Cops 2 OP

[WindEZ]

5 hours ago, SkyeFuryy said:

 

It is literally just stated above you that the focus after criminal updates will be revamping the DOC. I don't see how your comment carries any weight thereafter other than to ignite this debate.

“Criminal updates” If anyone is trying to ignite this topic is you even mentioning “criminal update” lets just call it general content at this point

Half of the people in this topic are missing the main point and you just think others just want to fight using a keyboard.

Leaks for an crime update / drug update are going around for what 1 year now ? No update ofc, then osva said the drug update is delayed anyway so gl with that

The people that are mad on this topic wont be happy tomorrow cause the devs will update DOC AFTER the crime update wich no one knows if is coming at least this summer.

Is so easy to say that to do this takes time, but then why you dont find an alternative to change things at least for a short period so people can see you care. - This is related to wait for crime update then wait for DOC update

[XeV]

9 minutes ago, AbsoluteBadonkers said:

if I remember correctly they only use TS for in character talk, like to talk to Dispatch, talk to each other about something specific, etc, I’ve witnessed multiple officer’s names go Red with radio usage when they “could’ve just used Teamspeak”, TS is not their main form of communication.

I personally do not enjoy that they get to bypass the use of "coughdrops" by using it during "tactical situations" as I have to sit here and get fucked over by an OOC issue that is the voip system when my allies try to relay information but sadly need a "coughdrop" and do not know.

And when I make a post about it like hey can we as crims use it for bank robberies and evasion I get hit with the fattest NO's 

[Straza]

Big +1 from me

Speaking as a now "ex" member of this community, I can say that PD were a big reason for my decision to leave it's simply not fun to spend hours and hours grinding just to get slapped with big fines and jail times where you alt tab for hours as the only RP in prison is peoples mics peaking and getting DM'd (There are several threads that cover how this could be improved So I won't go too far into this aspect) There really feels like there is a lack of incentive to play crim on the server.

My personal feelings towards the PD faction aside, there is definitely an uneven playing field when criminals have to work 3 times as hard to have an even somewhat fair advantage when they get their cars, gas, guns, armor etc free of charge but for a crim you need to dedicate hours and hours to have a stash to feel comfortable and financially stable with. Especially since cartels and illegal organizations in real life are just as kitted out (and in some cases richer) than their respective police forces.

This isn't me saying we should be richer and rolling deeper as criminals but I just want it to be FAIR. If you look at some previous reports some police players are let off on things that criminals would not i.e hostage situations and how the value of ones life is handled when there is a gun pointed at your colleagues head

Not to mention I (as well as more friends of mine than i can count) have been subjected to one police officer camping outside gang HQ's waiting for the slightest infraction to roll in and make an easy arrest.

"But you can file an IA" but as @XeV has stated, you might as well wipe your ass with that IA report as I have seen far more thrown out over actual violations being cited as hearsay rather than anything actually being done about it.

I love good RP with cops when handled right but I speak for more than a few people when I say this imbalance and how certain situations are handled is deterring people from coming back to this community.

Edited August 7, 2022 by Straza

[Melody Frey]

I would like to respond about a few things here:

1) "Skill Issue": This is the absolutely most atrocious and troll answer I've ever seen on a thread, this one is no exception. I have done prison breaks, gotten a faction to official from scratch, still frequently break friends out of custody, and will always take a fight against PD/SD when I see a chance of winning. The issue is the risk versus reward, and in almost all scenarios; the reward is not anywhere near the risk.

2) "File an IA report": I've filed an OOC IA report on a detective who openly metagamed and caught a DM punishment for opening fire on me with zero rights. I filed this IA report on June 9th/June10th-ish, and was never reached out to regarding the outcome. After I reached out on the 22nd regarding it; they said it was being looked into. I still have not gotten a response or definitive answer as to what happened with that since then.
I also reached out to leadership of PD regarding the use of the blue barriers to block roads as they give a massively unfair advantage due to desync; appearing extremely late and not breaking immediately at high speeds and will always flip and total your car. I was never reached out to again to see if this was ever even looked into.

3) Yes, DOC is in dire need of change and that would help smooth a lot over, but when you are caged for five hours in the same cells that are used for Admin Jail, you cannot convince me it's not an OOC punishment for being a criminal; but that's a totally different thread topic.

4) We need change, there's a massive rift between the playerbase that should at least be looked at. I don't mind starting small with changes, such as lowering jailtime again or the time of certain charges, or even just giving us more capable ways to counter play with PD/SD such as giving us more access to items such as carbines, spike strips, or maybe a turf increase for turning in badges of killed officers. I don't care what we get, we just need to start getting something.

[Felcon]

put prison cap to 2 hours again + make turfs/getting weapons less grindy to make crim less like a grind/mmo.

