Benefits for criminals from police

[EimaTrG]

Hello Gamers,

I'd like to discuss a potential change that could have a significant impact on our RP dynamics: allowing civilians to acquire and use the firearms currently exclusive to law enforcement officers. This proposal has sparked considerable debate, with concerns ranging from increased violence towards PD to potential abuse of power by civilians. However, I believe this change is warranted for several reasons.

Firstly, recent adjustments to the server's economy, such as increased MD service costs and the introduction of the casino, have negatively impacted everyone's finances. In light of this, providing civilians with access to PD firearms could offer a new avenue for economic advancement. For instance, individuals who successfully apprehend or neutralize officers in planned encounters could be rewarded, compensating them for their efforts.

Of course, the primary concern revolves around the potential for chaos and abuse. People will argue that this change would encourage excessive violence and undermine the integrity of RP scenarios. However, I propose a series of safeguards to mitigate these risks. For instance, if an officer is kidnapped, held up, or killed, their missing firearms could be reported as stolen through official channels. Subsequently, anyone found in possession of these firearms could face severe consequences, including immediate property raids or even charges of murdering a government employee.

Additionally, law enforcement agencies could implement stricter protocols for firearm handling and storage, ensuring that officers are held accountable for any weapons lost or stolen during encounters. This approach would maintain realism while discouraging reckless behavior.

Having experienced both sides of the law as a player, I understand the concerns of both civilians and law enforcement officers. However, I believe that granting civilians access to PD firearms could enrich our RP experience by fostering more nuanced interactions and strategic gameplay. Ultimately, while this change may require careful oversight and adjustment, I am confident that it has the potential to enhance the depth and realism of our server.

Thank you for considering my perspective on this matter. I look forward to further discussion and collaboration on how best to implement and manage this proposed change.

[Clank]

If PD can access a list of anyones owned/accessible properties, accessible keys, vehicles as well as being able to access those respective and public parking lots and safes Id have no problem supporting this. Sadly PD must jump through endless hoops including needing admins to do any of those mentioned. Phone records were already deemed "too powerful" which is a joke considering the level of work you need to get a warrant for them.

[heelsoul]

+1, I support this because it makes no sense for criminals to fight police without any gain. For instance, imagine a scenario where a solo criminal with a standard gun like the .50 gets pulled over in a felony stop and decides to evade, resulting in the crim killing two police officers. Then getting killed a few minutes later by different officers. While it's realistic for the police to have substantial firepower, armour, backup it's unfair that criminals can't loot anything from them. It would be reasonable if, for example, the gun they were carrying got dropped and could be looted. After such an encounter, the criminal faces significant losses - the loss of the gun (8-10k); fines 10k+; 3 hour long jail time resulting in no tangible benefits from the confrontation. While the two officers he killed, just walk back to the station, get new gear and head out, losing nothing. 

My point being for example using this JUST THIS SCENARIO provided above, it doesn’t make logical sense for him to fight the police, because he doesn’t get anything from it. I think, if a solo crim kills 2 PD with a .50, which is SUPER DIFFICULT, while they have unlimited backup; free heavies; body 100 armour then he should be rewarded with something like their weapon they were carrying or anything. 
 

If something could be done about this, then this really wouldn’t affect PD at all, I don’t believe people would start DM PD, this is just a way for a crim to actually gain something from it when they do fight em.

[Bala]

9 hours ago, EimaTrG said:

Hello Gamers,

I'd like to discuss a potential change that could have a significant impact on our RP dynamics: allowing civilians to acquire and use the firearms currently exclusive to law enforcement officers. This proposal has sparked considerable debate, with concerns ranging from increased violence towards PD to potential abuse of power by civilians. However, I believe this change is warranted for several reasons.

Firstly, recent adjustments to the server's economy, such as increased MD service costs and the introduction of the casino, have negatively impacted everyone's finances. In light of this, providing civilians with access to PD firearms could offer a new avenue for economic advancement. For instance, individuals who successfully apprehend or neutralize officers in planned encounters could be rewarded, compensating them for their efforts.

Of course, the primary concern revolves around the potential for chaos and abuse. People will argue that this change would encourage excessive violence and undermine the integrity of RP scenarios. However, I propose a series of safeguards to mitigate these risks. For instance, if an officer is kidnapped, held up, or killed, their missing firearms could be reported as stolen through official channels. Subsequently, anyone found in possession of these firearms could face severe consequences, including immediate property raids or even charges of murdering a government employee.

Additionally, law enforcement agencies could implement stricter protocols for firearm handling and storage, ensuring that officers are held accountable for any weapons lost or stolen during encounters. This approach would maintain realism while discouraging reckless behavior.

Having experienced both sides of the law as a player, I understand the concerns of both civilians and law enforcement officers. However, I believe that granting civilians access to PD firearms could enrich our RP experience by fostering more nuanced interactions and strategic gameplay. Ultimately, while this change may require careful oversight and adjustment, I am confident that it has the potential to enhance the depth and realism of our server.

Thank you for considering my perspective on this matter. I look forward to further discussion and collaboration on how best to implement and manage this proposed change.

Since you are all about economic advancement, can I have a percentage of your fine's for arresting you? Individuals who successfully arrest or neutralize criminals in unplanned encounters could be reward, compensating them for the efforts. Especially since cops get paid for the hour regardless of what they do.

Of course, the primary concern revolves around the potential for chaos and abuse. People will argue that this change would encourage extra charges and undermine the integrity of RP scenarios. 

I feel that profiting off of your arrest would enrich my RP experience by fostering more nuanced interactions and strategic gameplay.

