The allowance of "Auto-RP"

[Herbo]

So today I got arrested by PD from a situation, and I won't put a name but a PD Detective brought me to PD. He just brought me right through asking me what size jumpsuit, not patting me down or anything. We then get to the "foyer" and he comes up and puts in this command.

"/dolow Doc would come and take 153 inside, uncuff him and get him changed. Doc would make sure the susepcts phone is taken prior to starting his time"

He then uncuffs me and just /prisons me.

Now here's my suggestion, WHY IS THIS ALLOWED? I have a DOC character and I see COUNTLESS amounts of time people either wanting to RP Not changing, Wanting a phone call, or just not wanting to allow them to uncuff or anything. This RP is so sloppy and is just so people can be lazy and not do the actual RP. This is essentially powergaming as the rule of powergaming literally states

 

10. Powergaming (PG)

Powergaming is defined as inserting unrealistic actions into a character's actions that would otherwise not be possible in real life, providing non-factual statements in /do, or not allowing other players a chance to roleplay responses and their own actions to your roleplay. Some examples of powergaming: If you want to break a person's leg, you should not go up to the player and type /me breaks Player_Name's leg, and then expect them to roleplay a broken leg, that is forced roleplay and stops them from reacting to it.  Roleplaying superhuman strength or abilities, by performing unrealistic actions such as breaking cuffs with raw strength. Roleplaying camera footage from a camera that does not exist either as an object or through roleplay.  Players should also not type several character actions into a single /me when it's aimed at another player, as that stops the player from roleplaying a proper response. For example, you should not roleplay instantaneously withdrawing an object and then using the object to hold the player hostage, as their chances of reacting to the initial withdrawal are eliminated.  Players may use forceful commands such as /frisk, /cuff, /drag, /cpr, /stabilize after RP, or if the party is unresponsive for 30 seconds.  Punishment: Anything from a warning, an admin jail, to an indefinite ban.

 

Now the RP that was done lets go over exactly how it breaks the rules. First, "Roleplaying sever character actions into a single /me when it's aimed at another play, as that stops the player from roleplaying a proper respond" this RP has 4 different actions put into it that you can't roleplay against. Secondly "Players may use forceful commands such as /frisk, /cuff, /drag, /stabilize after RP, or if the part is unresponsible for 30 seconds" This RP is using 2 forceful commands /uncuff and /prison with no RP Response from myself. 

The fact that this type of RP is allowed is HORRENDOUS, this is the definition of lazy RP because you're not willing to go through and actually do the RP with the person. If any staff members want to see footage of this happening to me, I will gladly supply it to them in private discord DMs, my discord is .astromical

[Ash]

From my knowledge this was allowed by LFM (or senior/head admins, I am not 100% sure) if there are no DOC guards able to hand the inmate over to (after explicitly reaching out multiple times), as inmates wouldn't really be put into the cell by PD/SD.
I'm just saying this to make it clear this isn't an issue with a specific persons RP, but the discussion instead should be around this allowance in general. 

I'd say the nearest similar thing we already have in the server is you being yeeted out of an ambulance into the hospital with an automatic /do and then fully treated if you didn't go for advanced medical RP. I understand and respect the frustrations about previous RP of being noncompliant or taking advantage of an officer in the cell block not being available anymore, however.

It's also worth mentioning this has been a thing for quite a while now so the fact you've only just seen it I think is a good indicator of how actually rare of a scenario it is.

Maybe @Chunder or Legal Faction Management can clarify some more if there's anything I've missed. 

[SquirtleSquad]

45 minutes ago, Ash said:

From my knowledge this was allowed by LFM (or senior/head admins, I am not 100% sure) if there are no DOC guards able to hand the inmate over to (after explicitly reaching out multiple times), as inmates wouldn't really be put into the cell by PD/SD.
I'm just saying this to make it clear this isn't an issue with a specific persons RP, but the discussion instead should be around this allowance in general. 

Pretty much this. It's been brought to PD's attention from command that we can /prison from the Cell block processing room, as long as the appropriate /do is done. There are a number of reasons why this is, and I am not of command to say why this is, but going back several months is when this was permitted.  @Bala or @MrSilky might be able to provide more insight.

[Bala]

31 minutes ago, SquirtleSquad said:

Pretty much this. It's been brought to PD's attention from command that we can /prison from the Cell block processing room, as long as the appropriate /do is done. There are a number of reasons why this is, and I am not of command to say why this is, but going back several months is when this was permitted.  @Bala or @MrSilky might be able to provide more insight.

