Official war system, with special DM rules and forced conflict resolution

[Steven Hayes]

Gang RP feels like it is missing something to me right now, largely because theres no real motivation for conflict. When I first joined it was because i saw youtube videos of the old 2019-2021 wars. Now i do understand those were just highlight reels with the fighting and diplomacy and it was literal hell to actually play through but this suggestion isn't saying bring that back. Wars often become endless cycles of fighting with no meaningful resolution, and they typically only end when one side disbands for unrelated reasons. Additionally, the current system limits political and diplomatic strategies, since often there isn't much you can do but get better gun prices, and get people to not sell guns to your enemy. Lastly, gangs are restricted from seeking alliances since rules prevent active involvement in fights beyond intelligence and weaponry support (though i do understand the potential and history of abuse before this rule. I do also understand that an official war system used to exist but, I think there needs to be relaxed NLR rules or something when it comes to starting conflict, obviously if all witnessed are wiped at a lab that's one thing. Also this could be tracked through a simple google doc so no need for script changes. i.e active wars: gang x vs gang y.

So, my suggestion gives a proposal to fix these issues by 3 points.

• Allowing multiple gangs to be involved in a conflict at once, with proper approval.
• Requiring FM approval for conflicts lasting longer than 7-14 days, or those involving backup alliances.
• Adjusting the DM rules for gang wars to represent realistic gang conflict

The idea of this is that it would add real consequence to war, making factions & their members have to actually roleplay fear against stronger organizations, while making sure that 'hit them until they disband' is not something that happens anymore. I think war would be more fun this way and also, the suggestions below, would push gang members to RP more realistically (Warring factions often run around unarmed, by themselves, in full colors because they know they won't be shot or robbed)

 

Part 1 is the war system itself.

Currently, war feels empty. Many times, wars become endless battles with zero contribution to a storyline. Simply just endless fighting. To fix this, I propose a structured war system:

Unofficial War
Should be for short-term, unofficial conflicts lasting up to 7/14 days
Gangs involved cannot call others for backup
Escalation only if approved reasonable peace terms are offered by the aggressor and denied by the opposing gang, 
This allows for smaller disputes to resolve quickly without requiring staff approval every time, lowering the load on FM and reducing criminal factions having to wait for FM approval on things. 

Official war
Requires FM approval
To get approval, peace terms must be reasonable, before escalating to this stage, and as the war progresses peace terms should be proportionate to the roleplay leading up to negotiations (intentionally open ended)
This adds structure to conflicts and ensures they have both a clear reason for continuing and an end in sight.
If a gang repeatedly refuses fair, FM-approved terms, FM may enforce an eventual forced disbandment due to loss of resources, manpower, and morale.

The purpose of this is to make gangs actually have a reason RP fear & respect of larger organizations, and for gangs to have a reason to somewhat fear war, but still have an incentive to go to war for the potential spoils. Also makes war exciting in general, there are stakes now. Lots to lose, lots to gain, Risk vs Reward. 

EDIT - Something that could be considered is allowing higher tier factions (as rply, these factions have more resources, more manpower, deeper connections and pockets) to be able to continue fighting for longer, or do more damage per fight, if that makes sense. This aims to simulate that it is not impossible for smaller, newer factions to resist larger ones, but they'd have to fight harder for the same result as they are punching above their weight. Some people may say this is unfair, and i agree, but it's RP not necessarily meant to be fair. 

Part 2: Direct conflict intervention

The current backup breach rule prevents powerful alliances from dominating smaller gangs. While this is good, it limits cooperation for shared interests, like protecting profits.

I propose allowing temporary alliances in specific conflicts with FM approval to prevent abuse.

Essentially, 2 gangs could be allied for one war and provide backup to one another, but they could not for every war and would need approval each time.

'Military' alliances are temporary

Alliances are permitted only for the duration of a specific, ongoing war. Once the war concludes, the alliance is dissolved, and for any new conflicts, independent war requests must be submitted.
Permanent alliances are allowed but they can't provide direct backup instead focusing on soft power & non-combative aid, like with the current ruleset.

