CalvinKlein

100%, however another staff member could tell you, no "it's alt RP" since there is really no written guidelines whatsoever and its more opinionated when coming to small matters like that, for instance you are a passenger seat at a car, and you try to drop something from the window via proper roleplay, even giving a /do to the other party, to prevent any PG and you're hit with "you scriptly can not drop items out of a vehicle so its alt rp" luckily in one of those scenarios cops like Samuel Collona agreed on roleplaying this with myself after having a quick discussion on pms and ppl like him actually encourage people on using /me's and /do's rather than the typical cops v robbers since realistically as a criminal there's so many situations you can get out of by being smart, hiding , throwing shit away, without just going for your classic GTA chase / or ECRP's Demands -> shootout // I don't think script limitations should be there to prevent realistic roleplay, and that ALT RP SHOULD NOT BE A THING... However to maintain order and balance in the server, there needs to be a list of certain things (specific incidents) where you need SA approval, but I believe the Term ALT RP itself should not exist as its a restriction and limitation, specially when all action based RP is looked down upon now, and the server is trying to transition its playerbase from a light RP community to a heavy RP community (At least what the last rule updates have been working towards over the past year indicate) to be able to create more "Roleplay" ALT RP should not exist.

Alt rp needs guidelines, and those guidelines need to be clear and rp should be less restricted by script , and facilitated instead

+1

I like this but in most cases when you get pretty creative and try to come with new In depth & interesting RP, you are hit with "it's alt RP if it is not script supported " , which is an unwritten rule and has such a grey area, and kind of limits and stops good roleplay from happening, I feel like that needs some looking-into and needs to be written and more specific as it is VERY VERY VERY rare that you report in game for a senior admin and get a response let alone get the approval

unfortunately after the last update to drug tables, their profit / risk rate is too low that its not worth it anymore

i like this one, the ability to hack their communications or etc.. would be dope to have it scripted since nowadays itll be considered Alt rp and you most likely wont manage to do that

+1 anything to improve drugs / crim rp overall

theres already a turfs system with dynamic influence and import abilities based on the influence

+1

@IAmTurtle @Cade_Winslow yeahh the sad part is it’s so rare / hard to get “alt rp” approval as a crim even tho we’re “encouraged” to find unique and special roleplay (other than scripted features (cooking etc) / robbing ppl ) but then everything you want to do is alt rp & nearly impossible to get approval for roleplay on the spot.

As a crim who's part of a big gang, I get into lots of situations with cops, and in some cases I dodge charges even with a mask on, for example Coyer was arresting an ally of mine, we held him up and left, next thing based on the look of my character (masked the entire time) I willingly go into a PD scenario to retrieve my drag , with no mask on and he starts screaming "It's him it's him, that guy held me up x hours ago "he had a micro and was shooting with a micro" - when I only aimed a .50 without firing a single shot at him, forced a GSR test on me after cuffing me etc, then had to let me go - however the person was not happy with this and decided to file a crime report on MYSELF, not just suspicion but saying that my RP character did x x x without ever confirming anything, And to be very fair and honest, it did result in Fun RP between myself and Cynthia Shelby, and my Lawyer Aldari , however and sorry if bringing your name bothers you, due to situations like that I feel like its impossible for me personally to RP my character properly without being masked 99% of the time, even if I go speeding past someone going 200 and they attempt to chase me and fail to do so I'll be getting the felony evading charge because my alias would show for 1 second as I drive past them

good shit

I’m about to sleep so I’ll respond to the rest of your response later since it contained useful suggestions but I wanna comment on this one since it’s brief @Bala - you mentioned something about alliances but don’t get me wrong you were not there behind the scenes ; for example LFM and GD were fighting Irish and triads , aztecas who were LFM’s no1 ally did not interfere , contradicting the statement you made about that , then Irish had its own problems with aztecas so aztecas started hitting them at labs etc, and then triads stepped in helping Irish against us which started the fight between aztecas and triads, and the buildup for aztecas’ involvement in that took quiet a while, it’s not like those gangs were fighting then aztecas said “it’s our allies so now we’re at war with them” there was proper escalation and those were just ic consequences, I hope you have more context on the alliance situation in that case.

