Remove the weird X tackle thing

[padpilot]

This is by far the most toxic and rulebaiting thing on the server right now... 

[Ash]

I hate it, but I also frequent burger shot so it’s probably that

[inorigj]

10 hours ago, padpilot said:

and rulebaiting

how is it rulebaiting?

a tackle is a physical attack. it does DAMAGE to your character. just injure them

its arrest able, and its an attack on your person. same as a snowball. and a snowball does not even do damage. still allows you to retaliate

[Quietthecutie]

Its not bait in the same way someone striking your character isnt bait. its the same thing, a physical assault. so long as they have a reason to do it, its valid. if its someone you have no prior interaction with, its NRP. simple as that.

If your character takes issue with it and wishes to escalate either through further violence or something else like calling the cops/backup thats IC actions having IC consequences and a perfectly valid response. hit him back, shoot him, run away, deal with it how you please but it is not bait.
 

Edited October 3, 2024 by Quietthecutie

[padpilot]

5 hours ago, Quietthecutie said:

Its not bait in the same way someone striking your character isnt bait. its the same thing, a physical assault. so long as they have a reason to do it, its valid. if its someone you have no prior interaction with, its NRP. simple as that.

If your character takes issue with it and wishes to escalate either through further violence or something else like calling the cops/backup thats IC actions having IC consequences and a perfectly valid response. hit him back, shoot him, run away, deal with it how you please but it is not bait.
 

so just to confirm, the moment somone tackles me, i can either 1) report them , or 2) retaliate and shoot them?

[inorigj]

4 hours ago, padpilot said:

so just to confirm, the moment somone tackles me, i can either 1) report them , or 2) retaliate and shoot them?

If their first sign of aggression or interaction with you is a tackle. Yes you can report them. As they have failed to escalate the RP to the point where a physical attack on your person is warranted.

And yes. You can always retaliate against a tackle

[Quietthecutie]

6 hours ago, padpilot said:

so just to confirm, the moment somone tackles me, i can either 1) report them , or 2) retaliate and shoot them?

Its probably a good idea for you to read up on NRP and DM rules, and you should always take responsibility for your own knowledge as "this person told me on forums it was ok" is a poor excuse for your own actions.

But so long as you can frame your reasoning correctly yes

-If a person is tackling me for no reason and I do not know them or have spoken to them, that's NRP because its not realistic for a total stranger to physically assault you. Usually a quick /pm to them to let you know you dont appriciate it and to please stop is enough but if they persist, report.

-If a person tackles me over some kind of alleged beef or as an escalation on smack talk or some other minor interaction, they have then escalated the situation, which gives you the right to escalate it back within reason. your escalation would seem alot more reasonable if you came back with a bat or a knife and attempted to blindside him than going fucking postal with an AK. but yeah, the most basic escalation framework is verbal Assault>Physical Assault>Guns.
 

Edited October 3, 2024 by Quietthecutie

[padpilot]

3 hours ago, Quietthecutie said:

 "this person told me on forums it was ok" is a poor excuse for your own actions.

 

it would be yes?

[inorigj]

8 minutes ago, padpilot said:

it would be yes?

They're basically saying. Asking around help in regards to RP and rules is a good thing. But don't blindly follow what they say. Unless they got a staff title such as Moderator or higher under their name.

[Quietthecutie]

28 minutes ago, padpilot said:

it would be yes?

Every situation is different, Based on escalation, location, time of day, number of witnesses etc. while we can give you general advice on rules and how they work in practice, ultimately you are responsible for your characters actions. you should use good judgement and always ask the question " Does this make RP sense for my character to do?" Going by the number of posts you've put onto forums you are not a new player and thus, this should be something you are used to.

Focusing specifically on the tackle mechanic, we have given you the rundown. IC actions, IC consequences. its now up to you to decide what path your character takes, weather its a rule break, and how to deal with it.

Edited October 3, 2024 by Quietthecutie

[Spizor]

Quote

Deathmatching is the act of attacking a player without proper IC motive and/or interaction. Prior interaction should include escalation such as a robbery or a report to the police.

This includes tackling.

[padpilot]

2 hours ago, inorigj said:

They're basically saying. Asking around help in regards to RP and rules is a good thing. But don't blindly follow what they say. Unless they got a staff title such as Moderator or higher under their name.

ahh gotcha gotcha  

yeah 100% im just new back from 2019 and a bunch of stuff has changed. So far ive only seen this tackle used to bait responses. At least with fists, there is the opportunity to let the other person know you want to engage due to the position and stance when holding the RMB. 

Im curious what the arguments were to include this feature in the first place and the added benefits it brings to the server.

[padpilot]

also, consider, when tackled you character is locked into an animation, during which you cannt phone, cannot move, cannot respond at all... how coudl this impact the ability to RP fro those who use text only, vs those who sue mics?