This one might be more controversial but if 2 gangs end up at war with 1 gang for related or unrelated reasons, and it is FM approved, imo they should be allowed to group up to fight their common enemy. You could also have it be where 2 gangs need to be at war with 1 gang for connected reasons to provide direct backup, or just disallow it in general. since i get it could be abused.

Why this might work

This system forces gangs to take the risks of multiple wars more seriously. Right now, being at war with one or five gangs is mostly the same, mostly just a minor inconvenience. You may be pushed at a lab or kidnapped & shaved every now and again. This change encourages gangs to think twice before entering conflicts against multiple gangs at once. And again, RP fear.

Part 3: War DM

Right now, gangs in war dont RP fear whatsoever, they just walk around like they're invincible, simply because they are. Usually, you can't rob (public robbery rules), kill (DM rules),or kidnap enemy gang members, without baiting usually. And they can just choose not to respond or apologize and get on with their day, meaning "warring" gangs can simply not be at war if one side doesn't consent which is not how war works at all. If you are getting hit and cant take it, negotiate for peace, or hide. under this system terms that are cause for escalating a war and more widespread killings would never be unreasonable.

I propose that attacking a known enemy gang member should be allowed under certain conditions:

The target must be clearly identifiable as a gang member, either by wearing colors or being someone the attacker knows as an enemy.

Interaction must still occur to provide context. For example, if you see an enemy gang member working at Burger Shot, you should make your intent clear before shooting; something that does properly flow ic, but also clearly states that "Our factions are at war, and this is what happens."

The goal is to maintain fair interaction and giving the victim time to react, while encouraging realistic gang behavior. Members should conceal their identity, travel in groups,  avoid public hotspots, or carry weapons to minimize risk.

In real life, warring gangs DO just shoot each other, forcing gangs to act paranoid and with concern for their life. This could be reflected while still keeping gameplay fun so you arent getting sprayed every time you leave the vicinity of your HQ, but still requiring interaction so players know IC and OOC why they're being attacked as is required under the current rules.

Conclusion

The reason that I believe this would improve gang conflict is because each of the 3 parts serves a different purpose, overall adding consequences, realism, and stakes to our roleplay. Part 1 encourages gangs to think twice before provoking others. It creates a clear end for unwanted wars, giving gangs a way out if things escalate too far, or they can't take the heat. This could also reduce OOC toxicity by keeping conflicts focused on quick RP keeping a storyline progressing rather than "here comes X again".  Part 2 allows gangs some extra freedom in providing backup against mutual enemies (You are fighting them anyways, so why not fight them together?) while again making sure faction management can regulate alliances and such stopping overpowered coalitions and the like from forming. And lastly, Part 3 allows for war to feel more authentic. Currently, gangs in wars rarely RP fear because they know they’re protected by DM and robbery rules. Members often walk around openly in colors, unarmed, or alone without concern. Under this system, gang members should feel the danger of war more realistically, whether that's through fearing the consequences or being affected by them.

Any criticisms or maybe you just disagree is appreciated. and apologies for any fuck ups in the writing and phrasing of things, inconsistencies etc. I wrote this late at night while tired for the most part. Maybe you think i am wrong about everything that i said, or i would regret this if added. 

 

Edited March 24, 2025 by Steven Hayes

[Quietthecutie]

Theres alot of good meat on this suggestion, good points, good ideas.

It does leave alot for FM to consider, ultimately this will go to them the decision wont be made on forums. but its also a LOT of work, alot of reorganisation, and a teething period while everyone gets used to the new rules. it could end up being cool.

The biggest change for me would be gang members having to properly FRP while at war I.E not ruleplaying the DM rules and using them as a shield from attacks, forcing members to lay low or roll deep for safety in numbers etc. could be pretty interesting.

