Reduce officer kevlar health advantage to 75%-50%

[Dashingly]

Problem: Right now I think that PD (unintentionally) abuse their kevlar. They may run into near unwinnable situations and come out on top, just because they use their kevlar as having double health. 

Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZCIdzeQnhU

Why it's a problem: If you skip to 15s in that video, You'll see a cop walk into an alley where there are 4 people with ak's and pistols pointed staring down at him and you'll see him still fight and try to take them out. The cop didn't know that RP was paused (I'm making another server suggestion about this) which was not his fault at all. But when we were all informed RP was resumed (@1:18 in the video) he proceeded to climb up to where the 4 people with the AK's and pistols aimed at him, and tried to gun them down. In real life, would this be reasonable? Would even the bravest cop in the world, casually climb up a ladder to 4 people with guns firing at him. Would he even be able to make it up the ladder IRL? He then proceeded to fight and when he realized he was about to die he ran off, which is good, however, he shouldn't have even been up there in the first place. He had back up on the way, but they weren't in the alley and fighting with him.

My solution: If he didn't have 2 health bars, do you think that cop would have fought those 4 people with AK's and pistols, let alone climb up a ladder in front of them to try and finish them off? I really doubt it, that's why I'm proposing that regular officer's kevlar get reduced to 50%, while SWAT remains at 100%. Cops should definitely have kevlar, as they are often out numbered and would tend to die much more often without it (which is a bad thing). However, I don't think that regular officer's should have 2 health bars, because it can lead to situations like the one in the video, where they think that they are invulnerable. SWAT should remain with 100% kevlar because they wear more protective gear then regular officers, and thus should have more protection with kevlar.

Again, let me reiterate that cops should definitely still have kevlar, without it they would be severely handicapped and cops would die much more often and more criminals would over run the city. I'm just merely suggesting that they should have reduced kevlar, unless they are in SWAT.

Thanks.

PS: I'm not angry or upset with the cop for doing this, cops should be braver and take risks to save the city however I think this was a little ridiculous and could have been RP'd a bit better

[Phil McGee]

Id go so far with present damage ratios that they only get 25% and SWAT maybe 50%. Pending weapon damage being fixed.

Just watched the video--- Why is the cop not even taking notice of the men the ground with illegal AKs firing up at the rooftops? Considering he just rolled up  on this situation and started to take the side of the people firing illegal weapons.....

Edited April 22, 2018 by Phil McGee
Watched Video, Horrified by police RP.

[Kay133]

7 hours ago, JackD248 said:

+1 100% agree 

Or if cops get to keep that level of OPness then civs should be allowed armor. 

"Gotta remember IRL there are more cops than criminals at a scene so when Exiled do a shootout they may be 10 exiled members and only 6-7 cops so cops should have the armor to compensate this as IRL there would be hundreds of cops"

This isn't my personal opinion. I'm just quoting a person that had other thoughts but seemed to have changed these.

Edited April 23, 2018 by Kay133

[Phil McGee]

I think the IRL point cant always apply when it comes to cops. Its a game after all that means it needs balancing to be enjoyable and make cops RP appropriate ie not like in the above video using his Kevlar like an OP shield as he climbs a ladder with no fear of financial loss or jail-time as if he gets killed its very few negative effects for him. 

I think it may help if cops need to put a deposit down on the weapons they take out of the armory so if they get killed while on duty with them it will result in a financial garnishing of there wages and thus resulting in them not wanting to get killed.

Edited April 23, 2018 by Phil McGee

[nateX]

Disagree, criminals outnumber police officers 80% of the time.

What would happen if they would reduce the armor? The Criminals would easily kill 4-6 cops when there are 15 of them, so if you really want to talk about balance, we should probably leave it as it is, and you just need to group up and if you want to kill cops, take them with numbers.

[nateX]

Also in the video, you killed them easily, because they were outnumbered, if you just want to shoot cops/people for fun, there are DM server where you are free to do that.

[Phil McGee]

The original post is about lack of fearing for his life due to the heavy Kevlar, nobody mentioned anything about wanting to DM cops.

