COPS / CRIM

[RJThompson]

20 hours ago, SquirtleSquad said:

They do not have 175, 200, 500, 5000000 AP available. Anything beyond 100 is reserved for special divisions and under special circumstances. The fact that this rumor continues to be spread despite multiple High Command of PD and SD debunking this is just outlandish. Stop spreading this, and move on to ACTUAL meaningful discussions.

actually, myself being in PD. DSU get 150ap which PO3(maybe even po2 not sure) and above can get, metro have 150aps which po2 can be in. all detectives and higher im sure get 150. and id say thats 50% or more of ACTIVE PD/SD, so to say what your saying is barely any members of LEO get over 100ap is outlandish itself. if i was to log on right now id say 20/35 members would be able to access 150ap+ and mk2 weapons. and now since not being able to play positions to get right hands, we are officially cooked bc now we have to face check cops with these aps and mk2s, which im not fussed because id rather not fight cops eitherway. but now theres no chance, its just put your hands up and go to jail  

Edited June 7, 2025 by RJThompson

[alexalex303]

2 hours ago, RJThompson said:

actually, myself being in PD. DSU get 150ap which PO3(maybe even po2 not sure) and above can get, metro have 150aps which po2 can be in. all detectives and higher im sure get 150. and id say thats 50% or more of ACTIVE PD/SD, so to say what your saying is barely any members of LEO get over 100ap is outlandish itself. if i was to log on right now id say 20/35 members would be able to access 150ap+ and mk2 weapons. and now since not being able to play positions to get right hands, we are officially cooked bc now we have to face check cops with these aps and mk2s, which im not fussed because id rather not fight cops eitherway. but now theres no chance, its just put your hands up and go to jail  

As an official faction member you have had access to both 200 AP and 175 AP, which is higher than PD, and you could equip it on all faction members, not just specialized divisions. Since you are a PD member could you also tell me which MK II weapon "po2s in DSU" have access to? Unless you claim that 20/35 online members are all swat.

[Marksy]

3 minutes ago, alexalex303 said:

As an official faction member you have had access to both 200 AP and 175 AP, which is higher than PD, and you could equip it on all faction members, not just specialized divisions. Since you are a PD member could you also tell me which MK II weapon "po2s in DSU" have access to? Unless you claim that 20/35 online members are all swat.

We were accidentally given 200 APs, they are to be changed to 150 whenever it's gotten around to, however when they were 200 AP's nobody was supposed to be using them, so if people were then that's a problem, just wanna clear that up from the crim side as well

[ShawnsBeard]

22 hours ago, SquirtleSquad said:

Last time I'm going to say this. PD/SD does not have 200AP. Get off this echo chamber that they are with 200AP. If everyone is going to make this accusation, and constantly says "yes but", "we all know", or "I've heard this" or "X said so", then present that evidence from recent situations. Otherwise, move on from the AP values, as that's been debunked. These arguments and statements are along the lines of the 20 YouTube Channels "proving a Flat Earth". 

I will post this here, as this has been said by Senior Staff (Osborn specifically) multiple times surrounding this.

 

Discuss other things you want balanced and keep it tasteful.

How hard is it for you to simply admit that cops did have 200 AP before, but now no longer have access to it? That may be where the confusion for some is coming from, because many people know for a literal fact that cops did have access to 200AP at one point, most are probably just unaware that they no longer do. The community and this conversation in general might be a little bit more welcoming if we could all learn to communicate properly 

[alexalex303]

44 minutes ago, ShawnsBeard said:

How hard is it for you to simply admit that cops did have 200 AP before, but now no longer have access to it? That may be where the confusion for some is coming from, because many people know for a literal fact that cops did have access to 200AP at one point, most are probably just unaware that they no longer do. The community and this conversation in general might be a little bit more welcoming if we could all learn to communicate properly 

cops have not had 200AP armor for more than a year, ever since the new uniforms.

ironically, since then, criminal roleplayers received access to 200AP, helicopters, and MG MK IIs.

