NRP to dress like another gang for shootouts.

[Dola]

Right now the rules regarding dressing up as an "impostor" to fight a rival gang is that if you call your entire outfit over frequency than you are good and wont catch a punishment. However I have seen many times where this happends and still there is friendly fire/teamkilling (including myself). The reason for that is when you are in big intense 20 v 20 fights you tend to forget small things like someone calling out the outfit they have on. And with so many people there is a big chance atleast one person on frequency will forget the outfit you have called out especially with there being so many people in a fight there is also a chance you will mistakenly dress exactly the same as somebody else, not being able to differentiate between the two when bullets start flying. Also because gangs use this impostor strat, other gangs feel the need to have to do it to try even the playing field even though they dont want to. I've been in many fights against a rival gang where we know that there will be 100% an impostor so we are forced to switch into a different random colour before a fight to try avoid this meta from working. When I fight I want to represent my own gangs colours. IRL you would never see a big gang fight and see this impostor strat being used. This strat tears gangs away from their gang lore and it's honestly so annoying to play against.

There should be a written rule put in place in the NRP section stating something along the lines of "It is NRP for illegal factions to dress up like another illegal faction they intend to fight before or during the shootout".

Opinions?

 

Edited October 12, 2022 by DeanDolan7

[Killa]

What’s hilarious to me is that here linked in your montage (great RP by the way), there are 4 seperate occasions where you dress in the opposition’s clothing. However, when it gets done in return to you and you lose because of it, only now you decide to make a forum post. So it’s a -1 from me.
 

 

Edited October 12, 2022 by Killa

[kawalis]

-1, personally I don't see an issue with this as long as it's coordinated and you're not shooting your allies. 

Edited October 12, 2022 by kawalis

[Dola]

1 minute ago, Killa said:

What’s hilarious to me is that here linked in your montage (great RP by the way), there is 4 seperate occasions where you dress in the opposition’s clothing. However, when it gets done in return to you and you lose because of it, only now you decide to make a forum post. So it’s a -1 from me
 

 

Before you comment atleast read the post (if you can). 

I said "However I have seen many times where this happends and still there is friendly fire/teamkilling (including myself)"
I also said "Also because gangs use this impostor strat, other gangs feel the need to have to do it to try even the playing field even though they dont want to."

Shenzhen start using it so we start using it. 

[Alannn]

-1, i can't see an issue with this.

[Jorge Compass]

-1, I just find it odd that someone who has dressed as the rival gang in shootouts for the past 8 months is making a post regarding it. You are the primary person who goes imposter in all fights and after 8 months you suddenly want it to be non-rp.

Edited October 12, 2022 by Jorge Compass

[Yeager]

-1 As long as there is good coordination this should be fine, You shouldn't be making a suggestion because you don't know how to use the imposter strategy. Just communicate well and if you don't want to be shot by your own members don't do it. Your choosing to take the risk so don't complain. 

Edited October 12, 2022 by Yeager

[Dimja]

9 minutes ago, Yeager said:

 Just communicate well and if you don't want to be shot by your own members don't do it. 

Doesn’t everyone not want to be shot by own members?

+1 from me. Going into a shootout is already a big risk for your life and it makes no sense to add more risk by potentially getting teamkilled or the rival team finding out your an imposter. 

[Chris_]

Everyone else is saying -1 “just have good coordination” but Honestly I gotta agree with Dola, fighting in someone else’s color to me makes zero sense. Even if it’s “well coordinated” you run an extreme risk of ONE person out of the 20 on your freq, who didn’t listen to you and they end up smoking you. Also realistically you wouldn’t see a blood throw on blue to spin a crips block half the factions in this servers have the lore of “we wear this color or look this way proudly!” yet the only time they actually ever wear their color or look how they claim is at their gangs meetings. Other then that they’re in all black or dressing as the rainbow/opposing gangs. Ironically people love to play AmongUs in GTA V roleplay instead of actually repping their colors and it’s solely for the purpose of winning gunfights.