Not me G, I'm on LOA

[Herbo]

1 hour ago, SquirtleSquad said:

Pretty much this. It's been brought to PD's attention from command that we can /prison from the Cell block processing room, as long as the appropriate /do is done. There are a number of reasons why this is, and I am not of command to say why this is, but going back several months is when this was permitted.  @Bala or @MrSilky might be able to provide more insight.

I was /prison'd right in the middle of the foyer area.

2 hours ago, Ash said:

It's also worth mentioning this has been a thing for quite a while now so the fact you've only just seen it I think is a good indicator of how actually rare of a scenario it is.

TBF, I don't go to prison that often on any of my characters so it's not surprising I haven't seen it.

I just think that this simply shouldn't be allowed. I find it to be very poor and just lazy RP that you're gonna throw up a /do and auto prison someone just because 1 faction doesn't have members available to do something.  I also find the example of Pillbox to no-offense, but not be a very good example. From the point of you getting into the Ambulance, there's not much more RP that could happen as you've been treated already, all that RP is done. 

On the other hand, the RP that I'm speaking about here, is canceling multiple other bits of RP that can happen, changing, being uncuffed, making a phone call, etc. I just think this is very Poor RP and shouldn't be used at all, there's no reason as to why you can't spend 3 more minutes in DOC RPing with someone and uncuffing them, taking their phone if you wanna take it, and running /prison

[Ash]

Just to be clear, I'm not saying I disagree with the main point, was just bringing a little clarity to it from what I know as an Admin. The pillbox example was just a close example in which maybe the justification was similar to, not an excuse as to why it happens. 

[Cyrus Raven]

I think the main difference from the pillbox auto-RP is that it's sort of always been the expectation. MD, to my knowledge and I'm sure Ash can speak to this more than I can, has always been more focused on the EMS/EMT RP of getting to a call, treating players and transporting them and not necessarily hospital RP, although I do know there is surgery RP but this is usually something that is requested.

For PD and SD they've had specific SOPs created for self-processing if there is no DOC around. I'm assuming this is a relatively recent change since to my knowledge we only really used to /prison before RP and all if people had to leave for OOC reasons.

Having said this, I think it makes sense. PD/SD already have a ton of other stuff to do and if a specific shift happens to play when no DOC is around then they are essentially forced to take on the role of a DOC guard on top of whatever else they have to do, which isn't something they signed up for. Also, I would imagine most people would be happy with this as it can be seen as the same sort of boring RP you would find at impound where you're essentially being dragged a long through the motions as they take you in, pat you down, take mugshot, grab jumpsuit, etc...

On the other hand, OPs frustrations are understandable as he could have taken this boring interaction and decided to make use of it to attempt some sort of prison break or other type of RP and it can feel like PG for having that opportunity taken away by the use of ''Auto-RP'' (if that's what we're calling it now)

[Puzzling]

On 7/4/2023 at 2:00 AM, Cyrus Raven said:

I think the main difference from the pillbox auto-RP is that it's sort of always been the expectation. MD, to my knowledge and I'm sure Ash can speak to this more than I can, has always been more focused on the EMS/EMT RP of getting to a call, treating players and transporting them and not necessarily hospital RP, although I do know there is surgery RP but this is usually something that is requested.

MD has always been about the EMS RP and divisions to add more RP have been optional and people have to search for that sort of RP. The way the script works now is a basic EMS script and nothing more, stabilize to get them to the hospital then drop them off and go to the next call. The EMS script starts and ends at that. A vast majority of other servers you have EMS and you have your nurses and doctors that heal you at the hospital. The EMS take you and carry you to a bed then the Doctors and nurses come in and fully treat you and give you meds/surgery/etc. 

On 7/4/2023 at 2:00 AM, Cyrus Raven said:

Having said this, I think it makes sense. PD/SD already have a ton of other stuff to do and if a specific shift happens to play when no DOC is around then they are essentially forced to take on the role of a DOC guard on top of whatever else they have to do,

TBH the way we do our move to prison system by ALWAYS doing a prison transport is honestly more RP than a bunch of the other servers who just send you to prison for the cell of Mission Row. It gives RP ops to try to break your buddy out of prison before they get to it. I agree and don't think PD/SD should take on DOCs role and once your conversation is done with the jumpsuit and like "any more questions" then you are totally within the right to /prison them from the lobby/intake room.

Edited July 13, 2023 by Puzzling