[nateX]

1 hour ago, Phil McGee said:

The original post is about lack of fearing for his life due to the heavy Kevlar, nobody mentioned anything about wanting to DM cops.

I understand that, but I do not think the police are trained to run up 1v5 on criminals just because they have kevlar, they are trained to stay behind cover, I do not know what kind of lack of fear you are talking about.

[Phil McGee]

Watch the video in the first post, see him climb a ladder in a reign of gunfire with no fear for his life, what you're  saying they are trained to do is the total opposite of what he did due to his OP Kevlar and no consequences to dying. 

 

[nateX]

1 hour ago, Phil McGee said:

Watch the video in the first post, see him climb a ladder in a reign of gunfire with no fear for his life, what you're  saying they are trained to do is the total opposite of what he did due to his OP Kevlar and no consequences to dying. 

 

Well, that's his issue, if he would have stayed behind cover, he would have survived.

[GaiusTavi]

@nateX is right, this isnt an example of why cops need reduced armour, simply an example of one cop breaking protocol and acting foolish in a way which gets him killed....

[Phil McGee]

In my opinion this is the norm and not the exception.

[DutchDevil]

Guess its all about shooting cops these days instead of RP. How about you used roleplay instead of shooting us? Seems like that ain't a possibility. Honestly, lately, we have been killed so many times and been outnumbered so many times that I think its more a personal problem than a server problem. 

[Osborn]

Can we please stop focusing on suggesting how to remove realism and make it easier for cops to die more often and instead focus on improving the general RP? The only RP you go through on the server shouldn't be killing cops or getting into police pursuits. It's an RP server, not cops and robbers. 

Want to remove something more from PD? Compensate with stricter punishments for cop baiting (i.e. driving in circles around a traffic stop on a motorbike when you've got a long list of active felony charges), also with the implementation of the official gang system which holds illegal gangs to a certain standard with the potential consequence of being removed from the official list (Community Update #1). There's a reason why PD is outnumbered in the majority of situations, you have to go through a lengthy recruitment process which includes a 4+ hour long academy and then a minimum of 7 days of not leaving the station alone as a Cadet. Not everyone wants to do that when they can just join a gang the first day on the server and get access to guns.

Edit: We've already nerfed the speed to stock on our regular cruisers, removed access to heavy weaponry for non SWAT (all officers had it previously to match firepower), it's your turn. We're RPing a state in a developed country, the cops are not meant to be balanced with criminals, but we try to make it as balanced as possible without ruining the immersive experience of a police officer, that's role-play, criminality is meant to have consequences and meant to be done in the background. 

If anything, increase the damage output on weapons again, they seem to have been nerfed since I last played. You could take down a cop with 4 bullets from a .50 pistol. Old video for reference.
 

 

Edited April 23, 2018 by FatherOsbornHD

[Phil McGee]

You are all getting a bit confused as to the reason behind the suggestion, its not a reduction to be able to kill anyone more easily but to assist in an appropriate level of Fear RP. The only person who mentioned DM didn't even look at provided link and just commented blind.

[DutchDevil]

12 minutes ago, Phil McGee said:

You are all getting a bit confused as to the reason behind the suggestion, its not a reduction to be able to kill anyone more easily but to assist in an appropriate level of Fear RP. The only person who mentioned DM didn't even look at provided link and just commented blind.

Well, instead of shooting right away (Which almost happends always) Tell us to put our hands up. I had the same thing with LEwis Langley yesterday and we totally complied, the problem is we usually get shot at right away.

Edited April 23, 2018 by DutchDevil

[aon]

Totally agreed with @FatherOsbornHD. This isn't Takistan Life where cops and criminals are balanced. If you have cops arriving on scene, you already failed as a criminal - you got caught, you should have a disadvantage. The point of being a criminal is to make money. Shooting at cops should be the last resort, and I'm not saying it doesn't happen IRL, it's just that IRL there are 10x more cops than criminals when there's a shootout going on. Armor is a decent way to balance the fact that there are less cops than criminals on the server.

