Cyrus Raven

I might be biased cause I won the jet ski one, but I really enjoy the events that give everyone the same cars or vehicles and the winner is mostly decided by skill as opposed to who has the better vehicle, item, weapon, etc... Also like other more social events like auctions and graduations.

That was my entire point. Because the server has parking meters and the police currently don't tow any car from the bank regardless if it paid a ticket or not it implies that it ISN'T a crime to park there. It is a crime to park in the middle of the road, but not around the bank, which is why it ISN'T an NCZ violation. If you want to fix this make it illegal and therefore a crime or ask Police/LSC to clean up the area more often.

-1 IC issue, there are parking meters at the bank which automatically implies that the area around the bank is to be used, regardless of your opinion on it, therefore the suggestion should be to increase enforcement of parking tickets IC'ly or make parking at the bank a server offense. Magically ''beaming'' vehicles from where they were parked with no valid IC issue is a no go IMO.

Let's say that the rule with regards to hacking and exploiting was not present in the rule book, do you think that it would be permissible for someone to hack the server or cheat? Generally speaking, all punishments should be under a rule set, but there are situations where the case is so specific that a rule wasn't specifically written for it. Let's take the example of abusing the AFK timer. We can induce that the reason why there is an AFK timer is so that players aren't left standing still in the middle of nowhere not interacting with people or for other purposes like farming paychecks. Essentially, the purpose of the mechanic is to indirectly tell players ''If you are online you should be working, interacting with people, RP'ing or otherwise mobile within the server and not AFK'. There might not be a specific rule that prevents this, but at the same time, it is fairly obvious that abusing this is antithetical to the system in place.

I mean it depends entirely on whether or not this happens a lot, just because you might have gotten banned for something that wasn't explicitly in the rules doesn't mean this is necessarily a common occurrence. If that is the case then I would +1, if not then I would throw it up as a one-time case and move on.

I've only been here for a month so my experience may be limited. But from what I've seen members of staff make an effort to help and be courteous at all times. Every time I've had an issue in-game and used /report I've gotten someone who is nice and ready to help clarify or fix any issues I have. Likewise, on the forums when I've reported someone or I have been reported staff members have taken time to look into the situation and give a verdict catering to each situation while always keeping the rules in mind, so they don't create an unwanted precedent. I'm sorry to hear that you've had a bad experience and hopefully talking about these issues can help solve some of the problems you feel are present in the community. Sometimes as players we have to understand that admins won't always be available or won't always reach a verdict that satisfies you, this can be due to a difference of opinion, understanding of the rules and/or the situation. There are always going to be very niche situations where who broke what rule is black and white and this can obviously lead to situations where a player feels like he has been unfairly treated by the staff team, these are what appeals are for, if it's the case that even the person reviewing the appeal agrees with the admin then there isn't much else to do than to take it in the chin and improve your actions based on the verdict.

True, so two chances essentially on the same character and then another two on the other character. Suggestion solved I guess.

Well dam, I was not aware of this at all. Thanks for clarifying. Maybe something should still be done for those who have used up their one name change (and are forced to donate to change it), but I imagine this solution is available to a lot of people.

I wasn't aware of this, how would you go about doing this ? Just changing your name and then ask a staff member to clear your records?

