Detective Work rework

[David Coast]

I think certain methods of detective work need to be reworked.

For example, if cops compromise Empire frequency and we call out that OTF is holding a lab, cops shouldn’t be able to push that lab immediately. It’s way too easy to abuse. If I wanted to, I could intentionally get caught by cops and have a friend say on frequency that OTF is cooking at a lab, just to ruin an opposing gang’s time.

And it’s not just this - cops are involved in almost every fight. A lot of them use gun sound mods, meaning they can hear shots from a crazy distance. (Listen, I use the same gun sound mods, but I’m not sending people to 3 hours of gulag over it.) With the declining player base, everything is becoming too easy to metagame. If a cop sees you, chances are they’ll fuck you over.

I know this has probably been brought up before, but with the current state of the server the declining player base and every interaction turning into a crashout from someone - it really doesn’t make sense that a random gang who avoids cops perfectly get completely ruined because some random hangaround from another gang got their frequency beat and someone called out that XYZ is holding.

I’m sure cops will disagree, but right now it’s way too easy for gangs to direct cops onto rival gangs without any backlash.

Edited April 27 by David Coast

[Demonmit1]

Unfortunately there is just a massive divide between crim factions and law enforcement. We are effectively playing entirely different games. Completely different standards are enforced between FM and LFM, which continues to increase the divide between law enforcement and criminal players.

Obviously I'm biased towards LEO/Detective stuff as entirely only play that and have for the past year and a half, and I haven't done any crim stuff since then, so I'm struggling to understand what your goal is with a suggestion like this. What exactly would you want changed in how detective work plays out?

My understanding and overall goal of what GND / LEO is supposed to be towards criminal roleplay is, law enforcement generate the risk for the reward of being successful in a crime. Criminal activity has significantly higher rewards for being successful than non criminal activity. That significantly higher reward needs higher risk to balance it. Having organized factions, organized crime increases that reward by a significant margin, so detectives who investigate and pursue organized crime/factions should create even higher risk of being caught.

 

Without the risk of being caught, what's the point of getting the reward?

 

LFM has progressively reduced time and time again different ways were allowed to catch organized crime. It's to the point where most GND would agree that we are heavily restricted in who, where, how, and why we try and catch people. Nearly every incident we initiate we are then questioned by staff how and why we found you and pursued an arrest.

 

GND constantly has to innovate and figure out new ways to work within the ever changing rules and restrictions placed on us by LFM. There has literally been times where rules are changing every few hours, and even LFM can't keep things straight on what's allowed and not allowed.

If I'm understanding this correctly, you're asking that if a GND detective is listening on on a gang frequency, and we hear, "were X gang and were cooking drugs at X location right now" that the rules should OOCly prevent us from using in character information to investigate? That seems... Wildly unfair, since criminal players have no restrictions to use that information to their advantage, Lol.

Like I said, at this point we're playing completely different games and the divide is only being firced wider by staff. But, humor me for a moment, and look at it from my perspective.

 

1. Have you considered there could be a detective listening to your frequency at any point, and you should be careful what you say on freq and practice good opsec?

2. If someone has got your gang caught repeatedly, why are they still in your gang when they're such a liability?

3. How many weeks to months did you vette someone before you gave them access to cook with you, or know you're actively cooking drugs at a drug lab? 

4. If you're not thoroughly vetting people you recruit, not training them on how to not get caught, why are you trying to change the rules to protect your lack of effort and roleplay?

5. If it's another gang that's getting you caught, why are you openly friendly with them everywhere except at labs? Why is there not an active war? Why are you letting them see you at a drug lab and leaving alive when you know they snitch or compromise your operations?

6. Why do you prance around with a rifle drawn, combat rolling around in the open with body armor in the middle of a drug lab, acting as if you're not being watched, or a care in the world about securing your perimeter?

7. Why is everyone inside the lab all trying to get their piece of the cook to make sure they get their cook done and profit, rather than having roles like, guards, scouts, cooks, then distribute the profits so everyone gets a share of the money? The furthest "organized" factions typically get is just to have another body with a gun for a fight, beyond that, most people are in it for themselves, there's no honor amongst thieves.

 

If a criminal faction actually tried to roleplay effectively, practice smart communication and security, they'd be pretty damn effective. But that typically doesn't happen. Criminal players complain, GND get another Nerf until criminals complain again, yet criminals refuse to try anything different or change their own tactics, you would rather change the rules to protect your lack of effort.

Edited April 27 by Demonmit1

[Eliza]

I’m a crim player and I see the point but in my experience the best practice that I do is to just always assume the freq is comped and that somebody could be listening. If you say you’re cooking at X location, and any crim hears that, they’re probably going to get their boys to try and get your goods. I don’t see why a cop should treat it any differently if they hear it. If you’re more careful about saying locations and stuff that you probably don’t want cops to hear, then you’d be surprised how less you’d get pushed

Edited April 27 by Eliza

[astrx]

If your frequency gets comped then skill issue, if you’re sick of PD/SD joining your fights, stop doing 10v10 fights in the middle of the city.