Edited June 7, 2025 by alexalex303

[SquirtleSquad]

3 hours ago, RJThompson said:

actually, myself being in PD. DSU get 150ap which PO3(maybe even po2 not sure) and above can get, metro have 150aps which po2 can be in. all detectives and higher im sure get 150. and id say thats 50% or more of ACTIVE PD/SD, so to say what your saying is barely any members of LEO get over 100ap is outlandish itself. if i was to log on right now id say 20/35 members would be able to access 150ap+ and mk2 weapons. and now since not being able to play positions to get right hands, we are officially cooked bc now we have to face check cops with these aps and mk2s, which im not fussed because id rather not fight cops eitherway. but now theres no chance, its just put your hands up and go to jail  

The comment which you are quoting stems around 175+ armor. 150 is 25 less than 175. The highest value of armor that can be obtained in the /fl menus is 150. Go look at Osborn's comment. Stop misdirecting and misquoting.

 

43 minutes ago, ShawnsBeard said:

How hard is it for you to simply admit that cops did have 200 AP before, but now no longer have access to it? That may be where the confusion for some is coming from, because many people know for a literal fact that cops did have access to 200AP at one point, most are probably just unaware that they no longer do. The community and this conversation in general might be a little bit more welcoming if we could all learn to communicate properly 

We're not talking about "then", we're talking about now. Since the clothing update, the highest armor that could be equipped, locked under specific divisions, is 150. This has been cleared up multiple times since the clothing update dropped and yet it is still a false statement that everyone circles back to. 

 

Both of you go read this comment from Osborn who breaks down the armor with photos. Or better yet, look at Silky's post which has a video of it a few comments down. Stop focusing on the past and look at the now.

 

[ShawnsBeard]

3 minutes ago, SquirtleSquad said:

We're not talking about "then", we're talking about now. Since the clothing update, the highest armor that could be equipped, locked under specific divisions, is 150. This has been cleared up multiple times since the clothing update dropped and yet it is still a false statement that everyone circles back to. 

Which is why, instead of being overly passive-aggressive and demeaning on a discussion thread where people only want the server to improve, we could maybe spread clarification and come to an understanding as a community? It is an extremely tacky look to have administrators barge onto threads and try to little-man those having a conversation instead of contributing positively. There in lies the reason these threads get 'out of hand', because people like you will take any sort of comment/suggestion as a personal jab rather than what it should be - a discussion.

[SquirtleSquad]

14 minutes ago, ShawnsBeard said:

Which is why, instead of being overly passive-aggressive and demeaning on a discussion thread where people only want the server to improve, we could maybe spread clarification and come to an understanding as a community? It is an extremely tacky look to have administrators barge onto threads and try to little-man those having a conversation instead of contributing positively. There in lies the reason these threads get 'out of hand', because people like you will take any sort of comment/suggestion as a personal jab rather than what it should be - a discussion.

Well there's no need to make a personalized attack. My comment was towards the countless number of responses saying "PD has access to 175 AP or 200 AP" as a factual statement of today, thus assisting with spreading clarification. If you felt my comments were demeaning, then I don't know what to tell you, but look at all my comments in here which was aimed at discrediting this outdated information. They weren't demeaning, and people should focus on the now and what could be done to improve the now. My responses have only been when people still are under the premise that LEO's still have access to high AP values in their faction loadout.

[Skiperz]

I am an advocate that crims should never be able to win vs gov, simple and easy. However, reading through the arguments, I can see people complaining about the MG Mk2 and the 200 APs crims received. The 200 AP was a mistake, plain and simple, and FM is reversing it to 150; no one is using them or selling them. But I am certain there were, ofc, some isolated cases. Again, no one is perfect.

1 hour ago, alexalex303 said:

ironically, since then, criminal roleplayers received access to 200AP, helicopters, and MG MK IIs.