I don't disagree with you, but I'm arguing against anything you said. Let me try to illustrate my problem. Someone who is new joins the server and tries to go make some money at the farm. One of the things he notices is cars being lockpicked and people being robbed very frequently. After a few days, he decides to join a gang as most people are a part of a gang. He spends most of his days rolling around as a group and going to drug labs and chop shops, he eventually (as is natural in that kind of environment) gets arrested for either attempting to shoot a rival gang member or even an officer. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the experience a lot of new players get when joining the server. To answer your question ''I don't get why at the current state of server everyone thinks that it's a right to get a pistol and do crimes'' the reason why this is the current state of the server is because that's what the server indirectly promotes. Prior to this change (I can't say if this is still the case after the firearm license change) everyone and their mother owned a gun, either legally or illegally and if you did happen to get caught doing some fucked up shit, no one would care because they can just re-buy the firearm license and go down to the closest store and purchase a gun. This type of behavior, as you pointed out, is not worthy of an RP server, which is why these changes are really good in my opinion. However, transitioning to a system that essentially encourages more RP and less running and gunning around the city with no recourse at all for existing players seems unfair in my mind. I think it would be sensible to allow players a second chance at owning a firearm license and becoming a law-abiding citizen. I understand you might be exceptional in so far as you were able to cultivate two characters with no arrests, but surely even you recognize that you are the exception the norm. I think that the best case scenario we get people who want to own a firearm license for protection and still be a law abiding citizen and the worst case scenario we get an influx of people who get the license and end up still committing crimes, in which case they get the license revoked and can never own a license for the foreseeable future. I think this solution is better than potentially alienating a lot of the player base that is looking to improve their RP to something besides criminal RP.

The issue is that because of the recent change on how firearms work we essentially went from a state where anyone can grab a license no matter their charges too if you have a single felony you will be denied. While this process is 100% fine and something I fully support, all I am saying is that there should be an opportunity for people to redeem themselves given this massive change, otherwise, as I've pointed out, most people who have been playing on here for the past month will most likely not be able to get a license if they've even been remotely involved in gang/criminal activity. This essentially means that the only way to get a firearm license is to create a new character, which as you might imagine is probably not the most fun thing to do. Thus the suggestions above.

It is great that an effort to increase the standard of RP and add new features to the server is being made. However, I would like to suggest a change with the recent firearm protocol. It used to be the case that you could essentially walk into the PD and get a license provided you weren't wanted, had 10k to pay for the license and had no speeding tickets. However, it is now the case that essentially any existing character on the server who wishes to get a firearm license has to have a completely clear record, which makes those players who want to adapt to the higher standard of RP a bit difficult. I understand that giving a firearm license to someone who has 50 counts of manslaughter is unrealistic, but maybe some leeway should be given for less egregious offenses like reckless driving. My suggestion is to either Lower the requirements and take into account the date in which these were committed (if it was before the change then accept them provided they have no felonies after the date of the new firearm protocol). This means that essentially everyone has a chance to get a new license and this will be their one and only chance to prove they can carry one if they fail to adapt they get their license revoked and they won't get one issued again for the foreseeable future. OR Allow for players who want to pay in-game money or IRL credits to change their name, which would then automatically clear their record without having to give up their backstory, items, money, etc... These are just a couple of suggestions, feel free to contribute. Essentially what I am looking for is a way to fairly give a chance to existing players to acquire a firearms license without having their entire past prevent them from doing so because of the recent firearm license changes.

I agree. While I would like to be able to have a system that allows everyone to appeal to every type of crime it is far too unrealistic in the context of this server.

In other words, a server mechanic metagames your identity.

Thanks for the questions I'll try and clarify. Keep in mind, this is a starting guide, a suggestion to try and implement a system that a lot of players want. I personally am not of the view that such a system shouldn't be discussed or implemented just because every single aspect of the system isn't detailed. I would hope this is something that we could develop as a community with the help of staff and developers. ''What happens if no Judges are online? Does the player stay in prison until one is available? Is he released?'' - This question is somewhat addressed in the ''Appeals'' section of the suggestion. If judges are offline the player will have to serve his/her sentence and then appeal/counter-sue the government for wrongful imprisonment through a private law firm. However, the idea is that having a lawyer or public defendant available to players will offer an opportunity for the player and the officer to interact with each other, explain their side of the stories, examine evidence and then come to an amicable conclusion together. ''How would you guarantee Judges to be unbiased? Would they only be allowed one account, or would you have them be server staff?'' - This question is more complicated and it depends on how the system is implemented. I personally think that this system should be free of corruption via OOC rules, as for the possible bias, as long as a blatant disregard is not shown and a coherent argument is made then that would probably be sufficient. As for the account issue, I think that these positions should be just like any other faction, you can have other characters. If any bias is found to be taking place this player would be punished by staff. These roles shouldn't exclusive to staff, but the initial implementation of the system should be overseen by staff to ensure that the best possible roleplayers are at the core foundation of the faction. However, I am not entirely opposed to allowing Judges to be paid off or corrupt to some extent, the issue is that at the current time I don't personally trust that most players will be able to roleplay this type of character in a good way, probably due to the low amount of good RPers on the server. ''Private Law Offices, do they need to approved by government, or can any felon suddenly become a lawyer for his similarly felonious friend?'' - Anyone who has passed the bar examination can be privately contracted. However, if a player wants to go on to create a law firm, they can through the appropriate channels available to them (https://forum.eclipse-rp.net/forum/22-businesses/). As for felons being lawyers, this is something I am heavily against. Any lawyer or player who has passed the bar association and then becomes a felon will automatically have his bar examination revoked. Players should be able to appeal this decision and be given a second chance ONLY after a lengthy amount of time has passed and they have managed to commit no more felonies.

