Crim demands to DM & non-rp

[vGJake]

Most of the reports lately on the forums are usually to do with something that happened at a lab. If you watch some of these evidence videos it's laughable what goes on in the radios, for example: "I gave demands, we can now shoot at them". Proceeds to DM because they didn't get out their supercar when aimed at. 

This whole I gave demands bullshit so you can DM is ridiculous. The radio is being treated like a Discord server.

I personally think the whole demands a reason to DM people is dumb and needs to be reworked. I also think how radios are being used by criminals currently is silly as well.

My suggestion: Remove the whole demands thing, it's cringe. Realistically I can just go up to someone and say get out the car, they go no wtf... Ok dead. It's such a shit reason to go and DM someone and shoot their car up. I've seen people get chased through the city being shot at all because they didn't listen to their "Hands up, hands up" demand lol.

As for the radio talk, I don't know but I think admins should try crack down on the non-rp shit that goes on in them. Before you say well how? Just look at the videos on the reports of the radio chat. Chris' latest report shows that for example.

No, none of this happens to me, if I ever go to a lab I go solo and bring literally nothing with me but the amount of DM that goes down is crazy.

 

[TheCZJ]

+1, happened to me the other day. Got chased throughout the city getting shot at from their car, had 3 scouts on me all shooting my car up simply because they wanted to search my bag. They took 3 marijuana plants and went on their way. It was awful roleplay and unrealistic when you consider they had me on my knees on the highway in broad daylight.

It seems if somebody says "hands up and give me everything" you have to instantly obey and say yes rather than give away your hard work willingly or they'll just kill you because they "gave demands". I'm not saying to not show fear but if you're even remotely hesitant to give everything up straight away, you'll be shot. 

Why not beat it out of somebody? Punch someone in the face, RP hitting them with your gun, put a gun to their friends head and threaten to kill them, implement fear. Not just give demands then shoot. That to me is not roleplay, it's boring. It doesn't progress any kind of roleplay situation or offer anything fun and engaging. 

 

[Ash]

14 minutes ago, vGJake said:

Remove the whole demands thing

What whole demands thing? Demands alone do not equal DM rights on someone just because you shouted them. It's relevant in the FearRP rule as it states you have to comply when in direct danger but if someone is just yelling demands from far away it effectively means nothing.
 

8 minutes ago, TheCZJ said:

It seems if somebody says "hands up and give me everything" you have to instantly obey and say yes rather than give away your hard work willingly or they'll just kill you because they "gave demands". I'm not saying to not show fear but if you're even remotely hesitant to give everything up straight away, you'll be shot. 

Why not beat it out of somebody? Punch someone in the face, RP hitting them with your gun, put a gun to their friends head and threaten to kill them, implement fear. Not just give demands then shoot. That to me is not roleplay, it's boring. It doesn't progress any kind of roleplay situation or offer anything fun and engaging. 

Well, yes with FearRP if someone has a gun right to you and tells you to do something you should do it. But if you're generally compliant with the orders then you shouldn't be shot or it's DM (unless they have some other justifiable reason to kill you within the DM rule).
I do agree with that last bit though, making it a bit more interesting through RP should always be encouraged.

[risk]

Hello! While I am not going to comment on any specific scenarios given everything is situational and there is far more that goes into making a rule breach determination than just a few lines of text, I do want to clarify something. 

Demands alone do not equal deathmatching rights. They have not for as long as I have been in the community since early 2021 and quite possibly far longer than that. There is nothing to remove in that regard because that is already the case. There is an abundance of concluded reports that reiterate this in every way possible. 

You can read more about an elaboration/adjustment made to deathmatching rights here. If you are ever in a situation where you feel a rule break has occurred, every player is encouraged to report it utilizing the in game /report system or placing it on the forums. 

[TheCZJ]

1 minute ago, Ash said:

What whole demands thing? Demands alone do not equal DM rights on someone just because you shouted them. It's relevant in the FearRP rule as it states you have to comply when in direct danger but if someone is just yelling demands from far away it effectively means nothing.
 

Well, yes with FearRP if someone has a gun right to you and tells you to do something you should do it. But if you're generally compliant with the orders then you shouldn't be shot or it's DM (unless they have some other justifiable reason to kill you within the DM rule).
I do agree with that last bit though, making it a bit more interesting through RP should always be encouraged.

Of course under Fear RP I understand that but yeah it would just be nice for these situations to actually create some decent RP for everyone involved. 

[Glaikit]

-1

thats not how the rules work

and lord forbid someone is shot in a GTA server

[vGJake]

Just now, TheCZJ said:

Of course under Fear RP I understand that but yeah it would just be nice for these situations to actually create some decent RP for everyone involved. 

Impossible, too many egos and win mentality.

Radios being used like it's a discord server is crazy. 