[Kay133]

18 minutes ago, JackD248 said:

Yes but cops shouldn't have double health thats not armour. Armour protects 1) Chest bullets 2) Not that strong most heavy weapons pass straight through 

Armour the cops 100% should have as it will give leeway for 1 or 2 pistol bullets to the chest as it would irl but not a full magazine or any hevay weapons

So you've changed your mind?

 

Just want to say that I agree that armor either should be lowered or weapon's damage should be raised (second option would be better imo). I just think that criminals should have a few more options to do illegal things as people have previously suggested so they don't immediately go to pursuits and such.

[Dashingly]

2 hours ago, nateX said:

Disagree, criminals outnumber police officers 80% of the time.

What would happen if they would reduce the armor? The Criminals would easily kill 4-6 cops when there are 15 of them, so if you really want to talk about balance, we should probably leave it as it is, and you just need to group up and if you want to kill cops, take them with numbers.

 

43 minutes ago, aon said:

Totally agreed with @FatherOsbornHD. This isn't Takistan Life where cops and criminals are balanced. If you have cops arriving on scene, you already failed as a criminal - you got caught, you should have a disadvantage. The point of being a criminal is to make money. Shooting at cops should be the last resort, and I'm not saying it doesn't happen IRL, it's just that IRL there are 10x more cops than criminals when there's a shootout going on. Armor is a decent way to balance the fact that there are less cops than criminals on the server.

 

1 hour ago, FatherOsbornHD said:

Can we please stop focusing on suggesting how to remove realism and make it easier for cops to die more often and instead focus on improving the general RP? The only RP you go through on the server shouldn't be killing cops or getting into police pursuits. It's an RP server, not cops and robbers. 

Want to remove something more from PD? Compensate with stricter punishments for cop baiting (i.e. driving in circles around a traffic stop on a motorbike when you've got a long list of active felony charges), also with the implementation of the official gang system which holds illegal gangs to a certain standard with the potential consequence of being removed from the official list (Community Update #1). There's a reason why PD is outnumbered in the majority of situations, you have to go through a lengthy recruitment process which includes a 4+ hour long academy and then a minimum of 7 days of not leaving the station alone as a Cadet. Not everyone wants to do that when they can just join a gang the first day on the server and get access to guns.

Edit: We've already nerfed the speed to stock on our regular cruisers, removed access to heavy weaponry for non SWAT (all officers had it previously to match firepower), it's your turn. We're RPing a state in a developed country, the cops are not meant to be balanced with criminals, but we try to make it as balanced as possible without ruining the immersive experience of a police officer, that's role-play, criminality is meant to have consequences and meant to be done in the background. 

If anything, increase the damage output on weapons again, they seem to have been nerfed since I last played. You could take down a cop with 4 bullets from a .50 pistol. Old video for reference.

 

1 hour ago, DutchDevil said:

Guess its all about shooting cops these days instead of RP. How about you used roleplay instead of shooting us? Seems like that ain't a possibility. Honestly, lately, we have been killed so many times and been outnumbered so many times that I think its more a personal problem than a server problem. 

 

Don't know how you all could have missed the point so much, I even restated it at the end to make sure people wouldn't miss it. I already stated that cops are at a disadvantage and that's why they should have armor, the problem is that some police treat it as double health so I think reducing it for police officers would be a good change. Here's the thought process in my head, and tell me if you disagree.

Is it realistic for cops to have kevlar vests? Yes

Should regular cops have the same amount of body protection as the SWAT team? No

Do some cops on the server use their double health as an opportunity to go into a situation that IRL they maybe wouldn't? Yes

So the thought was to reduce armor so that cops don't feel invincible in a gun fight. Do you think that's a fair point? Instead of taking shots at me and Phil on a server suggestion why don't you all make server suggestions of your own to try and better the environment of the server, and not use my thread to try and take jabs at us. ty

[DutchDevil]

6 minutes ago, Dashingly said:

 

 

 

 

Don't know how you all could have missed the point so much, I even restated it at the end to make sure people wouldn't miss it. I already stated that cops are at a disadvantage and that's why they should have armor, the problem is that some police treat it as double health so I think reducing it for police officers would be a good change. Here's the thought process in my head, and tell me if you disagree.

