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Spergburger

Get the community's opinion on new changes-especially divisive ones-before you add them to the game.

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As most people probably know by now an update was recently added to the game that removed supercars from being purchasable, and is later going to remove supercars from everyone's possession. While I won't say whether I'm for or against this change (I didn't even have a super car) it is obviously very divisive and lots of people have an issue with how it was added to the game without anyone besides Nobody and maybe the admins knowing about it existing. In the future I believe it is important to have transparency with the community so they know what is being changed, and to see how they feel about the changes that are being made before implementing them. This would help to build the server that the community wants as opposed to the server that the admins want.

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I'm sure this was discussed thoroughly. This has been an ongoing issue regarding super-cars, it is so easily accessible to players who wish to purchase one being that anyone can give or sell super cars for way under stock just to receive "fast cash," and is also very annoying to P.D because we have an unfair advantage. In the real world, the majority of the population of a city is not going to own super-cars, it's just not like that. We are going for realistic RP on this server, not ridiculous and FailRP criminal chases left and right, because that would make this server a cops and robbers server, not a roleplay server. Nobody is doing what needs to be done in order to give everyone a fun and enjoyable experience. It is not fun for PD whenever we have to chase a super-car and let them get away with it. It would be a different story if it was very rare to see someone driving around in a super-car, but in this case, almost everyone has them. The super-cars will be refunded, anyway. In my opinion, things like this should not need the opinion of others, as it is obvious. If players actually roleplayed fear for their vehicles instead of ramming them, driving them into water, driving at high and unrealistic speeds, etc., then maybe we could enjoy the liberty of super-cars. For now, I completely support the decision Nobody has made today.

Edited by TheFluciFial
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Police have super cars themselves, as well as helicopters to help combat criminals using supercars. But like I said earlier this isn't about whether or not they should've been removed, this is about transparency and listening to the community. If the community had been informed of this change and allowed to give their opinion on it beforehand I wouldn't be making this post, but instead this massive change which has even caused some people to leave the server was added without asking the community if they wanted it or not. That seems wrong to me and if divisive changes like that keep being added without anyone being made aware of them or allowed to vote on whether or not they want them added you'll see a lot of people leaving the community because they feel that the server doesn't have their interests in mind but instead the interests of the admins.

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The topic of supercars has always been an ongoing discussion in the community since I first joined. I support the removal but I also support a revisit to supercars in the future for those who actually want to role-play accordingly with them. It's unfortunate that some are truly affected by this (those who role-play realistically around the vehicles) but they are the minority of supercars owners. 

There need to be maintenance fees and other consequences for the reckless use of a supercar, there's a major problem when supercars are used to chase down military convoys and people proceed to shoot from them. 

As for the Police Department, our High-Speed Interception Unit will most likely go through changes in according to this new change. Our Air Support unit was never implemented to tackle the supercars issue, we implemented the High-Speed Interception Unit for that reason. The Air Support Unit is used for a wide variety of other reasons, such as tactical deployments, search and rescue and for general aerial support during situations. Air Support units are very common in real life! Whereas the use of expensive vehicles in relation to crimes are not. 

That's my opinion. I hope they can revisit the supercar category once major bugs have been fixed, perhaps by making a more complex vehicle maintenance system. Wrecking a supercar shouldn't be a cheap fix! 

Edited by FatherOsbornHD
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20 minutes ago, Spergburger said:

Police have super cars themselves, as well as helicopters to help combat criminals using supercars. But like I said earlier this isn't about whether or not they should've been removed, this is about transparency and listening to the community. If the community had been informed of this change and allowed to give their opinion on it beforehand I wouldn't be making this post, but instead this massive change which has even caused some people to leave the server was added without asking the community if they wanted it or not. That seems wrong to me and if divisive changes like that keep being added without anyone being made aware of them or allowed to vote on whether or not they want them added you'll see a lot of people leaving the community because they feel that the server doesn't have their interests in mind but instead the interests of the admins.

I think that saying we don't have the community's interests in mind is an ignorant statement for many reasons. Our developer, key word developer, has just spent months re-coding the entire server moving us to a stable platform so that we could enjoy RP even more. It's not like we come out of no-where with these type of things, this has been being discussed for a long time, between admins, developers, police department, and even some of the super-car owners, and the idea has been brought up a lot. It is the overall consensus that for the time being, remove super cars. In the future, super-cars will most likely be re-added, but (hopefully) at higher prices, higher labor cars, and above all, stricter and more specific rules regarding vehicle FearRP.

