Knockouts & DM Rule Amendments [BALA]

[Chilo]

+1

Could also add it in another way as well. Like for example when you crash your car and go flying out the windscreen. You could “fall unconscious” for a short period of time.

[Requiem]

+1 because @Quietthecutie didn't oppose the suggestion in any way, so it must be good. 

[Lue]

+1 I absolutely love this, Would the person who is knocked down's screen be black or distorted in a way? Since they are RPLY knocked out?

[Eliza]

11 hours ago, GodDammitKopi said:

I am going to knock out @Eliza

7 hours ago, Astrx said:

I'm going to knockout @Eliza.

:c

[Bala]

4 hours ago, Lue said:

+1 I absolutely love this, Would the person who is knocked down's screen be black or distorted in a way? Since they are RPLY knocked out?

I think that because you'd probably need IDs for reports and such, maybe just like a black and white filter or something.
No big blood effects and a heartbeat though!

Edited January 27, 2025 by Bala

[Lue]

48 minutes ago, Bala said:

I think that because you'd probably need IDs for reports and such, maybe just like a black and white filter or something.
No big blood effects and a heartbeat though!

Ahhh thats right I didnt even think about the ID's. a black/white filter sounds cool! 

[burninghotgrill3]

This would be amazing, huge +1, would remove the weird grey area of escalation where you go straight to killing over minor things. 

[Ritchie Stones]

can we have /takehostage with a knife to ? 

[Diligo]

so killing someone needs escalation

knocking someone out needs a little less escalation

if you implement this knockout feature and also add `carry body` and/or `loot body` menu then i see how this can be abused.

i can exchange a couple of words, get called a pussy and then knock someone out and rob him off his things and judging that it is not DM but only knockout, it would be allowed during the day in a public place, right?

Can LEO press panic button if i knock them out? Can phone be used? Radio?
Because it does not make sense that anyone could do anything while literally being knocked out.
So if not allowed when knocked out.. then why can it be used while injured?

If so there is a new Roleplay scenario where you can knockout a police officer, search for his panic button and then disable/remove it... my head is starting to turn just thinking about scenarios where knockout feature can be abused..

A lot of problems start to rise up if you implement this and I am all for it (meaning +1) but every aspect surrounding it should be discussed because it is a PvP feature and rules are set in stone for PvP and this will change things a lot.

Edited January 28, 2025 by Diligo

[jdotmo]

What would the knock out effect look like ? Would it be something like dayz? Where your screen goes black and you don’t really know what’s going on around you ? Aka impaired hearing and vision. Or would it just simply be another version of being downed but you don’t have a timer till death? 
 

I know “putting a bag” over someone’s head has been suggested a few times maybe this could be away to accomplish that. 

Either way +1 huge rp up sides. 

[Diligo]

1 minute ago, jdotmo said:

I know “putting a bag” over someone’s head has been suggested a few times maybe this could be away to accomplish that. 

can do both to be honest

[Bala]

3 hours ago, Diligo said:

so killing someone needs escalation

knocking someone out needs a little less escalation

if you implement this knockout feature and also add `carry body` and/or `loot body` menu then i see how this can be abused.

i can exchange a couple of words, get called a pussy and then knock someone out and rob him off his things and judging that it is not DM but only knockout, it would be allowed during the day in a public place, right?

Can LEO press panic button if i knock them out? Can phone be used? Radio?
Because it does not make sense that anyone could do anything while literally being knocked out.
So if not allowed when knocked out.. then why can it be used while injured?

If so there is a new Roleplay scenario where you can knockout a police officer, search for his panic button and then disable/remove it... my head is starting to turn just thinking about scenarios where knockout feature can be abused..

A lot of problems start to rise up if you implement this and I am all for it (meaning +1) but every aspect surrounding it should be discussed because it is a PvP feature and rules are set in stone for PvP and this will change things a lot.

Less / More Escalation isn't a phrase that I like, because it implies something different.

There would be less consequences to fighting someone with a non-lethal weapon than a lethal weapon, whether that's to the person who goes down or you as someone who potentially gets charged. 

It's not for me to say what rules would change or how they would change. I don't see why robbery rules would need to change though because having a fight with someone in public or in daylight is not necessarily something that would bring as much attention as a shootout, but at the point you start emptying their pockets, it becomes something different.

To be clear, the knockout feature is the same as bleeding out is now but you'll be able to get back up at some point. Anything that you can't do when bleeding out, you couldn't do knocked out. 

Don't get lost in the sauce of "knocked out" -- it's a non-lethal version of the bleed out mechanic.