[nevetni]

+1 I agree with this and as someone who has been in many shootouts against and even with people doing this and has never personally done it because I believe it’s just completely nrp to do it. The only way I could see it acceptable is if it’s only used as a last resort, say there was only a few people on your side left and you were trying to get away or discreetly help your fellow injured gang members. The amount of times I hear the phrase “you’re shooting me you idiots” is insane (and yes, it’s BOTH sides I hear it from almost every big fight). Like just wear your own color and be proud of it. The only reason i personally go out of colors is when hiding from cops, being chased by an opposing gang solely for wearing green or when it is forced due to the opposing gang “impostering”. I think we just need to come together as a community and do better, not be so toxic to eachother and I believe impostering has a negative impact and, to be completely honest and in my opinion, promotes the toxicity that the crim side of Eclipse desperately needs to get away from right now. 

Edited October 12, 2022 by nevetni

[kawalis]

15 minutes ago, Chris_ said:

Everyone else is saying -1 “just have good coordination” but Honestly I gotta agree with Dola, fighting in someone else’s color to me makes zero sense. Even if it’s “well coordinated” you run an extreme risk of ONE person out of the 20 on your freq, who didn’t listen to you and they end up smoking you. Also realistically you wouldn’t see a blood throw on blue to spin a crips block half the factions in this servers have the lore of “we wear this color or look this way proudly!” yet the only time they actually ever wear their color or look how they claim is at their gangs meetings. Other then that they’re in all black or dressing as the rainbow/opposing gangs. Ironically people love to play AmongUs in GTA V roleplay instead of actually repping their colors and it’s solely for the purpose of winning gunfights.

You're making it sound as if you're fighting in rival gangs colours is to rep there colours, or fight for them. If we're talking about realism there are countless stages within the World War 2 where they impostered each other, not only with clothing but motor vehicles. Again if we're talking about realism that one person you're claiming is dumb on frequency, would and should be able to understand a line from the person impostering ' I'm at X location, wearing X out fit please do not shoot me ' I don't see how you can afford to not listen or comprehend a half sentence like that, going into an extremely life threatening fight, with such advantage if we're going to base this on real life events and realism. End of the day it being made out as though you're repping the oppsoing gangs colours out of love for them, where in reality you're using it against them I see it as nothing but a smart strategy. You also state that people love to play AmongUs solely for the purpose of winning fights, well that's the entire point, it gives a huge advantage, and I personally believe and I don't mean this in any disrespect that you've been a victim of this and you're tired of losing fights. If you're going into a gun fight you're going to do absolutely anything to win the fight, whether it's good sportsmanship or not. 

[Vepeax]

+1 as there is literally 0 chance for you to not get friendly fire/team killed. Because in the given scenario you simply will not be focused on your ally who's dressed as an impostor. There are other things to worry about in fights, such as surviving in the first place. You should care about your character's life the whole time, and not do dangerous action described above.

[kawalis]

8 minutes ago, nevetni said:

+1 I agree with this and as someone who has been in many shootouts against and even with people doing this and has never personally done it because I believe it’s just completely nrp to do it. The only way I could see it acceptable is if it’s only used as a last resort, say there was only a few people on your side left and you were trying to get away or discreetly help your fellow injured gang members. The amount of times I hear the phrase “you’re shooting me you idiots” is insane (and yes, it’s BOTH sides I hear it from almost every big fight). Like just wear your own color and be proud of it. The only reason i personally go out of colors is when hiding from cops, being chased by an opposing gang solely for wearing green or when it is forced due to the opposing gang “impostering”. I think we just need to come together as a community and do better, not be so toxic to eachother and I believe impostering has a negative impact and, to be completely honest and in my opinion, promotes the toxicity that the crim side of Eclipse desperately needs to get away from right now. 

