

[Nubbsauce]

4 hours ago, Harveyyy said:

The thing is, it's a grey area - someone might say something that you might find to be a hateful comment, but in their view, it's just a personal opinion, or it was said without malicious intent. That's when you're supposed to ask them to stop in OOC chat and that only applies to comments that 'you' believe to be hateful speech. Obviously if someone is shouting LGBTQ slurs, you can report them as it would be a direct breach of the rule. If someone is refusing to stop, then they'll receive a punishment for their behavior.

Ultimately, all situations are reviewed by staff on a case-by-case basis and staff have the final say to either deem them as appropriate or not. I think the rule is fine and has served its purpose since it was implemented.

Then the same could be said against the racial slurs thing. But it got out of hand and eventually was just no longer allowed. The same thing is happening again. 

[Lizarda]

+1 far too often I've seen someone be hateful to another with no consent, then fall back on poor excuses

[idgafashlee]

+1
More times than not these comments are unnecessary and provide nothing to any roleplay happening in the moment. If someone truly believes the comments they are making (whether they be homophobic, transphobic, sexist, racist, etc.) fits their character and "makes sense" for the scenario, they should have no issue asking everyone for consent.

[PimpDaddyKim]

+1 The amount of times I have ran into people being outright sexist, homophobic, transphobic, etc in this game is awful. The fact that so many of us have to deal with that IRL just to come home and want to play something fun and have to turn around and have it spewed into our face again just sucks. I have never had any of them ask ooc for permission to do so either.. I think a change to the rule would benefit a lot of people!

[Requiem]

I agree that if someone is doing nothing but being hateful on an OOC level, then its a problem. If its kept IC and they have no ill intent behind it, and its just for RP, I don't feel we should restrict speech any further. We don't want to have people fearful of what they can and can't say while playing having them scared of catching a punishment for something they didn't even feel was negative in any manner. Anyone can find almost anything offensive in some way, and the line has to be drawn somewhere to keep it fair for everyone. If someone says something you feel is offensive, then kindly PM them and ask them not to talk about that any further. If they continue after that, staff can intervene and deal with it appropriately. 

[Nubbsauce]

5 hours ago, Requiem said:

I agree that if someone is doing nothing but being hateful on an OOC level, then its a problem. If its kept IC and they have no ill intent behind it, and its just for RP, I don't feel we should restrict speech any further. We don't want to have people fearful of what they can and can't say while playing having them scared of catching a punishment for something they didn't even feel was negative in any manner. Anyone can find almost anything offensive in some way, and the line has to be drawn somewhere to keep it fair for everyone. If someone says something you feel is offensive, then kindly PM them and ask them not to talk about that any further. If they continue after that, staff can intervene and deal with it appropriately. 

And the line is Slurs. 

It also isn't hard to NOT say those things either. So the pendulum swings both ways.

It's much easier to have a clear outline of what is to not be said, rather than keeping it vague. It's also easier to just not use slurs that bring down a group of people. 

Also I have seen several reports to where it had NOT been punished and just moved on from. So it's clear there is even uncertainty from a ooc punishment standpoint as well with the current wording.