[vGJake]

8 minutes ago, Ash said:

What whole demands thing? Demands alone do not equal DM rights on someone just because you shouted them. It's relevant in the FearRP rule as it states you have to comply when in direct danger but if someone is just yelling demands from far away it effectively means nothing.
 

Well, yes with FearRP if someone has a gun right to you and tells you to do something you should do it. But if you're generally compliant with the orders then you shouldn't be shot or it's DM (unless they have some other justifiable reason to kill you within the DM rule).
I do agree with that last bit though, making it a bit more interesting through RP should always be encouraged.

Ok that's fair enough. These past few months I've seen so many people get shot at because they didn't listen to a "hands up" demand. Obviously 9 times out of 10 the person being shot at are in a high powered vehicle so they are allowed to just drive off, hence why the other people shoots at them. I'm seeing this every day, so I'm just confused on this whole demands shit.

[BlueFlame]

when we were in GBK we never said ''Demands'' as it shows a poor RP for the faction and isn't much realistic, we were saying something else instead as an illegal faction. also it's ass that you enter a lab with literally nothing and then 20 people pulls on you for nothing saying ''get out get out, hends hends'' and then start shooting at your car and ramming it BECAUSE THEY GAVE DEMANDS I see it as a very poor RP as well as breaking DM rules, in a server like this. they shouldn't be able to shot at you or your car just because of 2 words for 3 plants. yesterday I went into braddocks with literally nothing in my kamacho and 1 people came to me and were saying ''don't even think about it'' while hes in front of my car with his gun pointed at me and then started shooting at me BECAUSE I DIDN'T COMPLY while I'm in a powered vehicle and can react in a situation like this. also going in front of a car while giving demands isn't realistic as they can just run you over while trying to escape you, but people bait it as a reason to shoot at your character, while giving demands. I was rammed by another kamacho in that situation as well as getting shots by his friends while he was ramming me which is putting their friend's life in direct danger while shooting at me. as well as spending around 50 .50 ammo for nothing.

I was in another situation were 3 people was in front of my Contender and one of them gave me demands and I drove off and ran one of them over on my way out and then I got shots at my head and tires BECAUSE I RAN HIM OVER.

there are so many rule breakings in the server especially in the public labs but we don't want anyone to be punished for getting nothing so.

[Alannn]

-1

[pasha9]

-1 what you been smoking my g

[Bala]

For me, I think the staff team collectively have made a real mess of what constitutes deathmatching and non-roleplay on this server for that matter, so we end up in these really ass backward situations where instead of going off of what feels natural and what makes sense, you have to make sure you fill out a checklist before you do something to someone and you can even catch a punishment for telling someone to attack someone now, which is absolutely wild to me.

I can't tell if we're trying to be as realistic as we can be as a server or we're about player appeasement but whatever the set-up is, you've created the "gear fear" and "play to win" mentalities by offering people an outlet to get their own back out of game if they lose in-game. You've enabled that behaviour.

If we just went off of common sense, then if you go into what would be considered a dangerous place, like a drug lab or a chop shop for example, all bets are off. If you are doing stuff there, you are doing dirt. If you are doing dirt, you're outside the law and if you outside the law, then anything that can happen will happen. Maybe that's the opposition coming and fucking you up for using a lab, maybe it's another criminal looking to steal your shit. YOU are making the decision to put yourself in a location where things can go south for you.

I don't know if you've ever watched a TV show or a movie or read a book about criminal enterprise but generally, if you start throwing insults and threats at a person, you get lit up. If you refuse to hand over your possessions, then end up badly injured or dead. Don't want to get robbed? Don't go to illegal places. Don't want to die? Don't talk shit to someone with a gun to your head, don't refuse to hand over your stuff if they tell you to. If that's the only way you can make money illegally, you are just going to have to risk it and be smart about it. There's no private apartment to hide behind anymore.

Why is it that we can do things like take NCZs away from Police Stations so people can now start robbing things from cop's personal vehicles parked at a police station but when it comes to shit like what is DM?, we're slapping people with punishments when they aren't even attacking people. Some of the attitudes towards violent interactions from people in position's of responsibility baffle me.

You would think we were playing The Sims, not Grand Theft Auto. Honestly as well, we're three years into this way of thinking and hand on heart, has the standard of roleplay actually improved any? Because from where I sit, we've gone sideways and ended up handing out a bunch more punishments as a result of it to go nowhere.

There's some proper good staff at Eclipse but the lack of consistency in the decision making across the board stifles the community as much as any late development update might.

Encouraging deathmatch is a no no, but if the DM rules take more of an over-minded view of what is and isn't a reason to fuck someone up, then at the very least there's more consequences for actions and less punishments that can be avoided.