Would you not consider a gang shootout, where all your members are present, there is a chance your gang might go extinct and then using the impostering strategy as a last resort NRP?

Edited October 12, 2022 by kawalis

[Dimja]

5 minutes ago, kawalis said:

You're making it sound as if you're fighting in rival gangs colours is to rep there colours, or fight for them. If we're talking about realism there are countless stages within the World War 2 where they impostered each other, not only with clothing but motor vehicles. Again if we're talking about realism that one person you're claiming is dumb on frequency, would and should be able to understand a line from the person impostering ' I'm at X location, wearing X out fit please do not shoot me ' I don't see how you can afford to not listen or comprehend a half sentence like that, going into an extremely life threatening fight, with such advantage if we're going to base this on real life events and realism. End of the day it being made out as though you're repping the oppsoing gangs colours out of love for them, where in reality you're using it against them I see it as nothing but a smart strategy. You also state that people love to play AmongUs solely for the purpose of winning fights, well that's the entire point, it gives a huge advantage, and I personally believe and I don't mean this in any disrespect that you've been a victim of this and you're tired of losing fights. If you're going into a gun fight you're going to do absolutely anything to win the fight, whether it's good sportsmanship or not. 

You are confusing gangs fighting with world wars. It was indeed done in WW2, but that was to gain intel as it would be a death sentence to try gun down the squad you are in. It does not happen between gangs IRL

[retronub]

59 minutes ago, DeanDolan7 said:

Before you comment atleast read the post (if you can). 

I said "However I have seen many times where this happends and still there is friendly fire/teamkilling (including myself)"
I also said "Also because gangs use this impostor strat, other gangs feel the need to have to do it to try even the playing field even though they dont want to."

Shenzhen start using it so we start using it. 

Unnecessary sarcasm and rudeness with (if you can). Please be more understanding that not everyones first language is English. No need to make this into anything else other than a friendly discussion. 
 

Regardless, the point that you only have started complaining about it now remains true. You have attempted to dress in other gangs’ clothes during since the dawn of time, but conveniently after a couple of losses where your own imposter strategy fails and the other gangs’ one works, now a forum post is necessary.

Do you honestly think you’d have made this forum post if you guys had won the shootout on Route 68 last night (the one I presume this forum post is about) 

[Dola]

1 minute ago, retronub said:

Unnecessary sarcasm and rudeness with (if you can). Please be more understanding that not everyones first language is English. No need to make this into anything else other than a friendly discussion. 
 

Regardless, the point that you only have started complaining about it now remains true. You have attempted to dress in other gangs’ clothes during since the dawn of time, but conveniently after a couple of losses where your own imposter strategy fails and the other gangs’ one works, now a forum post is necessary.

Do you honestly think you’d have made this forum post if you guys had won the shootout on Route 68 last night (the one I presume this forum post is about) 

I wasnt at the fight so no. But the fact Irish have to all go to a clothing store dress in yellow, white or any random colour to fight your gang is aids. And it's really only your gang that does it hence all the -1 from every immortal commenting

[Yeager]

3 minutes ago, DeanDolan7 said:

I wasnt at the fight so no. But the fact Irish have to all go to a clothing store dress in yellow, white or any random colour to fight your gang is aids. And it's really only your gang that does it hence all the -1 from every immortal commenting

We just outplay you guys..... its called Tactics

[Fupii]

Would be nice if everyone would stop being sarcastic to one another and keep the discussion productive!

I understand both sides of the coin but It's a + 1 from me. Purely based on the rp side of shootouts. You will never find any GANG (Not army) to not only drop colors but then go into a rival gangs colors for a shootout. You rep your gang colors no matter the situation, especially shootouts. It's gotten so bad to the point where you have to pick a color before a shootout because you KNOW the opposing gang will swap into your colors to imposter (taking away from the lore of the gang). It's annoying to not only fight against but to fight with. +1 for me.

