Remove backup breach rule

[alexalex303]

52 minutes ago, CharlesXiao said:

Lets be real here. The rule was first put into place to stop council. Since were all gone now, re-write the rule. PD are more OP than they have ever been and even more from the time frame that AlexAlex is mentioning. 

PD is weaker now compared to then, criminals have access to the exact same armor, exact same guns, even sniper rifles and helicopters now, and better vehicles. 

59 minutes ago, Aezeryst said:

I see zero reason why gangs shouldn't be allowed to call upon friends to help them out, it was a silly ass rule to begin with, especially when cops already have slot of numbers and way better weapons/armour/vehicles (on the occasion Crims are using non meta vehicles which I like to stick to purely for RP)

 

[alexalex303]

This isn't about council, this is about the current playerbase. The current "meta" at labs is to send one of your guys on a bike and have them bait until they get pointed at and then you all push the lab cause they "gave you a reason".

If you remove the alliance rule, one gang will send a guy on a bike then four gangs will push together. This will effectively end any small gang that won't have alliance backing.

It will be super popular and fun for 2-3 gangs but kill everything else. I am strongly against. 

[SneakySniper]

Just now, alexalex303 said:

PD is weaker now compared to then, criminals have access to the exact same armor, exact same guns, even sniper rifles and helicopters now, and better vehicles. 

 

We dont have the same armor. Crims got given better armor then it got taken away like a day later. Our max is still 100. And with the recent nerfs in guns and mk2s, trying to kill a cop in swat gear is like throwing peas at a tank. Especially when there is never just one cop. More come.

We cant really use helis as anyone who uses one gets it taken off of them if used illegally. 

The only people with better cars is people who payed for the supers. Cops have access to the jug and banshee. I've also been arrested by an undercover in a lacourese during a lengthy pursuit. And snipers will decay soon enough with the new gun decay system whereas any gun used by PD is fresh out the /fl menu

[SneakySniper]

3 minutes ago, alexalex303 said:

This isn't about council, this is about the current playerbase. The current "meta" at labs is to send one of your guys on a bike and have them bait until they get pointed at and then you all push the lab cause they "gave you a reason".

If you remove the alliance rule, one gang will send a guy on a bike then four gangs will push together. This will effectively end any small gang that won't have alliance backing.

It will be super popular and fun for 2-3 gangs but kill everything else. I am strongly against. 

Glad to see someone sees it the same i do. 

[alexalex303]

1 minute ago, SneakySniper276 said:

We dont have the same armor. Crims got given better armor then it got taken away like a day later. Our max is still 100. And with the recent nerfs in guns and mk2s, trying to kill a cop in swat gear is like throwing peas at a tank. Especially when there is never just one cop. More come.

We cant really use helis as anyone who uses one gets it taken off of them if used illegally. 

The only people with better cars is people who payed for the supers. Cops have access to the jug and banshee. I've also been arrested by an undercover in a lacourese during a lengthy pursuit. And snipers will decay soon enough with the new gun decay system whereas any gun used by PD is fresh out the /fl menu

I don't wanna turn this into a pd vs crim because I think LEOs will be fine but just to clear up some misunderstandings

Criminals got access to 200 AP through special imports which meant they had better armor than even SWAT; that was walked back after a few weeks. As far as I am aware every established gang on the server still has access to 150 AP through special imports. That is EQUAL to SWAT and BETTER than most cops that patrol with 100. 

The recent nerfs to MK2s apply to both crims and cops equally as they are the same guns script-wise.

Helicopters have been used when stolen from MD/legal owners with great effect. There was a video of OTF chasing down AIR 1 with their own helicopter.

Yes, the cars are bought with real money but they're still better. Banshee has nothing on niobe in terms of performance, and there's dozens of them.

Back in the day cops had the best car, the most AP and the best guns. That's not the case anymore, and it's probably a good thing, but what I replied to was someone pretending that PD was weaker then compared to an established gang.

[Toxine]

14 minutes ago, alexalex303 said:

This isn't about council, this is about the current playerbase. The current "meta" at labs is to send one of your guys on a bike and have them bait until they get pointed at and then you all push the lab cause they "gave you a reason".

If you remove the alliance rule, one gang will send a guy on a bike then four gangs will push together. This will effectively end any small gang that won't have alliance backing.

It will be super popular and fun for 2-3 gangs but kill everything else. I am strongly against. 

Yes that's a great point you raise. 

But you also need to consider the fact that the 2-3 smaller gangs, can pool up numbers and fight the bigger gangs such as Rooks, OTF, etc.. 

Because as it stands right now, smaller gangs dont have much of a chance against bigger gangs, unless its a new formed gang with all veterans that have assets equal to the members of those bigger gangs. 

Which then shifts the whole directive of things.

And to the point of "end small gangs with no alliances", then that's on them. People dont like you? You are not good at diplomacy? You are not seen as an asset to others? Then that's all on you, nobody elses fault. 
If you can't provide something valuable to other gangs (Numbers, guns, packs, chops, drugs, what have you), you should maybe reconsider the value of your gang and its place in the city.

[SneakySniper]

1 hour ago, alexalex303 said:

I don't wanna turn this into a pd vs crim because I think LEOs will be fine but just to clear up some misunderstandings

Criminals got access to 200 AP through special imports which meant they had better armor than even SWAT; that was walked back after a few weeks. As far as I am aware every established gang on the server still has access to 150 AP through special imports. That is EQUAL to SWAT and BETTER than most cops that patrol with 100. 

The recent nerfs to MK2s apply to both crims and cops equally as they are the same guns script-wise.

Helicopters have been used when stolen from MD/legal owners with great effect. There was a video of OTF chasing down AIR 1 with their own helicopter.