 

Edited July 8, 2023 by Bala

[vGJake]

9 hours ago, Bala said:

For me, I think the staff team collectively have made a real mess of what constitutes deathmatching and non-roleplay on this server for that matter, so we end up in these really ass backward situations where instead of going off of what feels natural and what makes sense, you have to make sure you fill out a checklist before you do something to someone and you can even catch a punishment for telling someone to attack someone now, which is absolutely wild to me.

I can't tell if we're trying to be as realistic as we can be as a server or we're about player appeasement but whatever the set-up is, you've created the "gear fear" and "play to win" mentalities by offering people an outlet to get their own back out of game if they lose in-game. You've enabled that behaviour.

If we just went off of common sense, then if you go into what would be considered a dangerous place, like a drug lab or a chop shop for example, all bets are off. If you are doing stuff there, you are doing dirt. If you are doing dirt, you're outside the law and if you outside the law, then anything that can happen will happen. Maybe that's the opposition coming and fucking you up for using a lab, maybe it's another criminal looking to steal your shit. YOU are making the decision to put yourself in a location where things can go south for you.

I don't know if you've ever watched a TV show or a movie or read a book about criminal enterprise but generally, if you start throwing insults and threats at a person, you get lit up. If you refuse to hand over your possessions, then end up badly injured or dead. Don't want to get robbed? Don't go to illegal places. Don't want to die? Don't talk shit to someone with a gun to your head, don't refuse to hand over your stuff if they tell you to. If that's the only way you can make money illegally, you are just going to have to risk it and be smart about it. There's no private apartment to hide behind anymore.

Why is it that we can do things like take NCZs away from Police Stations so people can now start robbing things from cop's personal vehicles parked at a police station but when it comes to shit like what is DM?, we're slapping people with punishments when they aren't even attacking people. Some of the attitudes towards violent interactions from people in position's of responsibility baffle me.

You would think we were playing The Sims, not Grand Theft Auto. Honestly as well, we're three years into this way of thinking and hand on heart, has the standard of roleplay actually improved any? Because from where I sit, we've gone sideways and ended up handing out a bunch more punishments as a result of it to go nowhere.

There's some proper good staff at Eclipse but the lack of consistency in the decision making across the board stifles the community as much as any late development update might.

Encouraging deathmatch is a no no, but if the DM rules take more of an over-minded view of what is and isn't a reason to fuck someone up, then at the very least there's more consequences for actions and less punishments that can be avoided.

 

You've hit the nail on the head. I'm actually starting to understand it now from the people who "give demands". Thinking about it, they probably don't want to say "I've given demands" (really cringe to say IC), however they've got to otherwise the whole group/gang could end up in trouble by admins.

I do think the DM rules need a massive overhaul because these forum reports are getting out of hand. Every single DM that happens in game ends in "SAVE POV lol".

 

[Bala]

Yeah, it’s literally playing to the rules. Doing something in a very specific way because any other method leads to catching punishments. But, then you see complaints about how people are play to win and all the interactions are the same. 

If the goal is to create a better roleplay standard in the server, then we’ve failed.

If the goal is create a more enjoyable environment in the server for illegal role players, then we’ve failed. 

I’m not dumb, I know this is going to fall on deaf ears but it needs saying because we’ve created this environment of soft, sweaty rule-players. They ain’t reporting if they win a situation, even if rules have been broken, why you think that is? 
I really hope the end goal here is a better standard of dynamic roleplay in the server because if it’s anything else, we are wasting our time but we ain’t ever gunna get there like this. 
If people are actually faced with real consequences that are backed up by common sense, they’ll be less likely to do the dumb shit.

[Herbo]

On 7/8/2023 at 10:15 AM, Bala said:

I’m not dumb, I know this is going to fall on deaf ears but it needs saying because we’ve created this environment of soft, sweaty rule-players. They ain’t reporting if they win a situation, even if rules have been broken, why you think that is? 

Because nobody wants to be the person to be known to report every single rulebreak that might happen to them. There is no reason to report if the rulebreak did not genuinely effect your roleplay. Unless it's a major rulebreak such as DSO, Ban Evading, or Cheating. You're not required to report it and have the freedom to make your own decision on it.

[Glaikit]

On 7/10/2023 at 5:35 PM, Herbo said:

Because nobody wants to be the person to be known to report every single rulebreak that might happen to them. There is no reason to report if the rulebreak did not genuinely effect your roleplay. Unless it's a major rulebreak such as DSO, Ban Evading, or Cheating. You're not required to report it and have the freedom to make your own decision on it.

Said by a Royal... Notorious for reporting every single time they lose!

[Donovan]

On 7/8/2023 at 4:15 PM, Bala said:

Yeah, it’s literally playing to the rules. Doing something in a very specific way because any other method leads to catching punishments. But, then you see complaints about how people are play to win and all the interactions are the same. 