PD/SD are holding up faction duties, it is why it is, I play both sides and understand the frustrations sometimes, though most of the time you can avoid it by using your brain.

[David Coast]

well i give up. these responses actually feel like ragebait. ima go get beat by cops and get dave to say "otf holding afgan 20 deep" and ruin the criminal community through the method of infinite ap cops

^ a very easy thing to do and within server rules (somewhat)

time to murder every person that spots me cooking at sealabs and vet jimbob for 3 months before letting him speak to another player since apperantly thats the tim sutton guide 4 criminal w's

[Demonmit1]

dont give up! FM/Meridian will come by and spawn all the stuff back in for you cause you complained and you can go back out and continue playing GTA online with extra steps.

I dont know what else to offer than what I just posted, a literal step by step guide on what you can do to avoid being consistently caught by GND. If you're not willing to put in the same amount of effort, why do you expect to never get caught?

You're openly not willing to put in the effort to be successful, and will cry to LFM like this post is, to change the rules im allowed to play by to protect your lack of effort and roleplay.

Edited April 27 by Demonmit1

[sakkama]

7 hours ago, Demonmit1 said:

7. Why is everyone inside the lab all trying to get their piece of the cook to make sure they get their cook done and profit

because i have to cook as much as i can to afford the 100ap and the heavy rifle, when u get better ones for free?
 

 

7 hours ago, Demonmit1 said:

If a criminal faction actually tried to roleplay effectively, practice smart communication and security, they'd be pretty damn effective. But that typically doesn't happen. Criminal players complain, GND get another Nerf until criminals complain again, yet criminals refuse to try anything different or change their own tactics, you would rather change the rules to protect your lack of effort.

being smart and practicing wont help you outrun 10 pd cars and a heli, people have been playing here for years, do u really think after all this time no one figured out how to win against leos even sometimes ?
nerf until criminals complain again ? cmon i have to work my ass off just to afford the gun and ap that u get them for free, you've got pager which from my pov is mg and if criminals does it it'd be called a rule breach, you've got snipers, helis, insurgents and the list goes on, pls dont complain about nerfing cos u still way too buffed.

[AnakinB]

This is a very easily solvable problem, stop giving cops different rules to follow lol,

Crims can't pull up to a shootout and 3rd party without demands, cops can!

Crims can't give demands from a vehicle, cops can! 

Crims cant circle a shootout and driveby, Cops can but from a helicopter with no recoil! 

the list goes on and on, theres a posted ruleset, everyone should have to follow it.

regardless though, the same shit people complained about for the past 6+ years people are still complaining about now, you'd think theyd change something but its a cop server. Get used to it or find a different server to play. 

Good post though bro

Edited April 27 by AnakinB

[risk]

4 hours ago, Demonmit1 said:

dont give up! FM/Meridian will come by and spawn all the stuff back in for you cause you complained and you can go back out and continue playing GTA online with extra steps.

Hello @Demonmit1!

If you have concerns with how FM operates, you're encouraged to DM me and take the time to actually learn what we do, and how we do it, so that frustrations like this don't boil over in public places with very little truth to them and cause ill will. 

FM does not spawn in items to replace every lost asset. We don't spawn in things to replace most assets. I have an entire system and detailed website built that tracks exactly what - at any given point - we have pushed into the community, when, and why. In the 7 months I have been running FM, I have replaced items lost from a LEO interaction less than a handful of times and each of them were after careful review, with POV or having been spectated, and after consulting both members of Game Affairs and EA. 

Every EA has access to this website and there is full transparency in everything we do beyond just "allowing players to continue playing GTA online with extra steps." Frankly, implying otherwise is destructive and unnecessary.

While I do empathize it can be frustrating to feel as though FM is running behind LEO to try and nullify your efforts, that's not what is happening. My DMs are always open.  

[Demonmit1]

34 minutes ago, risk said:

While I do empathize it can be frustrating to feel as though FM is running behind LEO to try and nullify your efforts, that's not what is happening. My DMs are always open.  

that is not what i intended or meant for that to be taken as. I have absolutely no issue with players getting some form of reimbursement over a big scene, a big raid, a bad loss, etc. If there isnt anything left for me to go out and find, i dont get to play as a detective. i know that players have had some assets returned/reimbursed after they get their property raided by law enforcement because they handled the loss well in game, and played along, and got recognized by staff, and rewarded for doing so. I think thats a great thing. it lessens the blow, rewards positive responses to an overall negative roleplay scenario for them, and they dont have to start over from scratch which would cause a lot of people to just give up and leave. in no way do i see that as FM running behind LEO's backs to try and nullify our efforts, i think its a very justifiable positive thing for the criminal playerbase. I know i'd be bummed out pretty hard if i was completely wiped out on my crim, and that recognition and support from FM if i got a bump back up would be a big motivator.