Edited October 12, 2022 by Fupii

[Chris_]

8 minutes ago, kawalis said:

If we're talking about realism there are countless stages within the World War 2

This is gang banging on Gta and conflicts between criminal orgs. I wouldn't compare it to a World War. 

9 minutes ago, kawalis said:

Again if we're talking about realism that one person you're claiming is dumb on frequency

No one being dumb, just not listening or paying attention especially when fighting or about to fight its very hard to pay attention to everything going on at once. i.e. people talking in proximity and radio at the same time.

10 minutes ago, kawalis said:

End of the day it being made out as though you're repping the oppsoing gangs colours out of love for them

Never really said or intended for it to be took that way. Was making an observation that most gangs are out of colors or in someone else's more then their own

19 minutes ago, kawalis said:

I don't mean this in any disrespect that you've been a victim of this and you're tired of losing fights

Well never actually. My faction is smaller and doesn't really take too many fights.

[skeletee]

I was going to post a rule suggestion for this myself, as I had bought it up to other staff about 1-2 weeks ago, but you've beat me to it!

Generally, I have always rallied against dressing as other gangs for reasons related to faction lore and so on so forth, but for the purpose of this thread, my response will focus on the act of dressing in rival colours in combat scenarios. Please note that I am not opposed to players dressing as other gang members for the purpose of gaining information, in fact, I encourage this, as it initiates for further RP and scenarios, as long as it makes contextual sense.

I believe it should be ruled NRP to dress in rival colours solely for the purpose of fighting or gaining a tactical PVP advantage. These are the reasons below.

1. Unrealistic and deviates from faction lore. This point is first because it is quite self-explanatory. I don't believe in any realistic situation, gang members would carry a spare set of clothes to dress into prior to a fight. I understand that this server is we are simulating being criminals as much as we can and therefore not everything will be realistic by the book - such as using radiofrequencies to communicate - but this act of dressing as another gang for fights is not something that has been set as standard by the server, it is something that has been set as standard by the players. Therefore, it is something we, as a player base, have more agency in managing and controlling.

2. Poor demonstration of fear RP. Players should enter shoot-out with knowledge that they may die with one bullet, as opposed to 6 before their HP runs out. That being said, entering a shoot-out dressed in a rival colour places players at grave danger and should be considered detrimental to player's safety. If all it takes is one bullet to realistically (not by script) kill someone, players should be doing everything they can to minimise this danger. Dressing in a rival colour and simply calling it out to other players is not enough. When you're in a shoot-out, there is simply too much adrenaline and too much to acknowledge, that shooting anything remotely in a rival colour can become an easy mistake, regardless of if that attire has been called out. Yes, you use tactical advantages in shoot-outs to preserve your life, such as co-ordinating the way your cars will be set up, where people will be if something kicks off, high-grounds to low-grounds, who stands where if they have a close-range gun, who makes the calls, who will flank from behind.. Dressing as a different colour is not one of those tactical advantages that show appropriate preservation of life.

3. Promotes a poor RP mentality. As we're seeing in this thread alone, people are adopting the act of dressing in rival gang members for the purpose of fighting because others are doing it. This is simply not the direction that we should be going in in terms of RP standard. People should be leading their actions because that is what their character would do and because it makes sense to lore and to the faction, not because Jimmy from the other block did it and it was fine. Gangs and criminal organisations should be abiding to their faction lore, the way they present themselves to others, and carrying out RP that is specific to their faction lore. When people break this in order to gain a tactical advantage solely for the purpose of shoot-outs, this becomes an issue.

As for changing clothes mid-fight to flank a rival gang after you've been shot, or while you're getting shot, this would likely be considered NRP in itself as your priority should be to (a) keep fighting for your life or (b) escaping and saving your life.

This is obviously just my personal opinion. Perhaps I am missing something here, and that there is more RP opportunities to emerge out of this act of changing into rival clothes pre- and mid-fight. I'm happy and open to listening out to these!