If the goal is to create a better roleplay standard in the server, then we’ve failed.

If the goal is create a more enjoyable environment in the server for illegal role players, then we’ve failed. 

I’m not dumb, I know this is going to fall on deaf ears but it needs saying because we’ve created this environment of soft, sweaty rule-players. They ain’t reporting if they win a situation, even if rules have been broken, why you think that is? 
I really hope the end goal here is a better standard of dynamic roleplay in the server because if it’s anything else, we are wasting our time but we ain’t ever gunna get there like this. 
If people are actually faced with real consequences that are backed up by common sense, they’ll be less likely to do the dumb shit.

Again a topic in which I agree with Bala, not sure whether it's due to the amount of time we've both spent here, or our similar mindset when it comes to RP, but ruleplaying has been a thing ever since the dm/robbery rules got changed ( I cannot remember when that exactly was ) imo, and all of these restrictions and specifications that need to happen to allow you to do X or Y is what's causing all of it IMO. 

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The way I see it, deathmatching should be treated the exact same way insults used to be ( I've heard since I am back that those are now regulated as well even though they are purely IC and anyone that takes offense to them outside of their character, are basically mixing but that's another topic ).

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Rules shouldn't dictate situations, IC actions should. If you deserve to be shot, you get shot, if you deserve to be beaten, you get beaten. It's very simple how our minds are able to determine what scenario requires a use of a firearm and what gets resolved with fists or verbal communication IRL, but somehow everyone is trying to tell me that here we cant? 
Cmon.. IC is IC, sure outliers such as ppl shooting up a bank, or pier ( as it used to be a case ) or people vdming cuz they are bored should be deal with on the spot, no reports needed. 
But if people had more freedom to react the way they believe is right, it would reduce the amounts of reports ( Imo ), which would reduce the amount of rule playing as you wouldn't be as scared of being reported after every thing you do. 

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Most people probably wouldn't remember, but for sure Balla and the people that used to play then would, but there was a shooting at DOC, me and Gamble were being arrested, huge amount of pd/sd/doc/md were involved from legal side, Irish, Zetas, Clowns ( maybe Triads ? cannot remember if they were around at the time ), it resulted in a shootout involving 150+ people, I do not recall a single report coming from that scenario, it lasted for idk 20-30 minutes, 50-60 vehicles all over DOC Parking lot etc. and yet somehow nobody felt " hurt " oocly enough to make a report, because it was good shit, everyone had fun and everyone was involved in something that made sense ICly and RPly. 

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TLDR:  The more restrictions are added to each rule, the more ruleplaying will be done, and every scenario will feel fake and scripted because it ends up being a tick the box exercise instead of an organic interaction between humans. 

PS: This doesn't mean that rules shouldn't be enforced or a thing, but that scenarios should be looked at dynamically in regards to the circumstantial evidence of each one individually and basing the judgement call whether it was realistic reasoning to do X or Y from situation to situation, instead of trying to fit every single scenario into a single mold where you have to tick certain box in order to allow actions to happen. The exact same situation between 2 random people or 2 gang members from opposite gangs which are currently hostile towards each other due to a certain reason will not share the same mindset of actions in the situation, while 2 people that have never met each other would perhaps take things more cautiously and try and play it as safe as possible, gangs in war will not care for stuff such as whether anyone would see or if they will go to prison, or if they might die at the end of it. 

Edited August 22, 2023 by Donovan

[Requiem]

I think the frustrations are misguided here. Everyone seems to have this thought process that the server rules are the issue here, and yeah, the server rules might not be perfect because they have to be designed in a way to be somewhat generic as each situation is case by case. I personally think part of the issue is the player culture. Yes, there are a lot of reports of DM at public labs. Why? Its not because of the DM rules and how they are applied. Its because too many players seem to have this mentality of robbing every other person they aren't associated with for some free stuff rather than actually providing some quality RP interactions. If some solo comes into a lab to pick plants or cook, why is it a requirement to run over with guns blazing saying "hands, hands!!" Maybe just play it out different and make some kind of deal with them, such as taxing them to cook there. Or maybe if you don't want them there, do some RP to scare them off that doesn't require you shooting or robbing them. Yes its GTA and yes there will be shooting, which is fine. But not every single situation needs to be that. The DM rules are simply there to prevent people from shooting on sight or killing for no good reason...to actually encourage RP and good interactions. There wouldn't be any issue if people would actually just interact instead of just giving demands and shooting every time someone comes into a public lab. 

Edited August 22, 2023 by Requiem

[Herbo]

I shall bring fourth a suggestion that would fix this issue.

Labs = KOS Zones 

Need I say more, if you’re allowed to shoot anyone in labs there will be no more DM Reports. 

The problem has been solved plz implement admins