You're forgetting this is a roleplay server on GTA, with nothing to do and RP being so limited due to server rules I had to raise my concerns, you however provided nothing useful on this thread other than discrediting a huge portion of players without giving any proper context, do you honestly think criminal RP is perfect right now and the only issue is the entire playerbase of criminals ? and do you believe no rules should be looked into or reviewed ?

I am trying my best to quote people on the suggestions I find realistic and add my feedback to it

Your perception is kinda off to be honest, you are correct with how players are there to blame, but we are here to discuss things that can't be changed since you can't really change some players' attitudes - But you can change some of the points mentioned if you had the power to do so, Law enforcement is not perfect and I believe there's issues with it, however that is neither the main concern nor point of this thread, So with labs being dead, cooking being "not worth it", robberies, IC rivalries being ruleplayed, what do you do as a crim - assuming you want to actively be one not passively, and by passively I mean a member of a huge gang sitting at pier fishing until there's "something going on" to attend to. You also can not tell me the issue with crim RP is that EVERY single crim [ Lots and Lots are becoming inactive / quitting the server] are the sole problem here

Yeah I've stated multiple times on the beginning of the thread, that thread updates are not the main purpose of this script (However labs can be a very good contributor for improvement) The disconnect is unfortunately HUGE, - Gang management could possibly become a thing if worked on by the server owners / higher staff . But with all the respect, having people who never RP as crim, make decisions for crim players will do no good to the community overall, at the end of the day Managing "Factions" such as legal factions etc is a huge difference than Gangs, and I really feel criminal roleplay on this server is big enough to have a specific staff division with the purpose of handling their matters, and I've once said on a previous thread "Eclipse is where it's at today because of the way things used to be for the longest time and how fun the server was for both gangs, and solo crims and PD "

the suggestion isnt bringing out script related updates solely, but possibly readjusting and looking into lots of rules, and change the way staff intervenes in RP scenario and a possible solution would be having a new division in staff called Gang Management which consists of staff members with a real criminal experience on the server

Limiting alliances does not make sense I.M.O , again less OOC restrictions and allow people to play and RP the way they want to, if you want to be in a crew and hit 4 gangs, don't complain about 4 gangs hitting you at once, instead take your fights tactically and do not make enemies with multiple groups unless you have the power to fight it out, otherwise you're pretty much beat and its all due to IC decisions, and I will say again this is a thread made to improve criminal RP in terms of rules, FM involvement, and from staff's side, not to complain about IC consequences from IC actions. +1 on the robbery rules as they became an invisible shield people use and abuse rather than something added to improve roleplay

Labs were indeed a huge factor and contributor to criminal RP, and are unfortunately dead rn so +1

your comment has complete bias towards your own experience when the thread is explicitly about server wide improvement, you can not ICly make rivals then complain when they outnumber you, and instead should go for diplomacy or accepting IC consequences even if they're not in your favor. there's never 10 gangs on one frequency, this thread was not made to discuss what you don't like ICly or what consequences you deal with for IC actions, but it was made to improve criminal roleplay from Staff's side. thank you

I see where you are coming from but it should be entirely up to my character if i want to go in and help or not , more ooc restrictions are def not the way to improve things rn

if you have any useful input, be my guest, I will be adding people's valid comments into the thread, and issues brought up by other people I myself am gonna refrain from speaking much to eliminate any chance of bias towards myself, and this thread will be relayed to certain people who will review it and assess the situation

