Change the waiting time for business licenses!

[CelesNebula]

I have been recently getting into trying to obtain a license and while looking into the requirements, I find the disqualification time period a bit extreme. 
As much as I understand that those waiting times have been put in so criminals can't get a license and it has to be realistic, I think the waiting period will not make people want to stay clean and make it harder for them to become legal citizens. I also have to say the waiting period, as an example for a simple felony like evading is too harsh. waiting 3 IRL months is demotivating and even more IRL half a whole year. While I talked to some of the players, others seem to agree that those terms are extreme and take the fun away from the game. I suggest to change it to the following:
1 Month Disqualifications can stay the same.
Change 3-month Disqualifications to 2 months. 
Change 6-month Disqualifications to 4 months. 
Maybe some other players have suggestions for the disqualification period  

Edited October 2, 2023 by CelesNebula

[Pootis]

+1 the wait time for some crimes is just too long, it's so hard to stay clean when you have to wait that long. 

[Travis Hawk]

+1 we might see a drop in criminal activity in this city if we really give people a 2nd chance and a new start. we seem to make it so difficult for them to get a fresh start and so easy for them to return to there life of crime 

 

[HobGoblin]

It used to be a lot longer, but it was already reduced recently after the gun update.

It used to be 18 months.

Edited October 1, 2023 by HobGoblin

[Nachos]

+1 the wait time for some crimes is just too long, it's so hard to stay clean when you have to wait that long. 

[CelesNebula]

16 minutes ago, HobGoblin said:

It used to be a lot longer, but it was already reduced recently after the gun update.

It used to be 18 months.

It still seems very unrealistic, even if this is the lowered time. I heard from a lot of players, that they have lives outside the game and just don't wanna wait that long to enjoy legal life. It's very hard for them to turn around and get a chance so they just go back to crime

[MrNeillio]

+1 - If the wait time is too unrealistic, people will get bored rather than try to reform. Whilst IC actions need IC consequences, these need to not be too harsh because at the end of the day, this is still a game and these wait times restrict some potentially great character developments. 

[ManaBunXD]

+1 This needs to be implemented. Changes need to be made imediately. We want to change quicker and this makes it quite difficult.

[NeonVT]

+1 we need more of a realistic because its just really unrealistic and its just bs that it takes soo long wed be better off if it was changed

[TheCactus]

1 hour ago, CelesNebula said:

I have been recently getting into trying to obtain a license and while looking into the requirements, I find the disqualification time period a bit extreme. 
As much as I understand that those waiting times have been put in so criminals can't get a license and it has to be realistic, I think the waiting period will not make people want to stay clean and make it harder for them to become legal citizens. I also have to say the waiting period, as an example for a simple felony like evading is too harsh. waiting 3 IRL months is demotivating and even more IRL half a whole year. While I talked to some of the players, others seem to agree that those terms are extreme and take the fun away from the game. I suggest to change it to the following:
1 Month Disqualifications can stay the same.
Change 3-month Disqualifications to 2 months. 
Change 6-month Disqualifications to 4 months. 
Maybe some other players have suggestions for the disqualification period  

Man the times were 6 and 18 months some weeks ago. I'd thank whoever lowered them and move on. Also how are they extreme? How is 6 months disqualification for murder "unrealistic"? If we talk about realism, it should be a permanent ban

Edited October 1, 2023 by TheCactus

[CelesNebula]

14 minutes ago, TheCactus said:

Man the times were 6 and 18 months some weeks ago. I'd thank whoever lowered them and move on. Also how are they extreme? How is 6 months disqualification for murder "unrealistic"? If we talk about realism, it should be a permanent ban

Let's not forget this is a game and people have lives outside of the city. We want people to stay and enjoy the roleplay. If people have to wait so long to have all rights as legal (including business), they will move on and go to a different server. I sadly saw this many times. Sometimes rp can feel very restricted and the license waiting time sadly adds to it. I agree, 6 months is realistic for murder, but not for actual gameplay and roleplay. 