As for your overall suggestion of keeping transparency, this (correct me if I am wrong) was the only thing changed in a while that didn't have the majority opinion before the change ensued. If you really take the time to look at the recent changes in RageMP, these are all popular and most requested suggestions, and I'm sure more suggestions will be added in the future. Please don't think the staff-team makes decisions such as these to provide a burden to the community, because we don't, we are just trying to create an experience enjoyable to all players.

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Well I don’t think they should have taken them out. If anything you guys should have told the people in the community that it was going to happen. Yes not everyone should have one. But then you should have limited the amount of those cars that could be sold. I get where you guys are coming from with the police chases but you’re just punishing the people that are not doing that too. I think going further you should allow and talk you your community about these type of changes and allow a vote on it and not just amongst yourselves or some people that have super cars. The only reason I’ve stayed is cause of the work that I have put in to get some of these cars and enjoy driving them. I’ve also donated to this server a lot and I have a vehicle you can’t even get in the server anymore. I don’t want that takin away. 

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46 minutes ago, TheFluciFial said:

I think that saying we don't have the community's interests in mind is an ignorant statement for many reasons. Our developer, key word developer, has just spent months re-coding the entire server moving us to a stable platform so that we could enjoy RP even more. It's not like we come out of no-where with these type of things, this has been being discussed for a long time, between admins, developers, police department, and even some of the super-car owners, and the idea has been brought up a lot. It is the overall consensus that for the time being, remove super cars. In the future, super-cars will most likely be re-added, but (hopefully) at higher prices, higher labor cars, and above all, stricter and more specific rules regarding vehicle FearRP.

As for your overall suggestion of keeping transparency, this (correct me if I am wrong) was the only thing changed in a while that didn't have the majority opinion before the change ensued. If you really take the time to look at the recent changes in RageMP, these are all popular and most requested suggestions, and I'm sure more suggestions will be added in the future. Please don't think the staff-team makes decisions such as these to provide a burden to the community, because we don't, we are just trying to create an experience enjoyable to all players.

I didn't say that the community's best interests aren't in mind, I said that people might start to think that it's not if big divisive changes like this continue to be made without getting the publics opinion on them beforehand. Considering how many people were shocked by this update I highly doubt that as many people were asked about it as you claim there were. Also asking the PD about anything criminals do is always going to have a negative reaction. Remember when they thought 10 hour jail times were a good idea? I'm not calling out the server and saying it's bad, I'm suggesting that in the future there is more transparency regarding big changes like this, or else the community will be unhappy if they're completely ignored and feel like what they want for the server and their opinion on server matters is meaningless.  

Edited by Spergburger
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You know. When you buy cars which you will never have in real life and you buy them here, instead of GTA online, where every guy either kills you or you don't even have the possibility to roleplay with anyone really and your cars, because of constant interruptions of hackers/modders/cheaters and what not... I don't know anymore.....

The problem really was, that everyone could/can buy a car, even if you are a criminal. Which in real life wouldn't even be possible in the first place. You could only buy cars from a certain "market" or bribe the car dealers I guess.

Now you limit us from super cars. There are other fast cars who have similar performance. If someone wants to VDM, escape the cops, they will just buy Sports car with similar super car handling instead (Banshee 900R, Schafter V12).

There are car lover's, car collectors like myself, who heavily roleplay around their cars, also super cars. I have three of them and every car for me has a different identity. I call mine "mood vehicles". Depending on my mood (basicly), I drive around with them accordingly, carefully, sometimes I step on the pedal when I feel safe, but I don't drive 200 km/h, 24/7 through the city, because I certainly know the consequences and I roleplay every scratch.

This leaves a very sour feeling for myself.

Thanks for listening.

Edited by Com783
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There are a lot of people who feel pretty burnt by what happened here and the lack of transparency, long time players and staff members included. I'm merely suggesting that going forward things are handled very differently in regards to situations like this. Remember that this is a server for people to play on and have fun, not the admins who make up 5% of the playerbase to decide that what they want on the server is what's right, and what the community thinks is irrelevant.

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I donated to the server to recieve credits to buy what cars I wanted and in retuen that money went on developing the server and keeping it running. I don't understand why that is being stripped away from me now or the reasons behind it. The fact is, if there isn't anything else I feel is worth the credits then I'd prefer my money back. I help the server stay up but I have my thank yous taken away? Not acceptable.

I have a both IRL and IG love for cars of the 80s and (I know the Sultan RS isn't 80s but my other cars are) thus I've loved owning my Infernus Classic, Comet Retro, Turismo Classic and Sultan RS to bits and use them in alternation for different things in my RP life. It means a lot for me to have them and I planned on expanding my collection but if I get refunded 2mil+ worth of cars, what exactly do I have to spend that on? The businesses are taken up, housing market is over saturated, the cars left behind will be non-desireable and I'm not going the criminal route just to stave off boredom.

