Change the current license suspension system

[berly]

I've been new to the server for the past week, and have had lots of fun.
I just purchased my first dirtbike last night after saving up, got me super chuffed.

While feeling out the bike, I autopilot a wheelie for no more than 15-20 metres, of which an officer witnesses and lights me up, wee-oo wee-oo. I pull over since roleplaying with police is fun and instantly initiating a pursuit isn't an authentic interaction for our situation.

I enjoyed my time RPing with the officers like I always have. The punishment feels adequate being a meaty fine and timeout for half an hour. Except this time, a new charge informed me that my license was suspended for two days. Oh no! I thought to myself, that'll be at least an hour each or something, guess I'll hang it up for the night. As I return the next IRL day, keen for some cheeky RP, I learn that my license remains suspended. Huh, weird. I contacted support and they let me know that yes, in fact, it'll be two entire days IRL until my license is returned. Now here's where I need to cut the etiquette. 

Bro what the frick?? TWO REAL-LIFE DAYS, FOR DOING A SINGLE WHEELIE??, is unimaginably petty, and in my opinion, a mechanic like this only contributes to pushing both criminals and police further towards their extremes.

The gameplay loop for cops and criminals requires a holistic approach from all parties, we are responsible for providing each other with roleplay opportunities and when the 'balance of power' becomes too lopsided, or begins to feel unfair, we get negative consequences. Now I've read through this thread's replies. I wished to know the LEO's side as well, and I agree, that arresting the same criminal over and over again would be annoying as hell, especially if they keep leading chases around the map and wasting time, only to be imprisoned, and released hours later to do it again. It's unimaginative and it's just milking a cat-and-mouse gameplay loop, but I think you'd find a correlation between the level of punishment, and what an individual would do to avoid that punishment.

Now equipped with the knowledge that the repercussions of license suspension are so harsh, any situation that might involve light RP or a simple arrest, I now feel obligated to engage in pursuit since the consequences will be severe either way, so I may as well guarantee I'll get most 'enjoyment' for my buck right? And now every officer will assume I'm just some jackass who wants to get chased constantly, so when they finally capture me, inflicting a punishment like a license suspension feels applicable. Furthermore, now that I know I can't retrieve or use my vehicle for two days, I'm just not going to engage with the server until the period is over, even though I'd quite like to. I think a system that perpetuates avoiding the game isn't ideal for player retention. I believe the current system promotes this way of thinking, and as a result, we get less roleplay overall.

The criminal gameplay loop already has so much risk involved, and consequences for those risks. To play a losing hand is fun if you know you'll get opportunities to roleplay and that any punishment would be valid. But to suffer the initial loss of items/inventory, then any fines or payments, then actual prison time, and then to have that loss affect you for multiple days afterward? yikes, jinkies, fair dinkum. 

The suggestions revolved around stacking demerits or based on recidivism seem like good middle-ground approaches.
I don't have a solution, but god damn can I point and say, that's a problem. 

[Bala]

Well, you'll think twice about popping a wheelie on a bike, in snow, in future so seems like it works.

DCC could use your business.

 

[Marcusandrew31]

4 minutes ago, Bala said:

Well, you'll think twice about popping a wheelie on a bike, in snow, in future so seems like it works.

DCC could use your business.

 

Again, comes to forum discussions to just say smart ass comments lmao. remember, your only a cop In game, try to save your time for some thoughtful comments and not some sly ones. Thanks Bala!

[fweasy]

18 minutes ago, Marcusandrew31 said:

Again, comes to forum discussions to just say smart ass comments lmao. remember, your only a cop In game, try to save your time for some thoughtful comments and not some sly ones. Thanks Bala!

bros talking about making smart ass comments as he just made a smart ass comment.

[Bala]

46 minutes ago, Marcusandrew31 said:

Again, comes to forum discussions to just say smart ass comments lmao. remember, your only a cop In game, try to save your time for some thoughtful comments and not some sly ones. Thanks Bala!

It's only a "smart ass comment" if you take it that way.

Guy popping wheelies is 'dangerous' enough, but then he's doing it in snow when we're supposed to be somewhat more mindful of how we drive/ride. Ended up having to face the consequences of his actions then complains about it.

It's a teachable moment, we've all had them and now he's having his.

I could have just told him that the time a license is suspended is an in-character issue, decided by in-character means and complaining about the length on a thread complaining about it's length, is somewhat pointless.

[BlueFlame]

@Balayou should calm down man its just a game...