[TheCactus]

5 minutes ago, CelesNebula said:

Let's not forget this is a game and people have lives outside of the city. We want people to stay and enjoy the roleplay. If people have to wait so long to have all rights as legal (including business), they will move on and go to a different server. I sadly saw this many times. Sometimes rp can feel very restricted and the license waiting time sadly adds to it. I agree, 6 months is realistic for murder, but not for actual gameplay and roleplay. 

I am sorry man but we already get slaps on the wrists for murder. You join the server to roleplay, so you must roleplay the consequences of your actions in a realistic manner. If that is not your intention, I am more than happy to see you join another server.

[SquirtleSquad]

This is an IC issue, not really an OOC policy.

[TheCactus]

1 hour ago, SquirtleSquad said:

This is an IC issue, not really an OOC policy.

Of course it is, like most things, but it wouldn't make sense to discuss this IC, would it? If you say "murderers should have gun licenses after 4 months" you're gonna get no support IC so it's more of an OOC discussion.

 

[SquirtleSquad]

43 minutes ago, TheCactus said:

Of course it is, like most things, but it wouldn't make sense to discuss this IC, would it? If you say "murderers should have gun licenses after 4 months" you're gonna get no support IC so it's more of an OOC discussion.

No, but bringing up changing of policies that's IC, is what I mean. Go to GOV and argue with JB/GOV about how it should be changed.  Whether it's valid or not, doesn't mean you can't try IC. You can literally try and argue anything IC to change IC policies, like arguing removing Face B from the Penal code. That's all I mean.

Edited October 1, 2023 by SquirtleSquad

[TheCactus]

3 minutes ago, SquirtleSquad said:

No, but bringing up changing of policies that's IC, is what I mean. Go to GOV and argue with JB/GOV about how it should be changed.  Whether it's valid or not, doesn't mean you can't try IC. You can literally try and argue anything IC to change IC policies, like arguing removing Face B from the Penal code. That's all I mean.

Man don't compare changes to felonies and FLD to face concealment B.

Edited October 1, 2023 by TheCactus

[MrNeillio]

4 hours ago, TheCactus said:

I am sorry man but we already get slaps on the wrists for murder. You join the server to roleplay, so you must roleplay the consequences of your actions in a realistic manner. If that is not your intention, I am more than happy to see you join another server.

I understand your point, but as previously stated, lengthy punishments can cause people to lose interest OOCly.

Whilst you might be more than happy to see those players join another server, if it meant the server became a lot quieter and there were less people to interact with, then I feel you might think differently.

Right now, the player count is not bad but I would say this suggestion would be helping towards quality of life and either slow the decline of players, maintain player count or increase player count. I don't see this suggestion having a negative impact on the player count and it would still ensure a punishment remained for what is still a lengthy time. 

I know we don't like to see change but I genuinely feel a suggestion like this is constructive. 

 

3 hours ago, SquirtleSquad said:

This is an IC issue, not really an OOC policy.

The implementation and policy itself is IC but there is definitely an OOC aspect to the discussion as there are some OOC arguments for this to change. 

[SquirtleSquad]

1 hour ago, TheCactus said:

Man don't compare changes to felonies and FLD to face concealment B.

Not really, it's literally say "I have an issue with X." The process for dealing with X is to argue it with Y. That's literally the point I'm making.

[SquirtleSquad]

17 minutes ago, James_Williamson said:

The implementation and policy itself is IC but there is definitely an OOC aspect to the discussion as there are some OOC arguments for this to change. 

As others have stated, this used to be an 18-month wait depending on the charges. So this has already been reduced due to internal discussions. I don't think there's a valid OOC argument, as all that's been stated is "this is an RP server" and "this is just a game". The latter argument is always the weakest argument, as it's trying to OOC justify IC consequences for IC actions. People want to always portray realistic action/consequences, but only if it benefits them, otherwise it's "it's just a game". I'm not saying you're explicitly saying it, just a generic overall it's been said by people.