In all seriousness though, it's not about RP at all, it's about incentivizing shooting at cops and there is absolutely nothing in this for PD. As for the Casino, bro, no one is forcing you, leave the blackjack table alone LMAO.

38 minutes ago, heelsoul said:

+1, I support this because it makes no sense for criminals to fight police without any gain. For instance, imagine a scenario where a solo criminal with a standard gun like the .50 gets pulled over in a felony stop and decides to evade, resulting in the crim killing two police officers. Then getting killed a few minutes later by different officers. While it's realistic for the police to have substantial firepower, armour, backup it's unfair that criminals can't loot anything from them. It would be reasonable if, for example, the gun they were carrying got dropped and could be looted. After such an encounter, the criminal faces significant losses - the loss of the gun (8-10k); fines 10k+; 3 hour long jail time resulting in no tangible benefits from the confrontation. While the two officers he killed, just walk back to the station, get new gear and head out, losing nothing. 

My point being for example using this JUST THIS SCENARIO provided above, it doesn’t make logical sense for him to fight the police, because he doesn’t get anything from it. I think, if a solo crim kills 2 PD with a .50, which is SUPER DIFFICULT, while they have unlimited backup; free heavies; body 100 armour then he should be rewarded with something like their weapon they were carrying or anything. 

If something could be done about this, then this really wouldn’t affect PD at all, I don’t believe people would start DM PD, this is just a way for a crim to actually gain something from it when they do fight em.

It makes little sense for criminals to fight police period, but it has to happen sometimes for it to be interesting. Monetising that though, under the current system would be an absolute dumpster fire. The reward for downing cops chasing you, is you getting away. 

Not believing that people would start DMing PD is very naive.

[Clank]

9 minutes ago, Bala said:

The reward for downing cops chasing you, is you getting away.

People arent ready for that conversation just yet

[tigerpet15]

Big +1.

I like the idea of promoting more tactical RP. And the fact that cops getting killed would get more guns on the street would make them be more careful about their lives and their losses. If cop gets killed its like nothing happened he goes back on duty. If criminal gets killed he ends up in jail pay fines etc. Its hugely imbalanced and killing cops just to get away is just not worth it. I believe this change would encourage pd to restrict access to weapons with the risk of them ending up on street. Cops IRL carry just pistol with one shotgun in car which should have for example 15s timer to get out). This would balance out crims and cops shootouts and increase tactical RP. Right now in game every cop carries same firearms like a member of a swat team what is hugely unrealistic.

[Clank]

22 hours ago, tigerpet15 said:

Cops IRL carry just pistol with one shotgun in car

Yeah no.... This is not anywhere close to true. 

[Richie194]

I like the idea of gaining something after fighting however like others have said not just in this post but in several others before, it only pushes for more PVP. If a clap crew can get a hold of a few good heavies just by killing cops, they will do that. Maybe if it was easier to take guns off of officers when they are held up as a hostage or someone puts them under fear rp to actually drop their weapon would be better, therefore actually allowing rp to happen but i have no clue how that can be implemented. 

 

[tigerpet15]

+1

[TheCactus]

If we reward people for killing cops we're killing realism even more. Criminals in real life don't shoot cops and expect to gain something from it. They do it when they are desperate, as a last resort to get away. You should be doing the same thing on Eclipse unless they are raiding a place and shooting cops is worth the consequences.
If you injure or kill a cop, your reward is increasing your chances of escaping.

[tuccci]

-1.

 

All I'm hearing is- "Y'know how people sometimes start shit just to get DM rights on you for your gun? why don't we make it possible to do that to cops!?"

the IRL "reward" for killing a cop is you get to attempt to escape the country and spend your life on the run. (In a best-case scenario)

 

 

The root of all Criminal Roleplay problems (In my opinion) can be summed up by one fact- Criminal Roleplay and progression are tied directly to money, which is inflated to a point where criminals will do anything and everything to gain the money they need to progress their characters the way they see fit.

That's why even if you wiped PD and got away, You ultimately barely broke even, as the cost of ammunition is not disregarded. 

 

This could be solved in 1 of 2 ways- A financial reset or setting everyone in the city's cash back to 0.

 

(Not likely to happen, it's the idea has been tossed around I think.)

 

Creating a separate system of progression/money for use by criminals.

 

The system would need to ICLY be some form of bitcoin or electronic currency. It would need to be earnable by criminals for completing criminal activities (Give the player the option to redeem packed cash for BTC OR regular cash.), and the range of things buyable with BTC would need to be extremely diverse. (Guns Cars and Drugs) 

It would need to be tradeable from player to player and need to be protected from robbery from the OOC rules. (Similar to how the money in your bank is safe from robbery)

 

Suggestions like this are symptomatic of a larger problem with the criminal roleplay experience, and won't be fixed by making killing cops "More rewarding"

 

[Quietthecutie]

I'm Sorry i cant agree with this. also the timing is really currious as theres currently a live thread up for p much the same suggestion in it.

On 3/12/2024 at 8:47 PM, EimaTrG said:

For instance, individuals who successfully apprehend or neutralize officers in planned encounters could be rewarded, compensating them for their efforts.

You should never be "Rewarded" for getting into a fight with the cops. not monetarily at least. motivation for fighting law enforcement should come from RP, such as revenge, political movement etc. when you are a criminal and you hear sirens you should think "oh shit its the cops." not "oh goody its a resupply." and for all the talk of safeguards, that's what this will boil down to.  People would start attacking the cops under very poor justifications just because "bro he has a carbine on his back."