Netlok

I think the main issue with this addition is its a vehicle thats not obtainable in game for criminals creating an unfair balance, there is one of them on the server for players to own and it is owned by an admin on a PD character. I think if PD is able to be using it it should be added to both the vehicle dealerships and the credit store so criminals are also able to play on a level playing field.

I think the problem more so lies in that it has been happening with a fair bit of frequency as of late. Yes Quiet drew this up after a situation we recently had but the problem is more that it has been happening to us with a lot of regularity lately. Theres a couple groups we have been dealing with lately that pretty much every interaction we have with them is resulting in cops being involved and I have ICly heard similar accounts from people in other organizations. Yes i think snitching is always going to happen but with the frequency that it happens at and the reasoning for it happening often will demotivate criminal players. Its hard enough to organize 10-20 crims to all play together and work together on things without having to worry about dealing with constant gun fights from PD and SD which are uncapped factions with access to much better equipment then we can aquire. Usually these situations kill any RP that could have happened and turn it into non stop unwinnable PVP situations which many players dont find enjoyable to be in every night,

I can agree less masks and finishing people off would be healthier RP though

Criminals going to the police about other criminals is in no way highlighting misconduct, IA reporting another officer as an officer is is no way like snitching, The comparison on the criminal side to an IA report would be that you notice your fellow gang member breaking an internal rule in your gang and you tell your gang leader about it, Just because some people may forum report out of spite and some people may mix their OOC feelings into their RP and vice versa doesnt mean everyone does, those also arent behaviours we should promote anyways, These points also dont really relate the discussion at hand of whether it should be NRP to snitch on other criminals to the police as a criminal and where that line should be in that RP.

Making an IA report would be the complete opposite of a criminal snitching to the cops, IA reporting you are trying to get your fellow officers to behave inline with your departments code of conduct, You arent diminishing the gains of others by IA reporting, You are highlighting misconduct. And snitching would not be something inline with the average criminals morals. You outline that people snitch because they have something to gain from it but then just completely undermine your own point and say that people do it purely out of spite which would not be causing a gain for them at all. Also equating pointing out an opposing faction breaking OOC rules to taking IC actions against a faction is a horrible point to make and is just presuming people are mixing with their actions and doesnt really pertain to the conversation at hand anyways. Now I feel that criminals should be able to snitch on some level and it does promote healthy RP if done in the right way, but on the other side I feel it definetly has been getting out of hand lately with high ranking members of gangs snitching on others because they find it funny or calling cops on rival gangs just because your numbers are low at the time and you dont feel you can win the fight. I feel these behaviours should be curbed as it doesnt promote a healthy RP environment on the criminal side. It really just incentivizes troll behaviors and most of the time doesnt even allow for following RP as the person will be masked up and drive off before discretely calling and then never returning to the area. I feel at some point it gets to a point of NRP if your RPing as a criminal but just rely on the cops for every situation you cant personally handle.

This kinda just proves the point i was making. We shouldnt have to wipe PD to have the chance at peaceful RP. I get we have charges and IRL officers would wanna go after a repeat offender but you also got suspend your disbelief and remember this is an RP server and usually we are trying to make a story. Many of those charges we did get and shootouts with PD we got into we felt were escalated by PD. So on our side it feels very unfair for PD to escalate a situation with us, often occuring outside our own HQ, and then use our reaction to that situation as justification to stomp out our more story based RP we attempted.

The only problem with any sort of revolution RP is that PD has always been way too hard on stomping it out and turning it into non stop pvp gun fights from my expierence rather then letting the RP scenes play out when stuff like this has arrised. Any protest i have organised has resulted in PD escalating the situation into a riot which in turn becomes counter productive to the players who are trying to have more story based gameplay rather then non stop pvp scenes. I think having some corruption in goverment is healthy for RP but the police officers often dont let the RP build to any meaningful point often leading to these types of players becoming demotivated and leaving the server such as with many members of the Underground. They instead go for quick and easy arrests on minor stuff like unlawful assembly during these situations and just ruin the potential RP that could have unfolded.

I have had this issue occur aswell

Every scenario where i have been locked up for an extended time recently has been due to a DoC guard antagonizing prisoners for long periods of time till the prisoner decides to react. DoC guards will then over react with force when you deal with the one person who was harrassing you, lock you up for an extended period and then come harrass you in the cell. It often feels like a form of crim baiting when im in those scenarios. I dont feel like guards should be antagozing prisoners, especially ones known for killing cops. And if they do they should expect a reaction, I feel like its an OOC punishment to lock them up for the rest of the sentence for "killing one of ours" even if the guard started the fight.

Cops can pull them out of impound for you, they dont get used often so staff arent always fully knowledgable on them.