EDIT: Let’s make sure we are focusing on the suggestion at hand, not the player behind the suggestion that has been made.

Edited October 12, 2022 by skeletee

[hrxvey]

-1 this is silly goofy and funny. as much as it is annoying, it's not like there are 10+ people doing it, there are 1-2 at most. it adds a bit of smarts to the fights and can be easily countered if the slightest bit of brain power is used in the situations. in my opinion it makes it more fun, and will always leave you with an insecure feeling in fights, making you watch your back and in my opinion make it more fun in general

this is me dying to a sussy impostor. https://streamable.com/k15t1f

[kevin romano]

-1 to me

 

[Sandiego]

I can't agree that more rules should be in place, it would just be an extra headache and forums would be getting filled up, we already have enough rules restraining the criminal factions. BUT it has gotten to the point where its actually terrible and happens every single fight, which makes things unenjoyable. I have been in ECRP community since 2018 and current criminal situation is worse than it has ever been (talking about the criminal player base). Peoples mindsets changed and they care way too much about their pvp ego, back in 2019/2020, Zetas, Aztecas, WCA, Triads, Wanted and others gangs, NO MATTER WHAT WAS HAPPENING NOBODY WERE CHANGING CLOTHES INTO A DIFFERENT GANGS CLOTHES, even if the fight was 10 v 30 back in those days I have never seen a single impostor in fights. People had respect for each other and understood that this is just a game not worth sweating over, everyone was having fun. But since we are at this day and age, where crim is already dying, and the player base is only making it worse I am starting to believe that the only way to fix it is by rules. There is a reason why there is only 2-3 active gangs in the server who show presence, back then there were 10 if not more. People are not willing to come to mutual understandings or have respect to each other regarding color dropping in fights, because they want to win and not enjoy the fights, because of their ego. 
Even in this post, people are being sarcastic and putting -1s without a valuable argument and making silly jokes which I find funny. I don't think you will enjoy criminal roleplay once all there is to fight and interact with is chickens in the hunting fields. Most people can agree that crim is dying, and its not just because of scripts, its dying because of the current crim player base, most people who have -1 this post have never seen the prime of ECRP crim, and never will if this keeps on going. Dropping colors is an unrealistic thing no matter what excuse you found, and back in 2020 and earlier, people understood that and that wasn't an issue, no rules were needed because people had mutual respect and wanted to have fun, currently it is not the case, and so I believe a new rule is the only way of improving it.

Edited October 12, 2022 by Sandiego

[alexalex303]

I personally find it to be the epitome of playing a game and not roleplaying a character. I do not know of a single realistic scenario in which you would dress up as the enemy in the middle of a shootout. People usually throw around false flag operations but those do not happen with you dressed up as the enemy, those happen with you dressed up as a third party, and are not usually combat missions.

In short, this is a GTA strategy and I do not like to see it.

+1

Also on an off-topic note, I think this is the first time I've ever seen a suggestion split by faction lines.

[sNo0BbZz]

Imma be honest, I really dislike the fact that "going imposter" is a thing. For the past 4 months ive been involved in shootouts where I always have to be weary of someone on the other side wearing same colors and also being careful to not shoot the person in my gang thats going imposter. 

I also agree that it is most probably a fear RP breach because if your rolling with 15+ people, even if you clearly described your outfit on your gangs frequency there is still a real possibility of someone shooting you in the heat of the moment because at the end of the day, your wearing the enemies colors and at certain distances, exact descriptions are ignored and you just see a color.

You can defo create some interesting RP by going undercover in another gangs colors but I think in the context of a shootout, its annoying and stupid.

As for deviating from faction lore, well it depends. If your in a street gang, you should always rep colors, as gang colors is what represents street gangs. As for mafia and high class gangs, colors dont really define them and it can be more flexible.

This whole going imposter thing really started being annoying during the Shenzhen and Irish conflict, before this it wasn't much of an issue.

But at the same time, if you want change, stop doing it yourself, simple.