[quixotic]

There's only been one war on this server and it was an amazing experience to have been able to experience that back in March of 2020, as a player. Everything you're mentioning was apart of it, special rules that applied the factions that applied for an F4 war, FM approval, proper RP escalation, DM rule adjustments, and even applications to FM for all faction involved for the war itself to occur. As you're not the first player that has inquired about a war system coming back to criminal roleplay on this server. Myself included I wish they added it back. But from a staff perspective I can see as to why they never wanted to bring it back, the forums got extremely messy and it lead to very quick demotivation from an OOC perspective for players simply trying to have fun. If there was a stigma shift in the regards for not reporting situations when you loose I'd support this, but due to the fact I've seen it first hand and the pages of reports it brought to the community I don't foresee this being brought back (unfortunately).

Edited March 17, 2025 by checkky

[Steven Hayes]

On 3/15/2025 at 4:44 AM, Quietthecutie said:

Theres alot of good meat on this suggestion, good points, good ideas.

It does leave alot for FM to consider, ultimately this will go to them the decision wont be made on forums. but its also a LOT of work, alot of reorganisation, and a teething period while everyone gets used to the new rules. it could end up being cool.

The biggest change for me would be gang members having to properly FRP while at war I.E not ruleplaying the DM rules and using them as a shield from attacks, forcing members to lay low or roll deep for safety in numbers etc. could be pretty interesting.

They wouldn't be rules-mandated to rp fear at all times just might suffer the consequences if they choose not to. But yea i think this would be big work on the FM side.

On 3/16/2025 at 8:53 PM, checkky said:

There's only been one war on this server and it was an amazing experience to have been able to experience that back in March of 2020, as a player. Everything you're mentioning was apart of it, special rules that applied the factions that applied for an F4 war, FM approval, proper RP escalation, DM rule adjustments, and even applications to FM for all faction involved for the war itself to occur. As you're not the first player that has inquired about a war system coming back to criminal roleplay on this server. Myself included I wish they added it back. But from a staff perspective I can see as to why they never wanted to bring it back, the forums got extremely messy and it lead to very quick demotivation from an OOC perspective for players simply trying to have fun. If there was a stigma shift in the regards for not reporting situations when you loose I'd support this, but due to the fact I've seen it first hand and the pages of reports it brought to the community I don't foresee this being brought back (unfortunately).

Could be true but I see less petty/malicious reports now tbh. Maybe heavier enforcement on factions to recognize that people make mistakes, if it wasn't an obvious rulebreak, or one that just can't be forgiven, don't punish/report. I can understand though that people would want to just have fun but tbh, this seems like it'd be really fun for conflicts with actual RP buildup instead of infinite ego wars. Also technically nothing stopping gang members that just want to hang out with friends to drop colors and mask up. But if you rp a criminal in a violent gang, that's the life you chose no pick and choose. hopefully this might make a war system like this, more motivating to participate in. since it wouldnt last forever and have a real reason.

 

maybe a trial run would help

[quixotic]

9 hours ago, Steven Hayes said:

maybe a trial run would help

It has been 5 years, a trial would be of help I agree.

[Sammy Kane]

yes pleaseeee. ( this sounds cool af)

[Diligo]

i had made a post about this, but you have made it more clear and concise.

This would really help out understanding whether or not one side is ready to fight for real or just messing about in labs.

Right now I feel like anyone can dress in any colors and push a lab against a friendly and have no real consequences if they win.

Sheeit my guys can even push an allied faction and dress off colors and our HC would have no knowledge about it in case they win. Which is kinda cringe. Allies should be allies always not just because it is convienent to rob/shoot someone for their stuff

Edited March 22, 2025 by Diligo

[nobrain]

YES this is what I want 

[Steven Hayes]

10 hours ago, Diligo said:

i had made a post about this, but you have made it more clear and concise.

This would really help out understanding whether or not one side is ready to fight for real or just messing about in labs.

Right now I feel like anyone can dress in any colors and push a lab against a friendly and have no real consequences if they win.

Sheeit my guys can even push an allied faction and dress off colors and our HC would have no knowledge about it in case they win. Which is kinda cringe. Allies should be allies always not just because it is convienent to rob/shoot someone for their stuff

(deleted what i wrote, i think i misunderstood what you said)

yep exactly, alot of fights between gangs at labs but not in the city. but rply this makes zero sense. its worse if you fight at labs because then you are losing lives, guns, and drugs/materials. as this is an RP server, we should not have zones for some chill PVP. if you want to fight a gang north you can fight south too

Edited March 23, 2025 by Steven Hayes

[Arnis]

As a long term member that has been in the servers i think only official war the rulle off holding somones block or there HQ was stupid as i rember thats my only down thoughts on this otherwise im down !