My man, you know I got nothin but love for you, but dancing on the same fucking line over and over about the 200 AP, ignoring the fact that many people said FM is reversing it and it’s been only two or three weeks since they were given out as a special import, is, respectfully, annoying. The helicopter incident with OTF is again an isolated incident, and staff are looking into it; it is not an everyday measure for you to be concerned about. For the MG Mk2s, they come with a heavy price tag for basic import AND tax, they’re not free. I’d happily state that 85 % of the crim player base cannot afford it or see it as a waste of money, and I’m pretty sure even with it being around a group of people, it hasn’t changed the course of that many situations with cops. Only 2 gangs had access to it, I could say it was abused as some people decided not to tax on it, making it a bit more manageable but not to the extent of it being free. 

I’d say 75 % of the crim player base has not carried a 100 AP, and even if they do, it’s always in a crim vs crim situation, since battles vs cops are not profitable nor winnable (again, I support this, as they should never be). There are not many people who can move 100 AP around. And as a member of one of those gangs, we haven’t had anyone request it or the MG Mk2 for a while, given their price tag.

It is indeed a very powerful weapon, but that didn’t stop cops from getting it too. While I understand this was a counteractive action, it leveled the playing field along with some amazing weaponry like the tactical SMG, Heavy Sniper Mk2, and Marksman Rifle; plus, ofc, the gunship :D. Now, the scarcity of them in law enforcement’s hands due to ranks or internal restrictions is only fair, as again, they come with a heavy price tag. Add to that lower ranking cops have access to pretty amazing Mk II weapons like the Bullpup Mk2, Carbine Mk2, and Pump Mk2; never mind detectives also getting the AK Mk2.

Again, I’m not complaining. I see that it is fair for everyone. It wouldn’t have been if cops were stuck with bone-stock carbine rifles and .50s like the good old days.

In my humble opinion, the current situation is fair for everyone. Crims are never supposed or meant to overpower cops, and that can be seen in the range of different toys and gadgets. Crims live on quick, small picks before running from the cops. If cops feel they’re losing too much, maybe it’s time to rethink their approach to hostile situations and improve their gameplay. It’s not about running in and shooting, that’s what crims are supposed to be doing. You’re supposed to tactically strategize and approach. There had been many situations where cops had tactically gripped the situation and fighting back was not on the table. But running into situations like headless chicken is always a death sentence and calling for losses. While crims do indeed set ambushes and get the element of surprise on cops, it is always available for cops to retaliate back harsher and harder. Good old days of you holding Langley and Osborn at the gas station to be met with the heaviest suppression checks known to ECRP. 

To the main discussion:

I love it the way it is right now, the variety of options create a more enjoyable environment. Unlike the plain old carbine and AK days with some special imports every here and there.

Helicopters are a fundamental assets to law enforcement, I am down to keeping them as they are. No one is supposed to be permanently abusing their 240 car vs law enforcement slow ass cars. People are supposed to assess the situation before carrying it out, not because we (crims) got guns means we need to shoot anything that breathes or moves anywhere and anytime; pick your fights and take your losses.

Thermals might be a bit too OP, indeed, but it is only fair to what the crims do be doing around the server. 

Adjusting the APs for crims or cops is unreasonable. It is perfect the way it is; 100 for crims and 150 for cops (aside from the most recent special import which I believe it should've been limited in quantity and priced higher). 

I'd love to see more value to smaller robberies, like stores, atms and chopshops. It's become dull to logon, go to lab, fight, log off. Other activities are not as profitable or enjoyable. Something like ATMs, it's a death sentence, very little percentage get away with it due to the constant transmitter, and the fact it slows your vehicle down drastically and you easily get a million cop on your ass.

GND patrolling labs is not a GND problem. It is a whole issue with cops sitting outside labs "speed trapping". But again, it is only reasonable because 85% of crims are lousy and slow. They see a lab and they wanna fight regardless of lab's placement or anything. Disregarding all measures you can take to avoid cops. You do not have to force fights in all situations and crims are offered suppressors to help attract less attention but you see someone letting their weapon rip right next to the highway and not expecting cops to respond to sit there after multiple different fights from the same location. Some lab like sewers, I've not seen it open more than a couple of hours. And while almost everyone agrees it is the best lab, people just don't care and want to shoot instead of using the lab to their advantage. 