Dear Eclipse Community, With the recent pop up of threads talking about the police and criminal meta on the server and advocating for some form of judicial system I thought I would attempt to outline some of the important key aspects to keep in mind if such a system were to be implemented. Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer if you think some aspects need to be corrected or the wording needs to be changed then feel free to leave a comment! This guide is based on my recollection of how other servers have implemented a judicial system and several other suggestions posted on the forums (Any section that is taken from another player's suggestion will be highlighted in yellow. Introducing the San Andreas Department of Justice (SADJ), a branch of government that interprets state and federal law and adjudicates disputes. The SADJ not only is in charge of adjudicating disputes between parties but is also in charge of providing the citizens of Los Santos with a public defender. Moreover, the SADJ also oversees and administers the bar examination, a test that all practicing lawyers are required to take before they are allowed to practice law in the city of Los Santos. The SADJ Hierarchy and Roles Attorney General Deputy Attorney General Solicitor General Chief Justice Deputy Chief Justice Justices Public Defender How will the SADJ play a role on the server ? The role of the SADJ is as follows: To prosecute and set up legal cases against individuals, groups or entities in Los Santos, alongside the Los Santos Police Department and the San Andreas State Department; Adjudicate proceedings between two parties. Either for criminal or civil cases between two individual parties or against the government of Los Santos, including any government agencies (LSPD, SADOC, SASD, etc...); Organize and provide a system of recourse for citizens of Los Santos through the assignment of public defenders if requested by the citizen. Offer the bar examination to any citizen looking to become a Lawyer of Public Defender How will this system work in practice ? The SADJ will serve as an authoritative body that oversees enforcement agencies, holds accountable all government agencies and provides a legal defense system for all civilians. The following section is based on a post by Gabriel Brown Court Process: Criminal Law A Police Officer may arrest in a similar manner as they can currently, however, if the suspect wishes to challenge the charges against him he may. It is then If a judge rules in favor of the plaintiff, the charge will be removed from their record and, if they spent time in prison, will be awarded compensation. In general, the prosecution’s evidence must overcome the defendant’s presumption of innocence, which the Constitution guarantees as due process of law. This means that the burden of proof is on the government of Los Santos. If the prosecution fails to provide proper evidence to justify the given charges it is then up to the judge to make a ruling given the circumstances. Appeals If the suspect has been incarcerated at any government facility (Mission Row, DOC), but has since served his sentence, upon the request of the former-inmate a Public Defender (or Private Attorney) may file an appeal with the SADOJ. A court date would be set and a judgment will be made with the ability of compensation in case of wrongful doing. The Solicitor General's Office would present the case for the Los Santos Police Department. This would include evidence, written statements, and testimony from police officers and eyewitnesses. ((This would involve dashcam footage from the officer's perspective and a series of /me and /do when presenting other evidence in which the players would confirm or deny the assertions made by the police department )). Government Investigations Court Procedure After an investigation has been carried out by the Attorney General's Office, a Government Prosecutor may bring charges against an individual, company or entity. They may also subpoena witnesses (upon a judge's approval) to testify before the court. The defendant may be represented by a Public Defender, or by a Private Law Office attorney. In these cases, the burden of proof is on the Government Prosecutor. The prosecution must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant(s) committed said crime(s). Court Process: Civil Law A civil court case may be filed on behalf of any individual by, only, a Private Law Office. Cases may be considered under the remit of "civil law" if it concerns a dispute between two (or more) individuals only (and not public entities or bodies). Judges may rule that a party pays compensation to another party, however, they may not be incarcerated as a result of a civil case. If the defendant in a case cannot afford legal counsel, a Public Defender may be assigned to them. In civil cases, a judge may rule with regards to the propagation of evidence. In other words, if more than 50% of the weighted evidence is in favor of one party, they will rule in favor said party.