[Kevorkiaan]

Great stuff
+1

[inorigj]

+1

[Hama232]

+1

[BlossomyBrush87]

+ 1

 

 

[OBESE]

On 1/28/2025 at 5:17 AM, Bala said:

Less / More Escalation isn't a phrase that I like, because it implies something different.

There would be less consequences to fighting someone with a non-lethal weapon than a lethal weapon, whether that's to the person who goes down or you as someone who potentially gets charged. 

It's not for me to say what rules would change or how they would change. I don't see why robbery rules would need to change though because having a fight with someone in public or in daylight is not necessarily something that would bring as much attention as a shootout, but at the point you start emptying their pockets, it becomes something different.

To be clear, the knockout feature is the same as bleeding out is now but you'll be able to get back up at some point. Anything that you can't do when bleeding out, you couldn't do knocked out. 

Don't get lost in the sauce of "knocked out" -- it's a non-lethal version of the bleed out mechanic.

In your OP you said mentioned that this system would give more creative interactions for example knocking someone out for "talking smack". Right now talking smack is used to escalate the situation to a point where one or other party cannot stand it no more and decided to do something which then grants DM rights to the other party. But more often it does not lead to violence, because no one wants to give these DM rights to the other side, so it's just back and forth and just hurt ego's if anything.

Now what you want to suggest is that people will be able to do something about it and actually escalate to proper violence, even if it is not deadly. I see this suggestion, in this specific way, a BIG NO NO, because it will just bring more fights, shootouts and I know 100%, someone will figure out way how to ruleplay this thing and not get punished for DM.

That being said I do not say that "knock out system" is a bad idea and shouldn't be implemented. I believe that the system should be implemented with very rock solid rules that knocking someone out same as tackling right now is a DM and does require DM rights to do anything like that, but without changing the part what grants someone DM rights, therefore keeping in tact the fact that "talking smack" does not grant you DM rights.

I would like to see this system implemented same as a vehicle stalling system. If big enough damage is done then there is a chance for the individual to be knocked out. Knockout would look the same as if the body is dead and you wouldn't know if not checking for pulse. In that way, someone could survive a shootout, an attack, without the other person knowing, which then would actually be a good addition to continuous rp, being able to identify the attackers or know about what happened.
 

Obviously if someone would survive an attack because they were randomly knocked out, they would have DM rights on the attackers, which would mean that DM rights would have to change and specify that proof has to be shown if requested, if the individual acts on these DM rights. (saving pov of the situation and the knock out etc.)

Overall I dont want it to be as an added features that would allow easier way to PVP someone, but if it's added as a non-guaranteed feature, like the one mentioned about being knocked out when tackled or what I said from damage, same as a car engine stalling, then Im for it.

[Bala]

Killing someone ends the roleplay, because the person gets NLRed.

Knocking someone out continues the roleplay, because the person remembers.

[OBESE]

48 minutes ago, Bala said:

Killing someone ends the roleplay, because the person gets NLRed.

Knocking someone out continues the roleplay, because the person remembers.

So it just ads one extra step, because you knocking someone out, because they, lets say, trash talked your mother, now gives you Dm rights, which still ends with the same result - killing and ending the rp.

Like I said, it could be a cool feature to be added, but it would require a lot of planning how to add it and what would be the rule changes.

[Diligo]

If tackling someone off the bike gives DM rights then so should knockout.
Knocking someone out IRL is treated almost as attempted murder(EDIT: in law if there is an intent to kill, knocking someone out does not prove intent so it could be considered aggravated assault which tackling is and that already gives us DM rights)
Well at least i know that you can get a DM warning if you tackle someone without prior interaction but anyways..
I`d say if you bring in knockout method its just the same as putting someone on /down but much more effective.
Tazing for the 2nd or 3rd time(could be randomized) also shoud knockout then so PD dont need to run after the crims and finally arrest them and not resort to putting people under Fear RP with a pistol.

Edited February 6, 2025 by Diligo

[Bala]

Why do you two come in here trying to over complicate things that don't need to be complicated, lmao.
It's a suggestion for a middle ground between verbal insults and killing someone, so that roleplay can continue.

If you insult someone, they probably can't pull a gun on you and shoot but with this, they could box your face in.

Wouldn't be able to just walk up to someone and BAM in their face without any roleplay but the bar for knocking someone out would be lower than killing them as far as DM is concerned.

[Diligo]

10 hours ago, Bala said:

Why do you two come in here trying to over complicate things that don't need to be complicated

 

[Bobbias Willis]

HUGE +1, I’m going to knock out @Todd baguely and @Malik Miller

 

 

[inorigj]

Bump

[Requiem]

The knockout system has been implemented.