Edited June 7, 2025 by Skiperz

[exaal]

3 hours ago, alexalex303 said:

As an official faction member you have had access to both 200 AP and 175 AP, which is higher than PD, and you could equip it on all faction members, not just specialized divisions. Since you are a PD member could you also tell me which MK II weapon "po2s in DSU" have access to? Unless you claim that 20/35 online members are all swat.

bro not every gang got the 200 AP's and definetly not enough for the whole gang. Dont go around for a year now that Crim has 200 APs forever when it was a one time thing. You think that they got APs so now every fight they are going to they will be equipped with 200 AP bro wake up

[Cup]

Personally I think doubling the payout for every criminal activity not involving drugs (atms, stores,banks so on) would actually do a lot to curb some of these issues just by itself. 

Currently the risk vs reward for these activities (minus banks maybe) is just not worth it to most people which funnels people towards labs. Labs by their nature are bound to eventually become hostile but the payouts possible make the risks far more worth it. Labs by their nature encourage people to bring out their bigger guns and armor which in turn encourages Leos to bring out the bigger guns and armor when they respond. Rinse and repeat.

 

[Odinn]

Here's my take on everything.

If LEO can have access to something, so should the criminals.

For example, once Pump Mk2s got yoinked from the imports list, LEO still had access to it, HOWEVER As far as i am aware, the Pump Mk2 was reintroduced as a random special drop item, thus making it available again, in a very very limited quantity.
 

If LEO can wear 150 AP, then criminals should also have the ability to own 150 AP.

Same goes for the combatMG Mk2. I have personally seen recently, a SED Operator actively patrolling with a MGMk2 on his back. If LEO hate it so much, then just don't use it. from what I have been told, is the MGMK2 is not importable any more, if someone else knows otherwise, please inform me.

 

As for the removal of all MK2 firearms. I strongly disagree with this. namely for this reason:

Criminal factions receive "Extra" Pistols at Tier 3. removing MK2 pistols, is only going to shorten the list of weapon availability, and could potentially affect the factions lore. A faction that want's to remain quiet isn't going to want a revolver or a .50. They would want smaller more concealable guns to remain accurate with the lore they have already established and laid out.

If they remove the Tier 3 reward, or you have a much much more limited selection of guns, then what's the point of Tier 3 existing entirely? 

 

Mk2 weapons aren't all end game guns. For example, I mainly run around with a PistolMk2. Offers quick shots, does less damage then a 50. When I was in SD I used the same exact thing, albeit with the hollow-point rounds in SD.  There's balances in these things, despite some people ignoring the balances.


Now, onto the helicopter.
I have seen someone mention the HSW mods and vehicles being too fast. Isnt that the point? You make more money to get a faster car? PD and SD both have high speed units. Its a gamble every time you run. a helicopter shouldn't be deployed for every little pursuit. Sure, if its responding to a bank robbery or a homicide evasion, then its a different story. You are chasing someone who either just murdered someone, or just robbed a bank, that makes sense to me.  But actively having Air on stand-by, sitting on top of Maze Bank for a pursuit shouldn't be happening.

We are all here for two reasons. 1. To roleplay, and 2. Have some fun.

[WindEZ]

4 hours ago, alexalex303 said:

As an official faction member you have had access to both 200 AP and 175 AP, which is higher than PD, and you could equip it on all faction members, not just specialized divisions. Since you are a PD member could you also tell me which MK II weapon "po2s in DSU" have access to? Unless you claim that 20/35 online members are all swat.

Po2 - Pump

Po3 - Carabine

People wasting their time saying removing Mk2 weapons clearly didnt get the message, remove MG MK2 not all the weapons.

 

Edited June 7, 2025 by WindEZ

[pasha9]

Hey gang

I’ve been banned for like a year or maybe more, but I wanted to share my thoughts from the 3 years + I played on the server.