[MrNeillio]

12 minutes ago, SquirtleSquad said:

As others have stated, this used to be an 18-month wait depending on the charges. So this has already been reduced due to internal discussions. I don't think there's a valid OOC argument, as all that's been stated is "this is an RP server" and "this is just a game". The latter argument is always the weakest argument, as it's trying to OOC justify IC consequences for IC actions. People want to always portray realistic action/consequences, but only if it benefits them, otherwise it's "it's just a game". I'm not saying you're explicitly saying it, just a generic overall it's been said by people.

I am sure that OOC factors were taken into consideration before implementing the recent changes ICly. - Ultimately, any change would have to be implemented with IC reasoning but the OOC argument has it's place too. 
 

I agree, there is always a stronger argument for realism from the side it benefits, however in this specific scenario, what negative impact does it have for either side? Anyone using a licence for illegal means would still risk having their licence taken away from them. 

 

[Kellie]

+1 

 

While I agree with SquirtleSquad, that this is something that has to be changed icly, I'd like to say that there is still some discrepancy here. Yes. It makes sense to have repercussions for getting arrested with murder, but given the nature of GTA itself and how the content of the game encourages crime (with people doing crime also being needed for multiple factions to work), locking people out of other roleplay opportunities feels more like a hindrance to a healthy server. 

TheCactus' argument doesn't really hold for me. People are getting punished for certain charges already. That is what prison is for. Excluding them from one of the bigger and more interesting parts  and then also telling them to just play somewhere else is a bit much. 

[Requiem]

18 hours ago, Kellie said:

+1 

 

While I agree with SquirtleSquad, that this is something that has to be changed icly, I'd like to say that there is still some discrepancy here. Yes. It makes sense to have repercussions for getting arrested with murder, but given the nature of GTA itself and how the content of the game encourages crime (with people doing crime also being needed for multiple factions to work), locking people out of other roleplay opportunities feels more like a hindrance to a healthy server. 

TheCactus' argument doesn't really hold for me. People are getting punished for certain charges already. That is what prison is for. Excluding them from one of the bigger and more interesting parts  and then also telling them to just play somewhere else is a bit much. 

Not being able to have a gun for a certain period of time due to IC consequences is not locking people out of roleplay opportunities. The only thing that not having a gun stops someone from doing is using them for illegal purposes (at which point you might as well go full illegal anyways), or something extremely niche such as a private security situation. If you want a legal character, and to have a legal gun license, why make the conscious RP choice to do something criminal, then complain about the repercussions afterwards? 

As SquirtleSquad said above, this is entirely IC as well. Nothing about the firearms licensing other than the script used to issue/remove them is OOC. This is a suggestion to take up in character, just like if you wanted the jail time served for a certain charge adjusted, you would bring it up IC to the Law Review Committee. 

[CelesNebula]

58 minutes ago, Requiem said:

Not being able to have a gun for a certain period of time due to IC consequences is not locking people out of roleplay opportunities. The only thing that not having a gun stops someone from doing is using them for illegal purposes (at which point you might as well go full illegal anyways), or something extremely niche such as a private security situation. If you want a legal character, and to have a legal gun license, why make the conscious RP choice to do something criminal, then complain about the repercussions afterwards? 

As SquirtleSquad said above, this is entirely IC as well. Nothing about the firearms licensing other than the script used to issue/remove them is OOC. This is a suggestion to take up in character, just like if you wanted the jail time served for a certain charge adjusted, you would bring it up IC to the Law Review Committee. 

Just to clarify, I am talking only about business licensing   Not gun licenses. 

[Requiem]

5 minutes ago, CelesNebula said:

Just to clarify, I am talking only about business licensing   Not gun licenses. 

Apologies, I misread the OP. On that note then, I agree that the time limits may restrict some RP opportunity, but my points regarding IC decisions stands. You can't commit felonies and expect to have little to no consequence. Times have already been improved as it is. And this is still an IC suggestion. 

[Puzzling]

On 10/1/2023 at 6:09 AM, Pootis said:

it's so hard to stay clean when you have to wait that long. 

I just want to say this sounds like a full and proper drug addict mentality.