Is it realistic for cops to have kevlar vests? Yes

Should regular cops have the same amount of body protection as the SWAT team? No

Do some cops on the server use their double health as an opportunity to go into a situation that IRL they maybe wouldn't? Yes

So the thought was to reduce armor so that cops don't feel invincible in a gun fight. Do you think that's a fair point? Instead of taking shots at me and Phil on a server suggestion why don't you all make server suggestions of your own to try and better the environment of the server, and not use my thread to try and take jabs at us. ty

1

Should regular cops have the same amount of body protection as the SWAT team? No
You want swat to have 3 bars? Fine! Makes no sense to me at all, I think a full kevlar/hp bar is perfect for both.

"Do some cops on the server use their double health as an opportunity to go into a situation that IRL they maybe wouldn't? Yes"
That's an individual problem and you should report these people instead.

Over the last few weeks/months we've been nerfed and nerfed and nerfed as a police force. The Cruisers are going less fast, the MDC doesn't reach further then 3 meters, and you're still complaining.
Honnestly, I do not see the problem indeed, Usually, when we come in gunfights we are losing them, especially since its a pistol against an AK-47. Having the problem that a few officers don't rp fear is an individual thing and not the whole force should be "punished" for that. Honestly, I think you're just making a big problem out of a really small one.

This is going to be my last post in this suggestion, but I do not support the suggestion at all.

Edited April 23, 2018 by DutchDevil

[Dashingly]

13 minutes ago, DutchDevil said:

Should regular cops have the same amount of body protection as the SWAT team? No
You want swat to have 3 bars? Fine! Makes no sense to me at all, I think a full kevlar/hp bar is perfect for both.

"Do some cops on the server use their double health as an opportunity to go into a situation that IRL they maybe wouldn't? Yes"
That's an individual problem and you should report these people instead.

Honnestly, I do not see the problem indeed, Usually, when we come in gunfights we are losing them, especially since its a pistol against an AK-47. Having the problem that a few officers don't rp fear is an individual thing and not the whole force should be "punished" for that. Honestly, I think you're just making a big problem out of a really small one.

This is going to be my last post in this suggestion, but I do not support the suggestion at all.

lol

 

1 hour ago, DutchDevil said:

Guess its all about shooting cops these days instead of RP. How about you used roleplay instead of shooting us? Seems like that ain't a possibility. Honestly, lately, we have been killed so many times and been outnumbered so many times that I think its more a personal problem than a server problem. 

your whole point disagreeing with the suggestion is that we don't RP we just shoot cops, completely missing the point of the post so I'm not really sure if your lack of support means anything considering you missed the whole point and started to take jabs at me and Phil.

Edited April 23, 2018 by Dashingly

[aon]

22 hours ago, JackD248 said:

Yes but cops shouldn't have double health thats not armour. Armour protects 1) Chest bullets 2) Not that strong most heavy weapons pass straight through 

Armour the cops 100% should have as it will give leeway for 1 or 2 pistol bullets to the chest as it would irl but not a full magazine or any hevay weapons

OK, but if we go with that logic, one bullet from my M4 to your chest/legs/anywhere will incapacitate you for a few months, if not kill you instantly. Think before you say something - the healthbar without armor can absorb 15-20 M4 shots. If you want us to RP having realistic armor, you're gonna have to RP having realistic health aswell.

[TiredPsycho]

On 4/23/2018 at 12:30 PM, JackD248 said:

Does a regular patrol cop IRL have as much armour as a SWAT? 

Wanna ask who has more armour in this picture?

Would the regular cop go rushing into gun fights on his own?

Does the regular cop have any Leg, Arm, Head etc protection? 

Who overall looks more armed to you?

 

That goes both ways cause criminals in real life don't go driving expensive cars and carry heavy weapons all the time. But since we ain't basing it all the stuff from real life it makes sense for a cop on eclipse to be wearing a bullet proof vest since about 80% of the people in the city shoot at them for petty crimes they've committed.