Yes, the cars are bought with real money but they're still better. Banshee has nothing on niobe in terms of performance, and there's dozens of them.

Back in the day cops had the best car, the most AP and the best guns. That's not the case anymore, and it's probably a good thing, but what I replied to was someone pretending that PD was weaker then compared to an established gang.

When i was in lost, we got given the APS, then they got taken back and we hadn't heard about anything else. To my knowledge 100AP is still the same limit for crims, we got made to give them back in.

I'm not gonna try turn this into a cop vs crim post, i have both a cop and a Crim alt. Just wanted to clarify some things. 

I agree with what you said in terms of the original post topic. Thats all ive got else to say.

 

Edited October 2, 2025 by SneakySniper276

[CharlesXiao]

47 minutes ago, alexalex303 said:

PD is weaker now compared to then, criminals have access to the exact same armor, exact same guns, even sniper rifles and helicopters now, and better vehicles. 

The report you included just is not council, its a fake facade players used to keep the name around and its power behind it. Council was Zetas and Triads... We also all know why you'd be heavily against the suggestion at hand considering what happened to WCA....

[Clank]

56 minutes ago, SneakySniper276 said:

 

 

This is the size of cops maximum AP when used. And the crims AP being 100, shows as only half. 

 

Can you post the full image? I'm just curious about something. Because if I remember correctly, this was a screenshot cropped from a crim using the 200 armor import.

edit:

Found the extended portion of the image

it came from a criminal player using 200ap

Edited October 2, 2025 by Clank

[SneakySniper]

20 minutes ago, Clank said:

Can you post the full image? I'm just curious about something. Because if I remember correctly, this was a screenshot cropped from a crim using the 200 armor import.

edit:

Found the extended portion of the image

it came from a criminal player using 200ap

Well then thats my bad. I thought stuff posted from pd media was from pd not crims. Alg tho

[Demonmit1]

2 hours ago, Toxine said:

But you also need to consider the fact that the 2-3 smaller gangs, can pool up numbers and fight the bigger gangs such as Rooks, OTF, etc.. 

2 hours ago, Toxine said:

And to the point of "end small gangs with no alliances", then that's on them. People dont like you? You are not good at diplomacy? You are not seen as an asset to others? Then that's all on you, nobody elses fault. 
If you can't provide something valuable to other gangs (Numbers, guns, packs, chops, drugs, what have you), you should maybe reconsider the value of your gang and its place in the city.

maybe it could be a perk specifically limited to newer/smaller gangs, you lose access to getting to call for backup the higher tier gang you are. Smaller gangs get the benifit, without letting bigger, established gangs abuse it.

Edited October 2, 2025 by Demonmit1

[alexalex303]

5 hours ago, Toxine said:

And to the point of "end small gangs with no alliances", then that's on them. People dont like you? You are not good at diplomacy? You are not seen as an asset to others? Then that's all on you, nobody elses fault. 
If you can't provide something valuable to other gangs (Numbers, guns, packs, chops, drugs, what have you), you should maybe reconsider the value of your gang and its place in the city.

The thing is that we've done this before, with more or less the same community members and your theory did not pan out. It wasn't small gangs rising above the big ones, but big ones holding hands and pushing small gangs off of the server. You seem to be okay with that at the end.

"People don't like you, you're not good at diplomacy? time to disband and quit the server"

This is meant to help player population how? I feel like it would just hasten our demise if we take any smaller gang that is already struggling at labs and making them feel like they have zero chances when 130 people push them. And they will. No one will self-moderate or think about the roleplay. 

Why? Look at current examples of gangs self-moderating when it comes to labs.

 

[Toxine]

29 minutes ago, alexalex303 said:

The thing is that we've done this before, with more or less the same community members and your theory did not pan out. It wasn't small gangs rising above the big ones, but big ones holding hands and pushing small gangs off of the server. You seem to be okay with that at the end.

"People don't like you, you're not good at diplomacy? time to disband and quit the server"

This is meant to help player population how? I feel like it would just hasten our demise if we take any smaller gang that is already struggling at labs and making them feel like they have zero chances when 130 people push them. And they will. No one will self-moderate or think about the roleplay. 

Why? Look at current examples of gangs self-moderating when it comes to labs.

 

It can always be introduced as a rule that gangs of higher tiers cannot cooperate against lower tiers. 

The thing here is that crims need more ways to interact with each other, and only holding labs together ain't going to cut it. 

Also, given the steady decline of players, the map and activities need to be consolidated so there's more people in less places. 

After all, gangs already have their relationships set. So everyone already knows who's beefing who, who's allies with who. 
With that in mind, it's better to have 1 20v20 fight at 1 lab, than 3 2v2 fights in 3 labs.

At this point, we just need to maximize the fun we can get without scripts. I believe that the "high level RP" of the server is long gone, and now we just need to hang on the very thin thread of labs, as it's the only source of entertainment for crim. 

Our faction focuses almost exclusively on banks, and let me tell you that between the cooldown, police response, coordination, and the amount of police online needed is such a headache to do. 
ATM, Chops, House robberies are kinda useless.  

[Daxu]

23 hours ago, CharlesXiao said:

Lets be real here. The rule was first put into place to stop council. Since were all gone now, re-write the rule. PD are more OP than they have ever been and even more from the time frame that AlexAlex is mentioning. 

Allied gangs should not just be sitting on the side lines and watching their friends/business partness get hurt, killed or worse. Along with that several other nerfs have been applied to crim factions such as the faction cap being decreased twice? I believe.

Obvisouly if say OTF call Rooks for backup that would be just silly and shouldn't happen. Or vise versa.

Man The Council was a crazy time...