Edited by TGBDalton
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1 hour ago, Spergburger said:

I didn't say that the community's best interests aren't in mind, I said that people might start to think that it's not if big divisive changes like this continue to be made without getting the publics opinion on them beforehand. Considering how many people were shocked by this update I highly doubt that as many people were asked about it as you claim there were. Also asking the PD about anything criminals do is always going to have a negative reaction. Remember when they thought 10 hour jail times were a good idea? I'm not calling out the server and saying it's bad, I'm suggesting that in the future there is more transparency regarding big changes like this, or else the community will be unhappy if they're completely ignored and feel like what they want for the server and their opinion on server matters is meaningless.  

After thinking about it a little bit Scott, I do kind of agree that there should be questions and alternatives before making a jump like this. I apologize for jumping to a conclusion so quickly, I should have thought about it a bit more. After seeing so many community member's opinions, I agree that this was handled poorly, but to a certain degree. I do feel that we should have tried putting rules in place before taking them away, however I still completely support the reasoning behind what was done today. Once again, sorry for jumping to conclusions, but once again, I'm not sure if this update is a permanent thing, it most likely won't be, as there will probably be rules in place and harder ways of obtaining super-cars in the future, in the event they are re-added. Thank you for reading.

Edited by TheFluciFial
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@TGBDalton You are one the guys that really cares about his vehicles and you are clearly not using for criminal stuff or anything of the sort.
IMO, you are one of those rare players that do deserve a supercar.

You are paying for those making an alt, dropping their 600k cars in there and start causing trouble and run away from the police. Or those buying a supercar for this exact same reason.

''If there's no supercars, what's the point of grinding money?'' Maybe not grinding it and actually RP with others, organise events and such. Again, I see some people complain about not having enough cash, but on the other hand, everyone wants a supercar and does eventually get one after hours and hours of grinding.

We could have a maintenance cost applied on cars based off the distance they have been driven which could be a random amount between x and x based off the import price of said car. The more distance driven, the more chance the maintenace cost would happen. This could create a realistic used car market and up to a point, driving a car would cost too much money and it would need to be scraped removing cars from the game. I know this sounds painful to you and it sounds painful to me as well but that would be a realistic approach towards what the real costs of owning a supercar is. (I know this requires heavy coding but it is a potential solution).
 

Edited by Captain Tofu
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23 minutes ago, TheFluciFial said:

After thinking about it a little bit Scott, I do kind of agree that there should be questions and alternatives before making a jump like this. I apologize for jumping to a conclusion so quickly, I should have thought about it a bit more. After seeing so many community member's opinions, I agree that this was handled poorly, but to a certain degree. I do feel that we should have tried putting rules in place before taking them away, however I still completely support the reasoning behind what was done today. Once again, sorry for jumping to conclusions, but once again, I'm not sure if this update is a permanent thing, it most likely won't be, as there will probably be rules in place and harder ways of obtaining super-cars in the future, in the event they are re-added. Thank you for reading.

No worries, and I never meant for my comments about the community being ignored to offend. I'm not arguing about the merit of keeping or removing supercars, since that's an entirely different topic, I'm agreeing with you on how this was handled poorly, and making a suggestion that in the future this is not how it should be handled at all. If this suggestion isn't taken note of then consider it a warning, because if people who have spent hundreds of dollars and hundreds of hours of their time on a server feel like they're being ignored they will leave.

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I'm for both side I see the frustration but just like a wipe is needed this will help get rid of something and you are getting refunded. Not to say they are going to be just removed in my opinion I think they will be back and more rare to get making it more valued. We are all assuming why they took it away we dont have an actual statement yet from why the decision was made. So people jumping the gun is a bit ridiculous in my opinion but I can tell you this I support and not support the decision but mostly support for the pure fact they can bring them back and make them more rare so when you see one on the street you are like woah man check it out instead of oh just another super car. That is my opinion.

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My issue with the removal is simply that I feel it wont fix anything. The people abusing super cars should be handled/instructed on proper fear rp/veh fearrp. Removing supercars only punishes those who admire high end vehicles. The issue will remain that people with the mentality and attitude that abused SC's will continue to do so, only with other vehicles. The issue is not the vehicle, but poor rp and poor player interactions.

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My other issue is that the server has changed some catagories for cars. The Infernus/Turismo Classic are classics, not supers in vanilla GTAV but the server classes them differently. I don't think that's fair on people like me who genuinely collect them to admire and love them, not fucking ram the police and try to run.

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why dont they just make car impound, so who ever goes chases with cops and so ever police allowed to impound car in some lockd up locations for days period, maybe it would make them think again before doing it, and every next time impound would be longer , just my opinion. 

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