[Steven Hayes]

1 hour ago, Arnis said:

As a long term member that has been in the servers i think only official war the rulle off holding somones block or there HQ was stupid as i rember thats my only down thoughts on this otherwise im down !

issue with this is it would be endless rolling hqs when rply you would be outnumbered unless most or all of your gang (as in, total f4 members) pulled up. also, bad from a gameplay standpoint. people DO need a break, shouldn't have endless pvp all over the map especially not in core areas

[RJThompson]

MASSIVE +1, this idea is sick if well implemented. its something new for gangs and a proper war would be amazing for this server 

[Steven Hayes]

Sorry to bump post but 2 more things to add

1. maybe there would need to be a "war logs" channel. For the most part when gangs on the server kill each other they already clip it. So this would put those clips to use, basically after killing enemy gang members, you put the clip, in a discord channel in your faction discord so FM can decide who is losing/winning  at a point in time. Idea is minimal effort OOC from all sides. So, handlers could take ~10 minutes to go through say 3 days of war kill clips, tally up each, and use that to determine who's winnng or losing. Also, kills not logged wouldn't contribute to war effort on an OOC level.

2. You could also have the option for two gang's leaders with help/approval from FM to agree on straight KOS on enemy gang members for the duration of the war.  I think there would be less reports and OOC toxicity (atleast reducing  'i lost so i report to get my shit back' mentality) and it would help to overall lower OOC toxicity between factions by letting them just fight out their problems for a while. By having leaders and by extension gangs working together to set their own rules on their conflicts, it might help to motivate gangs more to play and have less OOC hostility being an issue.

[Quietthecutie]

I think yeah there's definitely a discussion to be had. but at this point, i think not to be had here, but to be had with FM.

They are the gate keepers here. they hold the keys for how this kind of stuff is done. so if I was pushing this I would reach out for a meeting with them, and go from there.

Edited March 26, 2025 by Quietthecutie

[Steven Hayes]

1 hour ago, Quietthecutie said:

I think yeah there's definitely a discussion to be had. but at this point, i think not to be had here, but to be had with FM.

They are the gate keepers here. they hold the keys for how this kind of stuff is done. so if I was pushing this I would reach out for a meeting with them, and go from there.

Maybe you're right, just trying to make this as good as possible and answer all the potential issues.

[HeadShot]

Sorry if this was mentioned already as I didn’t read everybody’s response, I think these ideas can be tied into the territories and turfs. Could be something like if your at war and there is special dm rights in your turf and the opposing enemies turf but not in other public areas, I think this would encourage more gangs to post up in their designated area and start really having to maintain their territory 

[Loca_Mocha]

The F4 menu supports wars already. 

There used to be a tab on the factions menu back in the day. called "Relations"

Where people could mark their current relations to another gang, where it was set by default to "Neutral", and you had the option of switching it to either " War" or " Ally ".

It was removed as it was tied to the old Turfs script. where you could fight for a turf by just hanging there. Like in Call of Duty's Domination game mode. You stood at a set spot to claim it. And you had to declare war on the gang that owned it to be able to claim it.

Another reason it was removed was that people would just declare war on each other because they felt like it. Even tho there was a server rule that stated "you need a legitimate RP reason to declare war"

Making it so that you need to request it by FM first would resolve that issue.

[Scar.]

+1 more freedom regarding actual wars actual terms and actual goals instead of never ending or bland conflicts that bring nothing.

[Quinton12345]

+1 would make the gang side of the server more than just a hands up or die fest, would be actual rp involved. and could make really good roleplay, youtube/twitch content, and would set the server in a proper direction for criminal rp.

[quixotic]

+1 Revive this thread, a simple trial run with summer coming up for official wars again would be nice for a little bit to spice thing up for crims.

[Tylerwalk]

+1