I believe every active / old member of the server can see how criminal roleplay is descending in quality, and there's multiple issues to speak about, following multiple conversations with many concerned parties and a discussion with a Staff member with authority to look into things and potentially fix them I made this thread to voice out people's opinions and combine the comments of other players and inject them into the main thread to bring most of the current issues with crim RP and how it's been gradually dying out, and voice out those issues and bring them to the higher staff team and people in charge of big decision making. Note to forum moderators: Please Delete any comments that try to instigate a PD vs Crim discussion as its far beyond that point now and criminal roleplay is damaged to the core @JakeInnit_ Noted down : FM should stop gangs allying with more than two other gangs - I honestly don't believe there should be OOC limitations on who you ally with etc FM should give more clear and in depth feedback prior to the point of official reviews, in order for factions to stay on track and keep official - I agree 100%, I really believe FM should keep concerned players well informed in such scenarios rather than having them guess FM should not be run or involve individuals that know little to nothing regarding criminal roleplay, handlers often have never been apart of a criminal faction, official or otherwise - I personally agree 100% as certain things ruled / commented on by FM make no sense at all coming from someone who first played ECRP at august 2017 and been playing crim as main, and some decisions seem to decrease the overall fun for the players and improve nothing, Faction management I.M.O should be in charge of legal factions and a new sub-department of Staff should be introduced, something like "Gang management" which could be mainly ran by staff members who have lots of experience RPing as crims Add turfs to the chopshop NPCs at plane scrapyard, garbage, left lake and right lake - There's not many official factions currently, otherwise I would support this and encourage fighting over fights etc rather than having FM intervene in every turf related situation Add ATM robberies in order to gain money packets, a new tool could be added to the tools NPC that sells crowbars etc - This is a script related issue, would be nice to add, however the main concerns of this thread is the way things are being ran, rules limiting/restricting RP, this will bring more script related interactions but the end goal here is to improve player to player RP as a crim FM leadership should make themselves more available to speak to faction leaders, if they can't find the time then maybe introduce more staff into senior FM positions. My reasoning for this is because during the whole Triads x Irish vs Aztecas GD MB LFM conflict, no one had the opportunity to speak to senior FM, only handlers were there but they have limited powers - Yes and this lack of communication changed a conflict that could have been a fun / approved rivalry VIA official war,. or an official rivalry sort of, to a series of unfortunate events that resulted into two great official factions losing their status FM handlers should engage with their factions more, from my experience its only one or two who actually take the time to engage with people and check in on them - In my opinion, FM handler's involvement should be there to make sure rules are not being broken etc, and not to enforce roleplay in a certain way or force / stop certain IC things from happening, Handlers can say something at one point then have faction members completely blind sided by a different ruling from their seniors Static drug lab tables should have lower timers for cooking drugs - At this point labs are a desperate case and anything improving them is a +1 from me Reintroduce mushrooms and steroids to drug manufacturing under a new table type and with a new static lab possibly at the large house in Grapeseed - More updates etc will def. help criminal RP and this is def a +1 however I prefer this thread being more about how crim RP can be improved in terms of the way how things are being ran by staff, rules, FM involvement etc as it takes less effort to change / fix , since updates will take a lot more work etc Added: The problem with "criminal rp" comes from the players not the script support. Currently 90% of the players that exist in criminal RP are only present to shoot, loot and win. Once you get rid of this mentality then you will see vast positive developments with how the rp flows. Criminal RP has had the most updates targeted to them over the last year+ in the server, however it always ends up in the "stale" state due to the player bases attitudes. Further development will only keep it fresh for a month, where players will then return to their usual mindset. I personally disagree that "more" rules should be added into structing criminal rp via FM, as Faction Management already are involved beyond levels I personally believe they should. They often get involved with "reasoning" over single events, let alone focusing on the overall quality and providing constructive feedback to the gangs. Given that the communication is improved, again this will vastly assist in the quality of the rp. Instead of players being afraid to carry out RP in fear of "Punishment". To sum it up, players should be focusing on their own "issues" and strive to improve them, instead of worrying about others. Once you've improved yourself and your faction, from there everyone can begin working together to get it into a working state. The main concern in this thread was not script support, you are right the majority of the playerbase is the reason, but the way rules are made, and Staff intervenes has a huge effect on matters, And just because some people can be interested in heavy RP in general, that does not mean this "shootout, loot, win" should be discouraged, however it should not be the main objective a criminal gets, But you gotta keep in mind you are roleplaying a criminal on GTA, at certain points PVP makes the game fun, but all should be done in accordance with the rules which I believe need to be adjusted, I also agree 