       1. MK2 Guns: I didn’t get the chance to play much after the MK2 guns were added but now I’ve seen clips of people using them and they’re crazy strong. People don’t even get to react. I think fights were way more fun before MK2 guns were added. Just my opinion. (Edit: just saw Charlie's reply that people have paid for gun skins. thats no good... i guess the nerf would be the best option here)

      2/3. Helis: I think helis are okay overall. Crims have fast cars cops have helis it balances out. But I do have two suggestions:

• Make helis run out of fuel faster.

• Make snipers unable to shoot from helicopters.
  It’s really annoying when they snipe you from far away and you can’t even hide properly because objects don’t load at that distance. Everything else like shooting ARs from helis is fine.

  4. AP: It would be great if APs were equal for both sides. I mean almost every time PD/SD have more people than gangs (now the only reason I'm saying "almost every time" is because I know they don't have numbers in the mornings) and I know they get smoked every morning BUT then 10-12 hours later they get fucked by cops when GNDs come online. so some PD/SD die be upset for 30-60mins but later night the entire crim is getting fucked by GND now crims are gonna be upset for 4-5hours and PD/SD enjoy the show.

  Cops can just respawn, go to the station, clock back in, grab a new car and guns and act like nothing happened. They lose almost nothing just like 1k for food and drink. But crims? They waste ammo, need to fix their cars, buy painkillers, pay for new APs just to get wiped out 10 hours later. so I do believe giving both sides 100AP max is fair.
  
  5.Add more value to small robberies: It would be nice if store and ATM robberies gave more money. Right now I don't think the risk is worth it.
  
  6. Add something else to crim to do as a group: There used to be a time when “Cartel” sent gang leaders missions to steal a car and bring it somewhere. That was cool. I think it would be fun if NPCs around the map (just like the drug dealers or smuggler NPCs) gave small tasks, like:

• Go to this place, steal a car, and bring it back (less money if it’s damaged).

• Pick up a illegal package from somewhere.
  
  (for group things now I'm not sure if this is possible to add)

• Missions where you need your gang to go to a place with NPCs guarding it. You fight the NPCs, cops might hear the gun shots and they respond, other gangs might show up too. (you can make it like a bank robbery you're gonna need x members OF YOUR FACTION and x number of cops for to be able to do it) I know not everyone likes NPCs in RP but I think it could be fun and add more gang content. its a silly suggestion but why not share it.
  
  7. GND rolling labs: now im not sure about "rolling labs" but they do sit outside labs and picklock cars that they know who the owner is to get a reaction from them.
  
  
  That’s all. I just wanted to share my ideas even if some are a bit random. Thanks for reading kiss kiss.

Edited June 7, 2025 by pasha9

[Kazjii]

From someone who is one-of-two people who makes decisions on how hard to push crims and how much force is deployed from SED's perspective, we cater how much metal we bring out depending on your actions. We are reactionary. For insight, we have already tapered back our use of our own MG MKIIs since we are seeing less of them now.

If we are being gunned down off traffic stops with MG MKIIs with crims wearing body armor, I am mandating a gunship to be in circulation at all times with an armor piercing MKII on the side and all operators are to be fully geared. If you want to shoot at cops for sport, you should be ready for pushback. You cannot even really reference "Oh in IRL, Swat wouldnt shoot from helicopters" - well yea, but criminals are also not rolling around in body armor with light machine guns in downtown LA. 

The thing with these threads that make me laugh is that its always the same thing. LEO has unlimited resources. LEO has "200" ap. LEO has blah blah blah. Unless you have played LEO, you will not see how many times we lose: 

• Getting shot, killed and wiped
• Losing the same meta car several times since we do not have a car that can keep up with said meta cars - the helicopter has a 50/50 chance of keeping up with it on straights.
• Player begins to go swimming and we lose sight of him
• This list can go on and on and on

I have said this multiple times and I am talking to a brick wall at this point, but maybe if crims played their "gang banging" character more like a thug and not a militarstic rebel, you would not see as extreme measures taken on you and your gang.

I am not saying LEO is a perfect breed, but if it takes the crim community to take at least a little bit of accountability, then I am afraid that we will never see the light of day where a mutual understanding is had.