Firstly I like the basic legal system setup you've outlined. I think that this system would give players a recourse if they believe they have been wrongfully accused (or if they just want to try their luck I guess), but further from that, I think it would increase RP standards. Having longer prison sentences where you spend a portion of that time getting a lawyer, talking to him, maybe going to court seems like something that would take time (In a good way). For me personally, it's all about those interactions that spiral into an RP story. As for the other point with regards to how criminals and cops act, I must admit, I came off way too hard at the start of this thread, most likely because I was upset at the situations I had found myself in at the time. Having said this, I don't think I was wrong in voicing my opinion, but I think I ended up making a few statements that came off as me trying to portray the entire police force based on a handful of personal experiences. However, as it stands right now, having had time to gauge the community by browsing the forums, player reports, etc... and by having more hands-on time in the server, I think it comes down to an overall community problem, not just PD. Hopefully that is something we can fix,

I agree, in general, RP should be elevated on both sides as much as possible. But I should add that every situation I've talked about in this thread hasn't involved me shooting a single officer.

That's cool! But, would you agree that the vast majority of people just sell them at drop off ?

Sure, but there is no market for those drugs. The meta at the moment is people camping drug lab, making whatever drug sells the highest and then selling it at a drug sell point. Reducing the number of drugs and giving them unique and desirable effects for a temporary effect, combined with deleting the drug drop off point will incentivize players to make drugs and sell them to the players, it is then up to each individual player In character to figure out the average street price of a drug through IC interactions.

+1 make it a player driven economy, the only way people are able to buy drugs is through players/gangs who have put in the work at drug labs. Make the drugs have effects that are worthwhile, each with their unique, temporary effects.

This thread explains everything with regards to RP - This is why it is recommended you read EVERY link in this thread before you attempt the quiz -

I mean if I was waiting for weeks for my application to be accepted I would probably be upset as well The difference is I'm not a child who expects people to work on a voluntary basis reviewing hundreds of boring and unique applications per day, which is why I called you priveleged in an earlier post.

I mean you are the one basing your opinions on assumptions that can't be substantiated. The way you form a logically sound argument is by using a bunch of premises and you form a conclusion based on those premises. So what I want to know is why do you assume that because the server has a ton of applications this means that the server population would instantly skyrocket? These are all plausible scenarios to account for the server population: People who have applied failed so they have to reapply (1 application doesn't mean one instant player) Players might try the server once or twice and then stop playing because they dislike the meta or got tired Players might get accepted, but because of potentially week-long wait times they forget or move on to something else Players might not play immediately after being accepted every single day of their lives The 300 players on at one given moment might be different than another 300 players on at another time, this is because of timezones, work commitments, etc.. Not everyone plays GTA RP all day every day. Anyways I could go on and on, you've once again managed to prove your childlike behavior and mindset, congratulations. To insinuate that I am responding because of ''clout'' is hilarious, I literally have a thread up right now and several comments critiquing the server, the RP meta and how it's run, but I guess those in your mind count as ''clout chasing'', but hey I wouldn't expect anything else from someone who has displayed such a lack of critical thinking and his opinions are mostly baseless conjecture