100% on your statement regarding FM's extreme involvement @KCAJ Mentioned : I don’t care about how many gangs are together on one freq I’d rather just have old labs back and 2019 rules so that people aren’t getting Non RPs for robbing someone for a gun/car. - Labs were indeed a huge contributor and factor within criminal roleplay and need to be revived as they are dead right now @JayG : +1 -Adjust drug labs so they have around the same passive income as PD/SD/mechanics, etc Bring back the whole cooking in LAB's / Holding it down Solo cooking being fun so people actually want to go to the labs in order to make an income this whole cooking at home I understand can be good however nothing beats chilling in a lab with people holding it down least then criminals would actually have something to do criminal activities are very limited these days kinda annoying +1 On Robbery Rules before we didn't have many officers to the point officers would be overrun by criminals now we have quite a few I think some things should be an IC Issue, for example, you were to rob someone who insulted you or has a gun on them in the middle of the legion square or on a street corner that would be your own risky fault as a passer could see and report you however this shouldn't be an OOC RULE that you cannot rob someone in these locations as it's just limiting the fun, for example, you see someone you know they're a criminal/ active gang member why can't you just pull on them rob them and get off without it having to come to the forums. it is understandable you wouldn't just rob someone at a gas station in the middle of the street who you didn't know or was a legal worker in order to rob them you would figure out who they were by talking to them then you just hop off your bike/car hands them up strip them quickly and get off this is also their own fault for their own IC conflict people these days are too worried about reporting someone for taking their shit knowing that it's their own fault as a player. - The nonrp rules did help fishermen, miners, etc, but became an invisible shield criminals use in order to avoid IC consequences from their IC actions and is abused by people on a daily basis, and I really believe they need to be looked into because the amount of Ruleplay taking place nowadays is just too too far. @NM369 Quoting the issues are believe need looking into from your comment: -Switch back to american roleplay instead of european (Remove the nonRP robbery rules, or adjust it so that it creates more RP opportunities.) / as mentioned earlier I'm totally with fishermen not getting robbed while fishing at the pier but the way it currently is in the criminal world is just destroying immersion as you can not roleplay your character and their actions properly in scenarios since you will get reported -Somehow crim convoys are nonRP now? Why? Back when in PD I got so stoked when I saw a convoy as it gave an enjoyable chase. / Totally Agree, this is a game and you should not get an OOC punishment because there's "too many vehicles" on a chase, if they were ramming each other and fucking up too much etc then yea but if driving properly it seems like an IC issue and gives PD some RP to go and try to break off the convoy / disperse -Less faction management involvement as they control all IC actions OOCly / Big +1, A Blacklist was introduced where lots of RP took place between several gangs and a criminal legislation and jury were made which contributed heavily to improving crim RP from an IC standpoint (not allowing snitching etc) which should be the core lore to almost every criminal, and if I'm not mistaken staff demanded that does not become a thing -Adjust druglabs so they have around the same passive income as PD/SD/mechanics,etc / As multiple people stated / suggested, labs need to get revived and I think that is currently the main issue that is a script issue rather than just rules. -Make some admins play as crims so that they can actually see how bad it currently is. (Put them in DOC for a week as an inmate and I bet DOC would actually improve) / 100% I see players commenting on other threads saying "Staff are also members who play the game etc etc" However I can bring up so many examples of staff members that are not that active in game, or don't actively play Crim RP, or never did, yet are given roles that are crucial to crim RP and I really believe it should be handled by people who are very experienced around that field. -Make faction management watch some documentaries on crime so that criminal can go back to roleplaying as one instead of the civilians we got turned into. / Any form of Education on Crim RP would be great help whether its in game experience or documentaries. -Fix DOC stamps so that we can at least poker and have some fun in DOC every now and then. / +1 as prison is currently closer to being an ooc punishment where you got to AFK , unless you are lucky and you get in during times with lots of inmates, familiar faces, and DOC guards, where there's times where its you and 1 new player and another AFK guy. -Fix the unrealistic way we get injured now, If I fall off a faggio going 5 km/h and get injured, I can't scream or call anyone? yet 911 is fair? Getting injured has become so unrealistic. I know the agenda behind it was to make injuries more realistic but from what i've actually seen it made it way worse. / This rule makes everyone's game experience nothing but harder as you are forced to RP a certain way, if i break my leg I somehow cant use my vocal chords, shout, or use my radio which is pressing a button on your ear, kinda like the script PGing you into being unable to do actions you should be able to do with certain injury types, specially when you die to a glitch and there's no MD on duty you gotta wait AFK till you bleed out or hope you're lucky to get a by-passer who's got BLS and a trunk Fishing at pier makes more money then running a druglab right now which is kinda weird. The only reason I'm still logging in is just because of my friends i got here, Just to talk and vibe since there is barely anything to do anymore. - So are many many other players and its bad.

unique theme , really looking forward to see where this goes, good luck boys