[berly]

1 hour ago, Bala said:

It's only a "smart ass comment" if you take it that way.

Guy popping wheelies is 'dangerous' enough, but then he's doing it in snow when we're supposed to be somewhat more mindful of how we drive/ride. Ended up having to face the consequences of his actions then complains about it.

It's a teachable moment, we've all had them and now he's having his.

I could have just told him that the time a license is suspended is an in-character issue, decided by in-character means and complaining about the length on a thread complaining about it's length, is somewhat pointless.

Yes sir I've learned my lesson, I'm going to ensure I get more value out of my criminal mischief before I'm penalised the same either way. Apologies if my post came across as baby rage complaining, it was off the cusp thoughts on a suggestion thread revolving around a game mechanic that impacted me, and which I believe falls victim to a negative feedback loop which we can improve upon for both playstyles and the benefit of the server. I appreciate you not just telling me that it's an IC issue, since that comes across as a head-in-sand approach when attempting to discuss something like server mechanics, but perhaps my unfamiliarity with the server ecosystem has me biased in which discussions belong IC or OOC. 

You say it's pointless posting here, but I'd hope a suggestion thread is a place to voice concern about a gameplay mechanic.
Irrelevant from my personal circumstance, I think it's a net negative mechanic and thought I'd add my cents explaining why instead of a +rep.

[Smoke1]

Hey let's all just agree license suspension is a bit extreme and rp on a peddle bike in a blizzard isn't ideal 

[Cup]

Just reposting my thought for a compromise. Keep the 24 license suspension but have it be on the demerit system. 3 demerits is a suspension still. Charges that would normally suspend your license instead give you a demerit, and have it be that you could only get 1 demerit per arrest.

 

 

[CalvinKlein]

15 hours ago, berly said:

I've been new to the server for the past week, and have had lots of fun.
I just purchased my first dirtbike last night after saving up, got me super chuffed.

While feeling out the bike, I autopilot a wheelie for no more than 15-20 metres, of which an officer witnesses and lights me up, wee-oo wee-oo. I pull over since roleplaying with police is fun and instantly initiating a pursuit isn't an authentic interaction for our situation.

I enjoyed my time RPing with the officers like I always have. The punishment feels adequate being a meaty fine and timeout for half an hour. Except this time, a new charge informed me that my license was suspended for two days. Oh no! I thought to myself, that'll be at least an hour each or something, guess I'll hang it up for the night. As I return the next IRL day, keen for some cheeky RP, I learn that my license remains suspended. Huh, weird. I contacted support and they let me know that yes, in fact, it'll be two entire days IRL until my license is returned. Now here's where I need to cut the etiquette. 

Bro what the frick?? TWO REAL-LIFE DAYS, FOR DOING A SINGLE WHEELIE??, is unimaginably petty, and in my opinion, a mechanic like this only contributes to pushing both criminals and police further towards their extremes.

The gameplay loop for cops and criminals requires a holistic approach from all parties, we are responsible for providing each other with roleplay opportunities and when the 'balance of power' becomes too lopsided, or begins to feel unfair, we get negative consequences. Now I've read through this thread's replies. I wished to know the LEO's side as well, and I agree, that arresting the same criminal over and over again would be annoying as hell, especially if they keep leading chases around the map and wasting time, only to be imprisoned, and released hours later to do it again. It's unimaginative and it's just milking a cat-and-mouse gameplay loop, but I think you'd find a correlation between the level of punishment, and what an individual would do to avoid that punishment.

Now equipped with the knowledge that the repercussions of license suspension are so harsh, any situation that might involve light RP or a simple arrest, I now feel obligated to engage in pursuit since the consequences will be severe either way, so I may as well guarantee I'll get most 'enjoyment' for my buck right? And now every officer will assume I'm just some jackass who wants to get chased constantly, so when they finally capture me, inflicting a punishment like a license suspension feels applicable. Furthermore, now that I know I can't retrieve or use my vehicle for two days, I'm just not going to engage with the server until the period is over, even though I'd quite like to. I think a system that perpetuates avoiding the game isn't ideal for player retention. I believe the current system promotes this way of thinking, and as a result, we get less roleplay overall.

The criminal gameplay loop already has so much risk involved, and consequences for those risks. To play a losing hand is fun if you know you'll get opportunities to roleplay and that any punishment would be valid. But to suffer the initial loss of items/inventory, then any fines or payments, then actual prison time, and then to have that loss affect you for multiple days afterward? yikes, jinkies, fair dinkum. 