Edited October 3, 2024 by padpilot

[padpilot]

2 hours ago, Quietthecutie said:

Every situation is different, Based on escalation, location, time of day, number of witnesses etc. while we can give you general advice on rules and how they work in practice, ultimately you are responsible for your characters actions. you should use good judgement and always ask the question " Does this make RP sense for my character to do?" Going by the number of posts you've put onto forums you are not a new player and thus, this should be something you are used to.

Focusing specifically on the tackle mechanic, we have given you the rundown. IC actions, IC consequences. its now up to you to decide what path your character takes, weather its a rule break, and how to deal with it.

Yeah i dunno how i came across as a noob but somehow I did, yeah not new just returning, from 2019.. server was very very different.

[inorigj]

2 hours ago, padpilot said:

Im curious what the arguments were to include this feature in the first place and the added benefits it brings to the server.

It's kind of like a Civilian Taser type thing.

with the "new" action timer. since you're form 2019 and that wasn't a thing back then.

the tackle can be used to interrupt actions, such as lockpicking and carrying. It can also be used to take out people aiming a gun at someone, like if you see your friend being held at gunpoint by a crim or a cop. you can try and sneak up and tackle them. freeing your friend from FearRP lock. allowing you to make more counter play using skill instead of just out gunning them.

 

YES, its mostly used to mess around. but the positive aspects of it outweigh the negatives if used correctly.

 

2 hours ago, padpilot said:

also, consider, when tackled you character is locked into an animation, during which you cannt phone, cannot move, cannot respond at all... how coudl this impact the ability to RP fro those who use text only, vs those who sue mics?

Your text chat still works while tackled, yes it interrupts animations. but pressing T and typing out a text isn't an animation, so you're free to type that out. unless something changed in that regard while I was on LOA

Edited October 3, 2024 by inorigj

[padpilot]

41 minutes ago, inorigj said:

It's kind of like a Civilian Taser type thing.

with the "new" action timer. since you're form 2019 and that wasn't a thing back then.

the tackle can be used to interrupt actions, such as lockpicking and carrying. It can also be used to take out people aiming a gun at someone, like if you see your friend being held at gunpoint by a crim or a cop. you can try and sneak up and tackle them. freeing your friend from FearRP lock. allowing you to make more counter play using skill instead of just out gunning them.

 

YES, its mostly used to mess around. but the positive aspects of it outweigh the negatives if used correctly.

 

Your text chat still works while tackled, yes it interrupts animations. but pressing T and typing out a text isn't an animation, so you're free to type that out. unless something changed in that regard while I was on LOA

Fair play mate. Doesnt sound too bad now that ive got a cleaner idea of how it ought to be used. For those where its just a totally random tackle sure ill report but i can see its use cases more now, appreciated.  

[Quietthecutie]

1 hour ago, padpilot said:

Fair play mate. Doesnt sound too bad now that ive got a cleaner idea of how it ought to be used. For those where its just a totally random tackle sure ill report but i can see its use cases more now, appreciated.  

you missed the glory days, back when tackling was introduced burgershot was basically the NFL. people flinging themselves at everyone lol. Its calmed down alot now but some people still clown with it. if they do, take appropriate action

[Bigdude601]

To Be fair, Bayview and roadcrew are basically the NFL now.

[Bala]

It would be more useful if it was designed for non-moving targets as well, like you are chasing someone on foot and if you hit the tackle, you could take them down or perhaps they shrug it off.

That's how we did it in SA:MP, if a person was x distance in front of you and you hit that finishing move, you got tackled. Then we added fitness levels to it, so those people in shape had a better chance of tackling those people not for example.

Right now, the person has to be stood basically still and you can just do it with constant success, over and over.

I wouldn't hold your breath on it being updated.

[Quietthecutie]

49 minutes ago, Bala said:

It would be more useful if it was designed for non-moving targets as well, like you are chasing someone on foot and if you hit the tackle, you could take them down or perhaps they shrug it off.

That's how we did it in SA:MP, if a person was x distance in front of you and you hit that finishing move, you got tackled. Then we added fitness levels to it, so those people in shape had a better chance of tackling those people not for example.

Right now, the person has to be stood basically still and you can just do it with constant success, over and over.

I wouldn't hold your breath on it being updated.

I agree that the tackle mechanic should have some way to resist...slimchance skill check like cuff resisting cus atm theres no real way to counterplay it besides "dont get tackled." which is not great for immersion. many a person can slip or overpower a tackle if they know its coming, which is where the skillcheck would come in.

Buuuut, all that is suggesting a change to the tackle mechanic, right now we are just educating how the mechanic currently works in practice and how its not bait.

[Bala]

33 minutes ago, Quietthecutie said:

I agree that the tackle mechanic should have some way to resist...slimchance skill check like cuff resisting cus atm theres no real way to counterplay it besides "dont get tackled." which is not great for immersion. many a person can slip or overpower a tackle if they know its coming, which is where the skillcheck would come in.

Buuuut, all that is suggesting a change to the tackle mechanic, right now we are just educating how the mechanic currently works in practice and how its not bait.

Just as long as it isnt that damn wheel mini-game lmao.