Repeated suicidal behavior

[Lynn Foster]

Could we add to Rule 14.  or somewhere under FearRP or NRP something similar to the rule for kidnapping/hostage taking?

"All included players may not take another hostage for 1 OOC week if police are involved. "

So something like; Players may not attempt suicide again for 1 OOC week if police or EMS are involved or if successful their reasons for doing so are removed by NLR.

It's bad enough that some players will (unrealistically) rp that they will commit suicide if they're not given x, y, or 100k, but it's even more draining when they turn around and repeat it after being treated.

[Lynn Foster]

Sorry I meant to put this under rules suggestions.

 

[AtlasOLimbo]

As far as I know, suicide RP is already not permitted. I could be wrong though.

[Lynn Foster]

We get CRU calls for it, so fairly certain it's permitted.  When well done, it is deep and rewarding RP and should be allowed in my opinion.  Though as it could be considered taking yourself hostage, I think its frequency should be restricted.

[Requiem]

To my understanding, suicide RP is OK as long as its done naturally and has good reasoning behind it.

Example of GOOD suicide RP: Someone lost their job, their only friend died and has fallen into deep depression. They decide hurt themselves by cutting their wrist with broken glass.

Example of BAD suicide RP: Someone gets caught by the police or a rival criminal organization and decides to use their own life as leverage, wanting money or freedom in exchange for not jumping off a ledge to kill themselves when they have no history of suicidal tendencies or mental issues.  

I generally don't have any issue with suicide RP as long as its not done simply for personal gain or for NRP reasons. If its legit RP with good backstory, I don't feel it will be abused and therefore wouldn't need to be limited.  

[pixiejewels]

On 11/23/2023 at 5:22 AM, Lynn Foster said:

So something like; Players may not attempt suicide again for 1 OOC week if police or EMS are involved or if successful their reasons for doing so are removed by NLR.

This should already be covered under NLR.  The rules states:

Upon a player's death, all parties involved in the death should forget the memory of all information and any negative interactions and events leading up to the death. 

Information prior to the death should be completely forgotten and is no longer a valid justification for any future hostile action against those involved.

This indicates that, once a player has full died because they did not receive treatment in time, then the reason for the suicide must be forgotten and any future attempt must have a different RP reason.  

[Ash]

32 minutes ago, pixiejewels said:

This should already be covered under NLR

It’s not quite that simple, people who attempt suicide rp end up surviving nearly all of the time since md are always there on the scene so the script (and rules as they stand) never allows them to die, and therefore nlr.

This creates a pretty infinite cycle of the same few people pushing suicide rp up to multiple times a week from what I saw in CRU. I believe this is the point Lynn is trying to make more politely (correct me if I’m misinterpreting it).

I think it’s the people who make that kind of RP their whole personality and are a demanding resource on MD that is the target for this proposed rule change. 
 

If that is the case though, maybe MD could consider some alternatives to deal with repeat “customers”. What that could be, I don’t know, but I guess irl they’d be committed to some sort of center idk?

Edited November 27, 2023 by Ash

[pixiejewels]

26 minutes ago, Ash said:

If that is the case though, maybe MD could consider some alternatives to deal with repeat “customers”. What that could be, I don’t know, but I guess irl they’d be committed to some sort of center idk?

It would be nice to use one of the empty hospitals as a psych hospital.  CRU could use it as a primary office and have their appointments there. This would allow for a more realistic CRU RP as it would be more private, and patients could be "admitted" if the RP calls for it. We already have a Fire Station for FD. It could even be on that same property as there is another building by the parking garage there.  

 

1 hour ago, pixiejewels said:

This should already be covered under NLR

When I mentioned this I was referring to only situations where they did full die from late or no treatment.  Not every suicide intervention attempt is successful.  If they die they are under NLR, if they are successfully treated then they are not under NLR.  I attempted to clarify that in my statements under the quoted rule, however that intention may have been lost as it was separated by the quote. 

[Bala]

I'd put this kind of role-play in the same basket as hostage situations or prison breaks.
If it's something that is well thought out, is driven by a decent amount of roleplay and is not going to be something that someone is going to pull willy nilly then I'm all for it.

This is where a special scenarios team would be handy in the admin team for these kinds of situations. They could sift through these proposals and set conditions so that they can be properly executed. I think at that point also, you could introduce character kills as a consequence of these actions.

Someone tries to escape freedom but wants to put it their character on the line and they get killed doing it? They die, and roleplay comes from that death.
Someone wants to take a header off the Construction Crane after days and weeks of depressive roleplay but kill their character doing it? Fair enough.

What isn't helpful is every bank robbery to turn into a hostage situation, prison breaks every night and repeated suicide attempts from the same person because they are bored. All of which has happened in the past, as @Ash alluded to.

 

[Cup]

I would agree that maybe, a 7 day OOC waiting period for this kind of RP would be appropriate.

[Quietthecutie]

agreed. as a minimum NLR could be rephrased to make specific mention to suicide, as the wording is now, most players seem to interpret NLR to only apply to incidents that involve other players. chases, shootouts, violent interactions in general. as @Bala mentioned, this kind of thing can be interesting and fun if done right and in moderation. as the suggestion is coming from players with characters in MD's CRU, i am guessing its happening more frequently than it should which is diluting the whole experience

[Lynn Foster]

I don't think it falls under NLR, cause the player doesn't always die as has been pointed out, though I think having the 7 day period is a good idea in either case.  Having a simple restriction on the ooc amount of time can account for things like injuries/psych holds that we don't rp and give us an easy way to say "hey you just made a suicide attempt, you need to wait a week before trying again, please see rule X" and there is no room for arguing about motivations or need for reports or evidence of poor rp.

 

As I said I've had very rewarding rp exchanges involving suicidal characters, these are not the issue, I don't want the ability to rp suicidal behavior to be restricted, just the frequency.  We do have some players who don't rp it as well, use themselves as hostages for demands, and/or leave pillbox to go threaten to jump off of something again.  While a case can be made that this could violate other rules I think this solution is much clearer and simpler for everyone from the character trying the rp, to the medics, and even the mods/admins who would have to take any reports.