 

[connorc1]

huge +1 always been against that PD/SD can just spawn a new vehicle without having to RP.

[Purely]

-/+ 1

Hi! As someone who doesn't have a 'mainstream' crim, nor an LEO character I can take a non-bias view of this. 

Most of the issues with Crim vs Cops comes from lack of RP between the two making the whole 'RP' scenarios negative and not fun. Both sides need to give something back to each other to avoid the negative experiences.

Over-powered LEOs

The LEOs in the city are meant to be able to win to prevent 'gangland' from being the norm, it's designed that they have an advantage over an average criminal. There is plenty of times where LEOs 'lose' but that is normally down to being out-gunned, out-skilled or even from not knowing what they are meant to do. To say they are over powered is fine, but they are meant to be that way, or gangs would rule their area of the cities with PD not being able to shield the civilian/legal population from this. 

It's been mentioned, that paying for equipment, vehicles and fuel etc should be added to "take away their advantage" but I support this simply to add more immersive RP for LEOs, this shouldn't be locked to Law Enforcement Factions either, all Official Factions with the ability to take out equipment and vehicles should be treated the same.

Another key thing, which does actually push LEOs to be considered over-powered, is the reliance of Lethal Force, due to the FearRP rule as soon as an officer LEO points a gun at a suspect all RP that the person could add to a situation fades. Have fun, don't spam taze people instantly when they run, go for a parkour foot chase for a little bit, see where it goes, it opens the door for different and sometimes hilarious RP when you give people a bit of rope to play with. At an IC level I believe that aiming a potentially life ending weapon at someone who's just evaded from a ticket, as a law enforcement officer, is ridiculous. I live in Europe, and there is minimal cop shooting for this, so if that's an American realism thing, or just a server thing, I don't know. Let people have fun, and you'll be better for it.

Improvements to Criminals' experience

I've had the privilege to roleplay as an alternate type of criminal, and it's seriously been some of the most fun I've had on the server, and I know that LEOs also enjoyed the RP I was able to provide them with because it was designed to encourage active and fulfilling RP. I mention this for one simple reason, we are all here to RP. We joined ECRP and some of us who've been playing for a long time do so still because we really do enjoy RP. If criminals WANT to RP with Law Enforcement, give them some rope too, allow a situation to be more enjoyable for both sides. If you've just run away from a shootout where you've been shot and PD have pulled you over for speeding, utilise /do to make your scenario your own, "yes sir" "no sir" "you're a pig sir" "thank you sir" isn't fun, it's repetitive and neither side benefits from it. Using your skills as RPers you can make a simple traffic stop meatier and slightly more enjoyable for either side, that's just one example but as we know you can actually make almost anything more enjoyable with a little creativeness and effort. 

If your RP involves you needing to get to point one to point two, and a police stop is the last thing you want, do what @SkyeFuryy mentioned, drive normally, lower your suspicion level, that is ROLEPLAY, having a motive/mission and acting as though you want to be able to achieve that under any circumstances simply makes sense. Having an AK on your back, and being pulled over for going 120kmph past Burgershot is your fault. 

Use your creativity to outweigh the LEOs tactical advantage. I know @Melody Frey used RP to beat PD in many ways, and it's something that should totally be explored more, if winning scriptly doesn't work, try something else until changes are made.

Improvements to Law Enforcement's experience

This will also include other legal factions, DOC and MD namely. 

Similar to what I've been mentioned above, we're all here to enjoy the world of RP. Not mentioning individuals, as it's a long list, but in all legal factions that frequently interact with civilians and criminals alike there are robotic members. People who have their script, and stick by it, when making an application to join one of the government agencies you're required to give a background to the character you want to play, and if you are a black and white, cut and paste of a person, you'd be denied. One thing that is so often missing from interactions from faction members and non faction members is that colourful roleplay that your characters are meant to have. 

Law Enforcement, if you want people to stop shooting at you, if you want people to stop being 'assholes' to you, talk to people, build respect, be a character who wants to enjoy their work, just because you're not in your community relations department ICly doesn't mean you can't interact with people. Give people opportunities to RP with you, and allow yourself to enter other people's roleplay, you don't have to control the direction 100% of the time, you'll have much more fun, and so will they if you switch it up. (Within reason, don't get into a stranger's van pls).

DOC, you have a pool of people in your cellblock that are bored, they've just been given 6 hours of prison time by the over-powered LEO factions (lol). Talk to them. Interact, if you think there isn't enough to do, ask for things, script might be limited but as an RP server you can ask @Chunder to add items from the furniture store, be creative.

LSEMS, it doesn't matter if it's a civilian who fell off of their BMX or a gang member who's been shot during a gun fight, RP with them. That doesn't mean the robotic, copy and paste "/me looks over the person for injuries" "/do what do I see?", talk to them, elevate from ticking the boxes to drawing on the corner of the page, make people think you aren't just a means to 'not die' but a person who's trying to save their life. 