The suggestions revolved around stacking demerits or based on recidivism seem like good middle-ground approaches.
I don't have a solution, but god damn can I point and say, that's a problem. 

The suggestion / thread was initially opened by me, mostly for players like you who dont have 9 vehicles out there to just use after a suspension, while it inconveniences me, its just not as much, and when analytically thinking about it, it serves no one no value and takes away from people who want to play the server, and / or are limited, because again this isnt a city with traffic, crowd, transportation system where you get around x to z etc, losing mobility on GTA is very de-motivating for some players to play, for me it is just an annoyance i can brush off, given I can have people drive me, or give me a vehicle, or take one of my other vehicles, but critically speaking on the general player, its an unhealthy mechanic, and you as a somewhat new player, described the experience and analytics of it better than me or anyone on this thread, so thank you

[Bala]

You know what else is an unhealthy mechanic?
People doing illegal or foolish shit then complaining when it's time to face the music.

When I've played on my crim character, I've not even bothered to get a license. You don't need it to drive, just need it to get your car out of impound. Not only do you have the option of taxis, you could just steal a car and use that. Not even your gas you're using then, don't have to pay for parking and if you happen to roll it or drive it into a tree, it's not your problem.

Your license being suspended for 24 hours isn't that much of an inconvenience, only if you insist on things being your own way.

[Marcusandrew31]

17 hours ago, Bala said:

It's only a "smart ass comment" if you take it that way.

Guy popping wheelies is 'dangerous' enough, but then he's doing it in snow when we're supposed to be somewhat more mindful of how we drive/ride. Ended up having to face the consequences of his actions then complains about it.

It's a teachable moment, we've all had them and now he's having his.

I could have just told him that the time a license is suspended is an in-character issue, decided by in-character means and complaining about the length on a thread complaining about it's length, is somewhat pointless.

look at the way you responded to me, no comments just pure straight reason and explanation. Love to see the change out of you keep up the good work.

[Bala]

23 minutes ago, Marcusandrew31 said:

look at the way you responded to me, no comments just pure straight reason and explanation. Love to see the change out of you keep up the good work.

Thanks pal, gunna go in game now and suspend some licenses.

[Marcusandrew31]

7 hours ago, Bala said:

Thanks pal, gunna go in game now and suspend some licenses.

Keep this OOC please dont mix please. Thanks, its an OOC discussion, as a modder i would assume you know this.

[dominator]

+1 change the timers on this suspension to make it feel more appropriate for the crime.

 

Yesterday I was going a bit too fast on the highway and I saw some lights come out of the bush and eventually caught me. My license is now suspended for a 1 IRL day and my only BIKE is impounded. For going a bit too fast on the highway? nah sounds kinda lame, now I might as well either not play for 1 day or play on my LEGAL character.

 

I had VIP so I was out of prison in barely 10-15 minutes and after that I just walked around a bit and logged off. 

Edited May 17, 2024 by dominator

[Quietthecutie]

8 hours ago, dominator said:

+1 change the timers on this suspension to make it feel more appropriate for the crime.

 

Yesterday I was going a bit too fast on the highway and I saw some lights come out of the bush and eventually caught me. My license is now suspended for a 1 IRL day and my only BIKE is impounded. For going a bit too fast on the highway? nah sounds kinda lame, now I might as well either not play for 1 day or play on my LEGAL character.

 

I had VIP so I was out of prison in barely 10-15 minutes and after that I just walked around a bit and logged off. 

this is the point we keep circling back to.

If your license is suspended, you cant get your car outa impound, if its stuck in impound, youre either passenger princessing until your license is unsuspended or you simply cant play on that character. 

[GodDammitKopi]

Pro tip drive on a suspended license like I do.

[Commander783]

On 5/17/2024 at 3:25 PM, dominator said:

+1 change the timers on this suspension to make it feel more appropriate for the crime.

 

Yesterday I was going a bit too fast on the highway and I saw some lights come out of the bush and eventually caught me. My license is now suspended for a 1 IRL day and my only BIKE is impounded. For going a bit too fast on the highway? nah sounds kinda lame, now I might as well either not play for 1 day or play on my LEGAL character.

 

I had VIP so I was out of prison in barely 10-15 minutes and after that I just walked around a bit and logged off. 

You don't get your license suspended that easily, but oh well.

[Jellay]

Man I hate losing my license to SD! @RedHot fix please!