Closing

This thread does raise concerns, and rightfully so, but learn from other people's posts. At the end of it the staff team and development team can't fix things if points aren't raised. Voicing concerns is absolutely the best way to help a community, but only when done right. 

Edited August 7, 2022 by Purely

[Aldarine]

After reading through the discussion on this thread we have made the decision to lock and archive it. Along with this, we would like to clarify/reiterate a few things mentioned and advise on how to proceed going forward. 

- Faction Salaries/Budget: All factions are capped at a maximum of earning $8,000 per hour which is only obtainable by high ranking members in said faction. The average member of a faction makes between $5,500 - $6,500 per hour depending on rank. The vast majority of members within legal factions sit within that range whereas the limited High Command within a faction make the higher amount. It has been commented as well that many people would not be opposed to updates to budgeting in terms of vehicle/equipment pay.

- TeamSpeak: The reason certain factions utilize TeamSpeak is due to the inability to conduct the same actions with radio communication while in game. A considerable amount of testing was done previously and proved that present radio scripting is simply incompatible. To be able to convert TAC to a proficient in game system is something heavily desired - please do not think otherwise, however, development time is better served on content for the server at large since TeamSpeak is heavily moderated already and does suffice for its purpose. As mentioned, this avenue is extremely moderated and those who conduct rule breaking behaviors in TeamSpeak are dealt with just as every player is, including but not limited to admin punishments and faction reprimands that can lead to removal. TeamSpeak is not intended to bypass situations or create an unfair environment, it is simply a solution to a long standing issue. In the future we would enjoy seeing this brought in game, however, it is a complicated process and time is presently better served elsewhere content wise.

- LEO Protocols / Criminal Balancing - Law enforcement factions are set up in a manner to be reactionary. This means that there has to be some form of balance and adjustments when criminal players begin to rely heavily on things such as “meta vehicles” or repeat tactics. While we cannot go into specifics regarding In Character protocols, we can say that it is strived to make things fair. Does this mean it is perfect? No, things can always be improved and that is where respectful discussion and meaningful suggestions come in. As one example of balancing that has taken place is vehicle related. Many vehicles exist in the same capacity and are available to both LEO factions and civilians. This was intended to create a more equal field so something like a chase would be more up to skill as opposed to one sided vehicle enhancements. That said, law enforcement does need some upper hand as that would only be realistic and we aim to always improve and even the scales.

- Internal Affairs: Each faction has an Internal Affairs system in place to review both IC and OOC matters that take place. This system is always recommended as the first line of communication. Now, some people may say that they will not bother with making an IA report, however, we encourage the opposite. It is unfair to make claims and accusations yet have no follow through in terms of a report that will enforce review and potential repercussions. Internal Affairs was created for the sole purpose of holding people accountable, it's up to you to use it. To address any issues with Internal Affairs that people believe may exist, Legal Faction Management (see below) is intended as another team to hold people accountable.

- Legal Faction Management/Roleplay Feedback: On the government website there is a roleplay feedback form available for LSSD. This form is for any and all feedback both positive and negative that community members may see from the faction. Please utilize this. The more feedback that is received, the further we can move forward addressing matters as well as potentially expanding on this form and relaying information to other faction leaders. Along with this, Legal Faction Management is available to all players for a conversation which can (and has) addressed concerns, furthered explanations and prompted change. Utilize this team to your benefit to promote healthy and meaningful conversations. If you feel that something is not being handled appropriately in a faction (such as Internal Affairs) do reach out. They are here to listen and help.

- Faction Slander: This is something that is not appreciated in the server. We strive for healthy conversations amongst all because all the end of the day we are all human and want to have fun while playing in this server. Going forward and slandering factions will not lead to change and will only prompt back and forths in an unhealthy manner that we have seen so many times in the past and leads to negative feelings and resentment. We can easily work as a team to better ourselves and the server but what comes first is understanding that there is a human behind the screen trying to have an enjoyable time. While some times may not be as enjoyable as others, majority intention is never malicious so again, work together.

- Prison: Many have mentioned the lack of activity in prison as well as the time frame. It goes without saying that SADOC is in need of further development and this has been established as the next priority project to be worked on.

- Suggestions: While we understand that the suggestions thread is fairly large, the Staff Team has taken a better approach to reviewing suggestions (please be patient with us through this). This can be seen with numerous comments regarding implementation as well as the condensing of the section. Please make thought out suggestions for us to review. If you would like to see change come that would be beneficial to the server we highly encourage this. If you do make a suggestion, always be sure that it is fair, pros/cons are weighed and that you are open to feedback. This has the ability to further conversation and ease the path to future implementation.

Thread archived.